Good afternoon, Members. Before we begin, Members will notice we have hung the large Canadian flag in the Chamber today. This display is usually reserved for Canada Day, however today is both National Flag Day, as well as the 40th anniversary of the Canadian flag.

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The search for the Canadian flag started as early as 1925 but never really got off the ground until 1964 when, out of 2,600 submitted designs, a specially struck Senate and House of Commons committee was left with three possible designs, including a red flag with a single, stylized red maple leaf on a white square with red bars. After much deliberation, the committee eventually decided to recommend the single leaf design submitted by Dr. George Stanley, dean of arts, at the Royal Military College in Kingston. It was approved by resolution of the House of Commons on December 17, 1964, and proclaimed by Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, the Queen of Canada, to take effect on February 15, 1965.

I recently heard that the original Canadian flag that flew on the Peace Tower in Ottawa was relocated after having been lost to close to four years. I don't think we will have any difficulty finding this flag that is hanging behind us today any time soon. It's safe to say that this was not the original flag that flew on the Peace Tower.

Please join me in celebrating National Flag Day and this historic 40th anniversary of the Canadian flag.

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Members, before we begin, I would like to draw your attention to the Speaker's Gallery and the presence of former Member and former Speaker of this House, Mr. Tony Whitford.

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Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Good afternoon. February 14th to the 18th is Aurora College Week, and this year there is a lot to celebrate. Throughout the week, the college will continue to hold events to celebrate its vital role in post-secondary and adult education and training in the Northwest Territories.

This year there are 412 full-time students attending a variety of programs through Aurora College, including adult basic education, trades and technology programs, and career and professional programs. Graduates of these programs have the opportunity to further their studies at universities through partnerships the college has arranged over a number of years. Graduates are also getting jobs across the North. The development of a northern workforce is an important goal of our post-secondary system.

I mentioned in my opening that there is a lot to celebrate and I would like to cite a number of examples of achievements. The college has recently received an award for its Diamond Polishing program, the Yves Landry Award for Educational Innovation. The Yves Landry Foundation provides the opportunity for business, education and government to collectively be part of the solution to advance technological education and skills training in order to resolve the skilled labour shortages facing Canadian industries.

A number of Aurora College students have also been recognized recently for excellence in their fields of study.

The Governor General's Academic Medal was awarded to John McKinnon from Fort Smith. The Governor General's medal is awarded to an Aurora College student with the highest academic achievement. John McKinnon is enrolled in the Natural Resources Technology Program at Thebacha Campus.

Steven Bounds from Norman Wells received the In-course Millennium Excellence Award. This award supports students who are beginning post-secondary studies for the first time and who have demonstrated academic achievements, community involvement, the ability to lead and motivate others and an interest in innovation and academic achievement.

The CN Scholarship for Women, which encourages women to seek careers in trades and technology, was awarded to Brenda Kikoak of Inuvik, currently enrolled in the Natural Resources Technology Program at Aurora Campus.

Finally, the Enbridge Pipeline Scholarship was awarded to two Aurora College students: Ericson Sanguez from Jean Marie River, and Rebecca Jumbo from Trout Lake.

In addition to all of these awards, the college is celebrating the 10th anniversary of the Northern Nursing Program at the Yellowknife Campus. Over 120 nurses have graduated from the program and many of them have found jobs in the NWT. The Diploma in Nursing, which was completely developed and delivered in the NWT, has recently partnered with the University of Victoria and the Collaborative Nursing Project of British Columbia to deliver a Baccalaureate of Science in Nursing; BSN. The

entire degree program is now offered in Yellowknife and will see its first graduates in 2006.

In closing, I invite Members of this House to join the college in celebrating Aurora College Week. Thank you.

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, on October 28, 2004, Mrs. Groenewegen asked me to confirm that the NWT Status of Women Council was invited to be a full participant in the preparation of the NWT action plan on family violence. I would like to clarify my answers to Mrs. Groenewegen.

The Coalition Against Family Violence developed the NWT action plan on family violence, 2003-2008, and presented it to the Government of the Northwest Territories in October of 2003. The Status of Women Council is a member of that coalition.

To develop a response, the GNWT brought together representatives from several GNWT departments that had a role in the prevention of family violence. That group prepared the Government of the Northwest Territories response to the coalition's action plan referred to by Mrs. Groenewegen. No non-government agencies were involved in the development of the GNWT's response. I apologize for the confusion caused by my earlier comments about this issue.

The Status of Women Council was not involved in the development of the GNWT response. They were, however, invited to review the public awareness plan related to the implementation of the family violence action plan but did not attend those meetings.

The Status of Women Council does, however, remain actively involved in the monitoring of the GNWT response. I have been in contact with them to discuss a meeting with their board to provide an update on the actions that the GNWT continues to take to meet our commitments to help prevent family violence in the NWT. Prior to the meeting, I will be updating the Coalition Against Family Violence by letter on the status of the GNWT's action. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise today because families in Yellowknife are still having trouble getting a family doctor and even simply seeing a doctor.

