Agreed. Thank you. Sergeant-at-Arms, would you please bring in the witnesses?

We'd like to welcome back deputy minister David Murray and Mr. St. Germaine. I can never remember his title, but welcome back. We are still on general comments for Health and Social Services. General comments. Mr. Braden.

Madam Chair, thank you. A bit earlier in this current fiscal year, 2004-5, 2005-06, we were able to flow $1 million, which came from the federal government, into the planning for a dementia facility here in Yellowknife. This was in cooperation with the Yellowknife Association of Concerned Citizens for Seniors. It was a very welcome bit of funding work. Now, there has been also quite a bit of work going on to look into the state of facilities, of care facilities for seniors in other parts of the territory, as well, Madam Chair, in the last few months. This was all with the expectation that we've had, here in committee, that this was going to come together in a more or less consolidated plan of how we are going to manage what is inevitably the increasing occurrence of dementia and cognitive illness in our citizens.

Madam Chair, I wanted to ask specific to the $1 million planning project for the facility here in Yellowknife, what is the status of this? Is the department contemplating that this fiscal year, or when we will be able to make the major commitments to see this facility become a reality here, Madam Chair?

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, we are expecting that before the end of summer, or by the end of summer, early fall, the design work that's currently underway will be done and that we will be building, as per Cabinet direction, this particular item into the upcoming capital planning process for '07-08. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Braden.

Thank you. I'm pleased to see that commitment is there and on track. In tandem with this, Madam Chair, is the additional obligation, commitment, that is required for the O and M of this facility. I'm wondering if the Minister has any sense, at this time, of

what that commitment may be, and can we expect to see that incorporated into the base for the department in future years? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, the O and M requirements will go ahead concurrently with the capital project. It will be identified in the business plans and the budget for that year. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Braden.

Okay. Thank you, Madam Chair. That's all for now.

Very good. Thank you. Next on the list I have Mr. Pokiak.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Just a couple of quick general comments in regard to...(inaudible)...department. I'd just like to say a few things in regard to what's been happening in the smaller communities, Madam Chair. The first comment I'd like to make is, as we all know, there's a shortage of nurses in the small communities. Plus we get a lot of information from the department with regard to the reduction of services, especially in the small communities.

Having said that, I'd like to refer to page 2 of page 5 of the Minister's opening comments. They estimate that $4 million in new initiatives is made possible. It goes on further to say that including additional frontline nursing positions for small communities. I'd just like to ensure that the Minister follows up with some of the nurse resources we have in the communities. It's been on a number of occasions that it happened anyway. I do have a record of especially what happened in Tuk in the Nunakput riding.

So the other one, Madam Chair, I'd like to touch briefly on, is the one that was raised by some of the MLAs over here on this side. It is in regard to the escort service that the department presently has, and including translation services for the elders that are travelling outside of their home communities. I say this, Madam Chair, because I know of incidents in Tuk where there was an elder that needed to come down to Yellowknife, but she didn't want to go because the department didn't allow to have an escort. This is an elder I'm talking about. Whereas, in another instance where there was a younger person in the late 40s who was actually well-spoken in English, the wife was able to come down to Yellowknife to do some data. So I don't know where the differences are in terms of who can be escorted to the departments, into Yellowknife or to Edmonton for that fact.

Madam Chair, another comment I'd like to make is, on my return trip down here, I was approached by another resident from Tuk. They gave me a scenario where there was one client along with an escort that went to Edmonton for a major operation. Subsequently, Madam Speaker, is that when they arrived in Inuvik rather than flying on a local airline sched, they were on a transport that takes them back by the ice road. That makes it difficult for a patient, especially when you have an operation, that kind of operation. But apparently the people were forceful enough to talk the department into flying back home. That's just one scenario.

Another incident that I became aware of -- I don't think it was the first time because I know it happened to my mother a long time ago -- was the issuance of the wrong medication to elders. It did happen again, Madam Chair, so I don't know what the health services are doing to ensure that the elders are taken care of in the right manner that they should be.

These are just some of the general comments I'd like to make, Madam Chair. Like I say, a lot of my Members here, you know, as I was watching the proceedings yesterday, that I've been asked. So these are just some of the major questions that I have. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Pokiak. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, the Member is correct that this is a concern that has been raised by other Members, but, very quickly, I will touch on the issues that I've noted. We are, as I've told the Member the last time he raised this issue in the House, we are continuing to struggle with getting adequate nursing and nurses in small communities. I did talk yesterday about things we're working on with corporate human resources and the department in terms of setting up our own permanent float pools that we could establish, having one out of Inuvik and one out of Yellowknife.

In terms of the medical travel escort services, I would like to submit that we have, for the most part, a very high level of service in terms of medical travel and escort services, that would probably not be replicated in any other jurisdiction. I do recognize, however, that there are always exceptions and we are very concerned about those, especially when they involve elders. If there are translation issues, then we would like to deal with the exceptions on a case-by-case basis, trying to make sure that while we may not be able to change what happened, we can take steps to try to improve the quality of service. I know the Member has brought issues like this to my attention before and I appreciate his vigilance and perseverance in doing that and will continue to work with him on that.

In regards to, the same applies to the issuance of medication, that there are very strict protocols and standards and policies as to how medications are handed out. When situations arise that there is wrong medication handed out and we become aware of that, we backtrack the situation to make sure that we can ensure, find out what happened, and address those circumstances that caused that to happen. But once again, for the most part, we hand out probably thousands of different types of medication every day across the Northwest Territories and we are still concerned about those exceptions.

So once again, I appreciate the Member for raising that issue and if there are some specifics he cares to share with us on that issue outside of this forum, we'd be happy and very interested in finding out what those circumstances were. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Pokiak. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I have a few things I'd like to bring up. They are specific to Hay River. That's kind of the way I've looked at this topic of Health and Social Services in relationship to the budget. With respect to the doctors, Hay River is the second largest community in the Northwest Territories. It has a population of about 4,000 people. We have quite an expansive health care facility in Hay River. At this time, we do not have one single permanent doctor. Right now, we're completely relying on locum doctors to take care of the people in Hay River. I'd like to ask the Minister if he has any sense of why Hay River has struggled the way they have to recruit and retain physicians and what he sees as the solution to this going forward. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, we're in close contact, especially through the deputy and the other officials in the department with Hay River, working with them and human resources trying to recruit doctors for Hay River. This is not an unusual circumstance, unfortunately. Other communities have still, at this point, the benefit of some doctors, though not enough that are permanent or there for awhile.

In terms of why this is the case, I think a lot of it just pertains that there's a national shortage and there's some circumstances, obviously, in Hay River where individual doctors have chosen to go or leave the department. We have met specifically with the board. Some of the things that were being contemplated are looking at making exceptions to the locum contract, as well as there was an interest in possibly seeing if fee-for-service would be a way to in some cases revert or entice doctors to return or come to Hay River.

As well, we're looking at trying to offset with some nurse practitioners. However, with the indulgence of the chair, I'd ask the deputy to maybe speak a bit more about the contact with Hay River and some of those assists that we're trying to provide. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Murray, I'm sorry.

Thank you, Mr. Murray. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I do know it's a difficult situation, it just seems that the problem has existed for awhile and with the turnover that we've seen, it almost makes you wonder if there's something that's evading us in terms of a cause because there's been such a high turnover.

Mr. Chairman, I'd also like to ask the Minister if he could please update me, then, on the status of the capital for either renovations or upgrades or replacement of the hospital in Hay River. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Minister.