Good afternoon, colleagues. Welcome back to the Chamber. Orders of the Day. Item 2, Ministers’ statements. Mr. Miltenberger.

Mr. Speaker, today I would like to provide the Assembly with an update on the work of the Refocusing Government Strategic Initiative Committee. This committee has been tasked by Cabinet with advancing a number of this Assembly’s priorities related to the operations of government, including improving service delivery to small communities, managing the cost of government and examining how we can change the structure of government to deliver better results.

One of the Assembly’s priorities is to complete a thorough analysis of the efficiency, effectiveness and value of current government operations. To accomplish this, we have established a program review office in the Department of Executive. This office will lead a number of activities designed to manage expenditure growth, make our programs and services more effective and improve the government’s success in reporting on results.

The office is up and running and has begun to identify priority areas for targeted program review. This work will proceed in partnership with departments to ensure that we get solid, credible program information combined with objective analysis and program evaluation expertise.

The program review office will also ensure that the government has policies in place to ensure that the departments conduct regular monitoring and evaluation of all programs and services and that we

use the results of these evaluations to support tough decisions about allocation of government resources.

To begin this work, we are taking a close look at some of the program areas that represent the greatest proportion of our expenditures — health programs, schools, and adult education and training — to see if there is potential for improved efficiency or savings. We’re also looking at program areas that have been identified as priorities by the Assembly, including youth and economic development programs, to ensure we are getting value for our investments.

Mr. Speaker, another key component of the work to increase efficiency of government operations is to reduce the number of boards and agencies that have been set up to deliver government programs and services. This is not a new challenge for this Assembly. There have been a number of reviews on this topic, including extensive work done during the 15th Assembly, and all have recommended that

the number of boards and agencies needs to be reduced.

Altogether well over 100 boards and agencies are involved in the delivery of government services. As a first step we are looking at streamlining and structuring operations of boards in three key program areas: health and social services, education and housing. Today there are 70 boards at the regional and community level involved in governance in these areas. These boards were created with the best of intentions to ensure that there is local and regional input into decision-making.

This proliferation of boards has actually created barriers to service delivery. Roles and responsibilities are confused, meaning there is often no clear accountability. There’s duplication and overlap in administration, resulting in fewer resources available for programs. Clients must deal with two or three agencies to obtain services when they would benefit from an integrated approach. The level and quality of services delivered differs from region to region, and it is a continual challenge to find enough people to fill all the board positions.

We are proposing to reduce the number of government boards for these programs from 70 to seven by establishing six regional service boards to oversee and coordinate all program delivery for health and social services, education and housing, and one coordinating committee including board Chairs and the appropriate Ministers. Based on the very successful model of the Tlicho Community Services Agency, these regional boards will be built on greater efficiency and a more client focused, service oriented approach. They will be structured to be congruent with emerging aboriginal self-government boundaries and will support the eventual transfer of program responsibilities to these governments.

There will still be an opportunity for communities to have input into programs and services at the local level through community education committees or interagency committees. How communities choose to do this will be different from region to region.

We recognize that there are challenges. In Yellowknife, for example, there are three existing education boards with very broad mandates, and the Yellowknife Health and Social Services Authority serves a larger population than any other regional authority. We will have to take the time to assess how to implement reform in this complex situation. In other regions we should be able to move more quickly to implementation.

Mr. Speaker, we understand that there is a strong desire on the part of existing boards to provide input as we move forward. We will still be seeking the views and ideas of current board members and administrators and other key stakeholders on how to proceed. But be very clear: we are not consulting on whether board reform is needed. We are determined to move forward with this long overdue initiative with a view to implementation in the 2010–2011 fiscal year.

There’s a lot of work to do to meet this target. Work is underway to define the functions and responsibilities of the new regional service boards. Further work will need to be done to streamline and integrate financial and administrative systems. There will be a need for legislative amendments and significant human resource challenges, as well as further analysis of the potential costs and savings associated with implementation.

We have been working in cooperation with all the departments to roll out this proposal. We have begun consultations with the chief executive officers of health and social services authorities and the district education authorities. We intend to meet with all authorities in the near future.

Mr. Speaker, I look forward to having the Chairs of the Social Programs Committee and the Economic Development Infrastructure Committee join us at

the Refocusing Government committee table. Their perspective will add great value to this important work.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. The honourable Minister of Transportation, Mr. Michael McLeod.

