Good afternoon, Members. Welcome to the House. Orders of the day. Ministers' statements. Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today, we are having a theme day on the high cost of living, Mr. Speaker. One obvious response to address the high cost of living is to put more money directly into residents' pockets.

This government needs to respond to this problem with a serious push for the adjustment to our northern residents' deductions; an idea that has recently received a lot of airtime, especially during our last federal campaign, and it has been mentioned several times by constituents directly to me.

Everyone in this House is well aware that the federal government established a northern residents deduction in 1988 at $5,400 per household and then increased it to $5,475 in 1991 in zone A, which includes the entire NWT. Everyone is also aware that rate has remained the same since.

Residents of our three territories, and the northern regions of some provinces, receive this benefit. But it feels skewed, as far as I'm concerned, Mr. Speaker. While the deduction has remained the same, at $5,475 for the last 15 years, cost of living continues to climb. It is clear to me that this deduction needs to be adjusted, and adjusted quickly. We need it to reflect current market rates, not the market rates of 15 years ago, Mr. Speaker. Not only should that be a consideration, this adjustment needs to be on an annual ongoing basis to reflect real times and real costs.

Our northern deduction -- that is, our northern residents deduction -- needs to be indexed to market inflation rates to avoid erosion of our dollar that continues to grow in expenses upwards every day in this territory.

For every $1,000 that the deduction is increased, Mr. Speaker, that would mean $3 million back in the NWT residents' pockets. That is $3 million that would go a long way to help pay for groceries, go towards the high cost of rent, oil bills, mortgages and utility bills, Mr. Speaker, just to name a few. These simple steps would have real impacts in our residents' pockets; impacts that could be felt throughout our NWT.

Canada is beginning a new session through the new government and they said that they would look at new tax adjustments and alterations that reflect different priorities. This needs to be a priority, significantly pushed by this government. This issue needs to be brought to the forefront. So, Mr. Speaker, at the appropriate time, I will have questions for the Minister about trying to make differences for our northern residents. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Members' statements. The honourable Member for Kam Lake, Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today, I am once again going to speak about the cost of living here in the Northwest Territories. It is an issue that all Members of this House share in addressing the concerns of the people that we represent.

Regular members passed a motion last year calling on the government to take some immediate action on the rising cost of living. This, at that time, was precipitated by the geopolitical and natural disasters that were pushing fuel costs to unprecedented levels.

The GNWT has acknowledged that it had to look in the mirror and challenge itself on its own consumption while, at the same time, offering residents incentives and programs designed to help ease the pain of these inflated prices. Prices have backed up somewhat but, as a government, we must continue to push forward with the programming and new innovative ways to cut back on consumption. It is an excellent idea to offer a break for residents servicing their furnaces, but it would make more sense to do this in the fall when people would be doing that, instead of the dead of winter, so you would have more uptake on it.

Energy prices are just part of the issue of the rising cost of living here in the Northwest Territories. The motion last year also put pressure on the government to publicly discuss their plans for dealing with the high cost of living. We have had that meeting just a few weeks ago. In my opinion, the GNWT did a great job at making a case that it is a very expensive place to live. Thanks very much, guys. No one can dispute the facts, Mr. Speaker. We need to find real solutions and take the action necessary to carry them out. Some of the ideas that I have brought forward in this House that I would like to see pursued, are such things as a permanent trust fund for all residents here in the Northwest Territories, value-added industry from the oil and gas developments like a refinery, tax credits for interest paid on mortgages, and while we are

discussing that, we should include rent as well, the exclusion of GST being paid on energy bills, tax credits for northern residency and an overall exemption for the three northern territories on paying the GST.

Mr. Speaker, I look forward to discussing these issues with the Premier at the appropriate time. Thank you.

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Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Members' statements. The honourable Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today, Members have chosen to focus their Members' statements on the cost of living in the North. It has always cost more to live in the North, but those costs have risen dramatically with the record price of crude oil. This has affected the cost of fuel for our vehicles, fuel to heat our homes, fuel for the generation of electricity, fuel for air transportation, fuel for the vehicles by which we receive most of our goods in the North, most essentially our food. We can't change the environment in the North, but we can change how we operate within that environment. If ever there was a place where attention should be paid to innovation and cutting-edge technology in construction, mechanical systems, methods of power generation and energy conservation, you would think that it would be here in the North.

