Thank you, Mr. Minister. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.
Debates of Oct. 17th, 2002
This is page numbers 981 - 1018 of the Hansard for the 14th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was power.
Topics
Further Return To Question 334-14(5): Northwest Territories Power Corporation Single Rate Zone Application
Question 334-14(5): Northwest Territories Power Corporation Single Rate Zone Application
Item 7: Oral Questions
Page 994
The Speaker
Supplementary To Question 334-14(5): Northwest Territories Power Corporation Single Rate Zone Application
Question 334-14(5): Northwest Territories Power Corporation Single Rate Zone Application
Item 7: Oral Questions
Page 994

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, obviously the chairman did think he had the support of the Minister. Mr. Stewart is quoted in the media just in the last couple of days as saying "Minister Handley was, as I said, on board. He had never given us any indication that he was not supporting the corporation in filing for a one-rate zone." Those are the words of the chairman of the board.
Now, I do not want to contradict Mr. Handley here, but Mr. Handley said that the single-rate zone was under development and being put forward by the Power Corporation board in spite of this obviously what sounds like a confusing direction from Cabinet.
However, Mr. Speaker, in June, the same meeting where Mr. Handley said he could never get this by Cabinet or by the Members of the House, the president of the Power Corporation shared with the Members that they were proceeding to the GRA phase two, and clearly stated they were doing it on community-based rate zone. Now, why was the Power Corporation working on a single-rate zone for a whole year and then come and tell the Members in June that they were proceeding to phase two on a community-based rate zone and the Minister says that...Mr. Speaker, the Minister says that in fact, they were planning all along to go with a single-rate zone. Mr. Speaker, it cannot be both ways. Which is it? Thank you.
Supplementary To Question 334-14(5): Northwest Territories Power Corporation Single Rate Zone Application
Question 334-14(5): Northwest Territories Power Corporation Single Rate Zone Application
Item 7: Oral Questions
Page 994
The Speaker
Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The honourable Minister responsible for the NWT Power Corporation, Mr. Handley.
Further Return To Question 334-14(5): Northwest Territories Power Corporation Single Rate Zone Application
Question 334-14(5): Northwest Territories Power Corporation Single Rate Zone Application
Item 7: Oral Questions
Page 995

Joe Handley Weledeh
Mr. Speaker, I cannot speak for the chairman of the Power Corporation board, but as I said, under direction from Cabinet, we were working and trying to come up with a formula that would work since October, 2001. In June, or sometime there, we concluded that this did not seem to be working. It did not seem saleable for us to take it forward, along with the other recommendations in the Robertson report.
At that point, we ceased our work in terms of the recommendations in the Robertson report, including the one-rate zone.
Now, in doing that, I do not know whether Mr. Stewart, the chairman of the board, had really made his decision. He may have, I do not know, in June, of whether to go with community-based zones or a single-rate zone. He had to collect all of the information anyway, and very well may not have, in his own mind, really made a decision.
I know the Power Corporation board met in August for their strategic planning session. I believe, and I would have to confirm it, but I believe that meeting some time in August was when they decided which direction they were going to go. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 334-14(5): Northwest Territories Power Corporation Single Rate Zone Application
Question 334-14(5): Northwest Territories Power Corporation Single Rate Zone Application
Item 7: Oral Questions
Page 995
The Speaker
Thank you, Mr. Minister. Final supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.
Supplementary To Question 334-14(5): Northwest Territories Power Corporation Single Rate Zone Application
Question 334-14(5): Northwest Territories Power Corporation Single Rate Zone Application
Item 7: Oral Questions
Page 995

