Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Bell.

Thank you. I do agree that you can follow the money. You can follow the positions, and you can find what a government's priorities are. Clearly, we have made this as a priority of this government because we don't feel that we have the capacity specifically in the regions to be able to respond to development challenges and to be able to ensure that we are doing everything we can to make sure we are protecting our wildlife and the environment as development becomes a reality. So I don't look to the creation of five new superintendents and suggest that everybody is going to work half as much. I think what we've recognized for some time is that people are moving at full speed. Our superintendents were being asked to do a lot. I believe that there is a lot that they are unable to do. I think there will be further additional challenges and pressures that we have to be ready to respond to. I don't think we can compare a gym in Nahanni Butte to spending in this department. I think you have to recognize and acknowledge that we have a role and a duty to play in making sure people in all of the regions are able to take advantage of the opportunities that are coming their way. That means we need additional support for business. We need additional support for would-be entrepreneurs in regions to make sure that people can take advantage of business opportunities. That requires capacity in the regions. That is what this is about. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Bell. Next on the list for general comments is Mr. Pokiak.

Thank you, Madam Chair. My general comments are going to speak on terms of tourism right now. In the Beaufort-Delta, it is really important when industry comes in the summertime. There are a lot of people who drive up on the highway and end up in Inuvik. After Inuvik, they don't have anywhere to go except fly to Tuktoyaktuk. Like I say, for a lot of my constituents back home, they are involved with tourism. They do have a good tourism business going, both in Inuvik and in Tuktoyaktuk and also in Paulatuk. I am just wondering, Madam Chair, with regard to that, I know it is a big dream, but one of these years, I hope that we can get that Tuk-Inuvik highway. Then they will be able to drive all the way to Tuktoyaktuk and bring more money into the communities. I wish the Minister can sit down with his colleague in the Transportation department and look at something like that. I am not too sure if it is the right place to put it, but I will bring that out anyway, Madam Chair.

Also, with regard to the Mackenzie Valley pipeline office, I, too, am sort of disappointed that it is not up and running right now. I think I heard the Minister speak earlier that there is one person that is presently being looked at for communications. Correct me if I am wrong, Madam Chair, through the Minister. If I understand correctly, there is a communications person that is going to be going down to Hay River shortly. At the present time, also, I understand that the office that is supposed to be in place now, they are still looking for office space or it's actually being built. I am just wondering, Madam Chair. It is too bad right now we are in the process where I received information and am going to bring it up again, Madam Chair. Inuvik is prepared to handle this kind of situation. My understanding is that there is office space available up there. If things don't happen by April 1st, will the Minister consider the option of looking at the Beaufort-Delta Mackenzie Valley pipeline office? I, too, am sort of disappointed, Madam Chair, with regard to the restructuring of it although I like the idea. Some of my colleagues spoke earlier about the cost of it, but, again, I wouldn't dwell too much with that because I am just going to touch on things I would like to bring out; mainly the tourism and also the Mackenzie Valley pipeline office. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Pokiak. Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Madam Chair. First, to tourism in the Beaufort-Delta. I think it is not only specific to that region, but we do know that the more infrastructure investments we are able to make, the more successful our tourism industry will be. I would acknowledge that it is difficult for the Member's communities -- Tuktoyaktuk, Paulatuk, Holman and Sachs -- with their limited access. I would acknowledge that it is expensive for people to fly into these communities in order to be able to spend tourism dollars. That is an additional challenge for tourism operators when they are sitting down to develop product. As the Member knows, we continue to have discussions as an Assembly and as a Cabinet on our funding priorities around infrastructure. I know that my Cabinet colleagues and the Minister of Transportation have heard the Member's comments and, I am sure, considering them right now in relation to the road from Inuvik to Tuktoyaktuk.

The Member also raised some concerns and wants some clarification around the Mackenzie Valley pipeline office. We have hired a communication officer who is currently employed here temporarily and moving this month to Hay River. There is office space. I didn't mean to mislead Members. There is office space already constructed in Hay River. What we are doing is having tenant improvements made. Public Works has handled that process for us. It has been contracted out and should be ready, we are told, by the end of March and will be fitted up and ready for those offices.