Such a high percentage of what we earn goes to pay for our basic needs: shelter, food and transportation. But I think we have been remiss in being cognizant of our harsh environment in how we live and move about in the North. We continue to build buildings with relatively little investment on the front end to avoid the high ongoing costs of operation. This is where I think the government needs to take a leading role. We need to lead by example, in ensuring that every cost-effective measure is taken to build homes and capital infrastructure that will use energy in the most efficient way.

Recently, the director of the South Slave district housing office in Hay River told me about a prototype subdivision in Okotoks, Alberta, that was set up as an example of a model of energy efficiency. Let's go down there and take a look. Let's make our next group of public housing units a state-of-the-art demonstration of real affordable housing.

I would like to see some model homes in the North showcasing all of the latest methods of construction, high-efficiency heating systems, energy-saving appliances and fixtures, et cetera. I would like to see demonstration projects of retrofits to existing buildings employing every modern means of reducing costs of operation. Perhaps we haven't had enough incentive in the past, but for more than just monetary savings, to be good stewards of our environment, we should have sufficient motivation now. I want to see our government take a leading role in this and many other initiatives to bring relief to families and northerners who are being challenged right now to make ends meet with the unprecedented high cost of living in the North. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Members' statements. The honourable Member for Range Lake, Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, no matter how you look at it, the high cost of living is a real issue for us in the North. It is simply very expensive to live in the North. Everything here costs more, and the government is doing very little to make it any easier.

Mr. Speaker, according to the 2003 Statistics Canada survey, Yellowknifers spend way more than the national average on all categories, and more than even the territorial average. Mr. Speaker, on overall household spending, Yellowknifers spend $90,000 per household compared to the Canadian average of $61,000 and $77,000 for the NWT-wide. That is about 47 percent more, Mr. Speaker. Yellowknifers spend $2,000 more on food bought from stores and $1,600 more on food bought from restaurants. That is 30 percent more. Yellowknifers spend about $7,500 more on principle accommodation, whether it is rented or owned. Yellowknifers spend almost $2,000 more on water, fuel and electricity than the national average. Yellowknifers spend almost 96 percent more on water and sewage, 65 percent more on oil and gas, 43 percent more on electricity than the national average. This was just in 2003, before we have seen the latest increases, Mr. Speaker.

I can tell you that there is a lot more where this comes from, which is a document that the government issued. It is the survey from Statistics Canada. Yellowknifers spend $1,000 on household furnishings and equipment, and we spend $1,300 more on clothing. We spend $3,000 more on recreation, $1,400 more on personal insurance and pension contributions. The big grab is that we spend almost $3,000 more on personal taxes.

Mr. Speaker, it may be that we spend more because we make more, but I am certain that, given the choice, we would like to pay less on these items and build up some savings, and I could also add that we are very generous people because we spend more on gifts of money and contributions, as well. Mr. Speaker, I have to tell you, pushing for a cut in northern residents' deduction from the federal government is just one thing, but it is about high time that this government does its part right here in the North to do something about this high cost of living. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Thank you, Ms. Lee. Before I go on, colleagues, I would like to draw your attention to a very distinguished looking group of graduates in the gallery. They are there from the community wellness workers diploma program. They are Lucy Dillon from Tuktoyaktuk...

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Beatrice Blake from Fort McPherson, ...

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Wilfred Simon from Fort Resolution, ...

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Tina Gargan from Fort Providence, ...

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Cyndy Caisse from Yellowknife, ...

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...and Byrne Richards from Yellowknife.

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Also with them is Vicki Jacob, the instructor from Keyano College. I think that is from Alberta.

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Welcome to the House. Members' statements. The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Braden.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Finance Minister Floyd Roland tells us the NWT is about to become a key economic driver for Canada. While this has many positive aspects, opportunities and potentials for us, there is also a considerable cost to a rapidly increasing cost of living in a very hot economy. For instance, in Yellowknife, getting a place to live at a reasonable cost has got to be the major issue facing the opportunities for growth and stability for this community. Yellowknife continues to be a magnet community, Mr. Speaker. I hear from people who come to live here from many other parts of the Northwest Territories and Canada. They have moved here for education, jobs, services and other attractive amenities of the city, but they continue to have difficulty in finding reasonable and appropriate accommodation.

The survey of average spending by community types shows that spending on shelter in Yellowknife is significantly higher than $19,000 a year, compared to the rest of Canada at $11,000, or the rest of the NWT communities, Mr. Speaker, at $10,000 a year. On all accounts, the cost of living in Yellowknife significantly exceeds that of the rest of the NWT and Canada at about $8,000 over the yearly average.

