Good afternoon, colleagues. Welcome back to the House. Orders of the day. Ministers' statements. The honourable Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Good afternoon. The third Monday in February each year is recognized across Canada as Heritage Day.

This year, the national theme is the celebration of "vernacular architecture" meaning those structures built by ordinary people, rather than by professionally trained architects. In the Northwest Territories, this term encompasses everything from the archaeological remains of tents in the forest and driftwood dwellings on the Arctic Coast, to still standing residential and commercial buildings built by people who arrived in the North more recently. These structures are a record of where we settle, where we grow, what we need, where we live, where we work, where we do business, where we learn and where we worship.

The Department of Education, Culture and Employment, in partnership with the Government of Canada, is helping three communities recognize and conserve their historic and culturally important places.

In Aklavik, the Ehdiitat Gwich'in Council and the Gwich'in Social and Cultural Institute are documenting the vernacular architecture of local cultural places.

In Tsiigehtchic, the Gwichya Gwich'in Council and the Gwich'in Social and Cultural Institute are working to recognize the history and architecture of Church Hill.

The Tulita Dene Band Council and the Fort Norman Historical and Heritage Society are preparing a conservation plan for the old Anglican Church of Tulita, a territorial historic site. The old Anglican Church of Tulita is one of the oldest standing buildings in the NWT. Its finally crafted dovetailed log structure is an excellent example of the vernacular building style of local craftsmen in the early 1880s.

The City of Yellowknife Heritage Committee is celebrating this year's Heritage Day theme concurrent with the celebration of the 40th anniversary of Yellowknife becoming the capital. Yellowknife is well known for its home-built architecture. The heritage committee has organized an art show at the Prince of Wales Northern Heritage Centre featuring that aspect of Yellowknife's history and character. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Thank you, Mr. Dent. Ministers' statements. The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as Members of this House are aware, the labour dispute at the Nats'ejee K'eh, NJK, Treatment Centre has been resolved. I am pleased to announce that treatment services will again be available at the centre the week of March 21st.

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I would like to thank both parties for their dedicated efforts, particularly over the last few weeks, in negotiating a successful conclusion to this labour dispute. Sometimes resolutions to such disputes are difficult to achieve, and this was no exception.

NJK Treatment Centre is an integral part of an overall mental health and addictions strategy that focuses on community-based support and counselling. Each year over 150 northern residents are referred to Nats'ejee K'eh for treatment. The treatment centre provides co-ed, gender specific and couples programs, as well as follow-up and support programs. NJK also operates a 24-hour crisis line for clients that have gone through the program.

I am pleased that a long-term agreement has been reached and I expect this will bring the stability we need to this important service. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Ministers' statements. Members' statements. The honourable Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the number one identified priority of Canadians has recently been cited to be the stewardship of our natural environment. One could argue that the population in the Northwest Territories and the population so minute in the grand scheme of world greenhouse gas generation that what we do doesn't really matter. If we have a vast and pristine country with unlimited clean air and water, why would we concern ourselves with the amounts of greenhouse gases that we contribute?

Just look at any major highway in southern California on any given day. Look at the number of jets flying the global skies; look at the concentration of industry in developed

countries and then look at us, a little speck of people on a big map.

Some would make the argument that no matter what we do, we are still going to be the place where a lot of pollution ends up. I am sure some of the contaminants that have been detected in our free-ranging wildlife in the North isn't from pollutants that were generated by anyone living in the North.

Mr. Speaker, I submit to you that if everyone took an attitude of not me, no one would go first in addressing the consumption of energy and how it is affecting the world that we live in. The world is getting smaller every day in terms of travel and communication, and actions in one part of the world significantly impact another part, even if it's far away.

We have a lot of good reasons why we should conserve energy. For one thing, it would save money. For another, it would preserve the environment. Every time I hear about the energy-hungry markets for natural gas and oil in southern Canada and the U.S. market and the need for jurisdictions like ours and Alberta's with natural resources to respond to that demand, I think to myself why don't we slow it down, build more energy-efficient buildings, drive more energy-efficient vehicles, find clean alternate energy sources.

How do we get off this merry-go-round of thinking we need more consumables, bigger homes, bigger cars? We spend our lives in the pursuit of things that consume our money, our time, our life and, ultimately, our environment.

Mr. Speaker, I resist the theory that more is better. I think that's what we all need to do if we're going to lessen the impact of this generation on our environment. I don't know how we get buy-in for being more minimalist in our expectations and our wasted resources, but this government and the people of the North definitely do have a role to play. We need community energy plans. We need personal energy plans. This government needs to be the leader, create incentives and assist people in making choices which are more environmentally and economically sound, and where this government is the designer, builder and owner of much infrastructure, we also need to implement strong principles of conservation. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Thank you, Ms. Groenewegen. Members' statements. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, Mr. Villeneuve.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Today, being the day for this side of the House to try and energize this government to address the high cost of energy here in the NWT, I would just like to speak on the energy issues in smaller communities and more remote centres, where the impact of small changes in energy costs have a real large impact in our remote communities in relation to the overall cost of living here in the NWT.

