Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Madam Chair, to my left I have Jeff Anderson, the chief financial officer; to my right I have Mr. Fred Koe, the president of the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Do Members have any general comments with respect to the NWT Housing Corporation? Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to say thank you to the Social Programs committee for their review of the Housing Corporation. I have attended a couple information sessions that Social Programs had put on with the Minister and his staff, with regard to the market housing initiative, and they were very informative and I thank the chair of the Social Programs committee for letting other Members attend those.

The one question that I have, and I'm not sure if the Minister and his staff have this readily available tonight, but what is the exact dollar figure that gets spent on actual on-the-ground housing in communities of your entire budget, and what dollar amount is on administrative overhead? I'm not sure if the Minister has that or if he can break that down percentage-wise and in a rough dollar estimate; that would be a good start. Thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Madam Chairperson, the breakdown in regard to the overall administration cost is seven percent Yellowknife/headquarters, six percent at the regional operations, and 86 percent in communities.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. I would be looking for a little bit more detail. What I am looking for is the actual dollar figures that go into building homes in communities. Aside from the administrative side of things, if the Minister could, and I don't need that information today, I am wondering if he could provide that to me at a later date. That would be fine. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Krutko.

I believe that once we go through the main estimates, it will be identified on page 8-30 of our budget. Again, as the Member mentioned, it is important to realize that, as I mentioned in my opening remarks, we're spending well in excess $33 million on housing construction this year. We are hoping to deliver some 158 units into our communities. Almost one-third of our budget, excluding the social funding aspect, goes into communities by way of construction of new units.

These are the number of units we are looking at constructing this year. We are expending almost $33 million in that area. In order to meet the demands we have out there, we have to start spending more money on infrastructure, but also realizing that we have to be open minded, that in order for us to meet the goals that we have, there have been motions passed in this House, but also looking at our needs survey, we are well in excess of 1,100 units and we need just to bring our needs survey down below 30 percent.

With the change in the corporation, looking at our mandate, we are starting to restructure ourselves so we are more delivery oriented, ensuring that we have capacity at communities and within the regions to ensure that we are able to deliver these housing programs and also bring down those needs numbers well below 30 percent. That is probably one of the bigger challenges we are facing going forward. By putting 158 units into communities in this fiscal budget is a start; but in order to meet the requirement we are looking for, we are going to need a major influx of capital by way of the federal government or through partnerships or through developing a community arrangement with aboriginal organizations.

We have been looking at those types of agreements, but I think that is something that we have to work at. It is something that, as a government and also as Members realize, through debates in this House and motions passed here in Committee of the Whole, identify the housing crisis that we find ourselves in but also finding unique ways to get out of it. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. I agree with the Minister and I want to support him and his staff in trying to get some more, obviously, much-needed housing into the communities. There is a lot of need out there and the Minister has identified some of the need.

The Minister also mentioned the number $33 million which is roughly what I think goes directly into building houses or providing housing into the communities in the Northwest Territories. If you take a look at it from a different approach, we have a department like the Executive, for example, where we spend just under $50 million. That is a tremendous amount of money in a department like the Executive, when in actual fact the Government of the Northwest Territories is only spending $33 million on housing; an essential need of the citizens here in the Northwest Territories.

Again, I think it goes back to priorities and the Minister is correct; he does need some support to try to get an influx of capital to try to get some of these addressed. I just wanted to let the Minister know that I am willing to work with him and the Housing Corporation in trying to make that happen and redefine some of our priorities here, and our spending, because it does not line up the way I believe it possibly could be or should be.

I just wanted to finish off with a comment on the market housing initiative. I know the intentions were good. It hasn't come off as well as Regular Members would have hoped. That is kind of a shame. The problem in it that I see, and I mentioned this when we had the meeting, when the Minister was before the Social Programs committee, in talking to deputy ministers and talking to other bureaucrats about whether or not there is a need in a community is one thing. Before something happens, you have to talk to the people that are actually going to be in the unit, the tenants.

I don't know if that happened in this case, where there are still a number of units that are vacant. I think the Minister was onto the right kind of thing to be doing, but I just don't believe the homework was done on trying to get us there. The Minister has got his hands full on trying to find some money and there are some of us Regular Members on this side of the House that, hopefully, we can try to find him some more money for the much-needed housing problem that faces the North. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. I think we do have to find new initiatives. Market housing is one component; but what we have to realize is the challenge that we are facing and where we are trying to go, is to try to find affordable, adequate and suitable housing. I think the keyword is affordable.

We see a lot of people who are middleclass people and low-income people having to depend on social housing to such a degree that it is having an impact on housing programs across the Territories. In order for us to be able to meet that challenge, we have to find ways of bringing down the cost of housing, but also doing it in such a way that, at the end of the day, it is affordable to people; looking at unique ways of constructing and looking at new energy-efficient homes to bring down the costs and also ensuring that we have the resources by way of program resources.

We have talked about spending well in excess of $12 million just on access programs, IHP programs, to make sure that people are able to get into homeownership. Again, that is a challenge we are all facing. The other big challenge we are facing in the North, that we all realize is out there, is just trying to find the labour force to deliver a lot of these projects in our communities, by realizing that we have a high cost of construction in just trying to find people to construct a lot of these units.

That is why it is important that we develop that capacity, but also realizing that we have to find unique ways of working with CMHC, the federal Minister of Housing and also looking at the partners that we have in the Northwest Territories.