Mr. Speaker, the Yellowknife Housing Authority has some 100 applications from people needing low cost housing. In 1999, the monthly rent for a two-bedroom apartment here was $986. Last year, it was $1,302; a 32 percent increase, Mr. Speaker. All levels of government, federal, municipal and territorial, can and should be assisting to a much greater degree in increasing the affordable housing stock.

Mr. Speaker, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation has largely backed out of its mandate to be the national leader for affordable housing, so what can we do here on our own in the NWT? Across our governments, I think things are possible. Municipal governments can look at zoning and other regulatory aspects. Designers and builders can look at the way we have a tendency to blast and fill. Can we do things that are going to do a better job of fitting in with the geography? Mr. Speaker, I believe we can all be more innovative and really make a difference for housing. I am going to have questions, too, for the Minister at the appropriate time today. Thank you.

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Thank you, Mr. Braden. Members' statements. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, Mr. Villeneuve.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the issue of the high cost of living in the North has always been the basis for many exchanges here in this House. This government has been both at the receiving end of the cost of living concerns from northerners for their own actions and, at the same time, advocating on behalf of northerners to the federal government about the high cost of living and why resource revenue sharing and devolution are important to addressing this concern.

Mr. Speaker, it can be argued that the cost of living in the North can work both for us and against us, depending on which area or department we are looking at. But, overall, I do not see any significant changes in many support programs of government that reflect or cater to offset the changes in a household's real cost of living. One such program which comes to mind is our support for traditional economies in the NWT, namely trapping, hunting and fishing.

Mr. Speaker, I am aware and commend this government that has made some significant improvements and positive changes that better serve the needs of trappers and fishermen in the NWT. Increases in trapper training and life skill programs within our schools, and working towards the modernization of our fishing industry to better compete on the global economy are just some of these positive steps taken. The area I want to bring to the attention is to the area of hunting and harvesting of big game, namely caribou, moose, muskox and bison.

Mr. Speaker, we can all agree that the high cost of living in our communities is definitely kept at bay by wild food that is hunted and gathered by many families in our small communities to offset these high costs of food prices at the local level.

Mr. Speaker, I want to emphasize this important contribution harvesters make to our culture and our communities, and keep this government moving forward on initiatives which will assist northern hunters and harvesters in determining and managing the short and long-term effects harvesting has on certain big game species. In other words, establishing reliable, concise and accurate baseline data is paramount to achieving a sustainable traditional economy and information from the community being the most reliable source. I would encourage our government to develop a comprehensive strategy to move forward a hunting and harvesting policy framework that incorporates the small community perspective and traditional practices. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

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Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. Members' statements. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Menicoche.

Mahsi cho, Mr. Speaker. Today, I would like to speak about my favourite person in the whole world. That is granny from Nahanni.

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Her story, Mr. Speaker, accurately reflects the story of the high cost of living that affects all of us northerners. She is basically a healthy, elderly woman that lives by herself in Nahanni. Her family takes loving care of her and visits her often. I, too, take my time to visit when I am there. During my last visit, I went to see her and I brought her a small gift as is customary when we are visiting elders. It was a tin of snuff. It is one of her simple pleasures that she enjoys. She says to me, thank you very much. I haven't had snuff for a while. I said, you get a pension. Didn't you buy any from the store? She says, no, I have to spend all my money on bills. With that, her life is simple and basic, Mr. Speaker, and her choices, like many low income and no income residents throughout the North, is governed by her fixed income.

Recently, Nahanni Butte had their fuel delivered for this season. Typically, we do that in all the small communities. The government provides fuel trucks and stocks them up for the whole year, but, last fall, when the prices of fuel skyrocketed throughout the world, Mr. Speaker, we had to adjust the prices in the small communities. Now it is stabilized. The price actually went down, but now, in the small communities, the prices are still high, like $1.40 in one of the smaller communities that I represent, and that is just not acceptable because we have a government that is unwilling to adjust that and fix that for them.

Mr. Speaker, all the people ever ask of us is to hear them and for us to be responsive to their needs. They see things in the national media like the federal government announcing some fuel rebates, Alberta giving fuel rebates and, in fact, even the new Conservative government is going to provide $100 a month. That is what they are looking for. What are we going to do? I am here to ask that on behalf of our people. Mahsi.