Mr. Speaker, I believe, a few years ago, the change from switching family doctors to go from fee-for-service to salary has caused a serious gap in service delivery. Mr. Speaker, a few years ago, we had 14 doctors seeing approximately 40 patients a day, but today we have approximately 20 doctors a day seeing 20 patients a day. That is 80 visits a day short, Mr. Speaker, that our constituents and our families are missing out on an opportunity to see a doctor.

Mr. Speaker, how many doctors do we need to make up those levels that we were seeing a few years ago? Mr. Speaker, we would need 35 doctors to see all the patients who needed to be seen at 2000 levels.

Mr. Speaker, there are also other problems at this time that need to be pointed out, problems such as one visit with one issue. Mr. Speaker, in a 15-minute allotment of time to see a doctor, you are allowed to see them on one issue. So if you are there for five minutes, you aren't allowed to say, what about this? The doctor will say make another appointment.

Mr. Speaker, there are no incentives for the doctors to deal with more than one issue. There is no incentive to see these patients and make sure they get the health care that they need. I think switching them to salary has taken a step backwards in our service delivery, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have even heard rumours that the doctors now want to see 16 patients a day, not 20. I want to make sure that that is not the case because, at 16, we are going to need a lot more doctors to deliver the same services 14 doctors delivered a few years ago.

Mr. Speaker, the question would be, how many doctors will be enough. Later today, I will be asking the Minister responsible, and I hope we will get some clear answers. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Range Lake, Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to speak today about the need for a youth shelter in Yellowknife; a place where youth can go, not just during the day and early evenings, but through the night if necessary, a place where they can take shelter from the elements and be safe from the influences of alcohol and drugs and other negative sides of night life.

Mr. Speaker, I know it is hard to accept, but the fact of the matter is that we do have youth in our community, especially on weekends, who have no place to go because, for many of them, their home is not what a home should be. They have to get away from their own families because they often abuse alcohol and drugs and degenerate into fights and arguments, and they don't want to be a part of it. If they are lucky, Mr. Speaker, they are taken in by the families of their friends, but this cannot be counted on on a permanent basis. So they go to the youth centre to get away, but the problem is that the youth centre closes at midnight.

So what do they do? They leave the youth centre and go straight down to the Gold Range street. They go there and watch the adults, many of whom they know, pouring out of the bars until two o'clock in the morning. Otherwise, Mr. Speaker, even in the dead of winter, they literally walk the streets all night long because they have no place to go. I am told that even when the RCMP stops them, they are not able to offer any assistance because they don't really have much option either.

The fact is, Mr. Speaker, there are basic shelters for adult males, adult females, and adults with families, however wanting they may be. For those under the age of 16, the child welfare system moves in where warranted, but for those between 16 and 18, they are caught in a legal limbo, left to fend for themselves.

We, as a society, turn a blind eye on the whole situation, and we wonder why they turn up on the wrong side of the law in no time. Surely, Mr. Speaker, in the affluent society we live in, we can do better by these young people.

I have written to the Minister of Health and Social Services about this, but I have not heard from him. I understand that the SideDoor has proposed a package and will be going to the appropriate agencies for funding. I would like to call upon the government to step up to the plate and work with all of the partners and do the right thing by our precious young people and support the package for an all-night shelter. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Kam Lake, Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My statement today is with regard to the decision the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs made in providing permission to the Yellowknives Dene's business arm, Deton'Cho Corporation, to access a portion of Commissioner's land located within the municipal boundaries of the city of Yellowknife, an area commonly referred to as the sandpits.

First off, I would like to applaud the efforts of the Deton'Cho Corporation and the chiefs of the Yellowknives Dene in embarking on this initiative. However, there are some serious concerns that I have with how this happened and why it happened the way it did. I was a councillor with the City of Yellowknife in 1997 when we applied, through MACA, for the same parcel of land. We had absolutely no response from the department at that time. The city applied again in October of 2004 for the same parcel of land and was told that the consultation process would have to be embarked upon. It came as a complete shock to myself and to the City of Yellowknife that MACA had given permission to access a portion of the sandpits for geotechnical and engineering work to the Deton'Cho Corporation and a southern firm that are planning a residential housing development on that site.

My understanding of the Interim Measures Agreement is that this action by MACA goes against the protocol as set out in the IMA. It sets a very dangerous precedent in going forward. From much of the information I have seen, the future development of the Yellowknife Airport is on the west side of the property, which would abut the area currently under review by the Deton'Cho Corporation. I am not sure the Minister of MACA has ever flown in or out of the city of Fort McMurray, but I would like to tell him that the wheels of the plane almost touch the roofs of the homes in Fort McMurray. By granting access of the sandpits to Deton'Cho, the Minister is saying that his department is condoning residential development in this area, even though he knows this is not in the general plan of the City of Yellowknife, a plan which he agrees with and approves of.

What is happening with the joint survey the Department of MACA is undergoing with the Yellowknife Shooting Club and the City of Yellowknife? What about the seismic array? What about the Department of Transportation concerns? The City of Yellowknife issues, the Kam Lake access road, where do all of these issues fit if the Deton'Cho Corporation proceeds with a housing development at the sandpits?

