Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Next for general comments on my list I have Mr. Pokiak.

Thank you, Mr. Pokiak. Any further general comments? Mr. Villeneuve.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I thank the Minister and Mr. Cooper and Ms. Schofield for coming out here today. I just have a couple questions on the opening comments with respect to legal aid services. I know that it's one of the, especially family legal aid services is really one of those really complicated legal services, I guess, that I think a lot of legal aid lawyers just don't even want to look at. I know a lot of them, a lot of people have been calling me and asking me why their family legal aid cases have been outstanding for quite a number of years and I really hope that with some new clinics and more resources put toward legal aid services we can try to alleviate the workload on that front because I feel that there is, I'm not a lawyer but just from hearing what people are telling me, that they're having to deal with, as far as going through legal aid and getting legal aid for family issues, is really something that is a real uphill battle for them and it really causes them a lot of stress, a lot of worry, especially if it takes years and years for them to get any type of legal aid or get their case heard in the court. So I hope that maybe this government can help alleviate some of those strains that we have on our justice system and our legal aid services.

Just with community justice I'm glad to see that there is continued funding going into community justice committees and a little more funding for community justice coordinators, but I think when community justice starts working for communities we seem to cut back on the funding. You know, there's no guarantee it's going to carry on from one year to the next. I think that when they're doing funding allocations, especially for community justice committees and community justice coordinators, that they really should look at how many cases they handle, and I'm sure they do, probably. However, just with maybe the success rate of what they're doing every year to ensure that, yes, they do have good working relationships with other community members, with the court systems and with the enforcement personnel in the community, I think we have to build on that as we move forward here with the community justice work.

Just on the on-the-land programs, I know this has been a real tough one for justice, too, especially on the accountability issue just to...How do we monitor these on-the-land programs? I know we don't have RCMP or security services or any judges or lawyers going out to any of these camps and seeing how they're doing and asking these camp workers how it's working for them and how the government is reacting to their requests for either more funding, continued funding or just more professional development, I guess, in training and stuff to help their people that are out there to help. I like to see more monitoring mechanisms, I guess, in place for on-the-land programs and a closer working relationship with justice workers and RCMP in ensuring that, yes, they are doing what they're supposed to be doing and not just taking people out on the land to let them run around at their own whim and collect money off the government for not incurring any real expense on their part and making it more like a money-making business venture more than a rehab initiative.

Those are basically the only two issues that really jumped out at me on the opening comments. I'm glad to see that there are more dollars going into community justice. I don't want to see them going into jails and courthouses, but I think at the community level we really have to raise awareness that communities can take hold of their own justice systems and work with their own people that they know best and try to keep the court system out of the picture as much as we can. With that, I'm glad to be

going through the detail here with the Minister. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. Next on the list I have Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Just a few general comments on legal aid and RCMP services, but first I'd like to just mention the issue with the courthouse. I know that project is off the books for the moment, or it's delayed, and I know it's one that may not have the most overwhelming support from some Members, but I think, in the end, that has to be a business case and the fact is the government is and will continue to spend money and will be required to spend money to hold those trials and hearings that have to go on. For some of the most extensive cases they need certain capacity, security and services that they need to hold those hearings and trials, and government will have to pay leasing or owning the building and I would like to encourage the Minister and the government to keep on working on that because it's not a public project that's going to go away; it's something that has to be addressed and in the end the business case has to make the decision on that. I think the business case will prove that that needs to be done sooner rather than later.

On the legal aid situation, Madam Chair, I am well aware of lack of family lawyers in Yellowknife and the fact that there are so many cases. I mean a lot of people who need legal aid can't get it and those who get the legal aid services, the files move very slowly, and there are some cases where, you know, the cases get really protracted for many reasons. People have disputes even in the best circumstances, but when you're going through break-up of a marriage and children are involved and families involved, people get entrenched and they sometimes are not able to make the best decisions that they'll see the end of the relationship or whatever. I know that federally, given that divorce legislation is under federal jurisdiction and much of the family law area is under federal law jurisdiction, I know in many jurisdictions attempts have been made to put in dispute resolution mechanisms just to put any extra steps that could work toward resolving these issues. However, at the end, if the two parties are set on disagreeing on every point, that does take time. I'm wondering if the Minister and the department has looked into a case management system where you could do a review of cases and see what cases are so long outstanding and whether we could do a concentrated effort to clean up some of those files, even if we have to get something like locum lawyers. You know, we have locum doctors to replace our doctors if they're on holidays or we can't get them. Is there some kind of set mechanism where...Is there a way, or do they have a way, or does the legal aid office operate under some kind of rule or system that would tell them that they need to review, have some idea of how long these files are and whether we could institute any new ways, whether using a short-term infusion of imported lawyers from other jurisdictions who are licensed, or who are members of the bar to practice here temporarily or something, just to clean up some of the files.

