This is page numbers 645 - 700 of the Hansard for the 14th Assembly, 6th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

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NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Leon Lafferty

Thank you. Mr. McLeod.

NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, I do take pride in bringing Pages to this House, however, I was never aware that I would be personally liable. I think that's something that has never been spelled out up to now. We, as out-of-town representatives, are certainly at a disadvantage then. I mean, it's bad enough we have to come to Yellowknife to hire our staff here because that's the only way we can be fairly efficient at being involved as things happen around here, and if we don't utilize some of the services in the Great Hall and other things; but now the Pages, I have to be personally responsible. Isn't there some kind of an insurance program we could access that would cover this?

NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Leon Lafferty

Thank you. Mr. Speaker.

NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think maybe the direction that we're going in is probably not quite correct. We're talking a lot of insurance as far as financial and this type of coverage. I don't think that's what I meant. I'm referring to the responsibilities that the member would assume, and assure the parents that they're going to supervise the young people who come here. They're going to take them under their wings, so to speak, and be more responsible for the moral part of it, for lack of a better term. They're going to get to bed on time, they're going to get up in the morning on time, they're not going to be rowdy or doing things that they normally wouldn't do.

I think that's what I was probably referring to, more than the sense of an accident happening. Youth who do come here as Pages are generally quite responsible. In the past, the supervision given by the honourable Members has never been that onerous. They've never had... Very, very few, in my recollection have ever been a problem. Perhaps getting them down to eat on time and getting them up in the morning to have their breakfast on time and to get down to the Assembly on time; those kinds of things are really incidental and they're minor inconveniences at best.

I think the direction that this is taking seems to be that is a tremendous load on the Member. I assure you it isn't. It could be seen by the community as being a very important part of young people's upbringing, and a very valuable contribution to the community by the honourable Members by doing something like this. I see the direction going in an area here where we're talking about insurance and stuff like that. That's not what I had in mind. It's the parental guidance that the parent has tasked over to the honourable Members, that they should be more than happy... I would be more than happy to take it on.

NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Leon Lafferty

Thank you. Mr. McLeod.

NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, as Mr. Nitah pointed out, there's a double standard here. None of the Yellowknife MLAs have to look after... They don't take any responsibility over their Pages. We, on the other hand, have to assume liability over them, and we have to pay for it out of our budgets. A lot of times, I have to consider whether I should bring in Pages or take a trip to my riding. This is a completely different set of responsibilities, and it's not about getting them out of bed on time or putting them to bed. Those things are fairly easy to take care of, and I'm sure every out-of-town MLA here does that. But how can this House expect us to be liable, personally liable, for our Pages when they come from the community? That is a real... That's a complete, two-tiered system when we start dealing with other MLAs versus the local MLAs. So I'd like to know if the Speaker would look at this whole situation, and see if we could at least try to balance it out. I don't think everybody was aware that we would be personally responsible for our Pages. That could be a huge liability if something happened.

NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Leon Lafferty

Thank you. Mr. Speaker.

NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I guess I'm getting a bit concerned with the vision that some of the members are getting with what their responsibilities are, and talk of personal liabilities. I don't think that that was the intention of my comments. When I refer to liability as a responsibility of parental responsibility, you're bringing someone here and you're going to look after them. You're assuring the parents that you're doing that. I don't think it's a matter of them getting hurt and that you're going to be personally responsible. That's not the issue.

As far as the fairness is concerned; well, if the honourable Members don't think this is fair, then they should bring some recommendations to the Board of Management. We'll take that under advisement and see if we can come up with something. Currently we pay for the transportation of two students per year per member. We've gone that far. If the honourable Members wish to have this changed, then approach the Board of Management, make the recommendations to the Board of Management. The Board of Management, in its wisdom, will make its decision based on that and perhaps come forward with more money to do it.

NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Leon Lafferty

Thank you. Mr. McLeod.

NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, I'll take the direction from the Speaker and bring the issue to the Board of Management. It's certainly a big issue and it just can't be overlooked anymore. It's something that has to be balanced out. We should not be put in a position to be liable, in terms of getting sued or anything if something happens to the Pages. Everybody should be on the same playing field at this point.