Mr. Speaker, I am very interested and concerned over the decision and how it was made. At the appropriate time on today's order paper, I will have questions for the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My Member's statement today has to do with the road conditions of our goat trail in the Sahtu, our winter road. Mr. Speaker, I received numerous complaints from the people in the Sahtu about our winter road conditions, the wear and tear that is on the winter road and the number of trucks that are going up through the Sahtu to haul rigs or bring supplies into our region. Also, for the people who are travelling out of the Sahtu in that short period of time who come to places like Yellowknife, Hay River and Fort Simpson to do their winter shopping and also to do their vacationing. Because the cost is expensive to fly, people take this opportunity to travel down to these other centres to do their holidaying and shopping.

My constituents are very concerned because of the wear and tear of the road and the lack of maintenance. I understand that the department has done additional maintenance there, but there are still lots of bumps and grinds. Instead of us taking extra blankets and battery cables, we would take springs and shocks for us to equip our vehicle with. So they are very concerned about the deterioration of the winter road. This government putting some money into the winter roads would make it less painful for our people to go between communities.

We know industry has put some money into some of the roads, and there is a big difference between industry roads and government roads. They wanted me to bring this up to the Minister to see what could be done in terms of fixing up our goat trail that would make it into suitable winter roads in the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Menicoche.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, about a year ago, I brought to the attention of this House a proposal for a regional airline in Fort

Simpson. First Nation communities in my region have recognized an opportunity in the airline sector to capitalize on current economic and tourism development and growth to position themselves for the prospect of the Mackenzie gas project.

Mr. Speaker, this is a very exciting business opportunity for participating communities and the people in the Deh Cho. This business venture will be locally owned and controlled by the people of the region. They have developed a sound proposal and are hoping for the support of this government.

Unfortunately, Mr. Speaker, the government has yet to respond and offer their support. Time and time again, Ministers stand up in this House and talk about the importance of a secure economic future, building community capacity and opportunities for northern businesses in various economic sectors. All this sounds great and inspiring, but when there are no resources or funding attached to support locally-owned business to take advantage of any potential opportunities, where do they go when their own government won't support them?

Mr. Speaker, I am deeply concerned with the lack of support by the GNWT. The GNWT needs to recognize their responsibility to encourage northern businesses and aboriginal corporations. The window of opportunity here is large and the request is small. With just a little bit of assistance to get them off the ground, this is a company that really could take flight. Mahsi cho.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I would like to commit to the public record an accounting of what we are losing by the closure of the Dene K'onia Young Offenders Facility in Hay River.

Mr. Speaker, last week in the Legislative Assembly in the visitors' gallery we had present with us many of the laid-off workers from the Dene K'onia and many of you, as you mingled with them, know who they are. This facility opened in 1986, almost 20 years ago; it was the longest-operating young offenders facility in the Northwest Territories. The collective years of services of the 12 full-time and 10 casual employees are over 210 years of experience and service.

Mr. Speaker, this facility provided remand, secure custody and open custody for male and female young offenders over the years. They offered unique programming, a cultural program, which involved hunting and living on the land, including a lands program. Some of their programming was also related to youth achievement; for example, the young people would learn First Aid, CPR, things like small engine repair, and practical life skills. They would do community hours; they earned high school credits through this. Some of the kids that were in the facility did go to the public school and, those who couldn't, received their education through an educational program that was offered in house.

Mr. Speaker, over the years, this facility and these workers affected the lives of many young people and many families; not just in the South Slave region, but from across the Northwest Territories. They received things like drug and alcohol counselling through the trained staff. They received the services of a psychologist for things like anger management, individual and group counselling.

Mr. Speaker, 85 percent of these workers were aboriginal people and more than half of them had spent their entire life in the Northwest Territories. They provide a tremendous benefit to the community. The young people themselves were involved with support for community events; they did work in the summer and the winter for seniors. They had a contract where they picked up garbage on the highway, then they would use that money to put together Christmas shoeboxes for less fortunate children in other countries. They were given work experience opportunities through local businesses in Hay River.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. You may conclude your statement, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Mr. Speaker, besides the jobs that were created in Hay River from this facility and the community work that the staff was involved in, this facility also formed an integral part of our community. These young people volunteered at Woodland Manor in extended care. You would often see them out pushing wheelchairs for the elderly if they wanted to attend community events or parades. You would see these very young people out there contributing. They grew their own garden; they donated the food that they grew in their garden to the soup kitchen in Hay River.

Mr. Speaker, I want to speak just to the staff for a moment. They helped many young people and I would like to thank them on behalf of the people of Hay River, the South Slave and the Northwest Territories and on behalf of the kids who they helped. Mr. Speaker, what's happened here in terms of the change in government policy does not take away one bit from what they did for those young people and how they influenced their lives for good.

This government can take away their jobs, but they can never undo the value of what's been contributed by these people, and I will be continuing to work with them to ensure that their very valuable experience is put into good service for the people of the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Braden.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Following World War I, the Canadian government introduced some pretty stiff taxes to help pay for the war effort. Included in these were things like luxury cars, boats, clothes and jewellery,

Mr. Speaker. Over the years, those excise taxes have been removed on everything except jewellery. Now this excise tax costs us 10 percent of retail for any item over $3. It is hard to consider today, Mr. Speaker, that that can be considered a luxury tax. The information I have is that 50 percent of jewellery purchases are actually $100 and they are made by low and middle-income Canadians, Mr. Speaker, so there really doesn't seem to be much use for this tax to be around anymore.