I am presently working fairly closely with Bill Erasmus, who is developing a housing strategy for aboriginal communities in the Northwest Territories. Through our shop and in working with Billy's people, we are pulling this information together so that when they go to the federal government or we go to the federal government, we have information that is consistent. It doesn't matter if it's coming from ourselves as government or an aboriginal organization, we still represent the same people.

The more resources we get, regardless of how get it here, the better off we will be at the end of the day to ensure that we are able to deliver these housing programs in the Northwest Territories. We have to be opened minded to ensure that we start looking at who else is out there and also how we can build these partnerships. Again, we have to send a message to Ottawa.

This is a real eye-opener for me; basically, there is $350 million pot of housing money for affordable housing, then they divvy it up based on per capita and we get $400,000 to us paid out over four years, you can't build housing with $400,000, never mind trying to account for it over four years. So these are the roadblocks we're up against. But I think that through our looking at the mandate of the corporation and developing a northern housing strategy that's made here in the North developed by Members of this House, along with the government and our partners, we have to have a pact, something together that's made in the North to deal with the challenges we're all having to face. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Next on the list I have Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Madam Chair. At this time, I wish to first start off by saying a huge yahoo to the Housing Corporation for paragraph three when it comes to the eight barrier-free units for persons with disabilities. A

big congratulations to them actually hearing and responding to the need. It's certainly an area of significant interest. I spent a bit of time in this House and a serious amount of time talking to this Minister about this need and I certainly have to say that good work needs to be responded to with the appropriate praise. I certainly want to emphasize that the Housing Corporation is listening to the needs of the constituents and the people that we serve. A significant amount of applause goes your way in that manner, speaking strictly and directly to the barrier-free units for people with disabilities.

Madam Chair, I'd like to continue, although I have a lot of enthusiasm with that response. That was a big yahoo. A round of yahoos from everyone.

Madam Chair, I'd like to continue my questions in regard to the Expanded Downpayment Assistance Program and is my understanding that the Housing Corporation is still screening applications for the EDAP, although they do not have money in the present budget for clients. So people are having intakes of applications being screened and even being approved, but there's no money. Noting that we're talking about the new budget year, anyone who's applied for this type of money, been approved through that type of program and been acknowledged that they would be a good contender of the EDAP program, would their application carry over into the new fiscal year starting April 1st, even though we still approved them after all the money was expended. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, we have seen a major increase in the number of applications we've received from communities for the EDAP and it's definitely one of the ways we can get people out of social housing and into homeownership. Just in Yellowknife alone, we've assisted 120 clients and expended $9.6 million. I think that alone shows that the program is working and assisting people getting into homeownership here in Yellowknife. I think that in other communities we are working with the community organizations through local housing authority offices and our program officers who go into the communities and take the applications.

Again, it's one program we have, but I think we have to expand that program to assist people who are on low income to extend the mortgage period from 20 years to 25 years, so that they can bring down those costs. The problem we're running into is the whole area of being able to go to the bank and being able to access a mortgage. EDAP assists you in getting to the bank and once you get to the bank, you can acquire a loan. But I think what we're seeing is, because a lot of people either have a bad credit rating or basically have no long-term security by way of job security, the first thing they look at is they want to have some security on the mortgage that you get with the bank. A lot of people are having problems just trying to acquire that mortgage from the bank because, in most cases, it's their first mortgage and they don't really have a work history or they have a credit problem. A lot of people are being refused through this program. We have to work to take down some of those barriers to ensure this program is successful to more people than what we're seeing right now. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Then if the Minister acknowledges that we have to work to take down these barriers, would the Minister clearly say today that anyone who applied, for example, after January 1st and still qualified for this program, although the funds had been completely exhausted, that they should still qualify for funding in the EDAP beginning April 1st? They would still be considered qualified for the program without having to reapply and go through the process again, acknowledging that they did qualify at the proper time through the proper scrutiny, yet there was no money and we still took their application in. Would he acknowledge that and it's not appropriate for him to give a firm date of how far we'd go back to acknowledge people who should qualify and how far we should consider their applications valid. Would he acknowledge to the question of those who applied when we had no funds should have a right to come back as a priority and we can put some limits on that? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, in regard to our clients, we encourage them to continue coming forward because, for a lot of them, their circumstances change year to year. Because of that change, it's important for them to realize that circumstances may change with regard to their job security or their collateral or looking at some sort of security against the mortgage. I think it's important for our clients to continue. I think one of the things that I really see an improvement in is we started getting out there and pushing communities to make them realize we have universal partnership agreements for communities to partner with to be the frontline workers to explain the different programs that we have. Also we go meet with the homeowners and seniors and say these are the programs out there. We encourage them to get in with their application and be the person that's the go-between, between our clients in the communities and the people at our regional office. We've really seen an increase in the number of clients that we're able to serve. We've also seen a decrease in the complaints that we have been receiving from communities by just making that little change.

I'd just like to provide some information with regard to EDAP. We've assisted some 571 clients and we've also been able to leverage almost $41 million from the banks by using this program. It shows that we have been able to assist quite a few people in northern Canada by not only using our money, but by accessing bank financing which really goes into not only homeownership, but it goes back into our economy to improve that. I think we have to continue that to realize how important a role housing plays in northern Canada, as well as in our economy. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Hawkins.