Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I thank the Minister for the update. I guess if there's an opportunity here, I think there is an opportunity, even if the city -- and I know it was just the corridor that was set aside -- if the city doesn't have the ability to sell the land to finance the building of the road, perhaps another way to look at this, and I make this suggestion that we do need services, and I'm talking water and sewer, extended out to the Yellowknife airport and the sooner the better. Now, there may be an opportunity with the City of Yellowknife to have the Government of the Northwest Territories look at paying for the road in exchange for some work that the city could do. There could be a different way to go about this to get that road built and to get services out to the Yellowknife airport. I'd like to ask the Minister, has his department, has the Minister of Transportation, has he had any discussions with the city in regard to addressing the need for services at the Yellowknife Airport? Thank you, Mr. Chairman...

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The answer to that is yes. We've had a lot of discussions with the city. We've also had a number of discussions with some of the tenants who are on airport land. The concern for water and sewer services is something that is a growing one. Right now, fire protection on some of the new infrastructure that is coming up is proving to be very costly as you have to be able to have so much retention of water available in the case of a fire. Our leases do not specify that we will provide water and sewer services. The city, up to now, has not been willing to do so and we've hired a consultant. We've set up a working group and have hired a consultant to look at the issue regarding the supply of water and sewer services, what is the best way to do this, what is the most cost-effective way to do this, and also how would it be paid for? So we have been working on this initiative for the last little while. We've just gone out to the public process of securing a consultant. So that's something we will be doing.

As to sitting down with the city discussing a trade-off or paying for another portion of infrastructure someplace else in the city, no, we haven't done that. Up until now, we have been looking at the Kam Lake bypass road. We have our reasons for extending that road up to a certain point .The city would like to see it extended right through into the Kam Lake area. We still have to have a lot of discussion over that.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am glad to hear the Minister say that. As long as the dialogue remains open and consistent. Like I said earlier, where there is a will, there's a way. There may be different approaches that might be able to satisfy both the Government of the Northwest Territories and the City of Yellowknife. So I would like to see you continue your work in that regard.

A couple of other things that I just wanted to mention. I know there is two million additional dollars going into Highway No. 4, the Ingraham Trail. Over the past 10 or 12 years, there has been a substantial amount of dollars go into that road. It's used extensively for resupply of the diamond mines. This government continues to put money into that road and rehabilitation of that road, and I would just like to ask the Minister how do we answer to the residents here? These big trucks are using this road every winter, tearing it up, yet every year we seem to be the ones left to pay for it. There is something about that that doesn't quite add up for me, Mr. Chairman. I would like to ask the Minister if there is any way we can try to get some funding from the resource developers that are using the road to help us pay for the reconstruction of the Ingraham Trail every year? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. McLeod.

Mr. Chairman, the use of the Ingraham Trail, deterioration and wear and tear on that road I don't think is a lot different than some of the other roads we have across the Territories. The road upkeep and the road maintenance is our responsibility. In the case of rebuilding or investing more dollars for continued safety, straightening some of the corners and widening the roads, we are investing $2 million a year. That money is part of the strategic infrastructure funding we have from the federal government. So it's quite difficult. I understand what the Member is saying, but that would be very difficult unless you were to start looking at a highway toll. I think that was something that was rejected some time ago.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I guess the same could be said for a lot of our highways and the wear and tear that's coming as a result of resource development. Even Highway No. 3, I know some sections of it are new, and I know I mentioned this last year and I will mention it again, but that road in certain sections, it's like it was just laid on top of Jell-o. It's laid one year and the next year it's up and down. I know the Minister drives that road extensively; he knows what I am talking about. In certain sections, it's quite up and down like a rollercoaster. In some parts of that road, even in the summertime, I wouldn't say it's 100 percent safe. If you hit some of these bumps going 100 kilometres an hour, it could be dangerous in a small car, Mr. Chairman.

The other thing I wanted to just mention quickly so we can move into some other Members' comments, but the increased winter maintenance, I had to ask about this. Does this increased maintenance happen on statutory holidays? The reason I ask is the general public is typically travelling more on holidays. At Christmastime, on December 26th to be specific, there was a foot of snow on the highway between Yellowknife and Chan Lake. It wasn't ploughed and this was all day. I am just wondering, does the maintenance stop on statutory holidays? How does it work on stat holidays?

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, probably up until mid-January, when it came down to snowfalls and dealing with snow on weekends and stat holidays, we had to call our staff out on an overtime basis. With this new initiative, we are looking at having staff on Highways No. 1, 2, 3, 4 and 8 365 days a year. That includes stat holidays. This started January 16th of this year.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Next I have Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a few general comments. There have been some talks about studies and consultants and engineered plans for the roads. One of the roads that I think is going to be very majorly impacted by pipeline activity, and I think we need to be forward thinking and contemplate that that is probably going to happen, is the Mackenzie Highway between the new town and the old town in Hay River. I am sure the Minister is well familiar with the lay of the land in Hay River, but essentially to get to the tank farms, the more industrial section, the railhead, where fuel is offloaded and reloaded and all those sorts of activities, they all take place in the old town. The highway between the new town and the old town in Hay River is very narrow. There is quite a bit of traffic turning off at the airport. It has some large curves in the road and also the slope of the road is such that it seems like it wasn't built for big trucks loaded with materials and fuel. Before this becomes a really big problem, I would like to ask what historically has been done in terms of engineered drawings, studies or pricing on doing something to make that road safer for heavy traffic. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chair, we've had some general discussions regarding the infrastructure requirements for the pipeline and for resource development with Imperial. We've had some discussions as to what it would cost to ensure all the infrastructure is in place that would be required for this huge project. We've been able to price it out. We are estimating it's going to cost roughly $100 million. Some of this discussion has also taken place through the socio-economic impact discussions that are being lead by ITI. As to the actual section that the Member is talking about, I would have to see if we have any information regarding concern in that area. I don't have that with me at this moment.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There are some real deficiencies with that road in terms of traffic. There are a lot of people who live in the new town and work in the old town, so there is just a lot of vehicular

