Mahsi, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, the committee wishes to consider Bill 21, Appropriation Act 2007-2008, specifically Public Works and Services. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Is the committee agreed?

Okay. We'll commence with that after a break. Thank you.

---SHORT RECESS

Good afternoon, members of Committee of the Whole. I will call the meeting back to order. We are now reviewing the Department of Public Works and Services. At this time, I would like to ask the Minister responsible for Public Works and Services if he has any comments.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am pleased to present the Department of Public Works and Services' main estimates for the fiscal year 2007-2008.

The main estimates propose a department operations and maintenance budget for 2007-2008 of $51.8 million and an infrastructure investment plan of $8.4 million. This is a 9.9 percent increase over the 2006-2007 Main Estimates.

The Department of Public Works and Services provides management, technical and support services to departments and communities.

The department also manages an additional $141 million for projects and services on behalf of its clients through revolving funds, chargebacks and capital transfers. These funds are used to provide computer and data communications for government offices, fuel services for residents, businesses and NWT Power Corporation in 22 communities.

Overall, Public Works and Services contributes to achieving government-wide goals and appropriate balance for high quality services for our residents and operating within the limits of our current budgets.

I would like to take a moment to mention the Wood Pile Remediation Program. The progress made to date includes:

• • stabilization of the Grandfather Ayha School in Deline;
• • inspection of 1,400 piles under 16 buildings;
• • foundation rehabilitations to Arctic Family Medical House and Aurora College's trade shop in Inuvik and the nurses' residence in Aklavik.

All of these are important community, regional and territorial facilities that contribute, in a positive way, to achieve the government's long-term objectives.

In this last fiscal year, the department has implemented several energy conservation initiatives to reduce energy costs for the GNWT such as:

• • infrared thermal scanning of GNWT and community buildings;
• • inspection of building mechanical and electrical systems;
• • planning for the conversion of GNWT buildings to electric heat in Fort Smith;
• • application of guidelines for energy conservation design in GNWT buildings;
• • biomass heating system in the North Slave correction facilities.

The department also provides information systems and communication services for use by the government. More and more, the ability of the government to provide services to northern residents is dependent upon the availability of secure and reliable information and communication systems. This centralized service plays a key role as we make the necessary investments to upgrade outdated technology equipment and systems.

Another important role for this department is to be a key member of the GNWT team responsible for ensuring the quality of community drinking water, working closely with the departments of Health and Social Services, Municipal and Community Affairs, and Environment and Natural Resources.

Finally, I would like to mention the provision of essential fuel services. Through the petroleum products revolving fund, Public Works and Services funds the provision of heating fuel and gasoline in communities where a commercial operation does not exist. In December 2005, petroleum products division was contracted by the NWT Power Corporation to supply required fuel volumes and manage its tank farm facilities in a number of the communities. This includes providing safe tank farms in these remote locations, as well as contracting with and training local fuel delivery agents to provide the services. These agents have an important function in their

communities, and Public Works and Services works with them to carry out this important service.

Public Works and Services continues to be responsive to its many clients and to provide a high level of support to departments and the people of the NWT. The budget that we are reviewing today will contribute to achieving this objective.

That concludes my opening remarks. I would be happy to answer any questions Members may have.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. At this time, I would like to call on Mr. Ramsay with regard to the Department of Public Works and Services. Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The committee met with the Minister and his officials on September 21, 2006, to review the draft business plan of the Department Public Works and Services.

The committee considered the department's draft main estimates on January 16 and 17, 2007.

Committee members made note that the department is proposing to spend $52 million in operations expense and $8.4 million on capital projects in fiscal year 2007-2008.

Committee members offer the following comment on issues arising out of the review of the 2007-2008 Draft Main Estimates and budget-planning cycle:

Pile Inspection And Repair Program

At present, PWS is maintaining 60 buildings with an age of 30 years or more. Many of the wooden piles supporting GNWT infrastructure are reaching the end of their service life. PWS has established a formal Risk Management and Safety Program to ensure safe occupancy and operation of GNWT building infrastructure.

The Governance and Economic Development committee supports this initiative. The committee does not want to see any injury or harm come to the occupants of these buildings, or expose the GNWT to greater liability. We must make the necessary investment to maintain these buildings as long as possible, as there is insufficient funding for replacement in the capital plan.

Recommendation

The Standing Committee on Governance and Economic Development recommends the Pile Inspection and Repair Program continue in order to address the building condition and safety issues identified in the building condition reports.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. At this time, I would like to ask if the Minister would like to bring in witnesses.

Yes, Mr. Chairman.

Does committee agree?

Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses in.

