Mahsi, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Minister.

Very quickly, if I could. I agree that the concept where it's essentially a factory with retail space has worked successfully in a number of our communities, and the Members have pointed out the Tent and Canvas Shop in McPherson. That's a subsidiary of BDIC. Acho Dene Crafts in Liard, again same idea; goods produced on site, retail in the front. Dene Fur Clouds in Providence, same model, Mr. Chairman. Again the model we're trying to replicate, Ulukhaktok, will have space in the back for the production of goods, retail in the front.

The one other approach that has been successful and we look to the Inuvialuit and their joint venture, their partnership with Jacques Cartier Furs with the qiviuq. That's successful but a different model. There are a number of different ways to handle this I guess. We would accept any proposal coming forward from regions and communities. If they want to sit down and talk about how something like could work, we're willing to listen.

I would say that I think we have to come back to branding here. The Members make the point that to differentiate six hide jackets on a shelf and make sure that the high quality stuff really gets what it's worth and that the artisans are fairly remunerated, we have to do a job in branding and making sure people understand who that artist is, what their history and background is, what they're famous for, talk about the quality of the work they do. If we think about anything; diamonds, for example, you have to move beyond diamonds as a commodity into branding. It's a feeling there's some quality, but it's how you promote and market that. I think we need to do the same with our arts and crafts, and so I think we've lacked, for some time, a real approach to branding that made sense and would add value, and that's what we're trying to do here. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Anything further, Mr. Yakeleya? Next on the list I've got Ms. Lee, then Mrs. Groenewegen. Ms. Lee.

Thank you. I want to revisit this arts and crafts issue. The last time around I had about a minute and a half left to talk about it, so I didn't explain my e-Bay issue probably properly and the Minister misunderstood that and he was disagreeing with his own misinterpretation of what I was to trying to say. I wasn't trying to say that anybody could go on e-Bay and sell things. What I was trying to say is, from my limited knowledge of marketing, I see government doing a lot of work to promote branding, setting up websites, setting up a database for arts and crafts makers. There's a national/international campaign going on. But what are we doing at the ground level? What I see when I go to all these places, I can't afford everything that I buy, but we make a point of looking at

local artisans. I'm telling you, even places as big as Fort Simpson, you can't go there on any given day and look at what local people have produced. Is there any place in the NWT where you can go and get them? What I'm saying is to put a website program and database, that's at the out end. Where is the front end? Where is the production end?

Mr. Yakeleya talks about his jacket. I tell you I have a very old beaten up Dene jacket and I have a very old beaten up Aklavik parka, and I cannot go outside my house without somebody saying how nice they are. What I'm saying is there is a reservoir of people wanting to buy those just in Yellowknife, and you cannot go to the shops and buy these unless you know somebody to order them from. So what I'm saying is when I go to communities and then we see these community people who come to these gatherings trying to sell their stuff, so there's a gap there somewhere. What are we doing to accommodate and foster these markets?

I appreciate the big-ticket item industries, but we, in my opinion, are not doing enough to help these arts and crafts industries. There was a sewing class, there's a beading class in Yellowknife at Bows and Arrows. There were 20 people sitting there learning how to do beads and none of them were aboriginal. There is such pent-up demand and desire for even NWT people, Yellowknife people, to buy these, and I'm sure there are community people who would sew moccasins and jackets if they knew they could get a regular income from that. I just think that government has a role to play in linking these people up. I'm not familiar with all that is going on in terms of what the Minister is working on to do this. I hear branding, I hear the setting up of a website, I hear the database, I see the international marketing. That's all good in terms of branding and selling.

Years ago I talked to the retailers in Yellowknife -- not years and years ago -- they said they could sell anything they could get. They talked about the government being a big competitor when there was the Credit Corporation forwarding all this stuff, but there is no connection between people who want to sell and government promoting and marketing, branding, come and see us, come and buy our stuff. But where is, at the ground level, support for the people? The Minister is saying we're willing to entertain any proposals from regional government. Is it not about time that the government goes to the regional people, community people or something, and say, look, how do we revive this industry? We are constantly working with other governments and regional governments on diamonds and oil and gas, and there's nothing wrong with that, we need to do all that. We had this exact same conversation a year ago, and Mrs. Groenewegen and I talked about how difficult it is to go anywhere. An Aklavik fur parka, I got it as a gift, a wolf parka, over Christmas that I couldn't wear. I put in on YK Traders, it was gone. People want to buy these and they can't even find them right here, and I'm sure there are people in communities who would be happy to make those if they knew that they could get the money for them. So I want to know, in that very narrow way, what does the department do to accommodate that? Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To marry up the suppliers and the artisans with potential customers, we have the staff in the department who work very much with the artisans, contact them, discuss what they're producing, and talk about potential sales outlets and avenues for that. Of course, the website is a big tool in helping us do that and helping us promote these artisans so that the people that are out there, this demand -- this pent-up demand that I would agree with the Member that I think is out there -- the demand knows where to go in terms of finding access, a one point that it can contact to get access to all these artisans and understand what they produce, how much they can produce, the phone numbers so that they can call these people and get access to them.

