The Chair will call a short break and come back to the Department of Justice.

-- Break

I will call the committee of the whole back to order. We are here with the Department of Justice's main estimates. Mr. Allen, do you have any opening remarks?

Yes, I do, Mr. Chairman, if I may begin. I am pleased to introduce the main estimates for the Department of Justice. The Department of Justice has the mandate to administer justice and maintain safe and secure communities in the Northwest Territories. These are issues we are all very concerned about.

The proposed budget for 2002-2003 supports our mandate and reflects the government's priorities, including our Social Agenda and the creation of a healthy society for all Northerners.

The proposed operational budget for the department for the 2002-2003 year is $69,584,000. The capital acquisition budget is $18,846,000. The estimated revenues are $9.8 million annually.

I would like to highlight for the Members the major changes proposed in the budget from the fiscal year 2001-2002. As well, I would like to mention work that we have begun in a number of priority areas that are not reflected in this budget.

For a number of years, the department has supported community efforts to develop and implement alternative solutions to justice issues. The department plans to build on this support by adding $91,000 to assist the RCMP to dedicate one officer in the full-time restorative justice position. This position will work with the department and the communities to support efforts in this area.

We also plan to increase funding provided to communities for additional community justice activities, including support for victims of crime. Beginning in 2002-2003, funding for community justice will increase by $302,000.

In response to Members' concerns, and as a result of the department's review, steps are being taken to improve the Wilderness Camp Program. In 2002-2003, a wilderness camp program coordinator position will be introduced and additional support will be provided to the camp operators. These changes will result in increased funding for this program of $278,000.

The Community Constable Program will be improved to provide meaningful policing support in our smaller communities. Additional resources are especially critical in communities where specific concerns have been identified. Starting in 2002-2003, an additional $107,000 will be invested in this program. This ongoing funding will help to stabilize our financial support for this program. The Department of Justice also began discussions with officials from Municipal and Community Affairs and the RCMP on other ways to improve this program. We also plan to meet with representatives from our communities to present our ideas on improving the program to get their suggestions and feedback.

In the area of policing, the department has also begun to work to develop a plan to deal with many other policing issues facing us.

There are other changes from last year's budget. In 2002-2003, the department will be preparing for changes that will come about as a result of the new Youth Criminal Justice Act. Increased funding of $738,000 has been budgeted for this purpose. This increase will be offset by funding from the federal government and is reflected in the department's revenues.

Federal funding will also offset an increase of $223,000 for legal aid. Funding from the Access to Justice Agreement was provided to all jurisdictions in recognition of rising costs for the delivery of legal aid. In the Northwest Territories, this funding supports a 15 percent increase in the legal aid tariff.

Forced growth also accounts for an increase in our spending. In 2002-2003, an additional $425,000 is required. This covers increases in air travel, increases in fuel costs for facilities and the RCMP, and to pay for NWT participation in aboriginal land claim negotiations with Saskatchewan and Manitoba.

In 2002-2003, continued capital investment in the new correctional facilities will account for expenditures of just over $18 million. This investment will see the completion of the young offender facility in Inuvik this spring and the young offender facility in Yellowknife in the fall of 2002. The additional correctional facility in Yellowknife is scheduled to open in the fall of 2003.

Capital improvements at other facilities and the upgrading of our information technology capacity make up the balance of the proposed capital acquisition plan budget. Members will also note a projected increase of $727,000 in land titles and registries revenue. This is primarily in the area of securities and registration and is reflective of increased business activity in the Northwest Territories.

Members have also identified the development of family violence legislation as a priority. The Department of Justice has completed a preliminary review of this legislation and provided a copy of our report Family Violence Legislation, Interim Status Report to Members. Further research is required to determine if this legislation can be delivered in the Northwest Territories to develop some approaches that might work in our smaller communities and to cost out these options. I intend to return to Cabinet in June with this information for their consideration.

Overall, Mr. Chairman, the activities described in the main estimates support the priorities of this government. These activities will help make the Northwest Territories a safer and more secure place to live and to work.

Thank you for this opportunity to present the proposed main estimates for the Department of Justice. I will be pleased to answer any questions that you might have. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Minister Allen. Does the Standing Committee on Social Programs have any remarks? Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Standing Committee on Social Programs met with the Minister and his officials on January 18, 2002, to discuss the main estimates for the Department of Justice.

Members noted a $2,500,000 increase under the capital acquisition plan related to higher costs associated with the construction of the young offender and adult facility in Yellowknife. The committee was told higher costs for labour, geo-technical services and materials all contributed to the $2,500,000 increase.

Under operations expense, committee members noted a $62,000 increase for forced growth related to higher heating costs for correctional centres and a $66,000 reduction in amortization costs when compared to the numbers presented during the review of the business plans.

The Standing Committee on Social Programs would like to complement the Department of Justice on how their main estimates were presented to the committee. Members found it easy to examine each activity and were able to readily determine the breakdown on other expenses. This was not always the case in other departments under the purview of the committee.

Policing in the Northwest Territories

The Standing Committee on Social Programs has noted in their review of the 2002-2005 business plan that the Department of Justice and the RCMP have done an admirable job in holding the line on costs and in delivering a basic level of policing services.

During the review of the business plans, committee members pointed out to the department that the number of issues and trends affecting the delivery of policing in the Northwest Territories has outstripped the internal ability of the system to adapt without an increase in core funding. Committee members point out that many of the issues and trends affecting policing in the Northwest Territories are of concern to small and large communities.