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Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Members' statements. The honourable Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes, Mr. McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, all of the communities we visited during our pre-budget tour, every one of them, and it probably applies to all 33 communities, have a real concern with the high cost of living in their communities. We listened as they spoke of the high cost of food, fuel, power and travel. Even the ability to harvest food off the land has become very expensive.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to stand up here and say that this government should be doing more, but, after listening to a presentation and hearing that this government spends $128 million on subsidies, 10 percent of our budget, I really don't have the right to stand up here and say that. I think what we need to do, Mr. Speaker, is start coming up with ideas. People have talked about the high cost of living for a long time. I think it is time to stop talking and start trying to do something about it.

The single biggest factor, I believe, to the high cost of living across the Northwest Territories, because we are so vast, is the high cost of fuel. It affects everything that happens in the Northwest Territories. With all of the resources that we have, Mr. Speaker, we should be able to refine some of our own fuel, and that may have a trickledown effect and bring the cost of living down across the NWT. Hopefully having a Mackenzie valley highway might help with the high cost of freight also.

Mr. Speaker, we have a lot of wealth in our territory, and it is time we start using some of that wealth and benefit some of our people and not just industry. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Members' statements. Reports of standing and special committees. Returns to oral questions. Recognition of visitors in the gallery.

It gives me great pleasure today to recognize a distinguished group of students in the gallery and a couple of teachers from Ecole Boreale in Hay River from grades 5, 6, 7 and 8, who are here to do a tour of the Assembly and view the proceedings, and also take in some other sightseeing tours and activities here in Yellowknife. I would like to welcome Krista Painchaud, Krysta Boyer, Gill Belanger, Desiree Boulanger-Rowe, Vanessa Roy, Eric Barry, Julia Gyapay, Mark Montinola, Alysa Gallardo, and Esther Hiebert. I would like to turn over to my colleague from Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen, to introduce the rest.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is a pleasure to welcome the students from Ecole Boreale who are here today with their teachers. I would like to recognize Simon Barry, Connor Goudreau, Neesa Lelaidier, Isabella Galan, Chantel Beck, Alexis Miller, Ilona Gyapay, Sydney Danielsen, Chantay Boulanger-Rowe, and teachers Sophie Call, and Michelle Pulvermacher.

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If I didn't say your name right, I do apologize. I did my best. Thank you. It is good to have you here.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The honourable Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Dent.

Mahsi. (English not provided)

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Thank you, Mr. Dent. (Microphone turned off)...my constituency assistant from Hay River, Debbie Mageean.

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Recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, Mr. Villeneuve.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to recognize and congratulate a constituent Wilfred Simon, better known as Rabbit, in the audience on his community wellness worker certification program. Welcome to the House, Rabbit. Thank you.

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Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I, too, would like to recognize the community wellness class here and congratulate them on their graduation. A constituent of mine, Byrne Richards is among this class. Byrne has demonstrated great leadership in this community through his work with the Tree of Peace on the addictions work in the city. Congratulations and welcome.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. I hope we haven't missed anyone in the gallery today. It is always a pleasure to have an audience. Welcome and enjoy the rest of your tour of Yellowknife. Oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In November of last year, I wrote to Minister Roland enquiring about our northern deduction. I am pleased to say that he did reply to me with a very positive response indicating that it was his intent to seek the support of other counterpart Ministers in the territories as well as affected provinces. Mr. Speaker, my question to the Finance Minister is, I would like to know what he has done to get any headway on this matter by bringing it forward to other Ministers to bring forward a united front to Canada about our northern deduction. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The honourable Minister responsible for Finance, Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, since writing and responding to the Member regarding the northern residents deduction, we have had a number of events occur throughout the country, the election being one. We haven't had a Finance Ministers' meeting for quite some time. There has been very little work done in that area, but it is something that we will be pursuing here in the very near future. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in light of the federal election that he pointed out, our newly minted MP has pointed out that it is going to be one of his top priorities to bring forward the concern about the deduction and the effect it has on the North. What is this Minister of Finance doing to make sure that he has a briefcase full of facts and information that will directly affect the Northwest Territories in a positive way? Is he working with his department to make sure this MP is ready to take on this challenge for our North? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I haven't had an opportunity to speak directly to the new Member for the Western Arctic. From within the department we have looked at the issue of the northern residents' deduction process and the impact it would have, both positive, and it would have an impact on our own revenue resources, as well, in the NWT. So we've done some work from within the department to prepare for our positioning. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Minister had mentioned about impacts and I'd like to lay a couple facts down. I have the annual inflation rate, which is from a Canadian web site for the federal government, and it said since 1988 inflation went up 147 percent in the Northwest Territories; since 1991, on the last $75 adjustment on that northern deduction, it's gone up 126 percent. So, Mr. Speaker, would this Finance Minister tell me today and make that commitment that he's going to put it as one of our top priorities in the next Finance Ministers' meeting, this northern deductions issue, to seek national support to bring forward a united front to the federal government? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it'll be one of the issues, but our more critical ones are ones that I've announced already during the budget process of the fact that we need a new formula financing arrangement, we need to deal with our borrowing limit, we need to deal with resource revenue sharing. The northern residents' tax deduction will be something that impacts not only in the Northwest Territories, but the other two territories, our neighbours, as well as many of the provinces that would have parts of the zones that fall in their area. It is something that I will raise with them and proceed to try to move forward with. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Short supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate the response by the Minister, but I do want to underscore

