Thank you, Mr. Chairman. At this point, from what our volumes are or the volumes that can be presently met in the Northwest Territories, we can purchase internally and that will help us sustain some local economies. Thank you.
Debates of March 11th, 2003
This is page numbers 645 - 700 of the Hansard for the 14th Assembly, 6th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.
Topics
NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 684
NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 684
The Chair David Krutko
I would just like to remind Members again, I don't take this lightly, I have warned people about chewing gum in this House, I notice that Mr. Steen is chewing gum in this House and I would like to ask Mr. Steen to remove his gum. We should show some respect in this House. There are certain rules that we follow and one of them is we are not allowed to have any food or anything to chew. All we are allowed to consume is water so I would like to request Mr. Steen to remove your gum, please.
Capital acquisitions plan.
NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 11th, 2003
Page 684
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
---Agreed
NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 684
NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 684
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
---Agreed
NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 684
NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 684
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
---Agreed
NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 684
NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 684
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
---Agreed
NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 684
The Chair David Krutko
Page 8-35 contributions to local housing authorities, information item. Mr. Nitah.
NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 684
Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, contributions to local housing organizations is a very important area of responsibility of this government. The housing corporation is currently discussing with some communities the universal partnership agreement, Lutselk'e being one of the communities that is interested in taking on that responsibility. I know for a fact that it takes five or six people to deliver housing programs to Lutselk'e but, when we asked to negotiate this, we asked for those positions to be moved to the communities but the housing corporation does not want to do that.
Now, the question I have to ask the housing corporation is how seriously are you negotiating these universal partnership agreements? How seriously do you want these communities to succeed in taking on more responsibility? If you deliver housing programs and services in the community, if you are not going to devolve the positions or the financial resources to hire those positions, then as far as I'm concerned, the housing corporation is not serious to do so. So I ask, is it a common practice to devolve responsibility to communities without proper resources? Does the housing corporation like to see the communities fail? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Roger Allen Inuvik Twin Lakes
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. From a political prospective, our mandate again is to help the communities develop capacity. We are trying to do that through a number of forums. The intent here is to provide advice, guidance, financial assistance, technical assistance and to make sure that they are not doomed to fail. From a financing perspective, I ask the president to speak to that specifically. Thank you.
NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Beaulieu
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The NWT Housing Corporation is attempting to negotiate universal partnership agreements with five communities with the plan to negotiate partnership agreements in all the communities that are interested in negotiating partnership agreements. The resources that are needed to deliver these programs to the various communities is something that is being worked out between the housing corporation and the community governments. We feel that it is difficult for us to respond on the amount of full time positions that it would take to deliver programs to one community, however, we know that we have a staff of around 100 and we are delivering in 33 communities across the Territories. Some communities are bigger than others and require more resources but we are attempting to do a fair allocation to the communities that we are negotiating with at this time.
NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 685
Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, from a political perspective the Northwest Territories needs major faster building in the communities. From a political perspective, Mr. Chairman, if we devolve responsibility to communities and don't devolve human or financial resources to deliver those programs and services as best as they can to the current level of delivery of those programs and services, Mr. Chairman, we are setting them up to fail. So if it takes five people to deliver all housing programs and services in the community of Lutselk'e, why does the Minister feel that it would take that community less human or financial resources to deliver the same programs or services?
With the last department I came up with the same thing, when we do the work in there, we'll subsidize ourselves but when a private entrepreneur takes on the responsibility, you don't need subsidies. That's not a philosophy that I'd like to have of our politics or corporations. It doesn't work that way. We've set them up to fail and if we continuously do that, we will never develop capacity in the communities and we will always administer a welfare state. That is exactly what we are doing.
I know I've been through that already. Health and social services boards in the communities were set up to fail, now there is no capacity in that community to deliver those programs and services. Now the government has a perfect excuse not to deliver or negotiate any further devolution of the responsibilities of this government. So I ask the Minister again, would he consider devolving the resources necessary to deliver these programs and services to the same level that this corporation currently has when it negotiates these agreements with the communities? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Roger Allen Inuvik Twin Lakes
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There are some interesting points that I would like to raise here and one is that the LHOs, the local housing authorities, have their own set of bylaws and they have their set of governance afforded them under the NWT Housing Corporation Act so they do have some autonomy in how they govern themselves. They have been in existence since the '70s and they have developed a certain level of capacity. What we are talking about here is now taking a set of programs and transferring them over into their governorship and that will allow them first and foremost to make decisions, take some responsibility, be accountable for the delivery of those programs and services.
What we are saying is that once we can work with them under a partnership agreement, we will be able to lend them the expertise so they do not fail. That is part of the overall concept of the UPAs, so they can provide us with adequate resources to carry through that mandate. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 685
Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, what I see is a political downloading of programs and services that is causing a headache for the Minister and his staff of not wanting to follow suit with the financial or human resources. There are three people in the local housing authority in Tu Nedhe, one manager and one administrative staff and one maintenance guy. That doesn't cover all the housing needs in the community. It doesn't nearly come close to what is required to deliver proper programs and services in that area. Now they are operating on a shoestring budget. They are operating in crisis management mode in all these communities. No doubt about that.
While we have bureaucracy sitting top heavy in our regional capital center, we are having a hard time. We want to devolve this problematic area but we don't want to devolve any financial or human resources to do the job. Now, the Minister just again hid behind the local housing authority. Not my responsibility. These guys have a 25-year history, Mr. Chairman, of continuously being in crisis mode for the housing required in our communities... continuously. It's a recent phenomenon here in Yellowknife, a recent phenomenon in Inuvik but in Lutselk'e it is a 25-year history of need. In Fort Good Hope it is a 25-year history of need.
That is what we have to address. If we are going to provide them with the mandate to do that, the responsibility that this corporation currently has and is getting millions of dollars for, then let's provide some of that millions of dollars down, streamline it down to the communities. If we are going to mandate it and do it, let's give them the resources to do it. That's all I am saying, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 685
NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 685
Roger Allen Inuvik Twin Lakes
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As we proceed through this budget session, we did address some of the key questions. Lutselk'e was one of the six communities identified as being in critical need. We provide additional money to catch up to their housing needs. The Member of Tu Nedhe is expressing the fact of where we are stepping in terms of the administration. I feel that each community is being treated fairly, although there may be other areas we can identify that we could tweak a bit in terms of the UPA concept. Again, we want to work with the communities and we have in some previous consultations with the specific community and try to identify some of those areas we can improve upon. Recognizing we are a small corporation, we have limited resources and it's co-funded with the federal government. We have developed a fairly strong strategy to deal with the conflicts of affordability and also from the administrative perspective provide that level of administrative support in trying to encourage those communities to take the responsibility of delivering those housing programs and services. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 685
NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 685
Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think we have to take that word "fair" out of his context and examine it. Maybe it's fair from the Housing Corporation perspective, but if you look at it from the community's perspective, it's not too fair. It's not fair to ask the local body that the Minister appoints to manage this. It's not fair to the manager of the housing authority that he or she is not entirely resourced to do so. I would like to ask the Minister, maybe you should get up from behind your desk and go to the community, send some of your staff to the community, maybe live there for a little while to understand the challenges. I know what you are trying to say, we are trying to devolve and make it work but you don't make it work by devolving responsibility without the resources to make it happen. Let's revisit the resources you are allocating under the universal partnership agreement, so it can work. It's not very difficult. It doesn't take a genius to figure out if you don't provide proper resources, nine times out of ten, every effort will fail. That's all I am saying. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.