This really amounts to phase one in terms of our government's response to resourcing oil and gas. This is only the first phase, only the first approach we have taken here. I think we need to do more. I have asked the department to go back and look at options for adequately resourcing our oil and gas response in the valley. I think that is what I would like to focus my efforts on now, instead of talking about moving our already limited resources around. I think we know we need this capability on behalf of this government. We feel it is adequately located in Hay River and are very optimistic about the role this office will play, but would acknowledge that we need to look to future resourcing in other communities in the valley as well. I want to assure the Member that we certainly haven't forgotten about that. I have tasked the department with coming back with some options. I will certainly be prepared to sit down and discuss those with committee at that point. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Bell. Next on the list for general comments is Mr. Braden, and then Mr. Menicoche. Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Madam Chair. In looking at these two departments, Madam Chair, I am not part of the economic standing committee; so much of what I am doing is from a sort of a more general level. I am not into the detail. One of the things that I wanted to touch on here was the reason that these two portfolios were brought together and now the reason that we are taking them apart...the conservation protection mandate as opposed to the development exploitation mandate. I am very supportive of the separation even to the point of view where, if I am going to be contradicting a couple of my colleagues where it may certainly be regrettable or unfortunate that we actually have to spend some more money to do this. Madam Chair, one of the things we should accept is that this is an extremely complex economy. It is one of the fastest growing and most diverse in Canada. I do not regret or I really have no objection to, in reasonable measure, spending some more money to make sure that, administratively, the jobs are handled properly. If we could have avoided it, it would have been great, but I don't object to the increment that we are showing here.

But more to the point, Madam Chair, I guess, in terms of looking at the vision and the mission and the goal statements, these are things that are important to me because they help set out the philosophy and drive and the purpose and the delivery of what these new agencies are going to do for us. I must say that the vision of this new department, as set out in the book here, is quite a conservative piece of work, Madam Chair. Perhaps I had an assumption or an expectation that this Department of Industry, Tourism and Investment would sort of be the cheerleader for the Northwest Territories; the rah, rah we want to get out there and get the dollars working. We want to make sure they go in the right place. We are going to be the leaders and the pacesetters of economic development and diversification in the NWT. But if we read the vision statement, as is put down on the main estimates here, our sustainable and diverse economy will be built on the strengths of self-reliance and the wise use of natural resources, and incorporates traditional lifestyles with a modern economy for a long-term viability and benefit of our children and our future. It is the most politically correct mission statement. It has a lot of buzz words. It has all the politically correct stuff all jammed into one. It really waters down, for me, what could have been or could be a really crisp, clean message about the importance we put on attracting and building good investment here. As I say, this is an awfully conservative statement of what this department believes it should be doing.

Maybe I will just leave it there and see if the Minister has any response to that. In this particular area, I wanted to reflect, Madam Chair, that, for me, this department is coming up a bit short -- quite short, in fact -- on the tone and the type of message that I believe it could be coming out with. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Member, for the input. A little bit of history. I believe it was probably fiscal year 1996, 1997; we are trying to remember. At that point, we had three departments that handled the mandates that you now see in existing RWED. Renewable Resources is one. Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources and then Economic Development and Tourism. At the time that those three were amalgamated into one department, it was largely a cost-saving exercise and I think one that saved the government somewhere in the neighbourhood of a $7million or $8 million one-time savings. I think at that point it was a good decision. We needed to save the money. We didn't have the kind of development pressures then that we do today. We weren't faced then with the same types of challenges in terms of the conservation and protection mandate, as Mr. Braden has indicated, and the need to develop our resources. I think we are much more challenged today to be able to carry out the functions that we have in front of us and the mandates that we have in front of us as one department. I think we have the further challenge of recognizing, from the Prime Minister's commitment, that somewhere two years on the horizon, we will be looking at hopefully devolution and greater control over lands and resources and the responsibility falling to this government and to aboriginal governments. We have to ensure that we will be devolution ready. That is going to be a challenge in the next two years because, certainly, I don't want to give the expectation that you can take those additional mandates and, lock stock and barrel, transfer them into these existing two departments. The framework is here. Now it is important that we develop that and make ourselves devolution ready.