the fact that territorial residents, residents of Yellowknife, need real life solutions that they can feel in their pockets immediately, Mr. Speaker. So I'd like to hear how the Minister is going to put this into their little bucket of priorities, because I think this is something that we could move quite quickly on that people will feel immediately, rather than waiting for this resource revenue sharing agreement. So we need to hear what type of priority the Minister is going to put on this issue. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, to have the tax system changed takes a fair bit of work and coordination with other jurisdictions. One of the first things to do is to contact other jurisdictions, which we have done. In principle, a number of them are supportive, but want to see more details as it would affect their equations, as well. So it is one of the areas that we have started to make some contacts with and then have to have further discussion. But it is something that affects other jurisdictions, as well, and we have to work together on that. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Oral questions. The honourable Member for Kam Lake, Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions today are for the Honourable Joseph Handley, the Premier. It gets back to, again, my Member's statement from earlier and it has to do with the cost of living. I know that the issue of arctic sovereignty has been an issue that's been in the media quite a bit lately. The appetite for the Government of the Northwest Territories to attract and retain residents here is something that I think is very important. We have to make it advantageous for residents to live here. Although this year's a little bit different, we can't keep relying on our nice weather to try to attract people to live here, Mr. Speaker.

So I'd like to start off by asking, I know my colleague Mr. Hawkins asked the Finance Minister about what the plans were, and obviously there's an excuse now with the new government in Ottawa and all of a sudden things are stalled. We're working with the new government. But what about the last two-and-a-half years, Mr. Speaker? What has the government done to address the high cost of living here? I guess the first question I'd like to hear from the Premier is, when will the government start to get to work on some of the issues that I've raised in my Member's statement and other Member's have raised in this House? When can residents here in the Northwest Territories expect this government to deliver on some of these things? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The honourable Premier, Mr. Handley.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Let me say first of all, that, as one of the Members has mentioned, we are spending $128 million a year; an average of $3,000 per resident as a subsidy. So every day we're doing what we can to help with the cost of living. In addition to that, Mr. Speaker, there are a number of initiatives underway. The one the Minister of Finance just referenced, that is with the northern residents' deduction. That is one that we will be looking at as an immediate way, assuming we can attract the federal government's interest in it. We also have a number of long-term issues we're dealing on. Energy costs is a big one, looking at hydro. Transportation costs. We're looking at creative proposals on Corridors for Canada and connecting Canada from Coast to Coast to Coast to reduce the transportation costs. One the honourable Member has mentioned often is reducing the cost of government, and that's one that's very much in consideration all the time as we're doing business as a government. Mr. Speaker, there are a number of other things we're doing on increasing employment. We all know that if more people are working, more people are earning incomes, then that is going to help to meet the rising cost of living in the North.

