Mr. Speaker, I want to thank Mr. Braden and Mr. Pokiak for bringing forward this important motion and opportunity for us to debate it in the House here. Mr. Speaker, I would be 110 percent in support of this motion here in terms of having been brought along. I wanted to say a few words, Mr. Speaker.

Yesterday I had the opportunity to visit the Aven Manor centre and visit two elders there. One of the elders at the Aven Manor centre said, you know, I wouldn't mind having some of my own food. I know what he was talking about. He was talking about the wildlife food, either moose meat or caribou. He said I wouldn't mind having some of that food here, just to have a taste of it. Even though they are looked after fairly good and they're fed fairly good, some of the elders back in Aven Manor from our hometown want what they call Dene bede. They want Indian food, Dene food. So I know this goes back a long way.

Mr. Speaker, the other elder that I visited and had a brief hello, he had his eyes on us as we talked. He's in the centre, but he's watching us and this elder is very keen and very sharp and he says that every day he tunes us in and looks to see how we are doing. He says you guys are talking and working on our behalf. I want to say hello to those two elders that I spoke to at the Aven Manor and some of the older people. I know there are lots. I want to say that. On this important motion here, Mr. Speaker, my colleague talked about the statement that this House has done in a short time in terms of this government in terms of the value and the value of our culture and the value of our land and, most importantly, the value of our lives here. Mr. Speaker, this motion talks about the gift that the caribou has given us. Sometimes, this gift we take it for

granted if we have too many. This gift is being used by all people, not only the aboriginal people but for the economic base such as outfitters, sports hunters, many opportunities that it presents. Mr. Speaker, I want to talk about the gift that the elders have talked about, the caribou and how it helps us with our people. It is very essential to the aboriginal people and to our culture. Sometimes, not having the lifestyle we used to have, we forget about our roles and how we look after the caribou. Sometimes we forget the caribou what they mean to us. Mr. Speaker, the issue that we are talking about now, it may be hard on the caribou. I am not too sure. There is lots of knowledge that we haven't yet really picked up on this issue here. I would really like to see, Mr. Speaker, in terms of this motion here in terms of objecting that we get as much traditional knowledge as we can from the elders on the caribou and to use that for future generations.

Mr. Speaker, through those points, I wanted to look at the spirit, respecting the spirit and intent of our land claims in the land claim negotiators that fought for this specific clause in our land claims in terms of the specific area that what this really means to us and our people that this important issue for our wildlife for our people that our land claim agreements are upheld and respected to the spirit and intent that we said when we had it entered into our land claim agreements. I want to speak to that point of this motion here. It talks about that. Our people knew about it. It was in our treaties. Now, we have included it more into our land claims.

Mr. Speaker, the second last point I want to raise is the importance of the caribou calving grounds in terms of this motion and protecting those calving grounds. Mr. Speaker, it reminds me of Dodo Canyon. It is a sheep nest mountain in the Norman Wells area. It is very important to have those areas protected. That is where the babies are born. That is where babies will sustain our life as aboriginal people. In certain areas along the Mackenzie River, up around this area, there are certain calving grounds that people want protected.

Lastly, Mr. Speaker, I want to say, before I close, that there is a fiduciary obligation by the government under the land claim agreements to make sure that our way of life is sustained and will continue on for generations. Mr. Speaker, in closing, I want to thank Mr. Braden and Mr. Pokiak for bringing forward this very important motion. It is something that we want to work on together with the governments, work on with people in the communities. I am getting hungry because people are talking about caribou so much. Caribou ribs that we would have for future and we don't have to walk into our museums and see stuffed caribou like we had one out here in the foyer. I look forward to seeing this herd continue to live with us for generations and generations. Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. To the motion. The honourable Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes, Mr. McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I, too, would like to thank Mr. Braden and Mr. Pokiak for bringing this motion forward. There was a lot of work that went into the final product here. We appreciate all the work that you gentlemen have put into this.

Mr. Speaker, I looked at the caribou and I looked at them as an elder, one that has cared for us over the years, provided for us and looked after us, and then the day comes when it is our turn to care for the elders. That time, Mr. Speaker, is now. We have to do what we can to protect the caribou. We have to do what we can to make sure that there is some caribou left for future generations. Mr. Speaker, you have heard many reasons today why some of my colleagues support the motion and they are all good, valid reasons, but we really have to have a close look here and make sure that the caribou are protected and we are in a position now to protect it. I have been a subsistence hunter for half of my life probably and I have always been told that you just take what you can use. There was an old ad on TV years ago, I think put out by Renewable Resources that was take what you can use and use what you take. That was always a very true message. I told the story of an elder that was picking up caribou guts on the side of the road. Mr. Speaker, there was a lot of wisdom in what he was doing. Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the guys that brought the motion forward. I will be fully supporting this motion. Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. To the motion. The honourable Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would also like to thank Mr. Braden and Mr. Pokiak for the work that they have put into crafting this motion that is before us today. I want to say clearly I support the caribou. I support the people who harvest the caribou. I support the people who depend on the caribou and the livelihood that is derived from the caribou. However, there is one whereas in this motion that I cannot support, and it is: and whereas the caribou populations of the NWT have been found to be in dramatic decline. Now whether I think that or I don't think that, the fact is that that particular issue is something that some people have made an application to the courts regarding. I cannot show them disrespect of supporting that motion with that one whereas in there. I will move a motion to delete that one whereas. Until that is determined, whether we think it or not, I don't think that it is fair to the application before the courts for this government and this Legislature to take that position at this time. Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Are you moving a motion?

