Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I indicated in the House yesterday, integrated services and housing is available with all the other professional supports that are required. We have meetings today with the individual clients, outside of the glare and pressure cooker intensity of group meetings, but we have been approached. They were talking to clients on an individual basis. So I am confident that as this issue moves through its transition phase that we will be able to make sure that all the clients we have down there are successfully integrated into the alternate placements that have been found for them.

Supplementary, Mr. Villeneuve.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just wanted to ask the Minister again whether the individual interviews take place, or whether it's in a group interview with the CEO and the representative from the Department of Health and Social Services. I have been assured that these clients will not be moving anywhere, Mr. Speaker, and that they refuse to go to any other institution, especially an institution which they have been removed from because of abuse and mistreatment. How is the Department of Health and Social Services going to ensure that these clients who do not want to move out of this institution are going to be adequately treated and taken care of? Thank you.

Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we are the last funding agency left with APYS as far as we know. The Nunavut government and the Alberta government have taken steps to relocate their clients for the issues that have been discussed for some time now. Mr. Speaker, we have arranged alternate placements. At the end of the day, as adults, if they refuse to move, we will work with them to ensure that they are connected to Alberta Health and Social Services, that they

take advantage of the services that are available within the city and provided by the Alberta government. We will also be retaining the space in the integrated services for these clients to come in and take advantage of the services that are there waiting for them.

Supplementary, Mr. Villeneuve.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am not sure what the Minister was referring to, but I don't think he has really answered my question as to how the Government of the Northwest Territories is planning on abandoning these clients and leaving them at the disposal of the city of Edmonton and the services that they provide. How can the Minister tell these people that the government who supported them for the last 10 years in numerous institutions is now suddenly pulling the rug out from underneath an agency which has provided them with a very improved quality of life resulting in reduced risk behaviours? I am quoting Mr. Paul Kohl, which is the Office of the Public Guardian. How can the government sit back and say they are just going to have to go to the city of Edmonton and take advantage of the services available to them and we will just keep track of what they are doing? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, let me be as clear as I can on this issue. We are not abandoning anybody. We have made all the appropriate arrangements. We have had staff down there for the last few weeks trying to work through this transition. The reality is, at the end of the day, APYS has to get its house in order with the Alberta government so they are duly licensed and they comply with all the other hearings where they have to, and at which time we will consider doing business with them. Until that is done, we have an obligation to ensure that the people from the North are given assurance of the highest quality of service that we can get, that standards are met, that they have all the due licensing and other permits they need to do the business that they are in. So that is what we have done. We are being very diligent about this. We are putting many resources to this. My hope was that APYS would do the work necessary to get its house in order with the Alberta government. Thank you.

Final supplementary, Mr. Villeneuve.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. With reference to getting their house in order with the Alberta government, I think APYS is finding it very difficult to get their house in order when they are dealing with a CEO of the Edmonton board of Persons with Developmental Disabilities that couldn't provide any real substantial reason as to why he was refusing APYS certification to deliver the agency's programs to the clients and to the staff at yesterday's meeting. He refused to answer any questions as to why the Edmonton board of Persons with Developmental Disabilities was refusing the agency's certification and would not answer any questions relating to that. So I am just wondering why the Minister is basing our decision to relocate and put undue stress on a lot of clients and families on a decision by someone who may have a personal vendetta or be biased towards aboriginal organizations in general and not take the interviews with certified doctors, staff and clients' feedback on the agency's programming and success. Why are we saying one guy's refusal to certify an agency is the basis for refusing proper treatment to NWT clients? Thank you.

Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Member has made a number of allegations against some of the officials in Edmonton that work for government. Mr. Speaker, we are a contracting body that are buying a service. We have certain obligations. It is not our role to get involved in the disagreements and the internal wranglings and differences between APYS and the Alberta government and whatever other agencies are in Alberta. It's an Alberta run operation that runs out of Edmonton. They have to comply with the laws of the land, the standards of the land, and their obligation was to do that. We are looking after the residents of the Northwest Territories. We are committed to buying that service and ensuring that they are put into facilities that meet the basic standards so that we can contract in confidence, knowing that their needs will be met. APYS has their obligation to sort things out. I am not in a position to comment or determine what caused the breakdown between APYS and the Alberta government. It has happened. It has caused the situation we are in today and we have been doing our best to respond in the most constructive way possible. Thank you.

Item 6, oral questions. Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes, Mr. Allen.

Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation, Mr. McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the issue of homelessness is a very large, broad issue across the board. We share responsibility through a number of different departments, including ECE, Health and the Housing Corporation. We have set up a social Ministers' committee to work more as a team, to talk about the issues that we have across the North. We also have a Minister responsible for homelessness. Having said that, the NWT Housing Corporation plays a large role when it comes to addressing homelessness. There are two categories as part of that definition: the relative homelessness and the absolute homelessness. We certainly have a number of people who can be defined as relative homeless across the North. Most of the people who are in our social housing programs fit that definition. We continue to make housing more available. Our goal is to follow through with a number of the initiatives that were started in the 14th Assembly and to meet all the challenges that are being placed in front of us, such as declining funding from CMHC and also the current Government of the Northwest Territories fiscal situation. So we have huge challenges. We have industry that is developing across the North. We are looking at pipeline projects. We are doing analysis. We are just currently packaging up our core needs assessment for 2004. We will be making that information known and will set our government direction based on that information. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary, Mr. Allen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think I memorized that line as well, but my question is in the context of social impacts on residents of the Northwest Territories brought on by industry, diamond mining, oil and gas. Mr. Speaker, it's in the context of affordability. I was glad to see the Minister has afforded the initiative for removing the BIP for economic housing. Precisely what kind of mitigation is the Minister prepared to do to ensure the continuation of the liaison between the proponents, and is he willing to give the residents of the Northwest Territories affordable housing once projects are completed and once his department would like to entertain in terms of the redesign and also the engineering of those homes so they can be moved from a camp setting to the community at a reduced cost to those who are prepared to buy those units? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation, Mr. McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I guess there are a number of different questions that the Member raised. Mr. Speaker, we have programs in place. We are looking at affordable housing. Our strategy is still there and is continuing from the 14th Assembly. We still provide funding to developers. We have our corporate loan guarantees. We also provide our social programs. In terms of what we are doing for converting, I think the word the Member used was economic projects and using those facilities; we have not developed that any further. It's not something we are currently looking at. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary, Mr. Allen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think that was one of the very few initiatives that had potential for NWT residents in terms of affordability. It also had merit in the sense that the costs would be reduced. I am going to ask the Minister again if he is prepared to re-enter into those forms of negotiations and discussions with those proponents that will see affordable housing delivered to the people of the Northwest Territories outside of existing programs? Thank you.