The second thing is I can appreciate that the work they have to do at the legal aid office is not an easy task. There are lots of people who are employed under the government who have to deal with hard clients and clients who are under a lot of stress and they are very distraught and so I can understand the stress that our staff is under, but I think it would be helpful to remind everybody working for the government, serving the people, that what they do say and how they do their job matters and there are better ways to serve the people than not. So I would just like to take this opportunity to encourage everyone to be mindful of the clients they serve. They're under a lot of stress and they could be helped much further if they were given service with courtesy and respect.

The last thing I want to talk about, Madam Chair, is to do with the RCMP servicing programs in the North. We are all aware of the fact that RCMP resources nationally are under a great deal of stress. RCMP, in this heated labour market, I think they're having even...I mean, they're trying to recruit as many as possible but they're not able to recruit as many as they probably need or they could afford, and they probably can't afford as many as they need. In the North they are having lots of discussions here to make sure that every community has RCMP service. I support that and I do congratulate the department, the Minister and the Member from Nunakput, for the work that he has done in his effort to get that in Sachs Harbour. There are some other communities that are still working on that. I keep thinking about this challenge we have though. I'd like to see all the communities having... You know, Wrigley doesn't have RCMP service and, I think if you don't have RCMP service, other social agencies are unable to get into that. You know, nurses don't want to work in communities where there is no RCMP protection. We all need a minimum level of protection and any other social agencies, so RCMP sort of has to be the lead for other agencies to come in. So we want to see a situation where that doesn't happen anymore.

Having said that, I think it's important also to realize that not having all the RCMP support in small communities are affecting the services in Yellowknife, too. Yellowknife has...it's a community of half of the population, but certainly we do not have half of the RCMP contingent; not anywhere near that. I think probably most, I would say 60, 70, 80 percent, of hard crimes are committed in Yellowknife. The downtown core of Yellowknife is going through so much stress and we hear every day from retailers, pedestrians, we have youth being attacked by other youth, we have people being mugged in broad daylight, we have people doing drug deals at every corner. I mean we have serious crimes happening and my information is that we may have as little as 20 to 30 percent of our RCMP resources in Yellowknife. It's a problem if we are spending 70, 80 percent of resources, RCMP resources, outside of Yellowknife and yet we cannot staff all the communities. In the capital city where, not because Yellowknife is big and Yellowknife should get everything, it's just that because it's big there are a lot of really serious crimes being committed. I know in working with the RCMP and talking to the RCMP, they are bending themselves backwards and forwards to address all the needs in all the communities. At some point, I think that enough is enough in terms of how much Yellowknife can sustain and maintain a reasonable level of community safety if it keeps being under-resourced the way it is now.

Organizations like the Yellowknife Coalition for Community Wellness, COPS program, Community Patrol Services, RCMP Advisory Committee, there is a drug-free zone, there are a lot of things that the community is working on on its own to ameliorate the gaps that are being created by the fact that Yellowknife continues to be

under-resourced in its RCMP staffing. I think this needs a real focused attention. The issue is we have all this RCMP. Within the resources we have, we are not able to resource the big communities where the hard crimes are like Inuvik, too, and yet we still are not able to staff the small communities. So I don't know where the point is where we could adequately meet the needs of small communities and the large communities, and I think that's a challenge that the Minister and the government has to continue to work on and one that I'm prepared to work on if we could get some options on that. My time is up, Madam Chair, so I'll leave it at that for now. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Next on the list for general comments I have Mr. Lafferty.

Mahsi, Madam Chair. (English not provided)

Madam Chair, I just highlighted a few key points, three points to be exact, which I'll be reflecting on in detailed information, as well, where we talk about the department's goals and objectives for the year 2007-08; what their prime focus is on. There are a lot of issues around the table here that we've been talking about. One of the areas that we must commend the department and the Minister on is that Sachs Harbour is getting a detachment. It's the hard work of the Member from the area, Nunakput, Mr. Pokiak. Even in other communities, as Mr. Yakeleya pointed out, Colville Lake; and also myself, Gameti. I've been an MLA for a year and a half now, going on to almost two years, so if I had the same amount of time as the Member for Nunakput, we probably would have battled and then flipped a coin for a detachment in the community. At the same time, I fully support Mr. Pokiak's riding getting the detachment and I'm certainly looking forward to our detachment in Gameti and also Colville, and other small communities. It's a real asset and also it's a real need in the community to have that detachment in the communities.