I appreciate the Member's comments. Maybe we were too conservative in writing about the vision of this new department. I think the Member has laid it out very nicely. We should look to be leaders. We should look to be pacesetters in creating this new economy for the North. I think that the kinds of things he is speaking about are the kinds of things that are well articulated in the Northern Strategy, which the Premier is leading on our behalf. I

certainly appreciate the support. I know we have been to the committee with some discussion around the new establishment policies for the two departments. We look forward to their feedback in that regard. Again, I appreciate the Member's support. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Bell. Mr. Braden.

Thank you. The Minister is giving me a lead into a couple of areas here. He talked about devolution. Another assumption of mine, not having been party to all that much discussion about where this new shop was going, is this department of ITI going to be the receptor for the transfer of resource responsibility as that job is devolved from Northern Affairs? Is this department the natural place that we are going to look to to receive this mandate? Has the planning and the thinking gone that far? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Bell.

Thank you. Thank you, Member, for the question. I think that the primary receiving department would more likely be ENR for most matters that we are looking to gain control over, but ITI does play a role, obviously, in oil and gas and the devolution of those responsibilities. Essentially, much of what DIAND does in the Northwest Territories will be coming not only to this government but to aboriginal governments as well. We have to figure out how in the next couple of years, obviously. That is the challenge that has been thrown to us, how to adequately structure ourselves to take on these new responsibilities. We have some work to do there. I think that, on behalf of this government, ENR would be the recipient of more of that mandate and role, but ITI certainly as well, so the two of them. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Next on the list I have Mr. Menicoche for general comments.

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Just with respect to what is going on in the Nahendeh riding in regard to development and the fact that the Deh Cho region, of course, is like a political hotbed when it comes to the Mackenzie Valley gas pipeline project. I believe that our government can help a bit if we do something I keep bringing up with regard to our pipeline office is that, if we establish a senior position in Fort Simpson, it will help our government establish with the residents and with the region that, yes, you have an interest, we have someone here you can talk with. I think just being exposed to the community and to the region is one of the key things that I supported in the creation of this position in Fort Simpson. The whole concept of our pipeline project office is coordination of government of departments. What I am getting in the region as I travel is that people are saying, well, who is the contact for the Social Services department? Who is the lead on their committees? I am saying that I don't really know, but, if we did have someone from our pipeline committee established in Fort Simpson, I assume that would have been the role is to know the internal workings of the government committees. Correct me if I am wrong. I am assuming that Transportation have their own internal committee of how the pipeline project is going to impact their department, as well as ECE. I am thinking that is the role of this position. If I narrow it down, Madam Chair, I think it is more like an ombudsman of where people go to this position and inquire about how our government fits in or what department is acting on what aspects of their internal workings, as well as it provides a share of information between government industry and the communities like the Village of Fort Simpson. They certainly have a big stake in the development of the pipeline project. That is kind of where I see this position going, Madam Chair, like an ombudsman type position. With that, Madam Chair, if the Minister can answer for me, what is his department doing in terms of this concept of establishing the position in Fort Simpson as related to the pipeline office? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I thank the Member for the questions. As I mentioned earlier, we are, and I have to ask the department with looking at resourcing options up and down the valley. Even prior to that, the points that the Member is making are points that we have had a lot of discussion around. In the Nahendeh region, we have been admittedly challenged to fill some of our existing positions. I want to assure the Member and his constituents that we are working very diligently to do that and will ensure that we have those positions that aren't currently filled as quickly as we can. The regional petroleum advisor was a position that has been unfilled for some time.