Mr. Speaker, the energy efficiency issue always presents many challenges for private homeowners and private businesses in our remote communities; issues like the access to information and technology on energy efficiency and some methods to reduce it. There are only certain times of the year where businesses can afford to bring in such large pieces of equipment like freezers and coolers, or households bring in slightly smaller equipment like washers and dryers, or dishwashers, hot water tanks and other similar energy-efficient appliances, because of the high cost of moving freight here in the NWT. Other huge challenges in small communities are the lack of qualified people in these remote communities. When there's no one to install your energy-efficient furnaces or your energy efficient hot water tank, or your wood pellet stove, why buy one? If there's nobody to install your energy-efficient doors or windows or put on your energy-efficient siding, why purchase those? Even to find somebody to tune up your vehicle to make it more energy efficient in these smaller communities is always a challenge. Getting any of these things done in a timely manner is one of the things that all these small communities are faced with.

I'd just like to see many more of these types of costs included in all these energy efficient loan programs that are proposed by ITI and ENR, and also in the Housing Corporation's new CARE Program to provide grants to renovate or upgrade homes for great energy efficiency and conservation. These are all good initiatives with good intentions, Mr. Speaker. I persuade this government to expedite the rollout of these dollars and encourage all residents in both large and small communities to take full advantage of these initiatives that will only benefit everybody in the long term.

Just for the homeowners' information, Mr. Speaker, 1,000 litres of heating oil in your home roughly produces two to three tons of emissions. Just for some people to think about out there, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

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Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. Members' statements. The honourable Member for Monfwi, Mr. Lafferty.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, one thing I'm going to touch on is regarding energy efficiency. The price of heating oil and diesel has drastically increased over the years and will continue to rise. People are starting to look into alternative ways to heat their homes just so they can get by during the winter months. That's why the people in the communities, that's what we're looking into. What can we do to make it much better, to really look at it? This is what they call pellet stove. It is costly. To buy a stove it costs over $4,000 something. How can we help these people? That's what we're talking about. Mr. Speaker...(Translation ends)

...energy efficiency is a very important and worthwhile initiative here in the Northwest Territories. This has been an issue in the communities during our pre-budget consultation in the north and south sections of the Northwest Territories.

Mr. Speaker, the price of heating oil and diesel has drastically increased over the years and will continue to rise. People are starting to look into alternative ways to heat their homes just so they can get by during the winter months. Mr. Speaker, I realize that the GNWT has

subsidy programs to deal with energy efficiency, which is great to see. I think we need to go further, be specific on our subsidy programs. There may be some subsidy programs out there, but people are still confused as to where to turn for these so-called subsidies and what's available to them here in the Northwest Territories,

Mr. Speaker, I think it is time that this government invests in subsidizing wood pellet stoves and regular wood stoves. The installation of these stoves is very expensive. Some stoves can range from $4,500 to $10,000, depending on the size of the area to be heated and other considerations. Mr. Speaker, some elders and community members simply cannot afford to purchase an energy-efficient pellet or wood stove, let alone the additional cost for installation. This is where the GNWT needs to step up to the plate. Mahsi.

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Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Members' statements. The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Braden.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. In the world of energy consumption and the consequences of it, there is incontrovertible evidence, Mr. Speaker, that we are the ones causing it. There should no longer be any doubt whatsoever that we have got to take the responsibility for this. We can't go on blaming it on natural causes or thinking that, well, if we study it a bit longer or try and avoid it, it will go away. We have got to take responsibility for it. This is where we have to take on the responsibility and the mantle of leadership. We are the ones who collectively got ourselves into this mess, and we have to get ourselves out of it.

Mr. Speaker, my colleague from Hay River South pointed out that northerners and Canadians in the big global picture may not make much of a difference to the impact of climate change and greenhouse gasses, but we have got to, for ourselves and for our families, for our future generations, show the leadership that is going to be required. Even if our overall impact is small, we've got to be able to demonstrate to ourselves and to the world that we are taking responsibility, Mr. Speaker. Here in the Arctic we are the ones who are being impacted the most and the quickest by greenhouse gas accumulations around the world. Let's step up to the plate and show that we want to take responsibility.