Mr. Speaker, today, October 21, is National Students Against Impaired and Distracted Driving Day, NSAIDD. It is also the tenth anniversary of this national day that focuses attention, especially among teens and young drivers, on the serious consequences of driving while impaired or distracted. More than 500,000 students across Canada, including the Northwest Territories, are actively engaged in reducing impaired and distracted driving on this day of awareness. It’s encouraging to see that many young people are advocating safe and healthy lifestyle choices and responsible decision-making.

Regrettably, impaired driving continues to be a serious problem in the Northwest Territories and in other parts of Canada. Despite years of intensive public education, more severe penalties and increased law enforcement, impaired driving continues to take the lives of Northerners. In the Northwest Territories seven people lost their lives due to collisions involving alcohol over the past five years. Another 86 people were injured. These collisions could have been prevented.

With the increasing use of technology such as cellular phones and text messaging, driver distraction is now an integral component of public information and messaging campaigns of this national driving awareness day. It is also a focus of our own Drive Alive! program, and for good reason. With the difficulties related to regulating and enforcing distracted driving, public information and awareness will be a key to reducing distracted driving. Some studies have shown that use of cellphones while driving slows reaction times to an extent similar to being intoxicated. I am very encouraged that messages regarding the effects of distracted driving have been included in this national day of awareness, especially in light of the positive role that public awareness has played in reducing impaired driving.

Yes, great progress has been made to reduce the incidence of impaired driving in Canada. In the past 20 years, as a result of the work of groups such as NSAIDD, MADD and SADD, there has been a steady decline in the number of collisions and injuries involving alcohol. I want to acknowledge the great work these groups have been doing in fighting impaired driving in the Northwest Territories.

I know Members of this House will join me in applauding the attitude and actions of these young adults who are promoting safer driving choices and participating in the National Students Against Impaired and Distracted Driving Day across Canada. They have made a real difference and will continue to do so. I encourage all Members to join the voices of our young people and spread the importance of making responsible choices when it comes to driving.

First, speak up. Say no to getting into a vehicle with a driver who is impaired. Speak up when others in your vehicle are distracting the driver or when the driver is fatigued or driving recklessly. Then speak out. Take a stand against the great harm that impaired and distracted driving does in our territory and in your community.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Minister of Environment and Natural Resources, Mr. Miltenberger.

Mr. Speaker, reducing consumption and recycling waste products is a way for all of us to help reduce the impact we have on the environment. It means we use fewer natural resources, use less energy to make new products, reduce greenhouse gas emissions and save money.

Individually, the people of the Northwest Territories can make positive choices to help reduce their impact on the environment, but they look to government to take initiative in developing programs to recover and recycle products and materials rather than put them into landfills. When given the opportunity, people willingly participate in recycling programs. The Beverage Container Program, with a recovery rate of 81 per cent last year, is a good example of how successful recycling programs can be. At the appropriate time today I will be tabling the Beverage Container Program Annual Report 2007–2008.

During January of 2008 the Department of Environment and Natural Resources developed and distributed a discussion paper on expanding the Waste Reduction and Recovery program. Based on what we heard, ENR is preparing a five year action plan outlining both short and long term goals for the program. Details will be outlined in the departmental business plan, but it is our intention to add electronics, milk containers, paper and cardboard to the list of products we recover and recycle. Longer term plans envision tires, lead acid batteries and fuel drums being added to this list.

Recently we have seen various communities across Canada take steps towards limiting the use of single use retail bags. The GNWT has the same goal. The department will initiate a program aimed at reducing and eventually eliminating the use of these bags within two years. As mentioned earlier, details will be outlined in the departmental business plan and will include education, alternatives and environmental levies in this area.

It is clear that waste reduction and recycling is important to the people of the Northwest Territories. Expanding this program will not only help greatly extend the lives of local landfills but will also maintain and improve the quality of our environment.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Item 3, Members’ statements. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Ms. Bisaro.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to use my Member’s statement today to comment on some of the remarks I’ve heard the Premier make over the last little while.

In his sessional statement at the beginning of this month the Premier mentioned that we must manage government expenditures. Thank goodness that’s still a focus. We absolutely must pursue the goal of matching expenditures to our revenue.

The Premier went on to mention some actions the government might take to manage our expenditures — identifying areas for financial improvement and reinvesting our dollars wisely, for example. I agree that both are completely necessary. In our current economic climate it’s mandatory that the target of all of our investments is that of reducing the cost of living.