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the answers the Minister is providing are not really giving any clarity to me. Earlier today, Mr. Braden said that this whole thing is a very unfortunate situation, and it is, and that it was unavoidable, and it was. Would the Minister responsible be prepared to accept any of the responsibility for this confusion, given the fact that the Power Corporation was proceeding for a single-rate zone? They thought they had government support, and the Minister was out there in meetings with MLAs, in the print media, on the radio, every time he had a chance, extolling the merits of a single-rate zone. Could this have possibly contributed to the confusion that was being experienced by the Power Corporation? There is documented evidence of that being the case.
The question is, would the Minister take some of the responsibility for this very unfortunate situation that has been created? Thank you.
Supplementary To Question 334-14(5): Northwest Territories Power Corporation Single Rate Zone Application
Question 334-14(5): Northwest Territories Power Corporation Single Rate Zone Application
Item 7: Oral Questions
Page 995
The Speaker
Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The honourable Minister responsible for the NWT Power Corporation, Mr. Handley.
Further Return To Question 334-14(5): Northwest Territories Power Corporation Single Rate Zone Application
Question 334-14(5): Northwest Territories Power Corporation Single Rate Zone Application
Item 7: Oral Questions
Page 995

Joe Handley Weledeh
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Hindsight is always great. Certainly, you know, if I had realized that there was that lack of clarity, then I would have probably said to Mr. Stewart, here is what the record of decision says, here is what it means, let's talk about what your role is as a board, what my role is as a Minister, what the Public Utilities Board process is, the extent to which you should be adhering to specific direction of Cabinet. I could have done things a lot differently. That is in hindsight.
At the time, though, I do not think my personal views got in the way at all. I have to say that I believe that we as citizens and as residents of the Northwest Territories are all equal owners of the Power Corporation. I believe that we should all have equal benefit from it and equal risk in its doings. That is my position. I have no other position on this issue. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 334-14(5): Northwest Territories Power Corporation Single Rate Zone Application
Question 334-14(5): Northwest Territories Power Corporation Single Rate Zone Application
Item 7: Oral Questions
Page 995
The Speaker
Thank you, Mr. Minister. Item 7, oral questions. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.
Question 335-14(5): Cabinet Direction To The Power Corporation
Item 7: Oral Questions
Page 995

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Mr. Speaker, the concern I have is the quickness of Cabinet to interfere in a board process, and overseeing the Power Corporation of the Northwest Territories.
Mr. Speaker, there are three circumstances where Cabinet has directives. One was dealing with the Hay River franchise issue, which we heard a lot about. That was where the Robertson report idea came from. The second was regarding the idea of trying to look at saving dollars for the people of the Northwest Territories who are the shareholders of this corporation by consideration of layoffs in the corporation to save us a million dollars. There again, Cabinet intervened. The third time is dealing with the issue that is at hand today, regarding the application that was put forth in regard to the one-rate zone.
Mr. Speaker, in those three incidents, Cabinet directives were given. I would like to ask Mr. Handley, as the Minister responsible for the Power Corporation, were those directives given to you as the Minister to carry them out, and how did you carry that out?
Question 335-14(5): Cabinet Direction To The Power Corporation
Item 7: Oral Questions
Page 995
The Speaker
Thank you, Mr. Krutko. The honourable Minister responsible for the NWT Power Corporation, Mr. Handley.
Return To Question 335-14(5): Cabinet Direction To The Power Corporation
Question 335-14(5): Cabinet Direction To The Power Corporation
Item 7: Oral Questions
Page 995

Joe Handley Weledeh
Mr. Speaker, I cannot speak to the previous times when Cabinet gave the Power Corporation very specific directives, whether that is in regard to an application they filed, another one with regard to not laying off staff. That was before I was responsible.
With regard to this particular case, as I said, we had a Cabinet meeting on October 3rd. We reviewed this. We debated what the direction was. On October 8th, the Premier, as Chair of Cabinet, told me that this was his interpretation after reviewing it with staff and with legal advice, and that I should direct the Power Corporation to withdraw their application. Following that, we had a Cabinet meeting and there was further direction provided to the Power Corporation on October 11th. Thank you.
Return To Question 335-14(5): Cabinet Direction To The Power Corporation
Question 335-14(5): Cabinet Direction To The Power Corporation
Item 7: Oral Questions
Page 995
The Speaker
Thank you, Mr. Minister. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko.
Supplementary To Question 335-14(5): Cabinet Direction To The Power Corporation
Question 335-14(5): Cabinet Direction To The Power Corporation
Item 7: Oral Questions
Page 996