Mr. Speaker, here in the North there are already some very good examples of that. Ecology North and the Dene Nation led a climate change leadership workshop last month to help us leaders learn more about climate change and what we can do about it. The Arctic Energy Alliance has been in place for some years now, established by this government to provide leadership and be a catalyst for energy innovations. Mr. Speaker, our Department of Public Works and the Department of Justice should be congratulated for showing their leadership when they installed a large wood pellet burning stove at the North Slave Correctional Centre. Mr. Speaker, I'd like unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

The Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. You may conclude your statement, Mr. Braden.

Thank you. Mr. Speaker, further to the wood pellet technology installed at the North Slave Correctional Centre, we're also seeing leadership from the private sector in the company Arctic Green Energy Limited, which pulled this technology from around the world and showed what benefit it can make. Mr. Speaker, I understand that we could be seeing savings from this in the neighbourhood of at least $50,000 in subsequent years.

Mr. Speaker, 95 percent of the electricity for the city of Yellowknife comes from hydro generation but each of us still emits 19 tons of carbon dioxide per person annually. That's just a little bit less than the average per person of our American neighbours. We can do something about it. Let's step up to the plate and show the leadership that will get us there, Mr. Speaker.

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Thank you, Mr. Braden. Members' statement. The honourable Member for Nunakput, Mr. Pokiak.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, MLAs on this side of the House have been speaking on energy efficiency and potential alternative solutions to energy use. We know that government has conducted community hearings to discuss alternative solutions for energy use within communities across the Northwest Territories.

Mr. Speaker, some ideas government has put forward is hydro expansion and, more recently, the use of wood pellet generation at the North Slave Correctional Centre in Yellowknife. These are just some of the examples that government is considering for alternative energy which would reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

Mr. Speaker, we all know the importance of alternative energy sources and, as one user of a diesel power heating system, we are looking at how we can reduce energy efficiency in our home. As a private homeowner, some work that we have done to date is replaced our electrical hot water heater to an oil furnace hot water heater system. Mr. Speaker, by converting to this, it has reduced our power by an average savings of about $200 a month. Other options we've done is conducting regular oil inspections on our furnace and by replacing the air filters regularly. Mr. Speaker, we've even spruced our lighting by converting to energy-efficient light bulbs. These are just some of the small items that we do to save energy, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, if government, industry, business and homeowners can do so much with small items in finding ways for alternative energy use, we will enjoy cleaner air and environment for the detriment of us and for our children in the future. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Thank you, Mr. Pokiak. Members' statements. The honourable Member for Kam Lake, Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today I'm going to speak about the cost of energy and the role it plays in the lives of all residents of our territory today and the importance of energy for the economic and social well-being of our territory into the future.

I want to start with power rates and, Mr. Speaker, I am trying to understand why some communities in the Northwest Territories today pay 25 to 35 percent more for power than other comparable communities. True examples of this are, firstly, the community of Trout Lake where power distribution is handled by Northland Utilities. When you compare that to a similar sized community which happens to be in the same region, such as Nahanni Butte, which has their distribution handled by the Northwest Territories Power Corporation, the rates are 20 to 25 percent higher than in Trout Lake. Another example, Mr. Speaker, is the community of Wekweeti, where again Northland Utilities is responsible for distribution, and the community of Whati, where NTPC handles the distribution, and rates are again 20 percent lower in Wekweeti, which has a much smaller population. I believe that as a government we have a responsibility to deliver the best, most affordable power rates possible to our communities and the residents who live there. I think there should be an investigation or an inquiry as to why this discrepancy exists, why in some communities residents are paying 20 to 25 percent higher rates than in other comparable communities. Something needs to be looked at, Mr. Speaker.

As a government looking into the future, we must move ahead with our partners in expanding the Taltson hydro facility. We need to look at other smaller hydro developments to power our communities. Wind power should also be thoroughly explored to power our communities.

The Power Corporation has a general rate application into the PUB and rates are proposed to increase. How can our residents continue to keep paying more for power? Our Power Subsidy Program, Mr. Speaker, is going to need to be re-evaluated. This government needs to take action on developing possible new energy resources and ensuring our people are getting the best possible deal on power. Our future depends on it, Mr. Speaker, and I'll have questions for the Minister responsible for the Power Corporation at the appropriate time. Mahsi.

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Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Members' statements. The honourable Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes, Mr. McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today with the high cost of utilities across the North we continue to try to find solutions to make houses more energy efficient as possible. We try to conserve energy, Mr. Speaker, by using energy-efficient appliances and finding alternative ways to heat our homes. I still find it unfair to northerners that we have land that is so rich in resources we have to continue to pay extremely high rates for all our utilities. Without many of the subsidies provided by the government, Mr. Speaker, people would have a difficult time up here to earn a living.