As to managing expenditures, I unfortunately have little faith that the cuts we anticipate in the upcoming operations budget for ’09–10 will in fact be thought out and researched. Once bitten, twice shy, unfortunately. And in my view NWT residents were badly bitten by the cuts made in the budget we passed last June.

There’s also a need for the government to review existing policies. They must be viewed through a different lens and amended to enable residents, not create roadblocks to their efforts to gain independence. As the strategic initiative committee goes about its business of refocusing government, I hope that the revamping of policy will be front and centre of its agenda.

A couple of times I’ve heard the Premier speak of regionalization in the NWT but with no accompanying explanation. I wonder just what this means and how it will be beneficial to the NWT and our constituents.

To my last point, Mr. Speaker. The Premier has stated that subsidies lower the cost of living for us. I cannot agree. Subsidies make life affordable but don’t actually lower the price of commodities like gas or milk. Nor do they change the actual expense of an accommodation unit. Subsidies stifle our people and keep them reliant on someone else instead of themselves. We need to work towards elimination of all the subsidies the government provides. We need to find a way to make people independent, providing for themselves and leading productive, satisfying lives.

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, Mr. Beaulieu.

Mahsi cho, Mr. Speaker. [English translation not provided.]

Today I’d like to talk about replacing heavy equipment in Fort Resolution and Lutselk’e. It has been brought to my attention that heavy equipment in Fort Resolution and Lutselk’e are being replaced much earlier than they should be due to improper maintenance. This causes communities to use their budgets to replace expensive pieces of equipment well before the equipment should be replaced.

Under the ideal situation — I’m no expert — I believe that heavy equipment should last roughly 20 years. However, due to a lack of maintenance some of these assets are being replaced well before their time. Ideally, equipment should be retrofitted once at midlife and replaced when they should be.

Mr. Speaker, this is an expensive burden on communities and the government when some equipment costs in the range of $250,000. Part of the problem is unlimited O&M budgets to maintain heavy equipment. For example, to hire qualified mechanics and have them perform regular, scheduled maintenance is a challenge for smaller communities like Fort Resolution and Lutselk’e. Many times the community must hire mechanics from outside the community. In the case of Lutselk’e they also have to cover the cost of travel, accommodation and freight. This quickly depletes the maintenance budget, so the communities find themselves in a catch-22.

With inadequate maintenance budgets heavy equipment is not properly maintained, resulting in replacement much sooner than necessary, and this contributes to budgetary issues. With adequate

maintenance budgets, Mr. Speaker, communities can maintain their heavy equipment assets properly, resulting in a longer operating life and safer pieces of equipment. In the long run we’ll effectively save substantial dollars for both the communities and the GNWT.

Mr. Speaker, the department needs to do more to assist these communities so they’re able to properly maintain heavy equipment, and the communities can use their valuable budgets on other, more important items as opposed to replacing equipment well before its time.

Later on today I’ll have questions for the appropriate Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. The honourable Member for Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Last week I was privy to the exchange between Hon. Minister Lee and my colleague Mr. Hawkins on a health care issue in downtown Yellowknife.

It says in Hansard that Ms. Lee, the honourable Minister, has stated that we’re pouring millions and millions into downtown services, that one of the richest parts of the health care service is going to downtown Yellowknife.

I was shocked to hear this, because my region has been looking for a long time at areas that we could fill to bring up standards by other communities in terms of health care services. The Sahtu has been asking for a regional wellness health centre like any other health centre in Inuvik, Fort Simpson, Hay River, Fort Smith or Yellowknife. We’ve been asking for this.

Actually, I’ve been doing some research. In 2005 I talked about health care in the Sahtu. In 2007 I had a statement that talked about a regional wellness centre in the Sahtu. Again in 2008 I’m bringing this issue up in terms of having a regional wellness health centre in the Sahtu. My people have faced many challenges, and we’d like to see if we can enjoy the benefits that other regions have in terms of care for our people.

You know, the weather plays a very important role in terms of medevacking, transferring people to Inuvik or Yellowknife. In terms of the travel, they have to get them on a flight, and sometimes they are unable to make it, like in other small communities. Mr. Speaker, the people in the Sahtu have been asking for a regional wellness health centre, and I haven’t seen it yet in the capital books.