Now, this is a pretty interesting piece of work for us here in the Northwest Territories as we look at growing a cutting and polishing industry, based on Canadian diamonds, Mr. Speaker.

I want to acknowledge today the work of a federal MP, Mr. John Duncan, the Progressive Conservative Member for Vancouver Island North, who has managed to get a private Members' bill through to second reading -- it's now before the Finance committee in Ottawa -- to get rid of this tax. It is something that we really should be getting behind and supporting. I know that the jewellery industry across Canada has been looking for this kind of action for many, many years. The elimination of this tax might result, from what I'm told, in something in the neighbourhood of an $80 million loss for the government. But let's put that up against the $500 million the government is now getting in revenues just from our diamond mining alone, Mr. Speaker, and that means that it's time to axe this tax. Thank you very much.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Nunakput, Mr. Pokiak.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Federal Ministers John Godfrey and Ethel Blondin-Andrew and territorial Minister Michael McLeod jointly announced new federal and territorial funding of $32 million for the municipal rural infrastructure fund and a further $90 million for highway projects, on January 18, 2005.

Mr. Speaker, my understanding of how this will work is that 55 percent of the fund is for non-tax-based communities and 45 percent is for tax-based communities. I applaud the federal and territorial governments on the recent announcement. However, we all know this funding is just the tip of the iceberg. Many communities need infrastructure and resources to address their requirements, especially non-tax-based communities, where we don't have the population to raise taxes or raise our own resource revenue shares.

With regard to the announcements for the funds for new highways, I listened with interest during the Finance Minister's budget address on how this money will be spent.

Mr. Speaker, the allocation of this new funding will, among other projects, include continuation of the completion of Highway No. 3 and the Ingraham Trail, not to mention 10 permanent bridges on the Mackenzie Valley winter road.

Mr. Speaker, I am disappointed that once again the Tuktoyaktuk-Inuvik highway has been left out of the vision of one Canada, that would bring people together from the east coast to the west coast and eventually to the Beaufort coast. Since 2003, a total of $63 million has been allocated to Corridors for Canada, without any funds allocated for the Tuktoyaktuk-Inuvik highway. This government should lobby for the connection of the Tuktoyaktuk-Inuvik highway to the Dempster Highway.

Mr. Speaker, my interpretation for the funding, as announced, is the new Highway Strategy should include the Tuktoyaktuk-Inuvik highway. This is new funding available for roads, et cetera. At the appropriate time I will address the question to the Minister of MACA and also the Minister of Transportation. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Pokiak. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, Mr. Villeneuve.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I rise to talk about some of the recent political developments that have taken place in my constituency; specifically the community of Lutselk'e over the past week. Currently, there is an interim committee put in place to oversee the operations of the Lutselk'e First Nations office and the band elections, which are slated to take place on February 24, 2005. A non-confidence vote brought forward by a majority of the band members last week to have the chief and council removed has been carried out. Now the members have to select a new chief and council.

Mr. Speaker, although actions such as this may seem hostile and retaliatory in nature, I would like to encourage my constituents to embrace this opportunity to learn and make some positive changes that will benefit the people, especially the youth. I hope, Mr. Speaker, that local developments such as this will teach everyone in the community a little about politics and how unpredictable, delicate, precarious and, at times, thankless a job can become for many people involved.

A good example of this was displayed here on this side of the House yesterday, if you recall, Mr. Speaker.

---Laughter

Mr. Speaker, myself being a new Member of this 15th Legislative Assembly, I have learned in the past year that things have to change and change is good. I support the residents of the Lutselk'e First Nations in addressing their issues with their leadership and the accountability concerns that they have in their financial management regime because these, I feel, are legitimate concerns and should not be construed as a personal attack toward anyone in the community.

In closing, Mr. Speaker, I would like to seek support from this government to assist the community of Lutselk'e in the pursuit of a fair, equitable and accountable First Nations community government that will reflect a positive light on the Akaitcho self-government negotiations taking

place between this government, the federal government and the First Nations groups. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Kam Lake, Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'd like to honour Mr. Whitford with his presence here today, the former Speaker of the House, Member of the House and Deputy Commissioner of the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. I'd also like to recognize a former Page in this House whose name escapes me right now, but is present in the gallery.

Vital Manuel.

Vital Manuel. Yes. Welcome to the House.