So, Mr. Speaker, there's a whole range of things we're doing all the time and we don't grumble about the subsidies we have to provide, the $128 million, but it is an ongoing cost to our government and a necessary one. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wasn't going to go down this line of questioning, but I think the door's been opened slightly, so I think I will attempt this. I know the number of $128 million that the government spends on subsidies has been mentioned before. I think the reason we spend $128 million on subsidies is because our residents need some help, Mr. Speaker, and there's a good reason that we spend that money. We also spend $440 million a year, that's 44 percent of our annual budget, on salaries and benefits for employees. I'd like to ask the Premier, what game plan has he got to try to address government spending in the size and growth of government so that we can spend more money on the people who actually need the money, Mr. Speaker? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Handley.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. While it may seem that a lot of that money that we're spending on government employees is somehow not getting to the people, I have to say that the biggest piece of that money goes to people who are working in the social fields. In education, the teachers, in health and social services, the health workers, the doctors, those people who are helping our people to have healthier lifestyles and to be able to become much more self-sufficient. So a lot of that money

goes toward helping our residents. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my contention all along with the growth and the size of government in the Northwest Territories is that it's not sustainable over the long run. I'm wondering if the government's ever done any types of calculations to try to figure out what that cost is going to be going forward, or we just continue to grow for the sake of growth, Mr. Speaker. Again, 44 percent of our annual budget is a big piece of that budget. I'd like the Premier to answer that question. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Handley.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Let me just say that we never have government growth just for the sake of growth. I don't know anybody who's ever put that argument forward to us and saying give me more staff just for the sake of more staff. We put the staff in positions where we feel they can help us in our government objectives. Those are shared with the Members and that's the purpose of our budget debates. So, Mr. Speaker, we're prepared to defend every position that we put in government. If we're not able to defend it successfully, we'll remove it from the budget.

Mr. Speaker, there isn't another government, possibly with the exception of Nunavut, who spends as much on the subsidies to residents as we do. Mr. Speaker, let me say that there is over $6,000 a year per resident that is lost to us in resource revenues. It goes to the federal government. We don't see it back. That's why resource revenue sharing, Mr. Speaker, has to be an important piece. That's worth at least $6,000 per resident that we don't see. That will continue to be our top priority. Of course, government spending is an issue to us all the time, as is reducing transportation costs and so on. But the big one is to get the money that is earned in the North to stay in the North to help our people here. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Short supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wouldn't argue that with the Premier, but I think the other part of that is debatable in terms of government growth. It's very interesting if you watch the progression of the budget how certain departments might lose positions and then miraculously they're replaced with other positions. Any chance this government -- and I've watched it the last two-and-a-half years -- has had to make substantial changes in the size and growth of the public service, it's chose not to do it for whatever reason, Mr. Speaker. I'd like to ask the Premier, how do we tackle this issue? How do we get more money into people who actually need it on the ground? I'm not saying no to subsidies, Mr. Speaker, and I'd like the Premier to answer that question. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Handley.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Well, the direct answer to that is through our review of the main estimates. As we go through department by department, then I encourage all Members in this House to point out to us where we shouldn't be spending money. I know some of them do it and we listen and take that into consideration as we build our business plan. So, Mr. Speaker, its collective wisdom in this House that sets the strategic goals of this House. It's our wisdom here that sets what the budget will be. We all share that responsibility as we go through the main estimates. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Oral questions. The honourable Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, a lot of housing programs have emerged over the years and I'd like to direct my questions to the Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation. We have programs for homeownership, emergency repairs, seniors' repairs, a number of different programs. Does the NWT Housing Corporation have a program directed specifically to the need of renovating your home to conserve energy? A lot of people have older homes and they could save a lot of money if they could replace their doors or windows, or upgrade their insulation. I'd like to know if there has ever been, or is being contemplated, any kind of a program for homeowners under the NWT Housing Corporation for energy conservation. Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The honourable Minister of Housing Corporation, Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we have been able to access federal funding on the new affordable housing initiatives that we have in place. The federal government has announced $1.6 billion in which we were able to access $1.3 million of that to assist people doing retrofits in regards to energy-efficient upgrades to make their homes more energy efficient. So there is a national program that we're able to access through CMHC. We are now having those resources and we'll be able to not only assist people to improve their housing conditions, but also making them more energy efficient.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It wasn't too clear from the Minister's answer if that's a program that's being planned, or if it's already in place. If it's already in place, could the Minister please share with