That's one area that I wanted to focus on. The other one is this courthouse that's been brought up before. Mr. Ramsay brought it up as well, a need for a courthouse in Yellowknife. You know I was satisfied that it wasn't in the budget per se but, at the same time, I think those kinds of funding and investments should be going to communities first where we don't have a court facility, court supplies, court equipment; an up-to-date facility which we do not have in the smaller communities. So that should be the first priority before we look at a huge project here in the city of Yellowknife. Those are ongoing discussions and I'm sure we'll be talking about that at a later point.

Another area, Madam Chair, and a final point I'd like to focus on, is with respect to the culture programs through the rehab in the correctional centres. You know, we talk about the wilderness camps. I'm fully supporting the Minister coming to my region, his department, working on a wilderness camp for our region and also for the Sahtu. I've been after the department to know exactly when it's going to happen. I'm hoping that it will come to fruition soon enough. I'll be going after the department again, just as a reminder. They've been working hard, too, as well, with the community of Whati; it will be in Whati this year. So I'd like to commend the Minister and his department in that area as well. At the same time, with the correction programs...It's hard to focus. Corrections program at the correctional facility is the culture program. I visited the facility. I met with the Tlicho inmates. At the same time, the program has been delivered. I think it is inadequate. More programs need to be delivered. Also, in different languages as well where we had over 20-plus inmates and there wasn't any Tlicho speaking person in there as a counsellor. I still have concerns about that. Interpretation services should be provided. There comes a time where inmates are there interpreting, which shouldn't be allowed at all. That should be the last resort. It should be an outsider coming in as an interpreter. That is why we, as GNWT, pay for the services. Those are just, Madam Chair, some comments that I have. I will have questions in the detailed documentation. Mahsi.

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Next for general comments I have Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Madam Chair. There are so many aspects to what the Department of Justice does and how it relates to life in our communities. I think, as in the case of a number of expectations that the public has, too much is put on the shoulders of police or courts to fix things and remedy them. It is something we are always striving to find a balance for. Earlier today, we talked about the income security framework and how it can streamline and balance the delivery of all sorts of different things that affect people's lives. The aspect of justice is certainly a big one. One of the things that I look at is, well, what is within our realm, our ability to help make a difference, to give people more opportunity or better tools, better ways legally, through programs to help make a difference in their own lives or in their own communities. We are doing things, I think. In fact, in this Assembly, we have done quite a bit and are still looking at doing more.

Madam Chair, the Protection Against Family Violence Act is something that, I understand, has exceeded expectations about the uptake and the involvement from families who need exactly that, protection against violence. Madam Chair, we are soon going to engage in a long-anticipated review of the Liquor Act, not that this is going to solve all the ills associated with liquor abuse, but it is something that we can do in this Legislature that will modernize and reflect more current thinking and standards and put our values on the way liquor is administered as a controlled substance by this government. There has been a lot of work done in a very short period of time on the Safe Communities and Neighbourhoods Act, which also anticipates that something will come before this Legislature and the communities. These are all things, Madam Chair, that individuals and communities can use and that we can do our part as a Legislature.

Madam Chair, our colleague Ms. Lee referenced the fantastic work of another volunteer organization, the Community Wellness Coalition here in Yellowknife which, I think, is in its third or fourth year now. I was at their annual meeting last week. I got the sense that this is an organization that is really finding its feet. It has secured some substantive resources from the federal Department of Justice. I know that the RCMP, our Department of Justice and many other agencies have been involved with it. Ms. Lee outlined a couple of things that are going on that this community should be deeply indebted to that organization. I also learned at their meeting, Madam Chair, that other communities in the NWT are looking at what they are doing and want to engage with them to see if what these volunteers in Yellowknife have started could be also undertaken in other communities. I think that is a

major achievement. In reality, it begins to satisfy one of the visions of this organization, which was to enable a community to take more responsibility and have more involvement in what goes on in the community in the sense of policing and justice and making their community a safe and secure place. That is what has been demonstrated here. I hope that we can give them every possible assistance including maybe a spare vehicle or two.