traffic, residents of Hay River on that road. Then you add to the mix the transport trucks that go there because the business they conduct is at the far end of that section of roadway. There is no turning lane at the airport, for example. You have school buses on there, a lot of different traffic. It's narrow and it's not sufficient. Even if there were not any further resource development and the pipeline didn't go, just the trucks that are hauling fuel, that are going to the mines, all those trucks pass through Hay River on that stretch of the Mackenzie Highway. I know the railway is planning a $40 million upgrade and it runs parallel to the highway there. I think that if you don't have any costings or projections on that...That road belongs to you, Mr. Chairman. It belongs to Mr. McLeod. It may run through Hay River, but it's the territorial government's road. It needs some quite urgent attention if you don't have anything on the books on that.

Onto a different subject, there is reference to resurfacing some areas of road. There is capital being set aside for that. There is a lot of chipsealing that goes on over top of paved roads. One thing I have noticed, and I travel the highways here quite extensively, is that when roads are resurfaced with chipseal, quite often the markings on the road...I don't know what kind of paint it is, if it's supposed to just brighten the colour or it's supposed to be reflective or what, but it seems like the porousness of the chipseal seems to absorb the paint and it's not the same kind of contrast you would get on a paved road. I think we need to do something to address that because with the heavy traffic, anytime it has snowed and you get behind or even meeting oncoming transport trucks, there is quite a number of seconds there where you can't see the road at all, but better markings would certainly help a lot to be able to see where the centre line is and where the shoulder line is. I would like to register my complaint about the quality of the markings on the road.

Mr. Chairman, I heard just recently an article on the radio about provinces contemplating the demographics of people who are going to be on the road in the next while. The baby boomers are a large population which just keep moving through this world. It's a large number of people. In other provinces, they have been contemplating this change and when they are replacing highway signs, they are making them larger and they are making them more reflective. When they are replacing things, they are not going out and tearing every sign down and replacing it, but when they are doing their planning for highways and markings and that sort of thing, they are taking into account that the majority of drivers on the road in the next 20 years are going to be people who are older. I want to make sure that you're alert to that fact and we just become aware of that, so we don't have a certain type of system on southern roads and then we get into the Northwest Territories and everything is different. We need to be in sync, I guess. That's the point I am trying to make. I was wondering if the Minister was aware of that through his meetings with other provincial Ministers. Is he aware of initiatives to try to address this changing demographic in terms of highways and signage? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Before I ask the Minister to respond, can I ask committee members if they want to talk to each other, can they step out? At this time, I would like to thank Mr. McLeod. Mr. McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chair, I have to commend the Member on her observations. Yes, there is no standard...The standard has not changed for the paint on the highways and normally what the Member is referring to is paint applied to a freshly reconstructed area and usually we get the second layer, which is done in the second year after construction. You will see that it's brighter and more reflective. But the first year after construction, it does go into the pours of the road, or the chipseal, and is not quite as bright. It's interesting that the Member would observe that.

In terms of the road in the community of Hay River, that's something we will make note of. There are other communities that also have raised certain areas in their community where they have concern where there is going to be high traffic volumes. Inuvik has done the same and Fort Simpson also has raised concern. We will continue to look at this. I am being informed by our staff that we haven't had the actual detailed discussions that are required to take place, or will be taking place, in terms of what is right in the communities, but those will be happening. We will try to bring that to the attention of the proponent and see if we can have some plan to resolve that.

Regarding the signs and larger lettering, that's something that there has been some general discussion at the national level. There is no new initiative in place. There are no new requirements in terms of new national standards to increase that, but it has been raised as a concern. There has been some general discussion and we will follow with interest. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is a small point, but it continues to be an interesting topic of conversation, and that is Northwest Territories residents who I don't believe get reminders that their five-year term on their driver's licence expires. We've had so many of our people ending up on holidays and go to rent a vehicle and find out their driver's licence expired sometime prior to that and it just causes all kinds of havoc. I know it's difficult for the Minister to account for people's forgetfulness, but we used to rely on the goods services of the Department of Transportation to remind us when our vehicles were needing to be reregistered and also when our drivers' licences needed to be renewed. I would like to know the status of that initiative, which we didn't think was all that costly a measure but did provide a very important service to NWT residents. I would like to find out what the status is of those two activities. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, we are planning to unveil our new design of our driver's licence hopefully sometime in late spring or early this summer. It's going to be a more secured document, a document that will be recognized throughout different jurisdictions in Canada and will be more readily accepted as a piece of identification than the previous one was. Somebody had asked about whether it's going to have a maple leaf. Yes, it will have a maple leaf on it. Is it a maple leaf or a bear? Oh, it's the flag on it. As part of

that, we will start to incorporate the reminders of the people who will be needing to renew their driver's licence. So those two things we are planning to bring forward fairly quickly, but it will more than likely be the latter part of the spring/early summer.