Mr. Speaker, there are many people today that try hard to earn an honest living, yet they seem to be the last to qualify for many programs because of their income. Many are taxpayers who help subsidize many of the programs. All they ask for is a fair opportunity to take advantage of the money being offered by this government. Are they asking for free money? I don't think so. But interest-free loans to help renovate their houses, because by the time they're done their mortgage payments, their utility payments, buy their food, there's not much left over for renovations and these are usually the last people that money is provided for.

I continue to commend the government for doing what they can to help with the high cost of living in the North, but we have to look after our hard-working and taxpaying citizens. A road down the valley would help bring some of the costs down across the North, Mr. Speaker. A percentage of the resource royalty money could provide interest-free loans to those who want it and will pay for it. We must give all northerners, Mr. Speaker, equal opportunity to take advantage of the programs being offered by this government. As we continue to find ways to save energy, we must protect the consumers from utility providers who will continue to raise the rates because of all of the energy we're saving using some of these initiatives. We have to continue to protect northerners, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

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Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Members' statements. The honourable Member for Range Lake, Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am going to jump on the energy debate later on in the motion, but for now I would like to speak today in support of an assisted living program in the NWT. Mr. Speaker, this would be for those in our communities with disabilities or health conditions who don't require constant medical attention and can live an active, independent life away from more expensive institutional care if they could only get some help for a few hours a week to take care of their basic everyday needs.

Mr. Speaker, a case in point is one young, very intelligent woman in my constituency who is almost completely blind. She does quite well taking care of herself, but she can't do everything. She needs help with getting groceries once a week and help with cleaning her apartment, especially getting rid of garbage down the stairs. When I visited her, she spoke of the difficulty of using her vacuum cleaner. She also had problems with her freezer, which had to be taken care of by third-party intervention.

Mr. Speaker, she gets volunteers and assistance from the Council for Disabled Persons, but without an established program of assisted living, it's asking a lot to expect the volunteers to do all these chores constantly. Same goes for the extended families. It's especially more taxing for those who don't have any extended family in the city, Mr. Speaker. I could tell you that such assisted program could also be helpful for seniors, as well as other people with disabilities.

Mr. Speaker, I am aware that there is a full-time assisted living with those who are severely disabled, but it seems that there is not anything if you're not completely disabled and I think it's in the interest of the government to set up a program for those who can live on their own but need some help.

Mr. Speaker, I think it's very important to point out that this is quite separate from home care and respite care that the government currently provides, but I know that a lot of extra demands that are being put on the home care and respite care are something that should be expected to do through those programs, but one that could be addressed by such assisted living scenario. I know the resources for the government are limited, but I think that in the long run this will be more economical in that we'll be able to keep these people out of institutional care. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Thank you, Ms. Lee. Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Before I begin, I'd like to wish everyone Happy New Year in Cantonese. We've just started the lunar Year of the Pig, so to all the Members of the House...(English not provided)

Mr. Speaker, today I'd like to talk about my concerns regarding the massage therapy business in the Northwest Territories. I'm referring to the concern about the registration and licensing of massage therapists or, better, the lack thereof. More and more Canadians and northerners are receiving massage therapy as an important component of their health care. It is of great concern that the NWT has no registration or licensing process in place recognizing the credentials of persons offering massage services.

What we have here is a public health and safety concern with a lack of rules and regulations. Many massage therapists voluntarily register through other jurisdictions, like British Columbia where the practice of massage therapy has been regulated since 1952, but there are no such requirements in the NWT to do so and it's pretty easy to get a business licence and hang a sign out your door.

The NWT has a registered massage therapist association affiliated with the Canadian Massage Therapist Alliance. The NWT association has no self-regulating jurisdiction over their profession like nurses and doctors, and membership is voluntary.

Practicing massage therapists are not required to register with the Department of Health and Social Services. There are no minimum requirements for their credentials or for their education.

The Canadian Massage Therapists Alliance and their members are lobbying provincial and territorial governments to establish legislation that would regulate the profession and introduce minimum standards. Members of the organization must provide proof of a minimum of 2,200 hours educational curriculum, adhere to continuing education requirements and code of ethics, and the professionals must have liability insurance. These requirements point in the right direction, Mr. Speaker. These are steps to protecting the people seeking massage therapy and to protect the people who are providing the service. A legislated standard would also assist people with their medical insurance claims and then they directly would be provided with health care provider services.

In the unregulated waters that exist now, we cannot guarantee that safe and complete coverage is out there. So all that we need to do, Mr. Speaker, it's in the best interest of the government to do what it does well, which is create regulation to protect citizens. Mr. Speaker, I will have questions at the appropriate time for the Minister of Health and Social Services. Thank you.

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Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Members' statements. Returns to oral questions. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd like to recognize Mr. Tim Durkin. He's in the gallery and he's a Rotarian with Mr. Dent and I. Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Oral questions. The honourable Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I said in my Member's statement, this government does have a large role to play in the conservation of energy in the Northwest Territories, whether it's providing incentives to private homeowners or looking at the infrastructure in the buildings that this government owns itself. This government is a very significant owner of infrastructure that consumes energy.