I also just want to ask the Speaker about affirmative action. I see in his opening comments he's trying to get the House to reflect the traditions and the culture. I'd like to know about the affirmative action content in his staff. People tune into this House every day and we don't see a lot of aboriginal staff in this building, at least not up front.

NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Leon Lafferty

Thank you. Mr. Speaker.

NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I heard the comments and the concerns of the honourable Member. I can assure him that we've given it our best shot over the past little while. We do have a good number of aboriginal people working within the building. The honourable Members have their choice of who they hire, as well, for their assistants, and I think they set the trend as well. But we follow the normal hiring practices here, and be assured that affirmative action is one of the things that we apply as is required. I'm not sure where we can go with that at the moment but, as positions come available, aboriginal people should be encouraged to apply. Then certainly the Affirmative Action Policy will be enforced and applied wherever it's necessary.

NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Leon Lafferty

Thank you. General comments. Ms. Lee.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Range Lake

Thank you. Just a couple of points. On the Page program I've been listening, and I'd like to also recommend that the Speaker, as the chair of the Board of Management, take this issue to the Board of Management to look into it further. I acknowledge that and I appreciate that I think the Page program has improved over the last two or three years, because prior to that we didn't have a system where the out-of-town members could bring Pages here. But I think it is a fair point that the Yellowknife Members take it for granted that our school children come here and they get to see the workings of the Assembly and have the benefit of it, and that similar services and programs should be available to the other Members and their young constituents.

This is such an honourable place, and I know that Youth Parliament, for example, has given an opportunity for the young to come here and see what their Members do. I know that the Paging program in Ottawa is one that is very prestigious and that attracts students from all over Canada to serve as a Page in Parliament, except that I guess in Ottawa, they have older Pages and some of them are in college and university, so you don't have to worry about looking after them and lots of other things that come to play here. So there are a lot more cost implications, I appreciate that, because we have Pages who are much younger.

Maybe to accommodate the out-of-town MLAs, maybe we could raise the age of Pages who come from out of town. Maybe they could be teenagers. Well, maybe they need more care, I don't know. But there are lots of other things to consider. I know that for Youth Parliament, lots of staff actually volunteer and give up their personal time to supervise them for 24 hours a day. So just to have them for a week is the thing. But if Board of Management could put their brains into it and address the matter in detail and in a thorough manner, maybe all of these issues could be looked at and addressed. I think that if we could come up with $250,000 to put a camera outside of my window, I think that we could address our minds to come up with a program to address this issue and to really give a fair chance. This is not about the Members, it's about the kids who could have that opportunity to see what happens here and I think that's very important. So that's one issue.

The second issue that I want to ask the Speaker to bring to the Board of Management, and it's something that came to me when I received correspondence from the Speaker's office in February... I don't know how much of it is public so I don't want to divulge too much, but I think that we're aware that there is some sort of succession planning in the offing and I'm sure that appropriate and well-deserved recognition will be given in due course. So I know that the Board of Management is considering this, and I'm wondering if the Speaker would consider looking into some sort of affirmative action for the management of the Assembly? I say this because this is such a symbolic place and we are looked upon as a public example to do good and to follow the policies of the government wherever possible. For me, the House officers and Clerk's office is the management of the Legislative Assembly. I really believe that wherever possible that it should reflect the affirmative action that we espouse.

So I'd like to know if the Speaker would address with the Board of Management to set up a program to train and hire aboriginal House officers and women House officers, as well as everyone else. I mean that for future planning. I don't mean that for any of the incumbents here, because I know we are certainly given very good service and advice and I appreciate that very much. But I think that whenever an institution like this is going through succession planning that only comes once in a while, it might be a good time to look at that. So I'd like to know if the Speaker would be willing to bring that to Board of Management.

NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Leon Lafferty

Thank you. Mr. Speaker.

NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, those are good comments, and be assured that the board has already looked at succession planning and it will consider all of the things that the honourable Member has raised. It's already begun and we're just waiting for some feedback, and we certainly will take into consideration what the Member has put forward.

NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Leon Lafferty

Thank you. Ms. Lee.

NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Range Lake

Further to that, Mr. Chairman, the Member for Deh Cho brought up statistics on affirmative action. I think that the stats would show that the Legislative Assembly as a whole could do better in terms of affirmative action stats. I think probably I could say that about most of the departments.

Another thing I want to add to that is the Clerk's office encompasses a whole array of services. Most of the work done in the Assembly is under the auspices of the Clerk's office, and House officers, to me, are the management. They are the top of this Assembly, and that should be where the affirmative action should be most applied and reflected. In your discussion with the Board of Management, I wonder if you would make sure that there is an internal mobility focused in that as well, because in every department we want to make sure that affirmative candidates are brought in, then moved up, trained and given opportunities to be promoted and grow in those jobs. The guiding principle of affirmative action is that there are no barriers put in place that would discriminate against one group or another.

So in your discussions with Board of Management about this, I want to make sure that you will address your mind to making sure that you look within the government to see who may be able to be placed in a position to be trained to be a House officer, along with everyone else who are in place so that it properly reflects the population that we serve. I think that there's a lot of work being done by the Speaker's office to make sure our cultures are reflected in our surroundings, as well as the manpower that's used here; man and woman power.

NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Leon Lafferty

Thank you. Mr. Speaker.

NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 11th, 2003

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Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the comments the honourable Member has made and I believe the Board of Management will take those considerations and deal with them. One of the elements in the succession plan is to recruit or actively seek out and recruit affirmative action people and put the training in place that will see them achieve what the honourable Member is suggesting. I think if you look at the workforce, it does reflect to a greater degree than probably is visible the affirmative action guidelines, the length of time people are here, born and raised in the Territories. We would certainly welcome more suggestions on how to improve this from the honourable Members as time goes by.

NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Leon Lafferty

General comments. Mr. Krutko.

NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, as we all know, we are going into an election year and there is going to be a transition between this Assembly and the 15th Assembly. In most cases, coming from the 13th Assembly and then going into the 14th, I really notice a difference with regard to accountability, protocol and what you are accountable for and what you are not accountable for.

One thing I see is there is more paperwork than ever before. I think that there is a point of accountability, but there is also a point of overkill. I would like to ask the Board of Management have they considered, knowing there is going to be a transitional document of some sort for the new government, have they looked at the Members' Handbook or our rules and procedures that we have to operate under with regard to the problems we have run into with accountability or expenses, for travel, for the problems we run into in trying to do our job as a Member, what you can do and what you can't do?

I feel that this 14th Assembly is more restricted than we were in the 13th Assembly. To do your job, you have to keep looking through a microscope to see if it's okay to do it or it's not okay. You have to get permission to do this and you have to pack the handbook around with you. Are there any efforts going to be made to have a review of existing policies and guidelines that we have in place for Members to carry out their responsibilities as elected Members to this Legislature? And is there going to be input from Members of this Assembly to have a say on areas that are controversial and the possibility of looking at recommendations to the 15th Assembly, so they can have a chance to rework some of these rules to make them more workable?

NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Leon Lafferty

Thank you. Mr. Speaker.

NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The honourable Member's comments are appreciated and heard. I personally don't know of any review of the handbook that's taking place because I have always assumed and have been assured that it does follow the Legislative Assembly's policies. This is just a guideline to meet those particular policies. There are things that are perhaps difficult to deal with, but a simple phone call or a meeting of the administrative staff will certainly clear that. I don't think that we can operate without rules and guidelines. Those guidelines are there and have been modified since I first started in the Assembly and it makes it quite clear and oftentimes too clear.

If the Member has some particular suggestions that we could use to enhance that book or the transition to the next Assembly, we would certainly appreciate them and it would help us and the next Assembly make things more streamlined. But be assured that the policies and acts that have been set out by this House and the government are being applied and I don't wish to see that changed, smoothed out, yes. If there are some suggestions the honourable Member can make to help us, we certainly would entertain that.

NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Leon Lafferty

Thank you. Mr. Krutko.