The Member's point about a senior position in the region that would focus on oil and gas, the Member knows ITI really will have the lead coordinating role now for oil and gas development. I think this was one of the discussions we had. We have a regional petroleum advisor. When we can have that staffed, it will report now to a new position. That new position will be the additional superintendent that we have created; the new superintendent for ITI. That person will play a coordinating role on behalf of our government's responsibilities related to oil and gas development in the region. Reporting to that superintendent will be the RPA, regional petroleum advisor, that we are trying to staff. Having said that, as I have already mentioned, we are looking at other resourcing options up and down the valley because we do recognize the communities are challenged with all of the activity. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Mr. Menicoche.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Just on a related topic with respect to the Mackenzie Valley gas pipeline project, our government is underway on the initial stages of developing a socioeconomic impact agreement. Perhaps the Minister can let me know at what stage they are at with this, because some of the input that I am getting back from the communities is that, hey, we want a say in how our government develops a socioeconomic agreement. We want input. So I am thinking, okay, are we going to do some public consultation as to the type of socioeconomic agreement we are going to have? I see it like a growing thing, Madam Chair. Particularly, the first pipeline project with Norman Wells, with Imperial, at that time, is that we did have a socioeconomic agreement there but it lacked teeth. I think that is the word we are using these days. It lacked any bite. It was just kind of there saying, okay, you guys be nice to communities. They did it for a few years and then started withdrawing

services and helping out the communities. Nobody ever said anything. Okay, well, we will keep taking away services from the communities. Pretty soon, they are just there and they are not doing anything for our communities. The Enbridge pipeline now is just there. It has jobs and they are buying some materials from the communities, but if you really look at it, they are not providing any impact benefits at all. It has been there for almost 20 years. I still think that they got it for free. Industry sees that and they want this next pipeline project for free, too. I am not going to give it to them. I will do everything I can to stand in the way to make sure that our communities benefit today and for the long term. Just learning from our experience too from the diamond resources, our socioeconomic agreements have some bite but maybe not enough. This new socioeconomic agreement that our government is obligated to negotiate with them -- RWED or ITI being the lead department on this -- I would like to see something firm, something solid for our future. I will just leave that with you, Madam Chairperson. I would like the Minister to comment upon where we are going with our socioeconomic agreement, in terms of the Mackenzie Valley gas pipeline project. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. There are a number of parts to the point that the Member is making here related to benefits. Our socioeconomic agreement negotiations affect benefit and access negotiations with the claimant organizations. I think he is making the point that we have certainly heard as we have traveled in communities. I have been in Inuvik now and around the process in the forum that MACA and RWED shared in Norman Wells. As well, I look forward to discussions in Fort Simpson.

I think that the main point for us to make is that we do believe the socioeconomic agreements, by and large, have been very successful, in terms of the diamond mines. If you look at the business opportunities that have been generated, if you look at the massive employment for northerners that has been created and the huge shot in the arm to the territorial economy that has come because of benefits being left here in the North, I think that you get the bigger picture of the extent of the benefit of the socioeconomic agreement.

Yes, we are working through this and are trying to find support for value-added industry. I think, as there was discussion in the House today, we have got some work there to discuss how we can more broadly support that industry, and we are prepared to do that. By and large, these socioeconomic agreements have been, I believe, a huge success and you have seen these mines leave major benefits in the North.

Currently underway in the pipeline project is the environmental impact statement review, and we are certainly paying attention to all of the interventions that are being made. We are using that intervention process to understand the kinds of things that we need to ensure that we focus on, as and when we are creating the socioeconomic agreement. Additionally, we are taking our direction from the Joint Cabinet/AOC Pipeline Planning Committee, and we do expect that Members are in constant touch with their communities and constituents and can provide us the kind of feedback we need.

That work is being done, we are coordinating with departments and soliciting their departmental input to better understand the various different aspects of the socioeconomic agreement. I don't think we can forget the benefit and access negotiations currently underway with claimant organizations. This government has been involved with industry and with the federal government in funding some of these discussions, through the RPDP program, Resource Pre-development Program, that was recently -- in the last couple of months, I think -- announced.

We are doing a number of things and our Joint Cabinet/AOC Pipeline Planning Committee will continue to do consultation, will continue work with its membership and with the various different line departments to ensure we come up with the best socioeconomic agreement possible. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. On the list, I have Mr. McLeod.