---Applause

Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise again one more time today to again solidify my stressful concern about the lack of doctors seeing patients. Mr. Speaker, there still are a few doctors seeing patients on a fee-for-service basis, but I'm concerned that switching to salary has not increased the number of visits per day. Would the Minister of Health and Social Services provide some information today to show or explain if we're getting better services per visit per patient in our system? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the issue of wait times in Yellowknife is one with a number of components. The Member is correct that when we switched from fee-for-service to salary, the number of patients seen did drop. We have added doctors. In addition, we're also looking at some of the other complexities; for example, the fact that the doctors are employees of the Yellowknife Health and Social Services Board, but spend the majority of their time working at Stanton. We're looking at how the emergency room is structured. We're looking at the possibility of integrating the three downtown clinics into one more efficient and effective clinic that will have the capacity to provide some of the basic clinic services that right now they can't, such as basic outpatient services, X-rays and such, that now they have to go to Stanton to get. This is an issue with many component pieces. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank you, Mr. Miltenberger, for first acknowledging the fact that it isn't quite working out as it may have been dreamt of. I'm glad to hear that we're trying to strive forward. Mr. Speaker, I have people in Yellowknife who cannot get a family doctor. I have people who are told by the clinics that they have to go wait in emergency and, if it's not of a life or death nature, they have to sit there between four and six hours because they're not considered a priority at emergency. Mr. Speaker, how does the Minister plan to address that type of problem? I'd like to hear the Minister tell me that they're working towards a type of legislation that would make sure that no person is refused a family doctor and that they're served in a reasonable time. How is the Minister addressing that problem? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we have a Collective Agreement with the Medical Association that's going to carry us into 2007-2008, but if I could just quickly reiterate some of the points that I gave in my last answer. We are looking at how emergency is currently structured, and the Member is correct, that it is estimated that anywhere from 40 to 50 percent of the people at emergency aren't really emergency patients; they could be seen in other areas such as in a clinic or by nurse practitioners. So we're looking at that and there's money in the budget for the renovation of Stanton, as well as the master plan which will look at how we structure the emergency ward. As I indicated, as well, we're also looking at the fact that we have three small, old, out-of-date clinics in the downtown that we're looking to consolidate into one more efficient and effective clinic; one that will hopefully have hours that go above and beyond 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I really appreciate that detailed answer, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Speaker, I still have the problem that the Minister has identified, that the present Collective Agreement goes to 2007-2008 and, of course, we're working on this year's 2004-2005 budget, so that's approximately three years. I've even heard rumours that the doctors want to switch from 20 patients a day down to 16 patients a day. He did say that they're looking at expanding the hours, but is there any way we can talk about shifting forward quickly about seeing these missed appointment opportunities?

We have constituents out there who do not have family doctors. How does the Minister envision that we could solve that problem right away, and can you answer the 16-patient per day question? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. I heard about three questions there. Mr. Miltenberger, you may answer one or three. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we have, as I've indicated, a number of initiatives underway that are going to address the quality of care and access issues in Yellowknife. With regard to the Member's assertion that he's heard this rumour, I'm not in a position in this House to speak to that rumour. I have not heard that. I know what arrangements we do have with the doctors and I do know all the many plans we have underway to address the quality of care in Yellowknife. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Final supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I respect the fact that the Minister doesn't want to talk about that subject, because it's out for bargaining or discussion on an informal basis. I can appreciate that, so I won't go into that. My last question is how does this Minister plan to address the fact that we still have families out there who can't get a family doctor? We could ask for 35 doctors coming to the city...

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. I heard a question there. Mr. Miltenberger.