Mr. Speaker, I don't know how many years the excess power from the hydro at the Taltson dam has been flowing over the dam untapped, but it's got to be a long time because I've been talking about it in this House for 11 years. I don't know who to direct this question to, Mr. Speaker, but I would like to know when, with all the public buildings that have access to the transmission lines from the hydro at Taltson, when is this government going to tap into that and heat and light some of our buildings in the South Slave with hydro power? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The honourable Minister responsible for the NWT Power Corporation, Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we are in the process of looking at the feasibility of certain buildings in the communities. I mentioned that we are looking at three buildings in Fort Smith this year. There's also the possibility of 14 facilities that could be put on electric heat. But again, Mr. Speaker, it comes down to how much surplus is there and exactly the grid system we have in those communities, can they take the extra load, and also ensuring that we do have a long-term accessibility question to ensure we have the long-term ability to access that surplus power over a long period of time. So we are doing a feasibility study along with the Department of Public Works and Services and other government agencies. Again, this is one of the initiatives that we are putting forward in regards to the energy plan to ensure that we look at this in other communities such as using residual heat off power plants, taking a look at the biomass project we're looking at in regards to other facilities. So we are looking at other alternatives. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Mr. Speaker, all I can say is it's about time. Energy and fuel has been costing a lot of money for a long time now and we've had that excess power at the Taltson dam for a very long time. We talk about consistency and continuity of availability of that. I mean, we're talking about expanding the Taltson, for heaven's sake. So I mean, it's a waste. I'm sorry it's taking so long. I'm glad something's being done. Would the Minister also commit to looking at public buildings in Hay River as well for conversion or a dual system that would be partly hydro and perhaps have a backup system of some other form of energy? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we will attempt to look at other facilities again. Mr. Speaker, I'd just like to point out that we do have roughly about eight megawatts of surplus power, but we have to ensure that the grid systems in those communities can take that extra load. A good example is in Hay River, we were looking at the possibility of a pipe coating plant. Again, in order for that to work, we had to upgrade the whole grid system in the community because the system that we have now does not have the capacity to take on that extra load. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Mr. Speaker, I know the pipe coating facility would have taken a considerable amount of power in an industrial use, but we have government buildings in Hay River. We have the courthouse, we have our schools, we have the hospital, we have many facilities. We have an existing transmission system within the community for hydro. It seems like it should be a simple question to answer. Do we have a capacity to put an interruptible service or a dual service into those buildings? When could this be looked at? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'd just like to commit to the Member that we are working with the communities. We are working with the different agencies in those communities. There is a push now to develop community energy plans and that's where we're hoping that working in conjunction with community governments, community businesses, that we are able to expand our potential energy savings by way of heating facilities using hydro. So again, we are working together. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Final supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thought we only got three questions today. I'm getting confused. I'll just pass on the fourth. Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Oral questions. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, Mr. Villeneuve.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I'll continue on for my friend Mrs. Groenewegen, on the Power Corporation's pilot projects that they're doing in Fort Smith right now, and also I'd just like to get Fort Resolution on the bandwagon. We have lots of Public Works buildings there that could go on this residual power pilot project. But with what, I just want to reiterate what my friend Mrs. Groenewegen was saying, that it's way past due that we've looked at this. But I think one of the first steps that we have to do at the Power Corporation is we have to develop an interruptible power rate or residual power rate. That's the first step that we have to do to get any benefits out of these pilot projects, because with the price of fuel right now it's not really that high and with all the riders and everything and this equalization of power through the NWT, we're almost paying the same all over the place. So those pilot projects are going to really come out, in my eyes right now, really borderline energy efficiency in the eyes of the government because we don't have any other power rates. Can we get a residual power rate set by the Power Corporation or something looked at in that effect in order for these pilot projects to look viable? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. The honourable Minister responsible for the NWT Power Corporation, Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, again, we are developing an energy plan for the different communities. We're looking at the possibility of the energy used, regardless if it's from diesel heat or electric heat. We do also have to keep in mind there's a cost to changing the infrastructure that we do have in place by way of a single electrical grid going into a lot of these communities versus a heavier grid which goes to a lot of the larger centres. Also, we're realizing we're having more usage of power in communities by community expansion. So we have to build that into our capital planning process. So we have to work together, find ways to also look at saving energy, but also keep in mind that we will have to put a major investment in upgrading our grid systems into all our communities. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mr. Villeneuve.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I realize there's lots of work involved with switching over from diesel to electrical power. But I want to ask the Minister again, can the Power Corporation look at setting some kind of a residual power rate which not only will apply to public works buildings but everybody in general, so that homeowners, private citizens can make the investment to switch over from heating oil to electrical power at certain times of the day, evenings, weekends, whatever it takes, and take advantage of a residual rate which we could use this eight megawatts of power that's left over for the last 20 years at the Power Corp that's been in the territorial government's hands. Can we do that as a first step to get everybody on the bandwagon to saving energy, Mr. Speaker? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, again, we all know the process we have to go through to find power rates and exactly what's acceptable to everyone. Again, this is a new concept that's being thrown out there. We do have a rate application process which we put forward basically every two or four years. It goes through the Public Utilities Board process, and also we talk about one-rate zone, two-rate zones, and at some point we have to make a decision on that so we have a system that's fair to everyone, but also realizing we do have different types of energy communities; diesel, hydro and residual communities. So I think we do have to look at it in a context of how we basically develop our business case, but also realizing we do have a regulatory process we have to go through. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mr. Villeneuve.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, if the Power Corp did set a residual rate or an interruptible power rate today, I can guarantee you that we'd have a lot of buy-in from private businesses and residences alike. You know, if we hooked up the whole South Slave to a residual power, an interruptible power rate, the whole NWT benefits. You know, less power subsidies, less power rates for the South Slave, the North Slave, everybody. It's a win-win situation, Mr. Speaker. I just don't understand where the Power Corp or the Minister is coming from when he says we have to go through a process to set the rates, to do this, we're looking at that. You know, this is something that we should do and why can't we just do it and let the general public either follow up with the initiative or not? You know, it's a win-win for everybody and I think everybody will buy in. Why can't we put an application in for an interruptible power rate in the South Slave region or everybody that's on hydro as a first step? Can we do that? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I fully support the Member's endeavour to this, but again if we can get support from this House, from the government and also submit a proposal forward to the PUB making them aware that this is something they should seriously look at, I'm more than willing to do that. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Final supplementary, Mr. Villeneuve.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm sure the PUB has had access to many of the reports that have come out of this government that have been tabled in this House over the last 10 years on how we can save on power and how we can use all the residual power at the Taltson. Not to mention with the expansion, I'm sure we will still have some residual power with mines shutting down...