Madam Chair, something that has come up frequently in this department is the role of community justice committees. These are organizations mandated to serve as alternatives to regular court practice. It seems that we still, Madam Chair, do not give these committees or organizations the recognition or resources that I believe they could or should have as the kind of alternate to our courts and our correction system that just don't seem to work for so many people that get caught up in a life of crime or especially the repeat offenders. I still believe that we can do so much more if we try to assist those people to solve their issues in the context of their own communities, cultures and family situations rather than exporting them to some other place for a few weeks or a few months and expect that they will be able to return being better off.

Madam Chair, my colleague Ms. Lee also referenced the terrific work of the RCMP in the community. While we have achieved new policing resources on the street here in Yellowknife and, of course, in at least a few other communities in the last two or three years, I think there are still things that can be done to enable the police to do more policing, to do exactly what they are trained and expected to do when they put that uniform on. I know that, here in the Yellowknife detachment for instance, Madam Chair, through some creativity and some new ideas and new thinking, they have brought in some different ideas about administration and freed up a lot of RCMP time, trained officer time, that otherwise went into paperwork or administration, is now being achieved in other ways. The police are actually able to do more policing. This is something that I hope we continue to do and that other agencies such as the Department of Justice and corrections and perhaps our municipal bylaw officers where in most communities that have them, can also be involved in sharing more of the responsibilities and, like I say, be more creative in delivering policing services in our communities.

Mr. Chair, that concludes my remarks. I look forward to getting into more detail.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Next on the list for general comments I have Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, I am just going to go over briefly some of the things that I would like to get some response from the Minister on as we go through the detail. I would like to get some information on the status of the restructuring of the G division of the RCMP. I would like to know what exactly is happening with the police space in Hay River at the South Mackenzie Correctional Centre that was allocated for remand services and how the change in the way that remand inmates were being handled, how that is playing out compared to the plans and the goals that were intended to be achieved with that reprofiling.

I would like to ask a little bit about the RCMP drug dog that we have and how successful that is proving to be. I just want to say that I am not so concerned as to where the drug dog is located, but just the availability for those services to be deployed in the Northwest Territories as required at various locations and whether or not one dog or one handler is sufficient.

Again, on the subject of the RCMP, I would like to inquire about how the auxiliary program is going, whether it is expanding, whether it is diminishing and how that fits in with the overall policing agenda here in the North.

With respect to the Yellowknife courthouse, I want to say that I do concur with the Members here who have previously stated that we need to regionalize the court services as much as possible. I think that, on a cost comparison, we would spend an inordinate amount of money and police resources bringing people back and forth to the courthouse and correction services in Yellowknife. The more that those services, court appearances and incarcerations can be decentralized, I think the better it is for the region. It is better for people who come into contact with the justice system. So that is all I have to say under general comments for now. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Next on the list for general comments I have Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am just going to comment in a couple of small areas. There won't be really much of a question as opposed to just some observations. The first one I will speak in the area of law enforcement. I will say, from an MLA point of view who has to work here not just for Yellowknife Centre but work with his colleagues, I know my colleague Calvin Pokiak has worked very hard on seeing the realization of an RCMP station and members posted in the Sachs Harbour area. I just want to pat the government on the back. That being said, with that significant accomplishment, I say tongue in cheek of course, someday there will be a chicken in every pot kind of thing. Maybe every community will have representation from the RCMP forces in their detachment. Someday our territorial government will have to reach a point of saying that those types of services are more along the lines of a need and a must as opposed to a hypothetical some day. I look forward to that transition to us moving forward to that type of policy that every community has some type of policing service they can lean on regardless of the fact that they may be only a 30 minute flight away. Sometimes it takes a two hour flight to get there to make it a 30 minute flight. By the time an emergency happens, I don't want to say it has been gone and past. It could also have been a lot worse. Someday. Kudos to the Minister moving forward on that initiative.

The other area I wish to draw attention to and applaud the department for their work on is the legal aid services. This should be no surprise to the Minister, the deputy and everybody else in the Department of Justice. When I came to the Assembly three and a half years ago, I remember people telling me that it has all been said before. It has all been done before. Just calm down. Nothing is going to change. People in the law profession even told me that they, of course, we have all worked on files. It is just the way it is. The department continues to make strides. It is very easy for us here to critique and criticize. Sometimes, I often say, we are not here to judge

