Minister of Education, Mr. Lafferty.

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. That will be taken into consideration. They’re consulting with various groups within the school. I’ll make the effort to dig up some more information in that area and share it with the Member. Mahsi.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’d appreciate that.

Thank you. Next on the list I have Mr. Abernethy.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just want to preface my comments by saying that I absolutely one hundred per cent support replacing the schools in Inuvik. Now, having said that, I’m not quite sure I understand the cost, to be quite honest.

Based on last year’s capital infrastructure plan, we’ve got a new school that we’re putting into Fort Good Hope. It’s going to be $24 million, and we just finished one in Tulita that was $22 million. Last year in the capitals the budget for the Samuel Hearne and Sir Alexander Mackenzie replacements were $79 million. Based on what I was listening to last week when we were doing the general comments, it’s over $100 million. I believe someone mentioned $116 million.

It seems a little excessive to me. I mean, I know with that school we’ve gone from a design where it was like a half-moon, which is a little crazy and would have driven the cost up…. I understand now we’re talking about a combined school, which is, I think, fantastic. I think that should help us reduce costs, so why do more? I’m a little surprised by the cost. I’m not saying let’s not build it, but I’m really kind of confused by the costs, and I would like to know how we got there. I would like to know how a school that’s so expensive…. What are we building? Is this like the Taj Mahal of the Northwest Territories? What are we building? What’s wrong?

You know, some people say: whatever; why don’t we build a box? Boxes are cheap. We can build a box. We can put state of the art equipment into it, and it will be functional. It may not be the most beautiful building you’ll see, but it will be totally functional, and then there’s all that extra money we could put into programming. I mean, ultimately the programming is as important as the school, and by building something this expensive, they will never be able to match the O&M for this thing. I’m a little worried; I’m a little stunned. I’m not sure how we got to this price tag.

I was wondering if the Minister could help me understand how a school is going to cost us $116 million, $117 million — I don’t even know the price — well over $109 million to build a school.

Minister of Finance.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will defer that question to Mr. Aumond.

Mr. Aumond.

Thank you for that information. Looking in the Inuvik Drum today, it still strikes me looking kind of like a half moon. I get what you’re saying, and I understand the importance of this building. Like I said before, I am going to support it. It comes back to some things I heard earlier this session about our capital getting out of hand from time to time. Maybe it’s time that we walked away from pretty buildings. Maybe it’s time that we

started talking about buildings that are based on form and function and reducing our costs.

Like I said, boxes are cheaper to build. You know, I don’t want to knock the beauty of the proposal for this school you’re building in Inuvik, but a box would have been cheaper, and we would have been able to fit the same number of classes. We probably would have found convenient ways to heat it, and we would have had a good school with the classrooms required to educate the children of the North. It didn’t need to be most beautiful thing on Earth.

For future reference — I am going to throw it out there — we’re going to keep building schools in the Northwest Territories. We’re still going to need hospitals. We’re still going to need community health centres. There are a lot of things we are going to be building over the years, and I would like to see us get a little bit away from “let’s build something incredibly beautiful” to “let’s build something that is practical, makes sense and will last in the northern economy based on the realities that we are facing,” which includes things like global warming and the price of oil. If we keep trying to build these grand, beautiful buildings, we are going to cause a lot of damage to ourselves and to our bank account in very short order.

So no real question there, but I am throwing it out there, because we need to seriously think about it, and we need to make sure that what we are building is practical and is the right building to build. It doesn’t need to be the most beautiful.

I do have one question. A lot of these estimates, I understand, were based on market information for the last year or so when oil was quite bit a higher. Oil has dropped, so does that mean we will see any sort of savings in the construction of this if the oil price stays down where it is now for a portion of the construction year?

Minister of Finance.

Thank Mr. Chairman. Just quickly in response to the Member’s suggestion, the subcommittee on infrastructure that is looking at the capital planning process is in fact considering those very things that the Member has raised. There has been work underway that is being done, which is why we are, in fact, in this Legislature at this point in time doing capital early. Standardized designs and the bundling of contracts are some other things that are very evident to us as opportunities that the Member has pointed out, not only for schools but for houses and health centres. We appreciate the concern about costs as we sit here as a Legislature year after year.