us how people who need to upgrade their homes to make them more energy efficient could access those dollars? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we have been working nationally with other Housing Ministers from across the country. As part of the plan nationally, we've heard announcements made in The National, from the federal government, that they are looking at assisting people to do retrofits, but it is application-based. The people who want these programs, to be able to access this funding, have to apply for it through the different programs that we have, and one of them you touched on was...(inaudible)...in regards to, and we also have emergency repair funding programs. Again, we are working with our federal colleagues to find new ways, and a lot of these dollars that I mentioned are coming by way of Bill C-48, which was $1.6 billion. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In my Member's statement I made reference to the initiative of the South Slave housing district office investigating this concept of a high energy-efficient subdivision for which there is a prototype in Alberta. Prior to constructing the new homes that are on the books with the NWT Housing Corporation, would the Minister commit to following up on that concept, perhaps going to Okotoks, Alberta, with some of the representatives from the Hay River office looking at this before you embark on any more construction? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'll definitely commit to the Member. We are interested in that type of construction, but also there is a national program which I believe we're allocated one unit as a test unit for the Northwest Territories, which is basically called zero-emission homes where it admits zero pollutants into the air. This is a program federally. We were allocated money to try one pilot project, but we have not received that money yet. So we are looking at that. So I'm willing to work with the Member to look at what's happening in Alberta. There are a lot of strides across the country to look at energy-efficient homes. So I'd like to leave that door open with the Member in Hay River to take a look at that. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Oh, I'm sorry. That was my...

Oh, it's Thursday. Oh, my gosh, I get another question. Okay. Sorry about that. So with respect, then, going back to the idea -- and I have to commend the Hay River office for being on top of this -- going back to the idea of actually going down to Okotoks and looking at this, I mean, it doesn't cost a lot of money to go look. I didn't get a firm answer. Before we embark on the next round of new housing units and before the design is complete and the plans are in place, would the Minister agree that we will investigate all possibilities, particularly this one that's come to my attention, before we start building more houses? I think it's 100 and some million dollars that we have for houses. Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I will commit to the Member that I will sit down with her and look at an arrangement to look at these units in Okotoks and see exactly how we can implement some of that technology in the North. So I'm committed to that. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Oral questions. The honourable Member for Range Lake, Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask my questions on high cost of living and high cost of doing business to the Minister of Finance. Mr. Speaker, it's been stated here many times today that the government subsidizes $128 million worth to our people. But if that's not reducing the cost of things for people, obviously it's not. You go to Tuktoyaktuk or Aklavik, you have to spend many dollars to get a loaf of bread. Prices are going up and up in Yellowknife and one of the things that I've been talking about is cost of doing business.

Mr. Speaker, one of the suggestions posed here is that we should ask the federal government for reduction in cost of living exemption in income tax. I do understand that there are costs to that. Could the Minister of Finance tell this House about, because our tax system is linked to the federal government that if the reduction does go ahead there will be less money coming into territorial coffers, as well as the federal government. Could the Minister just explain that, please? Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. The honourable Minister of Finance, Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, to get into the actual detail of our arrangements with the federal government and tax sharing arrangements would take up a significant amount of time. The Member is correct, though. There is a link to the way our tax is calculated between just ourselves and the federal government. For example, for every $1,000

increase in the northern residents' deduction, that would impact us directly by about $1 million. So that would offset, we would lose that much revenue for that kind of a change. As well, the arrangement we have with the federal government, we've had to do some calculations in that area and, again, because we're linked together, there would be another spin-off to that that would not be on the positive side for ourselves. But the immediate impact we look at is approximately for $1,000 of increase in that deduction amount, would impact us by negative $1 million. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I guess we should be mindful as legislators that whether it's a tax and income tax reduction or GST or cost of living, I mean, there's benefit to getting more money into people's pockets, but also we have to look into the cost-benefit analysis of the reduced income to government and that's always a big issue here.