Mr. Speaker, I'll just focus on reiterating one of the points that I raised, and that is that we are trying to come up with a blend at the clinic with the level of nurse practitioners, nurses and doctors that will help alleviate some of the waiting times and make access by patients to see the necessary medical people easier. We have a document in the works that will soon be coming forward through Cabinet and, hopefully, in the not-too-distant future to the Social Programs committee for discussion, that looks at how the hospitals and health centres are operating right now and some plans for improvements. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in my Member's statement today I talked about how I perceive the Dene K'onia Young Offenders Facility to have been a very major piece of the youth justice system in the Northwest Territories in helping young people who have come in contact with the legal system, with the court system, to get back on their feet and get reintegrated into their communities. Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister of Justice what the alternative plan is now for dealing with young offenders who are sentenced in the courts to serve time. Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The Minister of Justice, Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, for young offenders who are sentenced to custody through the courts, there has always been a range of options. One is if they're sentenced to the secure custody facility here in Yellowknife; it's available to house them. Typically what happens to offenders who are sentenced to secure custody, they go through that facility into an open custody facility and then move on into either a camp or a residential home. The goal is to try and integrate young offenders back into the community and move them as quickly as possible into a residential setting. What has happened is, with the numbers in custody over the last couple of years, we have a very limited number in open custody. Last week when I checked, we had six males in open custody, I believe, and with two facilities we couldn't justify keeping them both open. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, so you had two facilities: one completely staffed up with experienced people, operational; another one just finished being constructed, not staffed up, obviously newer people in those positions. What was the determining factor that made the choice between the two facilities to be that Yellowknife would be a facility open for open custody young offenders and that Hay River would be closed? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. One of the reasons, Mr. Speaker, was that the facility in Yellowknife is a combined facility. One half of it is for secure custody and the other is open custody. Because it is the only secure custody facility in the Northwest Territories, we can't close the facility down. So the level of savings that could be achieved by not operating the open side were not nearly the same as what could be achieved by closing a facility down completely. That was one of the reasons. The other was just the fact, as the Member noted, that one was newer than the other, and the issue of programming is one that the facility has been operating for nearly two years now in Yellowknife. The programming is of a similar nature to that offered at Dene K'onia and we can offer the same types of programming. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Minister has indicated previously that the number of young people who are sentenced to open custody facilities has been reduced by new legislation that has come into place with respect to youth justice. At this time, the populations and the numbers are lower; the census is lower than it has been in the past. Does the Minister not see this as a temporary situation and, if he did see this as a temporary situation, what's the contingency plan for when those numbers come up again after you've dismantled this key piece of infrastructure? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, if we look at all of the young offenders facilities that we have or the spaces that we have for young offenders right now, we're not anywhere near 50 percent occupancy. It will take some time before we get up to a level where we expect that we would need these facilities again. Whether it's two years, five years or 10 years, I can't predict how long it's going to be before we need more facilities. I would hope that we never need more facilities, but, if we do, then we can deal with that through either the provision of homes for young offenders, which is one of the preferred options. If necessary, we can even look at building a group home, which may be another option, and it was something that the Department of Justice proposed two or three years ago to replace Dene K'onia with in Hay River. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Final supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, so is the Minister saying that if the group home facility had been built in Hay River, that we would have an open custody facility operating in Hay River today? Because I look at the young offenders at Dene K'onia and it's a very similar layout and building type to any group home that I've ever seen. So when the Minister brings that up, is it to say that if they had built that facility that it would be open and operating today, and that with Dene K'onia we would not have seen the complete loss of this facility and these jobs in Hay River? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. No, that wasn't the intent when I said that. I have no way of knowing what might have happened if there were different facilities in place. We've worked entirely on what was in place. My point was that a group home is not an expensive facility to build. It doesn't need to have security. It's basically a family home type of setting. So it is something that isn't expensive to add to the inventory if it's ever needed, in comparison to a facility like the open custody facility we have here in Yellowknife. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in my Member's statement today I talked about the winter road in the Sahtu, the goat road we have up in the Sahtu. I think I'm going to ask some questions to the Minister. The Minister is aware of the concerns. He was in the Sahtu several times and has seen the road conditions. An official of his office made a commitment at a public meeting in the Sahtu several weeks ago, to travel that winter road and to make an assessment of the conditions. My question is for the Minister of Transportation. Will the Minister please provide the results of the recent assessment of the winter road in the Sahtu? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. The honourable Minister of Transportation, Mr. McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I want to make it clear that we don't provide funding for goat trails. We do, however, maintain the Mackenzie Valley winter road, and there has been concern raised over the section from Tulita to Norman Wells. We did have a number of meetings over the last while with the MLA and also with the community of Norman Wells, and we've had some written correspondence over the issue. We have looked at the condition of the road. We realize that we do not have the same level of maintenance and investment in this road as we had when we partnered up with industry for the last couple of years. We continue to do so in other sections. The Wrigley to Tulita road we have industry investing dollars there, and it has brought the road to a higher standard than we normally would maintain it; and also from Norman Wells to Colville Lake and Fort Good Hope. The conditions are a lot better than they normally are. We have increased our maintenance. We have looked at the road and we have decided that we should increase the maintenance on this road. We're also reviewing our plans in terms of if our funding allocation for this section is still adequate, considering we don't have a key player or industry investing in this section anymore. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Minister touched on a key point of our winter roads and I hope that our goat road does become an acceptable highway system in the Northwest Territories. But the industry has used our winter roads quite a bit and, as you know, Mr. Speaker, It takes between 80 and 90 truckloads to haul a rig here and that we need to get the industry involved. I want to ask the Minister if he could please

explain why the department is unable to reach an agreement with the industry, thus leaving the GNWT solely responsible for the cost of maintenance of the road even though it's being used a lot by industry. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. McLeod.

Mr. Speaker, we do have discussions with industry on a regular basis. We have had a number of discussions over this past winter and previous winters but, at the end of the day, we cannot force industry to invest in a road that they're not likely to use. In this case, the road from Tulita to Norman Wells is not one that industry felt they were going to be using for the majority of the rig moves. A lot of the rigs were moved over last winter into Norman Wells or over the summer on the barging system. So there was no requirement for them to invest money and upgrade this road, so it fell under our responsibility to maintain this road with our dollars that were budgeted.

Again, we have looked at a number of initiatives to see if we can improve the safety factors on this road. After several discussions with the people in the communities of Tulita, Norman Wells and the people of the Sahtu, we have allocated and budgeted for signs. We're putting a number of signs on that road. I believe the number is 650 signs that we're going to be putting up and are putting up as we speak to improve the safety factor. We're also setting up a series of meetings and we're going to be unveiling or having discussions about the possibility of instituting a speed limit on that road to improve the safety factor. We have also increased our highway patrols into that area and we continue to do so.

There are a number of initiatives that we have provided for this section of road. If there is still a concern regarding the condition, I want to assure the Member that we are looking at the allocated maintenance budget for this road. However, upon our inspections -- and we do them regularly; our highway superintendent performs them regularly -- they tell us the road is safe, provided you drive at a safe speed limit and you obey all the signs that are being put up right now. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Holy cow!