Do you have another question, Mr. Villeneuve?

...seriously look at some of these reports and putting some recommendations into place today? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'm glad we're having this debate today because I believe it is important that we do have to take some major steps to ensure that we have a decision on where we're going with energy in the Northwest Territories. I strongly support the Members for coming forward with some ideas and suggestions on how we can look at it, but again we have to develop a policy within this government, this Legislature, so that we know where we're going with power use. So again, Mr. Speaker, we are trying different attempts, we are coming forward with the energy guide, communities are developing their energy plans and

hopefully by doing it together we can come to a solution. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Oral questions. The honourable Member for Monfwi, Mr. Lafferty.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I highlighted in my Member's statement the need to take pellet wood stove into consideration as a main source of subsidy program within the government subsidy program, I'd like to ask the Minister responsible for Industry, Tourism and Investment what is the department's current subsidy program that deals specifically with energy efficiency when it comes to purchasing pellet or wood stoves? Mahsi.

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Honourable Minister responsible for Industry, Tourism and Investment, Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My department has some programs for commercial ventures we've been funding through the Arctic Energy Alliance for some time. But, Mr. Speaker, I think the main point is that we know we've got to do more in this area both for residential and commercial customers. We are proposing in the energy plan that we'll be rolling out soon -- we're hoping to table it in March -- a number of initiatives that would look at the kinds of things the Member is talking about. We do want to help people get their costs down and we want to work as a territory to instil a conservation ethic. So I think there are a number of good examples. Converting to wood burning or wood pellet stoves is one such example, and I believe we will have some programs that target that sort of initiative. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Supplementary, Mr. Lafferty.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there's a good example in the North Slave Correction heating system, an energy efficiency initiative. It's a great initiative that's been undertaken by the department. Great for the commercial perspective but, at the same time, we must take residential homeowners also into consideration. Mr. Speaker, I'd like to ask the Minister, are there plans in place to deliver the same system as North Slave Correction initiative into smaller communities? Mahsi.

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Mr. Bell.

Mr. Speaker, that was an initiative that was targeted. We needed another boiler system at the North Slave Centre and we thought that this was a great way to tackle that problem. I do think we need to be doing this in homes. We want to have that discussion with committee, about how we can apply this to residences and I think there are a number of things that we want to tie into, as well, including the eco funds that have been announced by the federal government. We don't have all the program details but understand some of that money will be available for renovations in homes. We think we can marry that with some help for people buying wood pellet stoves and probably come up with a comprehensive program that helps us save money and be more efficient and friendly for the environment. So that is one of the programs that we will be trying to develop over the coming weeks. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Supplementary, Mr. Lafferty.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, since I've touched on residential and the Minister spoke on commercial, I'd like to find out from the Minister about the commercial perspective, if that initiative is also going to be delivered in the smaller communities. I realize it's been very productive here in Yellowknife with North Slave Correction. So is that initiative coming forward to the smaller communities? Mahsi.