Over and above that, we have these retail operations that, obviously, as a government, we subsidize. It's difficult to break even in many of these operations and we don't expect initially that the operations will break even, but we've worked and subsidized Dene Fur Clouds and Acho Dene Crafts and Tent and Canvas McPherson, and I expect that the model will be the same in Ulukhaktok. We have to be prepared to make an investment of public money if we want to see these operations get off the ground. Eventually they will be sustainable; I believe that. But in order to make them sustainable, we have to work to brand the goods to build up the value, to add the value, so people recognize the inherent value in these products and are prepared to pay premium dollar for that. Otherwise we'll forever go on having people pay bottom dollar for these crafts and the artisans not understanding how to best market their product, not getting the money that they could for them. So we want to work to brand and build up the interest in these products, and are working to marry artisans with potential customers.

Again, I would admit that we can continue to do more, and if Members have suggestions as to how we can be creative -- and I appreciate the input and the help -- but how we can do a better job in marrying these two, then thank you and we'll take that input and we're certainly willing to work in that respect. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Ms. Lee.

In terms of suggestion, I could see the output side on TV and such, but in terms of on the ground, I'm not seeing the government doing enough to protect and foster our traditional arts and crafts industry. So is the Minister saying, then, for those artists to be in the branding world and the marketing world and to be in the main network of the government support, they have to be connected? Are they going to be certified if they're going to be branded? Is that the only way you could hook up into the marketing network? In this scenario, then, is the Minister saying that we are not ever going to get involved? The government is not going to get involved that we could work with other regional governments or community governments or other partners to see that there is at least one arts and crafts or some kind of retail store. Is that idea not feasible at all?

I think sewing centres were tried before and that was not successful in too many places. So, suggestion; I have a vision, I have an idea about what I'd like to see. I'd like to see, at least in major centres, in Simpson, I don't know, not in every community, but somewhere where if the visitors ever went there that they could go in and see who are the artisans and how do they gather and how do they make things. Or under his work that he's talking about

here, it's really you're out there on your own and the help that you could get from the government is that you connect with these guys in Yellowknife and they'll put you up on the databank and they'll put you up on the web page and somebody hopefully will get hold of you and order from you. Is that the vision we're looking at?

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Minister.

Specific to the first question that Ms. Lee asked about whether or not our branding, those who are branded and using the NWT brand would be certified. Yes, we would want to ensure that they are in fact NWT artisans. So we'll have a mechanism to ensure that that's the case. That's all part of building the brand. We want to ensure that people have a positive experience with it.

Yes, I think we can, in many of our communities, work to develop retail operations, but much of this -- and we have our regional staff working on this -- is going to be community driven. There's no boilerplate model. I don't think government can impose solutions. I think we have to be willing to work with the communities to develop retail outlets. We are working with individual artisans. I know just recently we put $35,000 out to 10 NWT artists; we put $70,000 out for Canada Winter Games funding. So we are doling out some grants and contributions, albeit modest, with artisans to help them get started and promote their crafts. But, yes, we're prepared to talk about retail operations as we have in Providence, Liard, McPherson, Holman now. We have agreed, I think it makes sense, Members probably agreed, to stay out of the larger market communities where government is seen as interfering with private businesses. So Inuvik and Smith and Hay River and Yellowknife and Norman Wells, we probably aren't looking at developing operations there. In Simpson is probably a good example. We had a past effort there that we were supporting as a government that, for a couple of reasons, didn't pan out. That doesn't mean that there won't be a future investment and initiative there, and I would like to see that. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Next on the list I have Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I know we're sort of camped on this whole arts and crafts thing here, but one of the models we did not talk about -- and I'm sure Northern Images is not going to like to hear me say this -- but when you go to Inuvik, when you go into the IRC office, just outside of Nellie's office, the IRC, good for them, an aboriginal government that will buy the stuff from the artists and resell it at no mark-up. They make sure the artisans in their region get all of the money from those arts and crafts, because they've got the space and they've got the traffic going through their office. So that's how they've married up purchasers with their producers.