but just be judgmental. The department, as well, needs to get a pat on the back when they make strides forward. My issue here is, when I first started on this, getting more lawyers or a new office was, of course, everyone said would never happen. They have made that happen so that there is a new office. It has been running for a few years, as we all know. But the next stride was they said that they would never pay lawyers more. It is not just about paying lawyers more; it is about paying them what they are worth. If we can't attract people in the private area to pick up these files, who is going to do the work? It falls back on the public servants who are lawyers in our shops. They can't keep up with the workload. I know it sounds strange to be complimenting them for paying lawyers more money. Typically, the general public thinks that is a wrong step to go, but the fact is, access to law is a very critical thing that defines your democracy. Justice is a pillar of our democracy, so it is an important value that we always have to make sure that it gets the supports and emphasis it needs. If we are able to attract more lawyers to do these files, that will help families that are in crisis sort of get through those dirty days, as some may describe it. I, like many other MLAs here, have heard from families where all they are trying to do is get a simple maintenance enforcement order, trying to continue with their divorce, trying to get access to their children, or trying to get court orders to protect themselves. It doesn't sound like much when you are in a family that is, if I may say, relatively stable, but when you are not in one of those stable environments, it is everything to you. If we are able to help propel a safe environment or home by getting access to the legal process for these people, we may sometimes be avoiding situations that never should have been. I say to the government's Department of Justice specifically that I am happy to see that they are bringing forward an adjustment in legal tariffs. Again, it is a challenge that I see that we are meeting because, like I said, when I first came here and was championing some of these issues, many people laughed on my side of the House and they heckled on the other side of the House and thought it was foolishness, but here it is yet again. The government is responding to change and they are responding in a positive way. I think it will affect many people's lives in a good way. I have no questions, Mr. Chair. It is easy to criticize, but we also have to compliment them when they do a good job. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. I don't have anybody else on my list for general comments. Thank you, committee. The department starts on page 7-7, department summary, operations expenditure summary. We will defer this until the end. Page 7-10 is where we will start, committee. Information item, revenue summary. Are there any questions on that?

Thank you. Page 7-13, activity summary, services to government, operations expenditure summary, $8.840 million.

Thank you. Page 7-14, activity summary, services to government, grants and contributions, grants, total grants, $79,000.

Page 7-19, activity summary, law enforcement, operations expenditure summary, $27.094 million. Mr. Lafferty.

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, as I highlighted earlier about talking about the importance of having RCMP presence at detachments, especially in the small communities and just highlighting the achievement on Sachs Harbour, I would just like to question the Minister again about the Gameti RCMP detachment. How far are we at within the system of the GNWT negotiating with the federal government? We know there is an announcement on March 19th. Is there going to be money to that effect? Is there any positive news that is coming? Has the Minister heard any news on their part? If he has, then when are we going to see results? That will be my first question. Mahsi.

Mahsi, Mr. Lafferty. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. On getting the assignment of the Department of Justice, one of the first things we did was sit down and talk about some priorities and some political priorities and areas that we thought we could make some headway. One of the most important things for me was to add policing in the Northwest Territories. I think we have done that with 28 additional bodies in the last three years. We also looked at, most importantly, policing in our smaller communities and the way that the operations were set up to serve our smallest communities. It was readily apparent, from talking to Members, that what we needed was a permanent presence in our smaller communities. We had 13 without police detachments. We will be down to 12 with the addition of Sachs Harbour, but we set out a course or a plan that would see, my hope was to go from 13 communities without detachments to 10 before the end of this government. We have been successful with Sachs Harbour. We made the argument to the federal government, to the Minister of Justice. We were very well aware that there were sovereignty arguments for having viable, sustainable communities in the High Arctic. I was very concerned about the response time in Sachs Harbour. If something goes wrong, two hours is a very long time. That is if there is good weather. Thankfully, we had some very good response on behalf of the RCMP in some critical situations in Sachs Harbour, but that was the case we made for Sachs Harbour and its detachment. The federal government was listening.

The RCMP has worked very closely with us. We talked with them about their operational priorities. I did meet in the summer with Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day and laid out the case for Sachs Harbour. I am happy to say that we were successful. I have since gone back now to the same Minister again, Mr. Chair, and made the case for more detachments. I think they are a little bit amazed and bemused that, after getting one, we have come back for more, but we have done that. I can tell Members that we have a plan. We will be discussing it in the next couple of weeks for Gameti and for Wrigley, which are two very high pressure points in the system. We know the winter road experiment in Gameti. We saw the need first-hand. We spoke with the leadership and elders. That is a community that has been in desperate need of a permanent policing presence for a long time. I think we are going to deliver there. The same case can be made for Wrigley, especially with the coming pipeline development. We need to do something about a

detachment there. There are other communities that we will move on to after that, Mr. Chair, but very much I want to work on delivering on these three detachments before our time is up here as a government. As I say, in the next couple of weeks we will be sitting down to discuss a plan with Members.