I understand that some of the regions have waited years and years to get additional services in their region. We are waiting for a regional wellness centre. If you go into Tulita, for example, our health centre is busting at the seams. It’s embarrassing when you have an eye clinic in Tulita that has boxes and chairs sitting in front of you — a proper eye clinic. Or the dental services in our region as well as Tulita…. The hallways are crowded. We have a short time. You go into Colville Lake. People have to wonder if they’re playing…. And if it is, the doctor looks at his clock and says: oh, I’ve got to be there by 5 o’clock. That’s deplorable in our region.

I’ll be asking the Minister at the appropriate time what she can do to indicate that she can start pouring millions into our health care system in the Sahtu. We have a health board. We are ready to go, and we are ready to work with her. We need a regional health centre.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. The honourable Member for Nunakput, Mr. Jacobson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We were so busy yesterday we didn’t do Members’ statements, so today I’d like to bring up birthday greetings for Ms. Persis Gruben in Tuktoyaktuk. It was her 90th birthday yesterday.

I’d like to apologize that I couldn’t deliver my special birthday greeting in person. They had a big feast in the home last night, and I was only given the highlights of it last night. On this special day reaching this age in your life is a great milestone, and we’re so grateful that you’re still active and healthy.

We are very fortunate to have an elder like you in our community of Tuk. I can only imagine the changes you have seen in the North and the Government of the Northwest Territories throughout your lifetime. Through your wisdom and knowledge I’ll continue to represent the Nunakput riding with the grace and wisdom shown by your encouraging influence.

On behalf of the government of the Northwest Territories and my family I wish you health and happiness on your 90th birthday, Ms. Persis

Gruben.

Thank you, Mr. Jacobson. The honourable Member for Kam Lake, Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m going to speak today about the Premiers’ conference that was held recently in Montreal. There is one Premier out of the 13 provincial and territorial leaders who was absent from that meeting. That was our Premier, Mr. Roland.

The Premiers were meeting to discuss the global economic crisis and how the provinces and territories will be impacted by these volatile economic times. More important is the fact that the federal government will be a key player in fiscal issues pertaining to the provinces and territories. The backdrop to this meeting is the global financial crisis that the International Monetary Fund estimates will result in global financial losses of more than $1 trillion. The potential credit crunch threatens a global recession that will result in the slowest economic growth in 17 years, according to the Bank of Canada.

There is a growing concern that the federal government will have to run deficits in the coming years. Just last year a more generous equalization formula was brought in by the Conservative government. There is a fear among the Premiers that like the Chrétien government in the 1990s, the current government may entertain cuts to transfers to the provinces and territories as a way to balance budgets.

With these very compelling reasons our Premier should have been at the table with the other Premiers. The Northwest Territories fought long and hard to get a seat at the national table. When a meeting like this is called, we need to be there. In his sessional statement the Premier states, “There is a lot of confusion and uncertainty out there, and NWT residents and businesses will be affected.” Why, then, would our Premier, who is elected to represent all the residents of the Northwest Territories, choose to be absent?

With his comments to the CBC yesterday it would appear that the Premier was more interested in capital projects in his riding than the interests of the territory as a whole. I would like to remind the Premier that he has given the role of Finance Minister to Mr. Miltenberger, who also happens to be the very capable Deputy Premier, and he has a very solid Minister of Public Works and Services. The capital appropriation would have been dealt with accordingly. It’s hard to be taken seriously at the national level when you don’t show up to the meetings.

I’ll have questions for the Premier at the appropriate time. Mahsi.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Bromley.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am encouraged to see this government bring some focused attention to our energy issues in its recent Energy Priorities Framework. In particular, I see us beginning to act in ways that recognize the need to reduce energy costs through common sense activities like conservation, efficiency and switching to local and renewable sources.

The framework is full of excellent recommendations. I suggest that our people take a look at this. I see it is open for comments, and the government is obviously wanting feedback on it. I encourage people to do so.

However, significant gaps remain in this framework. Possibly the largest is transportation. Transportation is probably one of the largest sources of our rising cost of living. It’s fossil fuel intensive, and its greenhouse gas emissions are very high; there is no attention paid to it at all. Mr. Speaker, I think we need some real progressive work in this area. How are we going to move to a low greenhouse gas intensive way of getting around and transporting our goods and services?

Another one is the expertise. We don’t talk about expertise needed to implement a lot of these things, especially in our communities. We need some Aurora College programs that really get access, some technical and trades level expertise. We need an awards and recognition level to build this expertise in our communities.

