I don't think that's an unreasonable ask and could be worked into the terms or conditions of employment. I think the act does speak to...If Cabinet makes the appointment of a territorial judge and indicates where that judge must reside, then that must be followed. So that's how that is accommodated and dealt with. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am glad we brought a lawyer here today because I have a legal question from the Minister's point of view. Would we be restricting someone's constitutional right for mobility by instructing that? Although to me, my stomach tells me if we appoint a justice at the Territorial Court in Hay River, then we should be asking them to live in Hay River and my stomach tells me that that is the right decision to suggest and build into their contract. But the question of a constitutional perspective is, do we restrict them on their mobility rights and freedoms as a Canadian citizen? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Minister.

Mr. Chairman, we don't believe it contravenes the Charter. It would be one of the conditions of employment and the potential candidate is free to either take a job or not take a job. There could be presumably many conditions of the employment that they would either agree with or not agree with and they would make the determination on that basis, but it's not unconstitutional. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Of course, I am again, being a non-lawyer, struggling with that point where we could put restrictions on their employment. Could the Minister maybe reaffirm in a clear way that we will make that an absolute of their contract by saying they have to live in the region that they are representing? Again, if we have someone in northern territorial justice, maybe in the Inuvik court, sitting on that bench, that they have to be a resident at least in the Beaufort-Delta, and likewise if someone is a South Slave judge sitting on the bench in Hay River, that they have to be a resident of the South Slave? Could we get that firmed up in some type of commitment from the Minister, other than we could make

that part of their contract? Could we get it down to some real tough words? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Minister.

Mr. Chairman, what I will say is Cabinet will continue to deal with this on a case-by-case basis. If we are making an appointment to the bench expecting that a justice will live in a certain community or region, then we will indicate so in the conditions of employment and they will have to comply with that. There could be any number of scenarios where the condition could be they reside in the Northwest Territories and we don't want to specify a location. We could change the model. Mr. Chairman, there are a number of scenarios, but if we think it's important for a judge to live in a certain community, we will specify that in the contract, in the terms of the employment and we expect, because it's laid out in the act, that the judge will comply with that. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With respect to that, I would actually like to see the case-by-case reversed where it is a must and if it's considered to be deemed reasonable, the case-by-case would be the opposite. We tell them they have to live in that area if you are going to be a justice in that area. The case-by-case is taken into consideration and if it seems unfeasible at that time, or unwarranted due to circumstances that go far beyond reasonability. So I would like to hear it the other way around. I know the whole world is full of non-typical isolated incidents where we need to consider other options. I would like to hear it in the reverse that we will make it part of the mandate that the appointment of a judge in a particular area, that they will be truly a representative of that area and deal with case-by-case, if it's a need. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Minister.

Mr. Chairman, what I can tell the Member is, that is not laid out in that manner in the act. It does indicate that where there's an appointment that specifies the location in which a territorial judge must reside, then they must do that. If no location is specified, then there isn't that requirement, Mr. Chairman. So we would have to change the act. I am not proposing that we want to do that at this time. I think we can arrive at the same ends by having the condition placed on terms of employment and Cabinet can do that. There is probably nothing to stop the Member from taking this up with his committee and if they want to champion an amendment to this act, then we would consider it at that point. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will go back to the earlier suggestion. It sounds like it's a legislation problem as opposed to anything else. At this time, I will accept, seeing as there is probably not a lot of support on this issue at this time, but I will accept the Minister's position where we will make an effort to do that. I will take that as a small, but very important victory.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Ms. Lee.

Just on that, because I was listening to it, I think the Minister should be more...I don't know if he can be so certain about Cabinet's ability to write this into the contract. I would like to see him do more research on that. The thing about it is that a judge is not necessarily an employee. It's an appointment. It is not as easy to remove a judge. They do have complete independence once they are appointed. I think there might be some more questions about mobility.

We have doctors and nurses who come up here, they sign contracts to live somewhere and they are allowed to move around. We do have mobility rights here, so I just wanted to add that to the mix if the Minister is looking at...I think he might want to do more legal research and admin research on that because I think it's fair to say judges aren't necessarily 100 percent employees. We may not be able to impose the kind of conditions that we could to an employee, and we couldn't impose that many mobility conditions on employees anyway. There are laws and rights that Canadians have that go beyond employee contracts, so I just want to...It is more complicated than it appears. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Minister.

Mr. Chair, we don't think we are violating any mobility provisions under the Charter. Our act is clear and it does say that we are an appointment, under subsection 2, specifies the location at which a territorial judge must reside. Then the territorial judge shall act in accordance with those specifications. So if a judge accepts as one of the conditions of employment the provision that they must reside in a certain community, we expect them to live up to that. If they don't, then they are, in fact, violating that section of the act. I wouldn't expect that they would do that. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Does committee agree to go clause by clause?

Bill 12, An Act to Amend the Territorial Court Act, clause 1.

Clause 2.