Mr. Braden says that's a false economy, but it's another model, it's another way of band governments and band councils and people who already have heat and light on in that facility bringing stuff in and marketing the stuff. I don't have an issue with that; I think it's great. Anyway, there are challenges to it.

I probably have the largest private collection of northern garments and northern artefacts of anybody in the Northwest Territories. I will tell you I could write a book on how I came across every one of them, because it's not an easy process and there are lots of challenges to the relationships you have to build and people you have to meet and be at the right place at the right time. So it's not an easy thing and I don't think there's a one word answer to solve this problem, so I'll just leave it at that. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. I didn't hear a question there, so I'll move now to our next speaker, Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Earlier I had very good questions and he came back with some very interesting responses. I wrote a couple of them down and I was just wondering if we could explore them just a little further.

I was highlighting my concerns in the beating our Japanese tourism industry was taking this year, and the Minister pointed out that he did recognize the concern. Actually, he did one better. He pointed out some things he was working on. He pointed out a commission to study. Let's start with that one. Maybe he could give me some details on what study he commissioned and what can he provide me? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Minister.

Mr. Chairman, I asked my deputy minister to meet with the Department of Transportation to get a better handle and update the costs. We've done some past work on what an airport infrastructure upgrade would be and what would be required to accommodate these transcontinental flights. So I've asked my deputy minister to meet with DOT, upgrade that information and get a better handle on what kind of investment we'd be talking about. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you. Just in a round about way, about two weeks ago I had asked the Minister of Transportation about that and he didn't seem interested in that issue. There wasn't a study and he sent me three copies of the feasibility study that basically sounded like there was a business case for it, but nobody seemed to be doing anything with it. So is this new, this commission? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Minister.

Mr. Chairman, I'm going to guess that we kicked it off two months ago here. I'm just going by memory, but I had asked the department to look at the market. This really has to be done more by our department than by DOT, in fairness, to understand the tourism market opportunities, a bit of a swat analysis, the strength and weaknesses, opportunities, threats, compare ourselves to other jurisdictions. I think we needed to have a good handle on this. Before we go head long into proposing an investment, we need to understand if that will in fact make the difference. There's also the infrastructure piece, and that's why DOT comes in. They're the ones with the best handle on what it would cost and how they would be able to upgrade an airport to accommodate physically the infrastructure. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I won't get into the fact that there seems to be two sort of variations that lie before the House. The Minister didn't seem to have any idea, or at least any inclination -- the Minister of Transportation that is -- didn't seem to allude to this work being done. Basically it seemed pretty clear that nothing was being done. I would think that after hearing the Minister of ITI, he seems very clear on potential infrastructure work that may be coming forward...that's being examined, I should say it that way, that's being examined at this time; useful infrastructure. I would have thought that they may have kept him in the loop a little more.

The Minister also talked about talking with industry over in Alaska, and I'm trying to get some more details on that. Can the Minister sort of reply on who he's been talking to in Alaska and who he's been talking to here in the Northwest Territories about finding some way to build a program? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Minister

Mr. Chairman, just for clarity, as I pointed out, much of the work related to market and the opportunities and the competition really has to be done in house with my department. So there's a very good reason why the Minister of Transportation wouldn't be aware of that. We have pulled the ministry of transport in to get an updated cost figure on the infrastructure and the investment that would be required. So if you asked the Minister of Transportation whether a business case could be made, I suspect that he wouldn't be able to answer that. He could tell you, and their department is working on what it would cost. It would be up to us to put together a business case, and that's what we're doing, Mr. Chairman.

In Alaska, I met with Commissioner Notti to talk about the opportunity and the experience that they have in the work that they're doing in Fairbanks. They have ramped up efforts in Fairbanks to try to promote aurora tourism. We think, among other things, that this has taken a big bite out of our tourism here, and so he has agreed to provide me the contact information with their industry association people who I could link up with NWTT, and we look forward to doing that so we can kick off some discussions and comparisons. But many of the people involved in the industry, as Members will know, are into their very busy tourism season, and so we're hoping that at the end of this typical aurora viewing season we can do a bit of a debrief and have our two jurisdictions compare notes and talk about areas for future cooperation. Thank you.