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Minister stated that he had a verbal direction from the Premier to pass on the directive. Was the directive ever put in writing or was it just a verbal direction that was given to yourself from the Premier?
Supplementary To Question 335-14(5): Cabinet Direction To The Power Corporation
Question 335-14(5): Cabinet Direction To The Power Corporation
Item 7: Oral Questions
Page 996
The Speaker
Thank you, Mr. Krutko. The honourable Minister responsible for the NWT Power Corporation, Mr. Handley.
Further Return To Question 335-14(5): Cabinet Direction To The Power Corporation
Question 335-14(5): Cabinet Direction To The Power Corporation
Item 7: Oral Questions
Page 996

Joe Handley Weledeh
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It was a verbal discussion and then I received a note from the Premier to that effect. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 335-14(5): Cabinet Direction To The Power Corporation
Question 335-14(5): Cabinet Direction To The Power Corporation
Item 7: Oral Questions
Page 996
The Speaker
Thank you, Mr. Minister. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko.
Supplementary To Question 335-14(5): Cabinet Direction To The Power Corporation
Question 335-14(5): Cabinet Direction To The Power Corporation
Item 7: Oral Questions
Page 996

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister if there is a possibility of accessing the note that you received from the Premier which clearly spells out exactly the direction you were supposed to follow?
Supplementary To Question 335-14(5): Cabinet Direction To The Power Corporation
Question 335-14(5): Cabinet Direction To The Power Corporation
Item 7: Oral Questions
Page 996
The Speaker
Thank you, Mr. Krutko. The honourable Minister responsible for the NWT Power Corporation, Mr. Handley.
Further Return To Question 335-14(5): Cabinet Direction To The Power Corporation
Question 335-14(5): Cabinet Direction To The Power Corporation
Item 7: Oral Questions
Page 996

Joe Handley Weledeh
Mr. Speaker, since the letter is from the Premier to me, I would like to refer the question to him. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 335-14(5): Cabinet Direction To The Power Corporation
Question 335-14(5): Cabinet Direction To The Power Corporation
Item 7: Oral Questions
Page 996
The Speaker
Sorry, the rules do not allow the Minister to pass it back to the Premier. The Premier can pass it down. You have the responsibility to either answer the question, take it as notice or not answer the question. Which are you choosing?
Further Return To Question 335-14(5): Cabinet Direction To The Power Corporation
Question 335-14(5): Cabinet Direction To The Power Corporation
Item 7: Oral Questions
Page 996
Further Return To Question 335-14(5): Cabinet Direction To The Power Corporation
Question 335-14(5): Cabinet Direction To The Power Corporation
Item 7: Oral Questions
Page 996
The Speaker
The question has been taken as notice. Item 7, oral questions. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, Mr. Nitah.
Question 336-14(5): Tlicho Land Claim Agreement-in-principle
Item 7: Oral Questions
Page 996
Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe
Mahsi cho, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Premier. Mr. Speaker, as we all know, there is a dispute between the Akaitcho and the Tlicho over ownership of land. We all know that the Akaitcho ascertained that there have been agreements between the Akaitcho and the Tlicho with a clear boundary that has been understood -- we know it as Boundary Creek. We all know that the Dogribs use lands east of here as traditional hunting grounds. We have seen a newspaper article last week that attests to that with the assistant director general who was there at Indian Hill Lake, where there were caribou carcasses and garbage left.
If that is going to be an example of future management, then we have to ask that question. The reason I demonstrate that is because there is clearly a relationship between the federal government and the Dogribs that the Akaitcho is concerned about. As a government, we have to demonstrate that we are impartial and that we represent the best interests of the Northwest Territories.
I ask the Premier when he was in Wha Ti, did he witness the initialling of the federal negotiator as the Premier of the Northwest Territories representing the people of the Northwest Territories, or as Stephen Kakfwi, an individual? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Question 336-14(5): Tlicho Land Claim Agreement-in-principle
Item 7: Oral Questions
Page 996
The Speaker
Thank you, Mr. Nitah. The honourable Premier, Mr. Kakfwi.