In terms of the potential savings, if the cost of oil stays down for any significant length of time, combined with other factors — if there is tightening

up or a chilling effect in terms of construction projects and things that aren’t going to get built and there are some more interesting projects and steel and things are more available — those could all be potentially things that we can benefit from. At this point things are so fluid it will be too early to say.

We’re on page 7-7, Education, Culture and Employment, Activity Summary, Infrastructure Investment Summary, Total Infrastructure Investment Summary: $74 million. Mr. Jacobson.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Sitting here, looking at the list that we have of the infrastructure acquisitions for ’09–10 and ’11–12, I do not see…. Basically, pretty bleak for the communities. We are not getting anything — again. I said it last week and put it in a Member’s statement. There are people having to share a bathroom at the Mangilaluk School, teachers. I see them eating lunches in the hallways. But then, you know, we can go and build a $110 million school, quoting it out of the newspaper today, and communities are being left out.

I mean, we are here. No fairness, again. I said it last week and I’m going to say it again: there’s no fairness. I know it has been in the books for years, and I do support the school in Inuvik. It’s a beautiful building, but what about the outlying communities? We’re having to send our kids to Inuvik for education, because the quality of the school in the communities is not adequate. They are having to do grade 12 again. This government has got to get their minds wrapped around it, letting the fairness show in regard to small communities. You know, I sit down here, same thing again: nothing. I can’t mention numbers, but a lot of these communities are hurting. The people of the Northwest Territories as a whole are not being treated fairly.

Minister of Finance.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the Member’s concern. The issue of more demands on our resources is one that we constantly struggle with. The Premier is committed to looking at the 20 year capital plan.

I know the issue, the request the Member is raising in the House, about an expansion of the school there. We also will be pulling together a timeline going back five years and going forward five years so that we can all get a tiered look at how capital has been apportioned out over that period of time. Then we can make informed decisions and adjustments and look at what the requirements are in terms of any improvements coming out of this capital planning process, which we have all agreed we are going to be revamping for the next little while.

Just a comment. You know, we have 33 communities in the Northwest Territories, and from what I see here, four of them are getting everything. It’s not right.

Mr. Chairman, once again I will just make the point that we are going to bring forward a ten year chronology. It’s very difficult to look at one particular point in time and make a long term review and assessment of how capital has been done. We know that the capital planning process needs improvement, which is why the infrastructure committee is at work. We appreciate the Member’s concern and will be working collectively here, as we move into the next business cycle, to look at how we address those issues.

I just want to let the Minister know that’s another four years. I won’t be here in four years; you never know. So, again, it’s not fair. Where’s the fairness?

Just a clarification from the Minister. Is there a possibility for a worksheet that will elaborate on the planning process? Is there a worksheet that may be distributed so that Members can see where they fit on that 10 year or 15 year plan that you are talking about?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That document is just getting updated. We expect to have it, hopefully, by Monday, which we will share. It will give you a retrospective. As well, we have the 20 year capital plan.

If I could just reassure the Member, the capital planning process is going to continue. There is opportunity on an ongoing basis to look at and have input into what’s on the capital plan and how it gets on there. It’s not a closed door for the next three years.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Next on the list I have Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The question that I have for the Minister or his staff is that when the communities ask for additional space in these facilities such as Inuvik or even Tulita, the community had to buy into the deposits. The community had to upfront some money in terms of additional spaces that they need, and then the community put the funding to, say in Tulita, the addition of a stage to the gymnasium. Now that the budget has increased significantly for the Tulita school building by just over $20

million, the

community is asking why they had to put an extra $400,000 out of community capacity building for the addition of the stage. The budget is already up $6 million more than what was originally budgeted for.

Then they came back, and this is something that they wanted me to ask in terms of this funding here. It seems that the schools…. Because of the prices and the labour and the steel and fuel, these prices are going to be increasing every year. I know Fort Good Hope appreciates this process of checking out the school and getting it constructed and for this school there. They have an option also to allow them to put funding towards the school.

There are other schools in the Territories, Mr. Chairman, in terms of making contributions to infrastructure to these facilities. But it seems these prices are always escalating, and they are saying: why do we have to put in the money here when you’re putting an extra $3 million, $4 million, $5 million into these buildings?

Minister of Finance.