Thank you, Madam Chair. I guess with some of what Mr. Braden was touching on, some legislative drafting in government because we do make a lot of amendments to a lot of the bills and a lot of the acts that we pass in this House. A lot of those amendments are drafted hopefully in house. I guess just alluding to the other expenses of $2.349 million, which about 60 percent comprises of fees and payments. I was just wondering if maybe the Minister could just elaborate more, or give me some detail on what the $1.4 million in fees and payments comprises of?

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Madam Chair. The Member is right; the lion's share of the work is done in house. If we look at the breakout on fees and payments, we're talking about other expenses, things like systems chargeback, the TSC, there are also bar fees, course

fees, conference fees in there; sorry, legal bar fees, Madam Chair. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Mr. Villeneuve.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Just getting back to the taxation issues going out of house, I know a lot of these are probably some property tax issues that the government has kind of been on hold with finding any resolve for I'd say 10 years now. Are there any timelines now as to when some of these property taxation issues will find some resolution to all these outstanding taxation issues that we have with companies that have been dealing, like say up in the Tuk area where Beaudrill and Shell had been doing some exploration 15 years ago and yet the property tax issues with those companies have never been resolved to date? So if we are contracting out all these taxation issues that we want the government to deal with, how much longer can we expect these issues to remain outstanding? Are there any timelines that the government is looking at finding any resolution to any of these issues, Madam? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Obviously, from time to time the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs may ask us for legal advice on such matters and we would provide that, but in terms of the policy line and where they decide to go as a department, and how they move on collecting those fees, or what approach they take, that's really up to the department to make that determination. I'm not in a position to give you any sort of sense of time frame for resolutions on those issues. Those are probably questions that would be best put to the MACA Minister. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Mr. Villeneuve.

One more quick point then, I guess. Just earlier, the Minister stated that all the government justice issues or advice on justice and redrafting of legislation goes through the Department of Justice. So where do the departments draw the line on whether departments make the call of whether to contract out a particular legal advice issue or justice issue related to the department's activities? Where is that line in the sand, I guess? When does the Department of Justice make the call? When do the departments make the call? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Madam Chair. The contracting department and our department would sit down to discuss a matter. For instance, we would advise them as to whether or not we had the expertise in house. If they were looking for information that we weren't able to provide, they may have a recommendation as to somebody they'd like us to contract with and we might engage in that. So the two departments really work the matter out. If there was ever a situation that couldn't be resolved and the two departments had differing opinions, it would come up to the deputy minister to make a decision. If it still needed to go further, then it would come to my level. But I can indicate that that really would happen very infrequently. It's usually worked out at the department level between staff and it's usually a matter of whether or not we have the expertise in house. I think most times we do, as I've indicated, except for very specific issues. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Mr. Villeneuve.

I'm fine, thanks.

On the list I have Mr. Ramsay, Mr. Menicoche, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm just wondering if the Minister and the department have ever done any kind of cost-benefit analysis as to having all the legal help in house, as opposed to contracting the services out. Has that type of work ever been done?

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Madam Chair. As you can imagine, if we think there is a benefit to having some expertise in house, if we think it will pay for itself and we can make a business case for that resource, then we would certainly go forward to FMB and make the case that we need that in house, but it would have to be something that we use frequently enough to make sense. Otherwise, it's more cost effective for us to contract out. I would point out, though, that when there is the ability for us to have in house resources that we're going to use enough, there is an advantage in that there is some continuity. I think that is one of the advantages to having the resource be a staff resource that we can draw on, but, of course, it's got to make business sense. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Madam Chair. The reason I mentioned that is we are spending almost $9 million on this and I'm not sure exactly what the breakdown would be for the legal services or legislative drafting that would be provided to the government as a percentage of that, but it's probably quite substantive I'd imagine. I just wanted to mention that. The Minister doesn't have to respond to that, he's answered the question. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Next on the list I have Mr. Menicoche.

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Just carrying on with some of the concerns I had with respect to legal aid concerns in some of my opening comments. I think that some of the other Members asked some specific questions with regard to legal services, the family aspects of it, helping and assisting with divorces, child adoptions. I would just like to ask the Minister, Madam Chair, how much of an uptake is that, or do we have, in the system? Specifically, is it being used frequently, is it infrequently, Madam Chair?

Thank you. Again, I'll just point out to the Members that we are on page 7-13, services to government. Legal services, in this instance on the description page, does not refer to legal

aid services. Legal aid services are on page 7-23, but again, I will ask the Minister if he could respond to that question. Thank you.

Madam Chair, in terms of the legal aid services that we provide or that are provided through the Legal Services Board, we do, and lawyers do end up working with clients through a myriad of issues. Sometimes social workers are involved and our Health and Social Services system is involved. I think as much as possible we try to take a holistic approach to dealing with our clients. It can be very frustrating I think for legal aid clients to be told that we're only here to help you through some legal issues and you can go somewhere else to get addictions issues sorted out first, or social services, or family issues sorted out first. So we're cognizant of that and ensure that we try to do what we can to help people work through these issues. I would point out that the people who sign up, in effect, to be legal aid lawyers, are taking on this challenge because they're interested in helping people through these very difficult and sometimes often very divisive issues, you know. Wherever possible, we try to see if these can't be resolved outside the courts. I think that that's always our goal and that's why you see us engaging in pilot projects like the mediation project to help families work through some of these very difficult issues. We'll certainly continue to apply that philosophy.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Mr. Bell. Mr. Menicoche.