People and business will willingly adopt many of these things if we have the feasibility studies, the payback times and the monitoring and demonstration to show them the things that actually work. Natural gas is recommended here, and I want to put up a big yellow flag on natural gas. Although it is a cleaner burning fuel, you have to burn a lot more of it. It is a fossil fuel that is rising steadily in cost just as the other fossil fuels are. So we need to be very cautions there. If we can, let’s leap right to a renewable energy source that will be provided locally and provide our local economies with some stimulus.

The industry is not really talked about, Mr. Speaker. We need some carbon neutral development here. We have the political and moral authority. Let’s get the critical approach going that we really require here.

Perhaps I could ask for unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

Unanimous consent granted.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank you, colleagues. I think possibly the biggest thing we can do here is a thorough and complete review and possibly restructuring of the Northwest Territories Power Corporation. I think this is something we all know at heart. All our residents and constituents have been talking to us about this. We have some real opportunities here. People can start generating and delivering their own energy needs and contributing it to the grid through net metering and so on. We need some real progressive grassroots work there, so let’s get that done.

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Menicoche.

Mr. Speaker, an NTCL barge, which was being moved by a tug, hit a shoal at Wrigley Rock in the Mackenzie River early in the morning of Tuesday, August 25, 2008. The barge was loaded with diesel fuel and building supplies. The tugboat is operated by Horizon North Logistics Inc.

The Horizon North representative reported that the crew discovered a hairline fracture at the waterline when they were checking the barge after the incident. The crew deployed containment booms and contacted the necessary authorities. The crew transferred the fuel from the leaking compartment into another compartment on the barge. The Horizon North representatives suggested fog and wind as the likely cause of the incident. Transport Canada is investigating the accident. The Coast Guard led the response to the oil spill and has worked with Horizon North to limit the amount of diesel fuel released.

The barge contained 577,000 litres in total, with 85,000 litres in the affected compartment. The Coast Guard representative reported that diesel fuel evaporates and dissipates quickly when released into the environment. Approximately 60 per cent of the spill would have evaporated within 24 hours, and the water quality was and has been monitored at that point.

Mr. Speaker, as we all know, any amount of fuel spilled into our rivers is too much. Local constituents have suggested to me that the federal agencies were slow in responding and have minimized the importance of the incident. Northerners expect that federal regulators can learn from these events and improve their response time and action so that they can be ready for large scale development and pipeline activity.

Mr. Speaker, at the appropriate time I will be asking the Minister responsible questions on this incident. Mahsi cho.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. The honourable Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to take this opportunity to summarize for the record what we have learned about the process for the acquisition of a few replacement schools in Inuvik.

No one will dispute that the Inuvik schools were old and in need of being replaced. The process that ensued, however, raises questions for me about the role of Ministers and Premiers in performing their duties as Cabinet Ministers in relation to their work as representatives of their constituencies.

We don’t expect Minister’s constituencies to be passed over for enhanced program services or infrastructure, but neither would I expect that they would get any preferential treatment by the Cabinet. Every Cabinet Minister of this government owes a duty of fairness to all communities, regions and constituencies in the NWT.

The government was approached with the idea of a negotiated contract for what has become known as the super school in Inuvik. The negotiated contract was supported by community leaders, including the local MLAs, as evidenced by letters of support. From there we are told, and I accept, that the Member for Inuvik Boot Lake removed himself from Cabinet deliberations. Former Premier Joe Handley signed off the Cabinet record of decision. In conjunction with that, however, at least two more records of decisions from the Financial Management Board were signed off by the Chair, also the Member for Inuvik Boot Lake.

The thing that still remains unclear for me is how it would be Cabinet policy for the Member signing a letter of support to be removed from discussing a project but could subsequently chair deliberations and ultimately sign off on the ensuing decision.

I’m not pleased with the length that I had to go doing questioning to get this amount of information. This is a public government, and it is spending public funds and making decisions that need to be transparent and accountable and publicly defendable. I’m limited in the answers I can get in this House.

Mr. Speaker, now that this process has revealed this seeming lack of clarity in the policy of Cabinet and the process, I am going to be referring my questions regarding this process to someone who

can get the answers to ensure that Cabinet policies remove any appearance or perception of conflict when Members of Cabinet are performing their duties in relation to their own constituency. I think this will be beneficial for everyone and will not allow Members to hide behind superficial answers like the ones I received initially, professing non-participation, only to find out that both financial appropriations were signed off….