Mr. Speaker, I think one way we could deal with the cost of reduction is to help small businesses reduce the cost of living. The Minister of Finance indicated that he is working on a package to deal with that, but he didn't give a commitment as to when we should be expecting to see that. I would like to know if he could give a more specific date on that, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we have done some work with the Department of ITI in the area of support to small businesses. It's early in the process of trying to see if there are ways where we can look at the small business tax rate as well as some of the other support we have in place, and how we can offset one to the other to help create or keep small businesses being competitive here in the Northwest Territories. I don't have an actual timeline laid out, if it would be six months from now that we'd be able to come back with a package. We'll have to look at the impacts of some of these other changes, as well, that we've announced. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Mr. Speaker, I'm afraid I'm going to have to ask the Minister to put more discipline on this exercise. Mr. Speaker, we have been talking about cost of living for residents for many years now, throughout the time of this Assembly. One of the ways to reduce cost of living for people is to reduce the cost of doing business for small businesses. When it costs more to get a cup of coffee, get a hamburger, get a pizza, go out to eat or buy clothing, that all adds up to the cost of living. These taxes for the small businesses here are higher than our neighbours in Alberta or B.C. So why can he not look at a package that would help our small businesses? He's had about three years to deal with that. Could I get him to commit to bringing it to us in the next couple of months? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the small business tax rate can affect business in a number of ways. One is just the general percentage that we would apply. The other is the total amount that would apply for that initial rate before the large corporate tax portion would kick in. So there's a number of ways we can do that. Again, we will continue to do our work and try to have something for Members to look at before or around our spring session. We'll try for that. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I've raised this issue a lot this week, but I cannot say, I cannot emphasize enough that the small businesses in Yellowknife are struggling. They've had it with the high cost of fuel, power, to hire people, to keep people, and the paper burden. They could really do with a break here. I would really look forward to seeing a package and have the Minister come within the next two months to review a change, Mr. Speaker. Could the Minister give me that? Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I just stated earlier, I'll try to have something put together for Members to review by our spring session. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Final, short supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Am I to understand that the Minister is talking about the June session? Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Roland.

Yes, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Oral questions. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Menicoche.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I'd just like to ask some questions with respect to National Childcare Strategy that's being proposed by our federal government. Our low income and non-income people in

the small communities really won't benefit from this strategy. I was just wondering if the Minister responsible will be prepared to also bring a hammer to Ottawa and say, look, in the North we need this to support our families and our communities and get them to work and get them to school so we can have a workforce there, Mr. Speaker. If the Minister can respond to that, please. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. The honourable Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I know in early discussions with other jurisdictions around Canada that a number of provinces in particular are very strongly pushing the new federal government to continue with the Childcare Program that had been announced by the previous government. It would certainly be, I think, in our interest to see that program continue. I have already asked that our department work with the other two territories to ensure that at least if other jurisdictions are going to see the second year of funding for that program, that we also see that funding and that it reflect the commitment that the Conservative Prime Minister made during the campaign, that we would have base plus funding for the North. So we are going to try and make sure that we at least get two years' funding out of that program. But I would agree with the Member that it would be in the best interest of low income northerners to see the program that had been previously negotiated continue.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mr. Menicoche.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I'm in absolute agreement that we're going to have to continue with the way we were going with the National Day Care Strategy that the new federal government is going to nix, basically, and provide everybody $1,200. But money is not the answer for our smaller communities, Mr. Speaker. I'd like to know when would be the next opportunity for our Minister to reflect our interests and our needs at the national level. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I understand it, tentatively the provincial and territorial Ministers responsible are looking at a meeting in April. It would be expected that the federal Minister responsible would also attend and we would hope to take the issue up with the federal government at that time.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mr. Menicoche.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I just want to add that a lot of the needs coming from the communities are infrastructure. So something like $1,200 or $100 a month for each child under six really doesn't address the needs in the communities of having that space available and that infrastructure alone. So if the Minister will also reflect the need for infrastructure funding when he does meet with the Minister, Mr. Speaker. Mahsi.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd be happy to take that message to that meeting. I am aware that the current plan would also involve some credits to employers who provided spaces for childcare. As I understand it, the credit would be in the area of $10,000 per seat. Again, if that is going to be the route that we're going to see followed, I would take the argument that we should see more, a higher rate for businesses in the North, and I will take to the federal government the point that we don't have very many large employers in our smallest communities. So we need to have some kind of accommodation to help us make that program actually deliver more seats in our smallest communities. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Menicoche. Oral questions. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, Mr. Villeneuve.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. As I stated earlier today in my Member's statement, Mr. Speaker, I just wanted to make a few facts known that the harvesting activity in the NWT is on the rise with the rising cost of living, too. More people are relying on harvested meat and fish. Forty percent of northerners, or 17,000 people in the NWT, are harvesting these days, and 20 percent of our total population are harvesting all of their needs for their meat and fish. That's quite a significant number, Mr. Speaker. My question I wanted to ask the Minister responsible for Industry, Tourism and Investment, or ITI, with the conflicting stories that we get in the newspapers and from locals about, from traditional long-time northerners, some outfitters and tourists and transients, and new northerners, as I like to call them, there's always conflicting stories on estimates of herd numbers and harvesting practices. So I just wanted to ask the Minister what methods of information gathering or researching is his department embarking on to give us a more realistic number on herd development and harvesting. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. The honourable Premier, Mr. Handley.