Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would just like to speak to the issue of regional funding transfers on the question that was raised by myself and my colleague, Mr. Roland. I would like some further clarification. I made reference to this as a carefully crafted letter. The Minister has said that it is not carefully crafted, but I assume every one of his letters is carefully crafted.

What I was told was that as part of ongoing management we determine the demand for departmental resources exceeded the departmental budgets, the departmental expenditure management plan was initiated to focus on only the most critical areas. My concern was that $160,000 was taken out of the regional budget for the South Slave, out of program dollars and such, which limited the ability of the people to do their jobs. There was $125,000 in the North Slave, $65,000 in the Deh Cho, $25,000 in the Sahtu and $140,000 in Inuvik.

I was wondering if the Minister could just clarify that for me. He says that no funds were physically transferred from the regions to headquarters, which I can appreciate, I did not think there would be bags of loonies moving back and forth, but the money is in headquarters. Headquarters giveth and headquarters can taketh away. I was wondering if the Minister could just clarify this particular issue. It is not clear to me. I have questions when I see the way it is worded. Thank you.

Mr. Minister, Mr. Handley.

Mr. Chairman, in the letter I indicated four categories of increased costs: computer chargebacks, PeopleSoft, employee liabilities and dental premiums.

What the department did, they had all of the costs allocated to headquarters, but then asked each of the regions to pay their share of the increased costs in those areas. On computer chargebacks, the North Slave region, South Slave, and so on, were each asked to come up with their share of the increase. The same with PeopleSoft, and so on.

Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you. So what does it mean when you state that the amount for departmental resources exceeded the departmental budgets and, therefore, a management plan was initiated to focus only on the most critical areas. These four areas you outlined, computer chargebacks, PeopleSoft, employee liabilities and dental premiums, seem like standard run-of-the-mill issues that we would budget for as an ongoing matter of practice.

Is this event one that happened just this year, or does it happen every year, when all of a sudden money is taken back from the regions according to their budgets? Thank you.

Mr. Minister, Mr. Handley.

Mr. Chairman, each of these was a new item that was not taken into consideration. We did not have the information when we did the business plan. The costs had to be covered somewhere. In future years, and the next fiscal year, we include these costs into the salaries and benefits, rather than having to find the money after.

As I mentioned in my opening comments, RWED has been very squeezed given the demands on our money by our various mandates, so we did not have the money out of headquarters to pay for it all on behalf of the regions, so we had to ask each of the regions to identify their share. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Miltenberger.

I am not clear. You are telling me that computer chargebacks, PeopleSoft, employee liabilities and dental premiums are new items or that there was unanticipated cost in those areas, which I would have assumed have been on the books for quite some time. Thank you.

Mr. Minister.

Mr. Chairman, if I take one example, on computer chargebacks, in the middle of the year we were asked to pay for Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development's share of computer chargebacks, $397,000. This is something we had not budgeted for. So we had to find the money from within Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development The most reasonable way of doing it was to have headquarters pay its share and each of the regions pay their share. The same happened with PeopleSoft, employee liabilities and dental premiums. In future years, these are all added into the salaries and benefits. So we should not have this happening, unless again we get a surprise in the middle of the year.

Mr. Miltenberger.

Mr. Chairman, why have these dental premiums and employee liabilities, for example, not been in employee benefits before? I am assuming that PeopleSoft and computer chargebacks are separate from the pay and benefits, but you were saying this is new and it has happened because it is a one-time thing. Where was this before? Where were dental premiums before and where were employee liabilities before? That is one concern.

The other concern I would just like the Minister to confirm. Were there program dollars taken out of the regions to cover this or was it taken out of the administrative part of the budgets in the regions so that program dollars were not negatively impacted? Thank you.

Mr. Minister.

On these four items, these are all expenses the department faced after the beginning of the year, whether it is computer chargebacks, employee liabilities, dental premiums or the PeopleSoft program that was introduced in the middle of the year, so we had to find it from within. The department does not tell the regional superintendent where to find the money, whether to find it out of their corporate services or to take it out of programs. Those are decisions they have to make at the regional level. I should also point out, Mr. Chairman, the department expenditure management plan is bigger than just these four. There are a lot of other things that happen as we go through a year, especially one like this where we have a lot of pressures on the department.

Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Could I just ask the Minister then, this money as you indicated was for these four major areas and not to cover some over commitments made at the headquarters level and the regions have to pay for it because the headquarters budget was expended early? Thank you.

Mr. Minister.

No, Mr. Chairman, that is not the case. The Member's assumption there is correct. If it had been a year where we had not spent all our money in headquarters, we might have been able to help the regions out, but this year we had to ask them to pay their own share. Thanks.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Bell. Operations expense, total operations expense, $12,543,000.

Corporate management, grants and contributions, contributions, total contributions, $78,000. Agreed?