Question is being called. I will now call upon Mr. Krutko to conclude debate on the motion.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, colleagues, and I thank the Minister for his comments. Again, we’re spending $20 million, but I believe we’re going to be coming back here in the next short while wondering where the money went. I have to state that due process was not followed in this case. From the Minister’s comments today he doesn’t know what the terms of the leases are in the Inuvik region. Are they month to month? Are they one year? Are they five years? Are they ten year leases? Without that information, you can’t tell me that the government will remain in those facilities in the near future. Without having a plan by way of a market disruption plan to understand what the implications of this will be over the next five, ten or 20 years…. Due diligence wasn’t done in that context.

I think it is important that this government realizes, as we hear time and time again in this House, that we do not have the dollars or the resources to do what we’d like. I know, for Members who come from small communities, we see the situation in our facilities where you walk into a principal’s office and there are buckets on the floor or pots throughout the school because of leaking roofs. Mould is now appearing in our public facilities. Yet we’re going

ahead with a $20 million and in some cases it looks like a $25 million project, if you look at the numbers.

I think it’s important to realize that as Members of this Legislature we are responsible to protect the public purse. I know that it’s important to realize that we do need to make some tough decisions. We also have to realize that there are going to be implications to this decision when we’ll have to consider our deficit elimination process in the next couple months and in the years ahead. I believe that we have to do justice to the people of the Northwest Territories when we’re spending $20 million on this type of capital, realizing we’re not in a stable market in regard to what’s going on with the economy and, more importantly, what’s going on in Canada and the rest of the world. I don’t think we’re immune to that.

We can sit in here and talk about outhouses in downtown Yellowknife, but we don’t have the resources to do it. I think we have these challenges where we have such a dismal situation with regard to the health and well-being of our residents that we are now seeing homelessness on our streets, people having to go to food banks. I think that’s the reality of the day that we’re seeing here in the Northwest Territories. It wasn’t that way a number of years ago.

I think it’s important to realize that by spending money foolishly by way of this project, it will have a major implication on this project. All this motion asks for is that the government step back, do the market disruption analysis, get back to committee in January and let us know what your findings are.

Also, ensure that the government does a technical evaluation of what the facilities are that our government owns at the present time, find out what the status is of those facilities, and do a technical evaluation and report back to standing committee. That’s all this motion asks for: that the government take the time and do due diligence in regard to its responsibility not only to this Legislature but also to the people of the Northwest Territories, who we are solely responsible to.

I’d like to ask the Members to consider this motion, and I’d ask for a recorded vote.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. The Member has requested a recorded vote. All those in favour, please stand.

All those opposed, please stand.

All those abstaining.

The results of the recorded vote on the motion are four in favour, eight opposed and five abstentions. The motion is defeated.

Committee motion defeated.

We’re on page 4-4, Public Works and Services, Activity Summary, Asset Management, Infrastructure Investment Summary, Total Infrastructure Investment Summary. Mr. Krutko.

I move to report progress.

There’s a motion on the floor to report progress. The motion is in order and is not debateable.

Motion defeated.

Okay. So we’re back on page 4-4, Public Works and Services, Activity Summary, Asset Management, Infrastructure Investment Summary. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Minister, earlier on when I asked a question in regard to leases in Inuvik, mentioned that he didn’t have it. Does he have it at the present time? I think he’s got enough staff by way of Public Works and Services that he should be able to compile that information. He had a couple of hours. I’d like to ask the Minister if that information has been brought forward. I think this government cannot knowingly or unknowingly know what the implication of this decision is until you know what the terms of those leases are for the government in regard to the Inuvik project. I’d like to ask: exactly what are the terms of the leases? Do you have month to month leases? Is it one year, two year, or three year terms in regard to leases in Inuvik for the government offices?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Minister Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I understand that information was provided to committee. We don’t have the detailed information about the terms of the various leases. I’ve already committed to get that for committee. We were asked an hour or so ago. In the meantime we haven’t had a chance to get that information.

Mr. Chairman, it worries me, hearing from the Minister of Public Works and Services about all the concerns in regard to security, accessibility, the health of the buildings and whatnot. Just on those arguments alone it tells me that departments are going to be finding excuses to move out of these leases. Yet you supposedly assure us that will not happen. We’ve already seen it happen in regard to the Department of Environment by moving out of a facility out to Shell Lake, converting the buildings out there into office space. I bet you a dollar to a doughnut that the Department of Environment will be in this new building as soon as it’s built. I know you can sit here and say you’ll guarantee that nobody will move out of those buildings. We’ve already seen that experience in Inuvik in regard to the Department of Environment. I know, basically, from the list of groups that are going to be looking for alternative space from the Divisional Board of Education, from ECE setting up clinics and whatnot, that will have a major implication on ensuring we do have long term leases or commitments to the private sector. Right now I know for a fact that most of those leases you’re talking about are month to month leases.

How can you tell me that there are not going to be any long term implications in regard to this specific arrangement in Inuvik, especially for leased space? How can you stand here and guarantee that there’s not going to be anything? Until I can see the guarantee in black and white, I know for a fact that this will have an implication for groups or organizations wanting to move. This has been on the minds of many senior officials in Inuvik for some time, how to find the perfect excuse to move out of these facilities, and now we’ve given it to them. I’d like to know: does the deputy minister know how many month to month leases are in Inuvik?

Mr. Chairman, for the record let me restate that the building that ENR was in is being fitted up, as was pointed out in this House this evening and earlier today, to be the Community Learning Centre in Inuvik, which had to shut down because the building they were in was no longer habitable. The commitment that the government has to the private sector in Inuvik is substantial. Ninety-three per cent of all the space that we have in Inuvik is leased or rented from the private sector. We know that the Perry Building is month to month. The rest of the detail of all the other leases I’ve committed and I’ll commit yet again to get for the Members.

In regard to making that decision, trying to acquire information after the fact doesn’t help us here. We need that information now in order to know that the decision we’re making will not have an implication for the retail market in Inuvik. Knowing that these leases are month to month, there is no certainty by way of lease commitments. So how can you expect us to make a

rash decision on the basis of not having that information in front of us?

I’ll have to check Hansard, but there’s got to be at least half a dozen articulations of the commitment from the Minister of Public Works and Services and me on the record in Hansard indicating that we are replacing most of our own space, that current retail space won’t be impacted. The Minister, in fact, when he spoke to the motion, reiterated those same commitments. I don’t know at this point what more the Member wants. It’s on the record. It’s there and it’s a commitment.

Mr. Chair, can the Minister tell me: where does the Financial Management Board Secretariat presently work in Inuvik?

They currently reside in some offices that they’ve been using in the MACA office on a back road. I’m not sure of the name of the road, but it’s in the MACA building close to the Public Works building, I believe.

The Beaufort-Delta Health and Social Services Authority health clinic…. I believe there’s already a clinic in Inuvik. Is that the same clinic that you’re going to be relocating in regard to this particular health clinic in Inuvik?