Thank you. Mr. Minister, can you introduce your witnesses, please?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To my right is Mike Aumond, deputy minister of Public Works and Services; to my left is John Gabel, director of Technical Services Centre.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. General comments. Mr. Villeneuve.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to thank the Minister for his opening comments on Public Works and Services' initiatives for the upcoming year and the year beyond. As he is well aware with the opening comments from the GED committee on the Wood Pile Remediation Program, they are going to continue on with that, but I also wanted to talk about the energy conservation initiatives that Public Works is understanding. I know a lot of Members have been bringing up the point to the Minister in a lot of meetings we had with the Department of Public Works and Services about the conversion of GNWT buildings to electric heat, not only in Fort Smith but also on all the hydro serviced communities in the South Slave region. It would definitely be a huge undertaking to make the conversion, but I think the savings in the long run would definitely be beneficial for the government in reducing greenhouse gases and in saving money for the government's O and M. I really want to stress the importance that this initiative would mean to a lot of people in the South, not just GNWT buildings. I think a pilot project like this would send a strong message out to private industry and businesses that there is a savings in converting to electricity in the South Slave region especially where we are on the hydro grid. I just wanted to ask the Minister if the pilot project that they are doing in Smith, what is the status of it? Is there a bigger plan for them to convert, like the schools and hospitals and all government buildings and not just those but even assist in providing NGOs with electric heat in the South Slave region? Is there a big plan that's going to come after this pilot project is complete? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, with regard to the electric heat pilot project we are doing in Fort Smith, we have looked at the possibility of 14 facilities in Fort Smith. We are focussing on three. The issue we have with the power supply is there is a surplus right now, but because there is potential of the Taltson system coming on, we are not sure how much of that surplus maybe used to sell to the mines. That's why we are looking at it as a five-year pilot project and look at the possibility of the type of savings we are going to achieve through electric heat compared to the cost of heating those facilities with diesel heat and, more importantly, that through the Power Corporation, if they do have the surplus power going forward into the future. That's why we are looking at a pilot project. Again, if the technology is there and we see the savings, we are definitely open to looking at other facilities in communities. We are looking at the college facilities and health centres and schools.

I think it's more important with the energy plan that's coming forth, we are looking at this as one of the means. We touched on a couple of questions in the House. We are looking at biomass by way of pellet heat systems. We

have to be open minded that we have to develop an energy plan right across the Territories. We try these pilot projects in different locations, but we have to make sure that we are able to carry those out from other locations if possible. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Villeneuve.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Again, I just wanted to stress that this pilot project is really something very important that Public Works and Services get under way with. I think it's way overdue. There has been reports coming out on the use of interruptible power through the hydro grid system, through all these South Slave communities. If Public Works and Services was presented with some options with reviews on how they could use this interruptible power, whether it be from 6:00 p.m. to 6:00 a.m. or doing the switchover to electric power, there was quite a few recommendations on how they could use this interruptible power which equates to about 10 megawatts that we haven't been using for the last 20 years. We are finally coming to terms with it only after the energy crisis going through the ceiling. It seems to be a reaction instead of a pro-action on the part of the government when reports come out on initiatives that we should have undertaken a long time ago when the reports were actually drafted instead of waiting for costs to skyrocket before we can actually realize savings in the long term.

I would just like to ask the Minister if he has compiled any information with respect to what government buildings are being converted over, what potential ones could be converted over in the next couple of years, not just in Smith but the whole South Slave region. Is there any cost associated in today's dollars of what those costs are going to be? Over the long term, I would go 10 years after the hydro is expanded, if it is. Has there been any research into the savings that the NWT residents would save in public dollars with respect to switching over? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, we haven't gotten really into that detail of a survey. Right now, we are strictly focussing on Fort Smith at this time. Like I mentioned, we are looking at the possibility of 14 buildings. We want to try it out in three right now. Also, we are looking at trying to find ways of using different types of technologies that are out there. Again, we also have to realize that the community grid system has to be able to take on this excess power under the existing, so that's why we're working with the Northwest Territories Power Corporation to ensure that we do have the capacity not only to do it, but also to have the capacity, too, for the community systems so that we don't have power interruptions and whatnot which will cause the system to fail because of we don't have the upgrades that's going to have to be made by the Power Corporation, which there will have to be capital investments made in that area.

But I'd just like to say to the Member that we are looking at developing an energy plan. We're also looking at the greenhouse gas emission survey that's being done. But I think we, as government, are reviewing our public infrastructure to see the consumption. I think it's pretty easy to see it through this program. I believe we're in charge of about nine-point, nine-tenths of a cent, which is less than one cent per kilowatt through this agreement with the Power Corporation right now, with the possibility that after five or six years we're looking at paying six cents. But right now most of the residents are paying 10 cents a kilowatt.

So we are looking at the economics of it. Right now diesel fuel is roughly about 76 or 77 cents a litre. So I mean, you sort of look at the math and it does make sense to do this in most of our communities and the savings are definitely there. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Villeneuve.