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Member for Kam Lake, that Motion 23-15(5) be amended by deleting the following clause: and whereas the caribou populations in the NWT have found to be in dramatic decline. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The motion is on the floor. To the amendment. The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Of course, I respect the privilege of any Member at any time to come in and fine tune a motion of the House and see if there is a way of improving it. To the point of the state of the population or the threats that it may be under is a point of great discussion in a number of different venues right

now, Mr. Speaker. The position that the motion takes is that, indeed, the caribou population is under threat and that action needs to be taken. I am standing, of course, in support of the motion and in opposition to this amendment because I do believe that it is, at least in part, a rate of rapid decline of the population of caribou that compels us to take the kind of action that we have been advocating and, as the motion calls for, is advocated by the people who met in Inuvik in January. So I will not be supporting the amendment, because I do sincerely believe that there is something going on and we have to act on just as soon as we can and with as much resolve and determination as we can, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. To the amendment. The honourable Member for Kam Lake, Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I certainly support the motion. I support it in its entirety. The reason why I am going to support the amendment as it is presented is because, right or wrong, this is the crux of the argument either way in a judicial review that is currently underway. Why would we include it in the motion at this time? It could go either way on that. It is debatable. The numbers are debatable. I have been through two day-long meetings. The numbers are debatable. Again, I don't see what we lose. There are pressures on the caribou. Their numbers may or may not be declining, Mr. Speaker. I think we owe it to the people who live here in the Northwest Territories who harvest the caribou to find out what the numbers are. So let's do that, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. To the amendment. The honourable Member for Nunakput, Mr. Pokiak.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. At this present time, I will not support the amendment to the motion. I think it wasn't long enough to what we have been told by the government and by the people of the Northwest Territories. The things that came out of the summit in Inuvik, I think their voice is important. I understand there is a debate about the numbers right now, but I will give you an example. The Inuvialuit are people that conserve and manage. Although they dispute the numbers right now presently back home, they still took that measure and said, okay, look. Although we know the dispute about the numbers, again, they are there. They took the numbers and looked at it and said, look, as co-management boards, we have to do something with this. They sat down with the department. I really appreciate the work that my people in the co-management board do on behalf of the wildlife, not only the caribou; the fish, the char that happened in Paulatuk, the Perry caribou that happened in Sachs Harbour. They have been on a quota system for 10 or 15 years. They are surviving just by management alone. So we take one species like the Perry caribou and central Banks Island and you do that and work with it. They are sustainable to a point now that they will live with what is given to them. At this present time, I will not support the amendment. I will go with the motion that came out before. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Pokiak. To the amendment. The honourable Member for Range Lake, Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have to reiterate that I will also be abstaining from this amendment for the same reason. I need to put that on record because I think it is important for legislators to say how they make decisions and why so. I want to make it clear that I totally respect the process here as I do for other processes. I respect everybody's opinion. I am making my own mind on a very narrow legal perspective as I know it. As far as I know, there are two parties, and I am not speaking for or against or even the subject area. I don't know. I just don't want to be doing anything here that would jeopardize or benefit either party in any way. That is just the principle I am going by on this. I hope the Members respect that it is not about whether you love the caribou or not. I hope to be able to discuss this fully some time down the road. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. To the amendment. The honourable Member for Thebacha, Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, life in AOC is always interesting.

---Laughter

Mr. Speaker, the whole crux of the issue of the work since 2003 and the millions of dollars spent by the government, the thousands of hours of staff time, hundreds of hours of airplane and helicopter time, the hundreds of thousands of square kilometres covered, was to find out what was going on. We gathered, 180 of us, in Inuvik. We spent six months prior to that talking about the numbers and the work that was done. People in Inuvik gathered. We are here today saying that we support their recommendations, yet we are going to say we can't talk about the decline of caribou, so we tell the people in Inuvik that, basically, that wasn't a very worthwhile exercise, at least not in this forum today.

It makes no sense to me, Mr. Speaker. Clearly, there is an issue. There is a serious decline. We have spoken to the motion. I think we have to carry on with the motion in its entirety to keep the integrity of the motion and recognize the value and put value in respect on the work that the people have done for the last six months to get us to this point where we can stand in the Legislature and support this. I won't support this amendment. Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. To the amendment. The honourable Member for the Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as Mr. Miltenberger has said, in AOC, there is never a dull moment. Mr. Speaker, I would speak to this amendment in terms of not supporting it. We have had a lot of discussions on it. Our region has talked about it for a lot of good people together and that we have made some headway in terms of what we are going to do, taking ownership. I am not going to support the motion because I think we should go with the original motion. I would like to go with that course of direction. I wanted to say that for the record, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. To the amendment. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, Mr. Villeneuve.

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. To the amendment. The honourable Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes, Mr. McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I stand, too, to voice my non-support of the amendment. Mr. Speaker, the people met in Inuvik. There were leaders, regulators, scientists and harvesters. They all came up with a plan of action. That plan of action is something that this government should support. We should support it. Those are the people that I will listen to. That is why I will not support this amendment. I will support the original motion. Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. To the amendment. The honourable Member for Monfwi, Mr. Lafferty.