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the phone call I received this afternoon said that motorists are going about 20 kilometres an hour on the roads in the Sahtu. That's how bad they are. Also, the safety, Mr. Speaker, is a concern because I lost a close personal friend on that road several years ago with regard to the safety. I want to ask the Minister what he will do to ensure some type of negotiations for partnerships with industry for next year, to ensure there is much done to improve the winter roads in the Sahtu. I know you're not able to force industry, but I think if you can assure the people in the Sahtu that some sort of partnership can be formed with them to ensure that the safety and conditions of the road are just like any other road in the territory. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it should be clear that for most of the sections in the Sahtu area, the safety factor and the conditions have increased drastically as we now have industry investing in those sections. There is only one section of the road that is of concern that we've been hearing about and that's the section from Tulita to Norman Wells. We have increased and doubled our maintenance on that road, we've provided signs, we're going to incorporate speed limits, we're sending contract crews out, and we're actually doing some specific spotting on that road. We've looked at the bypass in the Norman Wells area. We've done a number of things. We're also planning to spend $34 million in that area. How many more things can we incorporate? I'm not sure, but I want to assure the Member again that we are looking at this section of road; we are looking at our budget to see if we can do anything different for next year. We'll continue to talk with industry; however, we can't force them to spend money in an area that they're not using. I will certainly commit to having those discussions with industry and keep up the pressure to help us pay for some of those roads and improve the conditions. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

A very short supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Running the clock.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, industry, I understand, spends millions and millions of dollars in the Sahtu. They want to come do business in the Sahtu. They're using the roads. I think that's part of where our government can negotiate with industry and say that they should bring some benefits and bring in some of the safety into the Sahtu. So I guess I would ask the Minister if he would look at coming to visit the Sahtu and see the conditions of the winter roads for himself. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. A short answer, Mr. McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Sahtu is probably one of the regions that I've visited the most often in the last year as the Minister. I've been there three times and we're planning to go there again. We are, along with the Premier, planning to drive the winter road all the way to Norman Wells in the next couple of weeks. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Kam Lake, Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'll pick up where I left off with my statement. That is questions regarding the Deton'Cho access to the area known as the sandpits here in the city of Yellowknife, within the municipal boundaries of the city of Yellowknife. The first question I'd like to ask the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs is how that decision was arrived at. I'm wondering if the decision to grant access to the sandpits was a decision made solely by the Minister of MACA or was it a Cabinet decision. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The honourable Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, that decision was made by myself as the Minister of MACA. We've had some discussion with Aboriginal Affairs; however, that decision was mine. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd like to ask the Minister today how close Deton'Cho Corporation is to actually proceeding with the housing development at the area known as the sandpits here in the city of Yellowknife. I know under the agreement that he's given permission for it to July 31st, but through reputable sources, Mr. Speaker, they're very close to proceeding with a 400-unit housing development at the sandpits and I'd like to ask the Minister what information he has with regard to that development. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm not sure how close they are to proceeding with development. Our involvement has been to try and facilitate a process dealing with lands in Yellowknife. There has been an application made to the City of Yellowknife for a section of land in the sandpits area. We've had some discussions with the Yellowknives Dene. We've also had some discussions with the City of Yellowknife. We've indicated to those groups that we needed to see all the development plans come forward because, along with the City of Yellowknife development plan, we have the Yellowknives Dene First Nation's development plan, the Department of Transportation has an airport development plan, and we have the Akaitcho land claim negotiations land selections going on. So all these things are in the process, in the works. There's a lot of overlap. We're trying to develop a system that will allow us to process some of these applications. I know that the City of Yellowknife and the Yellowknives were meeting. I believe their staff were meeting yesterday. The City of Yellowknife wants to have a discussion and hear their presentation with their counsel on what the Yellowknives are planning to do. That application has not come to us, Mr. Speaker. They're having some discussions between the City of Yellowknife and the Yellowknives and they're reviewing a number of things, including how this would fit with the City of Yellowknife's development plans, including the zoning. So there are a number of things that need to be discussed and, up until now, the only thing we've done is to allow the Yellowknives access to the sandpits area to do some geophysical work and do some engineering studies and that's the limit of our involvement, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'm glad to hear that the Minister is on top of what is transpiring out there, by the sounds of it. The other question I'd like to ask is how a decision like that, made by the Minister, impacts the IMA that's in place currently between the Yellowknives Dene and the City of Yellowknife and his department. To me, it goes against the protocols as set out in the IMA, to just grant access to the Yellowknives Dene to access the sandpits. Maybe the Minister could speak to the IMA and what impact or precedent this sets going forward. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the IMA refers to occupancy. This was a request that came in to do some early assessment. If the land is not suitable, the Yellowknives Dene informed us and are informing the City of Yellowknife that they will move away from that project. However, there are a number of other sites that the Yellowknives Dene are interested in, and the City of Yellowknife is looking at acquiring more land for the growth of the city. So we have to have a system that's put in place. In my own judgment, I made the call that we should issue a permission to occupy. There is no requirement under the IMA to consult with anybody. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Your final supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, one quick, final supplementary. I'm just wondering if the Minister can confirm for us whether or not he believes a residential development that close in proximity to the Yellowknife Airport is something that he would support. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, if the City of Yellowknife agrees, the

