Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Obviously a lot of money and training goes into being able to work with a dog like this. It's simply not a matter of subbing a dog in or out. It takes a lot of work with the handler. In this particular situation, unfortunately the RCMP handler had asked the bystander to stay back and not get involved in the chase, and he did involve himself in the chase. The people in question who had been stealing snow machines apparently, or allegedly stealing snow machines, had been asked to stop. They did stop, and then the bystander entered the picture and ran onto the scene to try to help, and I think the dog mistook the bystander for one of the individuals. So it's an unfortunate circumstance. Somebody was very hurt and that is very serious, and we take that very seriously. Again, I'll give the House the full assurance that we are undertaking a review and we'll make sure that we do whatever we can to see that this won't happen again. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Written questions. Returns to written questions. Order! Replies to the budget address. Petitions. Reports of committees on the review of bills. Tabling of documents. Notices of motion. Notices of motions for the first reading of bills. First reading of bills. The honourable Minister of Finance, Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Weledeh, that Bill 20, An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act, No. 2, be read for the first time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Motion's on the floor. Motion's in order.

Question's being called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Bill 20 has had first reading. First reading of bills. Second reading of bills. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of bills and other matters: Bill 18, committee reports 5, 6 and 7, with Mrs. Groenewegen in the chair.

I'll call Committee of the Whole to order. When we left off yesterday, we were doing the detail of the information items for the NWT Housing Corporation. What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Menicoche.

We'll continue with the deliberation of the Housing Corporation.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Then I will ask Mr. Krutko if he'd be prepared to take the witness table and have his witnesses join him. Is committee agreed?

Agreed. Thank you. I'm going to ask the Sergeant-at-Arms, please, if you would bring Mr. Krutko's witnesses to the table.

Committee members, we left off on page 8-34 and I'd like to welcome Mr. Koe, the president of the Housing Corporation, back to the Chamber today. We're on page 8-34, information item, district operations, grants and contributions. I'll give Members a chance to find their place.

Agreed. Thank you. Page 8-37, Public Housing Program funding, operations expenditure summary.

Page 8-38, information item, Public Housing Program funding, grants and contributions. Mr. Braden.

Madam Chair, a lot has been in the North, and in this government and around the world about the escalating cost of energy and how it impacts our cost of living, and certainly in this government how it's going to impact our bottom lines. I would like to see if the Minister could give us a bit of information on what kind of energy initiatives the Housing Corporation has undertaken to assist in managing this extremely expensive part of our operation.

I note, Madam Chair, that in the information given that the department is looking at a couple of areas of increasing expenditures. It's an interesting kind of inversion going on here, Madam Chair, in that heating fuel budgeted for -- this is under Public Housing Program funding for the provision of public housing and rent supplement programs to low income residents. We're actually forecasting a decrease in the cost of heating fuel, Madam Chair, from an estimated $6.4 million this year to 5.7. This is sort of why I was asking what kind of energy management programs are we undertaking here, because if we're going to be saving this kind of money, I'd sure like to find out how they're doing it, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, we are involved in the process government-wide with all government departments and agencies, and looking at the high energy costs, especially the high-rising fuel costs in which there are dollars that will be approved in this House through the supp to carry us forward. We did not build it into our estimates. In the last year we did. I think because of the uncertainty of the high price and the impact that it's had territorial-wide and also government-wide, that it has been managed now through the central government. We are looking at the energy affects that we've seen, so we're again with our partners, we're working with the Arctic Energy Alliance in regards to finding ways to how we utilize energy and also how we use energy. Also, with our local housing authorities, we've been having workshops with our different authorities to find more ways of conserving energy, but also finding new technologies that are out there in regards to using less energy and also bringing down the costs to ourselves and operations.

Members realize that there is a high cost to operate public housing, especially in the communities, and one of the highest cost-drivers we have, you think it will be electricity, but realistically the highest cost we pay is for water consumption for our public housing units because we pay a high rate by way of the government rate in most of these communities. So to deal with that, we do have a full volume of flush toilets. We're able to try to conserve energy. We're doing some pilot projects in regards to the different communities, of how do we re-use or recycle water that's being used in those units. Also, we're looking at energy-efficient appliances in regards to changing the heating systems we have in our facilities that are more energy-efficient than the older furnaces that we have in place. So we do have some pilot projects that are in place, but again that the Member talks about in regards to fuel costs is territory-wide. It affects all government departments and it is an issue that is dealt with through

the Government of the Northwest Territories across the board, so we are a part of that program.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Just for the record, Mr. Anderson has joined us at the witness table. Mr. Braden.

Madam Chair, does the Housing Corporation...Has it set any specific targets for reduction or management of energy costs? It's all very useful to hear of these various areas: yes, we're going to look into new technology; we're going to look into changing our appliances; we're going to look into, you know, better training and technical orientation. The Arctic Energy Alliance I think is showing some real leadership in this area here. I guess I have to remind myself, Madam Chair, this is the work of the oversight and accountability within Committee of the Whole here and it's difficult to be able to do a good job from this side when we don't have targets or milestones that we think could be out there. So I'd like to ask the corporation, has it set any targets, any parameters for the kinds of reductions that it sees as possible? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, there has been a decision made within the government departments to be more energy efficient and also bringing down that cost in which we've decreased the amount of subsidy we have received in regards to fuel. I think all departments were directed that we have to find 50 percent by way of next year's allocation in house to cover those higher costs we've recovered for this year, and next year we have to be able to find ways of reducing our costs by 50 percent. That direction has been given and that's why it's reflected the way it is in regards to the budget; it's why you see such a decrease.

But again, we are working to find ways of being more aware of the cost of operating our housing, but also the cost of heating our units. Again, we are trying different things and working with the people in the industry to look at more energy-efficient appliances and trying to make our customers aware, in regards to our clients, and making them realize what it really costs for our units. So we are doing mail-outs to our tenants to make them more aware of the costs of those units.

In regards to the budget, one of the ways we've dealt with that is the way we construct houses. We used to do a lot of single home construction, now we're looking at multi-construction configuration so that we have a centralized heating system, a centralized boiler system and also that we're able to take advantage of a centralized mechanical system in a lot of these units which make these units more energy efficient. In the older systems in the single-built houses, the cost of operating those compared to the multi-constructed units, we have really seen the savings in that area. So as you can see from the budget, the majority of the houses that are going to be built in regards to the replacement of a lot of our public housing units will be multi-built construct configurations. So that's another way we're trying to deal with bringing down the high costs of the fuel costs in a lot of these communities. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Braden.

Madam Chair, the Housing Corporation also leases a lot of property, and to that extent, along with, say, the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, the Department of Health, we are, this government collectively is a major tenant, perhaps the biggest single tenant, if you will, in the whole of the Northwest Territories. Now, when it comes to deciding how best to negotiate our leases and get the best value for our money, Madam Chair, it's becoming increasingly important that we look at the long-term operating costs of our leases, in addition to, or perhaps even more significant than the simple per-square-foot leasing costs. So I want to ask, what steps has the Housing Corporation taken to assess the long-term lifecycle of operating costs? Given the huge spike in energy and utility costs, can we hear something about just how much this factors into our decisions on which landlords to lease with and what impact does that have on our bottom line dollar figure? Are we putting a strong emphasis on the long-term operating costs of, say, a newer, more modern building compared to an older one? Thank you.