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Mr. Bell.

Mr. Speaker, we will be, as part of this energy plan, talking about setting internal GNWT targets for greenhouse gas emissions. That's going to mean we're going to need to do some things right across the territory in order to meet those objectives. But in terms of assets outside our own inventory, yes, we want to work in small communities to look at options for improving efficiency and lowering costs. We know one of the biggest factors that inhibit business in our small communities is the cost of electricity; stories of stores; the local store having a 70 or 80 thousand dollar power bill. You've got to charge a lot for milk and bread to make it up on milk and bread for what you have to pay for in power and we don't think that's sustainable. So we're going to have to work to help small communities through that problem. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Final supplementary, Mr. Lafferty.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the key question, I guess, of when can we see this residential heating system initiative going into the smaller communities? When? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Mr. Bell.

Mr. Speaker, we're going to move very quickly. I know that the committee members have been urging us for some time now to bring in a green financing program. We think we've got a program that will meet the needs of small communities and large communities right across the North. We're proposing to be able to roll that out in March, if we can table the energy plan. We'll have further discussions with committee

around this, and let me say I know that committee members have been urging us to do this and we will respond. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Oral questions. The honourable Member for Kam Lake, Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'll go back to my Member's statement from earlier to get my questions for the Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Power Corporation. I want to start off by saying I do believe the government has a responsibility to the people it represents to get the best possible rates in our communities and, Mr. Speaker, that's not evident today. I spoke earlier of two examples: Trout Lake and Nahanni, 20, 25 percent difference in the rates there; one serviced by Northland Utilities, the other by the NTPC. In the Dogrib region, in Monfwi, the community of Wekweeti serviced by Northland Utilities, Whati is serviced by the Northwest Territories Power Corporation; 25 percent difference. Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister responsible for the Power Corporation how it is possible, or if he can explain how it is possible, that comparable communities in the Northwest Territories have that great of an extent of a difference in power rates. Mahsi.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The honourable Minister responsible for the NWT Power Corporation, Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as we all know, we do have two utility companies in the Northwest Territories. I think you have to also realize the cost to operate the Northwest Territories Power Corporation, which covers more communities in the Northwest Territories and also it has a larger workforce. It also has a unionized workforce. We also have a system where we have regional offices in different locations throughout the Northwest Territories, so you have a larger overhead cost to administer the Northwest Territories Power Corporation than they do with Northland Utilities.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, that gets me to the bottom line, and the bottom line is delivering the best possible power rates in our communities. If the Minister is suggesting that because they have regional offices and larger overhead, that doesn't bode very well for the residents in the communities who are paying exorbitant power rates. I would like to ask the Minister if he could provide this House, or go through a process that would supply this House, with evidence about why the communities are, like I mentioned, Nahanni Butte and Whati, why are they paying 20 or 25 percent higher power rates? Can he supply the House with that type of information?

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as we all know, every community is based on a postage stamp power rate which is based on the cost to produce that power in that community, what infrastructure has been put in that community, have there been upgrades, has the Power Corporation made a capital investment by a new power plant or put in a new piece of equipment. All that is assessed when they go through the PUB process. So the actual cost to operate the Power Corporation by community is given to the Public Utilities Board and they make the decision on exactly how much that pot cost to produce the power in that community and what can the customer pay for. So at the end of the day, it's the PUB that makes the final decision on what costs are based in each community in the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my statement, I think people should start thinking about this. I believe there are other communities out there in the Northwest Territories who would see a reduction in their power rates if power was distributed in those communities by Northland Utilities. The examples are there. I gave them to the Minister today. What other communities in the Northwest Territories can we look at taking and putting with Northland Utilities so that residents pay a lower power rate? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, again, I would just like to reiterate exactly what I just said. Every community is different, based on what it cost to produce that power and what it cost each resident to pay for that power. Also, we can't lose sight that a majority of these communities we are talking about are subsidized up to 700 kilowatts per resident, which is subsidizing the majority of their high energy communities. Again, at the end of the day, we have to make a policy decision on exactly how we can find a fair system for all residents in the communities in the Northwest Territories. It has to be a policy directive given by this Legislature.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Minister talks of a fair system. I would suggest that a fair system would be an investigation of power rates that residents are paying in the communities. I would like the Minister to make a commitment today that he will investigate this. It shouldn't be allowed to happen; why comparable communities pay that much of a difference in power rates. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, that process is basically going on right now, which is a rate application that's been put forth to the Public Utilities Board. We've gone through their first phase and basically they are going through the second phase which is already in place. They have interventions off in two communities, municipalities, individuals, that want to have an opportunity to talk about the issue of rates and what they pay in those communities. So we do have a process in place. It is ongoing and it's the Public Utilities Board process where there is an application presently in front of them. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Oral questions. The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions this afternoon are for Mr. Bell as the Minister for Industry, Tourism and Investment and as the Minister responsible for signing off the socio-economic agreement for the Mackenzie gas pipeline project. Mr. Speaker, one of the legacy visions that the people of the North have had for this mega project is that we will see some residual and long-term benefits from extracting this resource from the NWT. One of them, of course, is to supply natural gas to communities along the route or, for that matter, any community that might be a viable customer for Mackenzie Delta or Mackenzie Valley gas. Mr. Speaker, could the Minister advise to what extent does the socio-economic agreement, the recently signed SEA, address the potential legacy of the Mackenzie Valley pipeline?

