Yes, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the way I understand it, Mr. Chairman, is this government will be dealing with the lands and the jurisdictions over the Tlicho. Thank you.
Debates of Oct. 9th, 2003
This is page numbers 1355 - 1396 of the Hansard for the 14th Assembly, 6th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was tlicho.
Topics
Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1389
Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1389
Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1389
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1389
Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1389
Brendan Bell Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am not clear with the Minster's response. When we talk about the regional government level, Tlicho government. He gave us the breakdown as to what the representation on this would be and said they would have jurisdiction over citizens and lands only. I am wondering if the Minister can tell me the difference between a citizen and a resident. Thank you.
Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1389
Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1389
Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Yes, Mr. Chairman. I would like to ask counsel, Mr. Goldney, to reply to that.
Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1389
Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1389
Goldney
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The definition of a Tlicho citizen is provided for in the agreement itself and it clearly captures Tlicho persons enrolled under the agreement. Residents is broader, of course, and includes others. It's perhaps a bit of a clarification. I don't think the Minister was suggesting the Tlicho regional government won't have jurisdictions that effect non-Tlicho, but primarily those jurisdictions relate to Tlicho citizens and Tlicho lands and as the Tlicho government makes laws respecting lands in its other jurisdictions, there will be some effect on non-Tlicho.
Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1390
Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1390
Brendan Bell Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think that's the point that wasn't coming clear from the Minister's answer. It's my understanding from reading the agreement, that in its role in making laws and being able to tax citizens and have jurisdiction over the land, that residents will be captured by this and potentially the Tlicho government will tax its people and residents on these lands and, in theory, those residents could potentially be non-beneficiaries or non-citizens. That's correct, isn't it?
Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1390
Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1390
Bargery
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If I heard that question correctly, it referred to taxation of Tlicho and non-Tlicho residents on Tlicho land. The Tlicho government would have power, direct taxation powers, for the Tlicho citizens only and have jurisdiction for Tlicho lands. So it has some responsibilities for the management of the resources on those lands and activities that occur on those lands, but taxation is limited to Tlicho citizens. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1390
Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1390
Brendan Bell Yellowknife South
I appreciate that explanation. I think that's one of the things that's been discussed and one of the things that I have had a number of people talk to me about; this provision. There seems to be a lot of mystery around it and I don't think it's entirely clear, but it seems...Maybe I could ask you this way, did the government have any concern of taxation without representation? Was that discussed in the negotiation of this agreement, as we see that the makeup of the government includes the grand chief, the community chiefs and one representative from each of the communities elected at large, as it were, which would allow for non-beneficiaries to be involved in that government? My understanding though was that this government could impose taxes on residents, not necessarily citizens, but on residents and then the concern could become whether or not this passes the test of representation and taxation. So in the government's mind then there isn't a concern here with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms in that respect. Thank you.
Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1390
Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1390
Bargery
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just to be clear, clause 7.45 of the final agreement recognizes the power of the Tlicho government to enact laws and part of that is direct taxation of Tlicho citizens on Tlicho lands and in Tlicho communities. It doesn't have the power to tax non-Tlicho citizens with one exception. It can do so through agreement. The Tlicho agreement is permissive in that way. Governments can enter into agreements to share tax. It allows for those negotiations. It doesn't prescribe that there must be an agreement, only that negotiations may occur in that respect. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1390
Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1390
Michael McLeod Deh Cho
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I have a few questions. First of all, I wanted to ask the Minister regarding the public review that was mentioned earlier, about having unprecedented public review and consultation with the 40 groups. I just wonder if you could clarify where that was all held.
Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1390
The Chair David Krutko
Excuse me, Mr. McLeod. We are already on clause 1. So can you rephrase your comment to clause 1, which talks about the Tlicho government and tax agreement? Please keep your question to that section. Mr. McLeod.
Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1390
Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1390
Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1390
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
General Comments
Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1390
Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1390
Michael McLeod Deh Cho
Mr. Chairman, I will rephrase my question. In the Tlicho agreement, there was a consultation process. I would like to ask the Minister, what consultation process took place?