Yellowknives Dene agrees, and if it fits within the Department of Transportation's plan overall, I certainly would support it. We have a lot of work to do yet on this issue. We have to have a lot of discussion. We have to develop a process where everybody is satisfied that their interests are being taken care of and that's what my focus is right now. We're nowhere near approving anybody's applications. There are a number of applications out there that we have to deal with. At this point we have granted permission to do some early seismic work in that area; that's what it is limited to. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Menicoche.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions today are for the Minister of RWED, with regard to the Nahendeh Air proposal. It was submitted to his office about a year ago, Mr. Speaker, and we're failing to understand why it's taking so long to get government support for this program. To date, we've got the businesses on side, we've got the communities on side, we've got the regional people on side, we have federal support and yet nothing is forthcoming from the GNWT RWED department. I fail to understand what exactly we're waiting for, Mr. Speaker. I would like the Minister of RWED to tell me and, indeed, the public, what's taking so long for this Nahendeh Air proposal to be supported by our government. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. The honourable Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to assure the Member that the department is supportive of initiatives like this. The Member knows that we did fund $20,000 to the consortium of six bands who were looking at purchasing both Wolverine and Simpson Air and amalgamating and creating Nahendeh Air. There was $20,000 a couple of years ago to develop business planning. Our suggestion is that the next steps need to be an application, probably to us, for funding to further review this proposal and add some detail to it. We think there needs to be some refinement of detail; we've had that discussion with the consortium.

Our understanding is, as is the Member's, I believe, that Chief Norwegian is the lead on this. We think that there are other funding partners like INAC, Aboriginal Business Canada, and we've identified those. Our regional staff have been in discussions with Aboriginal Business Canada to see if they would be receptive to receiving the business plan and considering it. Of course, we can't forward that business plan; that has to come from Chief Norwegian. They've indicated they would be receptive, but it would require a transmittal from Chief Norwegian and they have informed us that they have not received that.

I think there are some other funding partners potentially waiting in the wings, and we're hopeful that that business plan will be forwarded. But I think this highlights the need for us to ensure there are good communications between ourselves, our regional office and the consortium of six bands and, principally, Chief Norwegian on this issue so that we can move it forward. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Supplementary, Mr. Menicoche.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Well, it has been over a year, Mr. Speaker, since the business plan has been completed and the request has been in the department, and we've asked time and time again for their assistance and to keep this moving forward. It is a time sensitive issue, as one of the interested parties is willing to sell outside the region and that's not something the community or the region wants, Mr. Speaker. So I would like to get the Minister's assurance, Mr. Speaker, that he will continue from hereon in a time sensitive manner and secure and assure the consortium that the government is behind them, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. Bell.

I can give the Member and the consortium that assurance here today. We think that this is an absolutely perfect way for the region to be able to take care of some of the business opportunities that are going to come their way. Lots of activity will be forthcoming because of the development in the regions, and it would be an absolute shame to see that business go to southern businesses. I'm also aware of the Member's recent request for some help in order to further cement an expression of interest with one of the proponents. We had hoped that the business proposal would be finalized, the details could be flushed out, so that we could make a decision on a business case. I hear the Member saying that it is very time sensitive. So I'll have to consider that when making a decision on whether or not we're prepared to forward funds to one of the proponents in order to ensure that they are willing to wait until we have this proposal finalized. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Supplementary, Mr. Menicoche.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm just curious as to the process the department used over the past year to help this Nahendeh Air proposal move forward. Earlier last year I spoke and said let's get somebody from the department identified to work with the groups, to help them through the proposal stages, and at this time I'm here again asking the department look, there was a process here, we asked for your assistance. What happened on your end because from the community level, from the proponent's side, they are doing the best that they can, Mr. Speaker? Will the Minister continue his assurance that he will help the proponents fill out the proposal and get them to the department so that they can act and make the best decisions possible? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We will continue to work with the region and I will ensure that my department knows that this is of highest priority. I could take the Member through our understanding of the timeline and the various steps and the correspondence back and forth and the discussions between our department and the consortium. I don't know if that would be helpful. That's my perspective, standing here today. Clearly, from the Member's line of questioning, that would not be shared by Chief Norwegian and by the consortium. So I'm willing to sit down and discuss this with the Member. I can show him the information that I have, but this is of highest priority and we will move forward. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Final supplementary, Mr. Menicoche.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm glad to hear the Minister speak about it being a high priority, because it is, indeed, a high priority for the communities because deal breaking is imminent and I don't want to see this deal fall through. It doesn't make our government look good when you have the opportunity to create a deal and then we miss that opportunity. It already happened once, as my honourable colleagues keep speaking about, and I don't want to see this happen in our region, particularly something of this much importance that has the backing of all the chiefs, of all the communities, of all the regional members. I strongly believe and I strongly think that our government should continue and make this dream a reality for the Nahendeh Air proposal. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. I didn't hear a question there. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions this afternoon are for the Honourable Brendan Bell, the Minister of RWED and responsible for the GNWT's diamond file. One estimate has it, Mr. Speaker, that some 200 people, including families, are involved in the sorting and cutting and polishing industry here in Yellowknife, using Canadian diamonds to make Canadian jewellery. But if you want to go and buy this, you have to pay 10 percent more than anywhere else in the world and that's not really a very good situation. My question, Mr. Speaker, is has our government considered John Duncan's private Member's bill in Parliament -- Bill C-259 -- and are we in support of it? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.