Thank you, Mr. Braden. The honourable Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment, Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am happy to say that the project proponent has agreed to essentially make gas available up and down the pipeline right-of-way to any community that's interested. Some communities may be interested for utility purposes. Others may have viable commercial propositions that they are pursing. It could be forestry, we don't know. The bottom line is the proponents have made a commitment to make that available and that is something we hope to be able to take advantage of. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I guess I would like to pursue this a little further. It's good news, but what does "make available" mean? Are there going to be charges or tariffs that these communities will have to make investments? I just want to find out to what extent is the pipeline project going to work with us to make it happen, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, they've agreed to apply reduced tolls to NWT customers so we won't pay the full cost of transportation that southern customers will. We think that's only fair. It doesn't have as far to go.

In terms of the conversion and actually having communities have access to the gas, they have agreed to provide valves along the way. The National Energy Board will be the determining voice in terms of what exactly the pipeline will have to pay for and what communities will have to pay for if they want to convert. What a valve means exactly, where the cut-off point is between what the pipeline will pay and what communities will pay is still to be determined and the National Energy Board will provide us some guidance and advice on that. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Mr. Speaker, this is good news. These are long-range, long-term investments. The conversion of our communities largely from diesel and heating fuel technologies to natural gas would be a significant part of enabling this to happen. What steps is the GNWT undertaking to begin to scope this out and make it doable, Mr. Speaker?

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We have done some work. We commissioned a study on gas to communities. We've identified three communities that we think have the likelihood of making a viable goal of this, at least initially. A lot of this depends, Mr. Speaker, obviously on the spread between the price of diesel in that community and natural gas. So it's hard to know going forward which communities will have the potential, but that's why we've got the marker on the wall and the producers have agreed that any communities that wants access to gas can have that. But those are the three communities, Good Hope, Tulita and Simpson initially that we have identified that seem to have some really good potential. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Final supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To what extent is the government factoring reduced greenhouse gases into the economics and viability of this? Natural gas, of course, is a much cleaner burning fuel than diesel. Is this part of our overall factoring in our calculations, Mr. Speaker?

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. At this point, we are largely looking at it from the perspective of reduced costs. One of the principles in our energy plan is to try to provide affordable power to all of our communities. We think natural gas to communities can help us do this in several communities, so that has been the driver behind this. But, yes, of course, we would like to see every single community in the Northwest Territories not have to rely on diesel in future and there are a number of options for that depending on the community and where they are located. Gas to communities will have that effect, we believe. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Oral questions. The honourable Member for Range Lake, Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to just follow up on my Member's statement and ask questions to the Minister of Health and Social Services. It's with regard to the feasibility of setting up an assisted living program. Mr. Speaker, I have mentioned this to the Minister, I believe, during our budget review. I believe that the department may be doing a little bit of work on it. I wonder if I could take this opportunity to ask the Minister to commit to looking at this seriously. I am not sure about the cost implications and the extent to which the government can jump into this, but there is definitely a need to fill this gap for those who are really in need of a little bit of living assistance from the government, so that they could live as independent a life as possible. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this is an area that we have been working on as a government over a number of years. In fact, we just recently signed a new four-year contribution agreement with the NWT Persons with Disabilities in trying to continue our working relationship with them in the area of disabilities. A steering committee was also formed comprising of a number of government departments and non-government organizations to look at the work done in this area. There is the specific area of the Respite Program, there is a program here in Yellowknife that we are looking to see if we can unroll in communities as well. There has been work done on the NWT action plan for persons with disabilities. It's looking at developing more living options that would be available, and training as well. Consistent homecare is one of the areas as well. So we've been trying to work along with this with the steering committee to improve our services to persons with disabilities. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Supplementary, Ms. Lee.