Mr. Chairman, they were within the contract. As I say, a standard contract provides for severance payment of one month per year of service with a minimum of 12 months and a maximum of 24 months. As Mr. Voytilla has said, in this case, there was an amount negotiated because of the particular circumstances and in order to avoid legal liability. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. The Chair will recognize Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Along the same line, I may be asking almost identical questions, but we are dealing with some fineness here in definition and understanding.

I would like to know, in the case of the principal secretary and the chief of staff, by the books, did they resign their positions or were they terminated? We have been using the same words in our discussions this afternoon. I would like to know, for the record, which definition applies to which of these people? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Handley.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In the case of one of these individuals, the position was done away with. The chief of staff position was done away with. Therefore, I suppose it would be termed, in effect, a termination because the job no longer existed. In the other case, it would be an involuntary resignation. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In the case of Mr. Bayly then, an involuntary resignation, but a resignation nonetheless. What I am wondering here is, is there any kind of different consideration in the terms of separation, whether it is voluntary or involuntary? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Handley.

Mr. Chairman, in the case of an involuntary or no-cause termination, then the provision I referred to before kicks in, which is a severance of one month per year and a minimum of 12 months. If it is just a voluntary resignation, then of course this particular clause would not necessarily kick in.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In terms of negotiating and arriving at the terms of the agreements and the payouts, was anything considered for either position that was outside the terms of the contracts that were with these people? Were there any new considerations or unusual circumstances that may have been incorporated that were not included strictly in the terms of the contract? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Handley.

Mr. Chairman, I think the considerations in arriving at a termination contract were clearly within the limits I have just mentioned. One month per year service, minimum of 12, maximum of 24, and also the other point which we have made, which is the need to avoid legal liability if possible. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Then to the process of negotiating once the decisions have been made, there needs to be some negotiation and some agreement. I would like to pursue just who was involved in these discussions and in these negotiations, I guess within the Executive and the officials involved from the public service. Is there a group of officials who would normally be called on to address these kind of resignations? If so, what would those positions be? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Handley.

Mr. Chairman, normally what happens is that the secretary to Cabinet would be the person responsible, and in doing that, that individual would consult with FMBS because of their labour relations responsibilities, and potentially the Department of Justice, if there are legal issues to be considered. There is no reason to believe that these were not done in the standard way that this would be handled in any case. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Okay, no reason to believe that this was not done in these cases. Can the Minister provide further assurance that indeed these steps -- which would be a prudent way to go, you would want to have, I think, a number of pairs of ears and eyes on these kinds of things - were good procedural steps taken to consider the terms of settlement, and were the normal contacts or checks and balances involved in the final settlement? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Handley.

Mr. Chairman, information that I have is that the normal processes were followed. The normal checks and balances were followed and there is no reason to believe otherwise, in my view.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Mr. Bell.

Thank you. I just want to be clear. I think the Minister already has answered this but I want to make sure I was clear. Was any aspect of the payment made to the chief of staff discretionary or, in other words, not dictated by the terms expressly in the contract?

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Mr. Handley.