It is time to revisit the issue of single-member RCMP detachments. The RCMP, rightly concerned about officer safety, is questioning the viability of the single-member detachment.

The standing committee supports the elimination of the single-member detachment and their replacement by a two-member detachment.

Members of the committee are also concerned that increased responsibilities for policing in Wood Buffalo National Park, for doing highway patrols and the increase in inappropriate behaviour associated with the economic boom are resulting in an unmanageable case load for individual RCMP officers.

In the report on the review of the 2002-2005 business plans for the Department of Justice, Members noted that the Government of Nunavut had announced a $3,500,000 increase to police funding to hire 14 new RCMP officers for Nunavut.

Members also pointed out that given the generally positive financial position of the government, it would be a good time for the Department of Justice, in co-operation with the RCMP, to prepare a submission to the Financial Management Board on the need for an increased police presence in the Northwest Territories.

The Standing Committee on Social Programs was pleased to hear that the Department of Justice is preparing a submission to the Financial Management Board for increased funding to the RCMP for inclusion in next year's business plans. Members would appreciate being kept informed on the status of the submission.

Community Policing

Members of the standing committee are interested in being kept apprised on the progress made with the communities of Tsiigehtchic, Sachs Harbour and Wrigley, who have no permanent RCMP presence, in addressing their policing needs. Members were pleased with the Minister's commitment to also work with the community of Rae Lakes in addressing their request for a policing presence.

Legal Aid

The Standing Committee on Social Programs was pleased to hear that it is possible for other agencies, in communities without court workers, to take applications for legal aid and forward them on to the Legal Services Board. This has not been communicated effectively to the community level.

The Standing Committee on Social Programs supports third parties taking applications for legal aid in those communities that do not have a resident court worker. It will be necessary for the Legal Services Board to provide training and support to the third parties in processing the applications.

Committee members noted the Department of Justice would not commit to reform the legal aid system in the Northwest Territories in advance of the completion of a federal research project on legal aid in Canada. The Standing Committee on Social Programs is concerned the Department of Justice is placing too great an emphasis on the results of the federal study. It is pointed out that a study commissioned by the federal government may conclude that the federal government is adequately funding legal aid in Canada.

Members would still encourage the Department of Justice to look for innovative and cost-effective ways of delivering legal aid to NWT residents in advance of release of the federal study expected early in 2003.

Finally, it was also noted that some regions might not be represented on the Legal Services Board. The committee was pleased the Minister agreed to examine the issue of representation on the Legal Services Board.

Registries

From a quick survey of other Canadian jurisdictions, committee members noted that the majority had either instituted on-line registries or were in a transition phase. The Northwest Territories has automated the personal property register. However, it should be noted that the Northwest Territories personal property register is "piggy-backed" onto the Maritime's shared system. In order to access the information, residents must either pay to subscribe to the service or attend the courthouse in Yellowknife to use the access terminal. This is of little benefit to the average resident of the Northwest Territories living outside of Yellowknife.

From discussions with the Minister and his officials, it is apparent that the department is moving towards automating many of the registry functions. It is possible for securities information to be filed electronically. Land titles are in the process of being scanned.

The department has pointed out that the costs associated with preparing and putting registry information on the Internet are prohibitive. Members understand this and note that other jurisdictions have picked a date whereby afterwards all information is available electronically. Information collected by the registries prior to that date would still be available by hard copy. The Standing Committee on Social Programs strongly encourages the Department of Justice to continue reform of the registry function. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Does the Minister wish to bring in any witnesses?

Mr. Chairman, yes, I do. Thank you.

Does the committee agree?

Sergeant-at-Arms, would you escort the witnesses in please? The Chair would like to take this opportunity to welcome to the Legislative Assembly a constituent of mine, and a good friend, Mr. Joe Kelly, up in the gallery. Welcome to the Legislative Assembly, Joe.

-- Applause

Mr. Minister, please introduce your witnesses for the record.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As a gentleman, I am first going to introduce the director of corporate services, Ms. Louise Dundas-Matthews, to my right; to my left is the deputy minister, Mr. Don Cooper. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Allen. General comments. Detail. Justice, services to government, page 7-9, operations expense, total operations expense, $7,768,000.

Page 7-11, services to government, grants and contributions, grants, $70,000.

Contributions, $3,000.

Total grants and contributions, $73,000.

Page 7-13, law enforcement, operations expense. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, as was noted in the committee report, when we talked to the Minister during the review of the draft main estimates, there was a commitment made that the department would move to present the case for increased funding for improved police services in the next business plan.

I know that Nunavut recently announced an extra $3.5 million in spending in order to add 14 officers. I am not sure that they waited for another year for that to happen. I think the announcement was that was happening right away.

I wanted to press the Minister to see if there was any opportunity for him to make the case in advance of the business plan and look to coming back for supplementary funding in order to deal with this urgent police issue. It is something we have heard a lot from Members around the Territories, that this is a problem that is in small communities, it is in big communities, it is a problem in the larger communities. We really do have a problem with the level of police services. I guess the question is can we see some results before the next budget?

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. Allen.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will speak briefly about the approach we are taking as a department. First of all, we are working with FMB and Cabinet to develop a plan to deal with the many policing issues facing us. That varies from the Community Constable Program to our ongoing liaison with the RCMP under the RCMP policing agreement. There is more to the development, so I am going to ask, with the Chair's concurrence, for Mr. Cooper to speak to the specific discussion that has been taking place between the RCMP and ourselves. Thank you.