This is page numbers 597 - 648 of the Hansard for the 14th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Topics

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Mr. Nitah.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I do not think industry or any business is in the habit of giving $1 million to an aboriginal organization as a gift. I am sure there is something deeper than that here, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Chairman, I just wanted to ask the Minister, has he looked into the history of these agreements? In asking him questions and his answers in question period and committees, he does not seem to have a good understanding of the history of these agreements.

What kind of knowledge does he have of these agreements to make these policy decisions based on legal opinions on documents that have not even been seen by the department or their lawyers? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 631

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Nitah. Mr. Ootes.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We have had two legal opinions on this and summaries have been provided to the Members, Mr. Chairman. I am following the opinions that have been provided, Mr. Chairman. We are following the regulations for income support as laid down according to the findings of these legal opinions. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 631

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Mr. Nitah.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe

I have seen those legal opinions, or one of the legal opinions, and it is very weak at best. I think what we have here is a lack of political will by the Minister to deal with this issue. Unfortunately, the chiefs and councils and aboriginal leaders may have to get involved at this level. I was hoping we could avoid that and deal with it.

I would like to ask the Minister, how often, in his knowledge, does the federal Minister of Indian and Northern Affairs get involved in deals that are made that are considered a private agreement between industry and private individuals or organizations, as the Minister had put it in answering my questions and the questions in the House? To his knowledge, how often does the Minister of Indian and Northern Affairs from the federal government get involved with private deals at this level? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Nitah. Mr. Ootes.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have no answer for that. I do not know what the federal Minister does on a national basis or on a territorial basis. I should point out here, Mr. Chairman, that the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs in our government took a question form the honourable Member, and the Minister said he would look into this situation as well. Aboriginal Affairs will look into this situation and I think that is perhaps an appropriate way to deal with this. As I say, I am not trying to be obstinate here and I am not trying to be difficult. It is just that we have no access to this information, so we have to go on the basis of what we do know. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Mr. Nitah.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, if you put everything into context here, I do not understand how the Minister can say, "We have no indication." We know the fact that these agreements are with First Nations on behalf of their members, and it is usually a First Nation in close proximity to a development site, so there is a strong indication right there in itself.

We also know the history of how IBAs became a reality in the Territories. It was the federal Minister of Indian and Northern Affairs who strongly indicated to industry, to First Nations and to this government that IBAs should be negotiated with a deadline of 30 days. If there is more indication short of seeing these agreements, I do not know what it is.

I would like to ask again, how could the Minister miss the indications that these are based on treaties and/or aboriginal rights? It deals with the issue of ownership of land and ownership of resources. If that is the case, then under the policy of income support where it deals with treaties they do not touch that. That is outside the realm of this government to deal with that. I think the recent court case, the Benoit case, reaffirms that position taken by First Nations and reaffirms the position taken by the Akaitcho to begin with, that this is a peace and friendship treaty where we never extinguished our rights to our lands and resources. What more does he need, Mr. Chairman? Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 631

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Nitah. Mr. Ootes.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just want to reiterate that the question was asked of the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs to look into this situation, and I am sure he will have his officials do that. As well, my officials have been talking to some of the officials in the Dogrib region to see if alternatives can be worked out and how we can proceed on this. It is not as though we are turning a completely blind eye to the whole situation, Mr. Chairman, but I do have to respect the intent of the policy and the regulations that are in place. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Page 9-11, advanced education and careers. Mr. Dent.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just for consistency sake, I would like to ask if I could get the Minister to detail what is included in the $26.2 million in other expenses here.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 12th, 2002

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. Ootes.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would be glad to provide that and again, we can provide a copy to the Member or Members. I will give the breakdown if the Member would like for the record: • Colleges, minor capital, $235,000; miscellaneous, which is travel, materials, supplies and purchased services of $48,000; adult basic education and literacy, curriculum exam development, $31,000; miscellaneous travel, materials and supplies of $17,000; and the GNWT literacy strategy, $400,000; •

Under apprenticeship, apprenticeship training, which is on-the-job subsidy contracts, upgrading programs, exam development, $1,081,000; evaluation and tuition promotion, $453,000; occupational training and development, $379,000; diamond training subsidy, $122,000; and miscellaneous travel, materials and supplies of $42,000; •

Under career employment development, training-on-the-job subsidy contracts, $611,000; oil and gas training-on-the job subsidy contracts, $450,000; youth at work, $1 million; career centres, $117,000; curriculum development and career counselling training, $161,000; labour market development contracts, $41,000; and miscellaneous travel, materials, etc. $69,000;•

Under public service career training, trainee courses, $62,000; and miscellaneous travel, materials and supplies, $20,000;•

Income assistance, systems support, $430,000; income assistance benefits, $14 million; seniors supplementary benefit, $1,953,000; wood and fuel subsidy, $422,000; day care user subsidy, $1,042,000; and miscellaneous, $114,000;•

Under student financial assistance, remission and write-offs to loan recipients, $2,761,000; systems support, $800,000; and miscellaneous, $99,000; and•

Under regional management, miscellaneous, which is travel, materials, et cetera, $107,000.

For a total of $26,285,000. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Dent.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am going to ask this question regularly as we come to other expenses and really, this information has been provided to committee, but my point is that with one category here of $26 million, we have no breakdown in these budget books. I think it is important the public understands where the expenditures are.

I would point out that the $26 million is a larger expenditure than what you find in some other parts of this book for a whole department. I think it is essential that we find a way to start including some of this information in the budget books for future reference. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Dent. The Minister did commit to supplying that breakdown. Mr. Ootes.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Yes, Mr. Chairman, I will provide a copy to the Members. With regard to Mr. Dent's request and comment, I will ensure that the Minister of Finance is advised of that comment and request. I will have to leave it to the Minister of the Financial Management Board to consider that, Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 632

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Page 9-11, advanced education and careers, operations expense, total operations expense, $69,363,000.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Page 9-13, advanced education and careers, grants and contributions, grants, $8,356,000. Mr. Nitah.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, this afternoon I was fortunate enough to be invited to give a talk at a conference sponsored and organized by the committee on mobilization on small communities and their involvement in this unprecedented time of economic boom. There is a lot of optimism there but there are a lot of concerns.

From personal experience dealing with my constituents on a number of issues regarding this, Mr. Chairman, the problem in the Territories is not so much getting a job but it is keeping a job. We could train and we could have all kinds of apprenticeships going but if the people's self-esteem is low, and their life skills are such that they do not conform with the requirements of the work environment and the lifestyles of what they do outside of work all contribute to what we are seeing in some of the regions. Especially in my constituency, there are a lot of people quitting their jobs or getting fired or not qualifying because of job restrictions and policies of the companies.

What is the department doing under their responsibility of training people to address the fact that there is a certain amount of low self-esteem at the community level, which is contributing directly to the lack of participation in this booming economy? In other words, we are spending a great deal of money training people, but if those we train are not mentally ready to work, what are we doing to address that area of concern? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 632

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Nitah. Mr. Ootes.