Mrs. Groenewegen, time for your Member’s statement has expired.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

Unanimous consent granted.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thanks, colleagues. I am sorry; I am not feeling well today and not doing as good a job of communicating as I should be. As I said, I believe that we can get answers to these questions and we can bring clarity to these policies. I think it will be to the benefit of everyone, and that is what I intend to do.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Abernethy.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would also like to thank the Minister responsible for the Refocusing Government Strategic Initiative Committee for his comments today on reducing the number of boards and agencies in the NWT.

I believe that over 70 boards and agencies providing services for around 42,000 people might be a little on the excessive side. I agree that something needs to be done. I believe that reducing the number of agencies could result in administrative efficiencies as well as an improved holistic focus of services to people of the NWT.

Having said this, I do have some concerns. Today I am not convinced that rolling all the health authorities into regional authorities is the right answer, especially when it comes to the mobility of health professionals like nurses. Also, how do we roll a territorial authority like Stanton Territory Health Authority into a regional model?

I’m happy to see that the Minister recognizes some of these challenges. I look forward to participating as an elected Member of this Legislative Assembly in finding solutions and setting directions. I’d also like to thank the Minister and the Premier for including the Chairs of EDI and Social Programs on the Refocusing Government committee. This is an

important and difficult initiative with long term effects. Let’s work together and get it right in the best interest of all Northerners.

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr.Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We’ve been seeing the decrease in the markets in fuel prices; it’s now below $80 a barrel. Yet in our communities we continue to pay exorbitant amounts for fuel. In Aklavikthey’re paying, right now, $1.76 a litre, and it supposedly went up by 3 cents. If anything, you’d think it would have come down.

As the government we also have a responsibility to protect our consumers to ensure there’s not price gouging and to realize that there has been emerging a decline in the price of fuel and the effects it does have in regard to our economy: power rates, operating and maintaining a home, being able to run your vehicles and operating your equipment.

Mr. Speaker, I think it’s important that this government does consider looking at the possibility of bringing in legislation that will be able to control, monitor and also, in some cases, restrict these types of increases from taking place. On one hand, they tell you the market is based on the world economy, yet when a barrel of fuel drops to less than $80 a barrel, we continue to see fuel prices going up. I believe there is something wrong with that picture.

I think, Mr. Speaker, it’s important that we as a government protect the residents of the Northwest Territories from outside sources by way of our dependency on fuel from other parts of the Northwest Territories. It will be a tough year for people in the Northwest Territories. I believe we bought our fuel at the high end in regard to this summer’s resupply for fuel for power plants for communities to maintain our homes and our communities.

Mr. Speaker, at the appropriate time I will be asking the Minister of Finance what this government is doing to ensure that we have the policies and legislationthere to protect our consumers in regard to the high price of fuel in the Northwest Territories, when the rest of the world is seeing a decrease in the price of fuel commodities.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you Mr. Speaker. There is a serious shortage of diesel fuel across western Canada. Many drivers are nervous about the supply and whether it will dry up altogether. Most certainly the question out there today is how effective is the resupply going to be in the North, both the supply as well as the price. Those are important questions. In a recent news broadcast a spokesman from Petro-Canada said the shortage is due to an unexpected high demand this month from wholesalers. In addition, problems at several Alberta refineries have combined with diesel fuel in short supply. Two refineries have temporarily shut down diesel production. A third refinery is not producing at full capacity. What we have here is a perfect storm of problems, because this uncertainty is real.

Mr. Speaker, last weekend I went to Edmonton, and in a polite fashion, while I was filling up my vehicle, I asked the store clerk: how are things going? He said miserable, because they had no diesel fuel to offer anyone, and he said the supply chain is broken and is getting worse. It wasn’t at one gas station alone I heard this problem. I heard it at others.

I fear the situation could have negative effects on all Northerners. A slowdown in trucking deliveries could lead to shortages of products on our store shelves. That could be food. That could be gas to fill our tanks. Mr. Speaker, that could be home heating fuel to warm ourselves in this coming cold winter. Let us not forget that Christmas is coming, and I certainly hope merchandise won’t be shorted on our shelves.

This problem has existed for a couple of months now, and all indications are that it is not fully resolved and should not be resolved until approximately November. Some fill-up stations in the South are rationing the amount of fuel that they can sell to certain customers. Mr. Speaker, I fear that this may come here, and I certainly hope it does not. Some diesel fuel supplies from Eastern Canada are being delivered west so that this situation can be eased due to the shortage.

I will have questions for the Minister of Public Works later today to ask him what he is doing about the situation and how well aware he is of the situation. I want to make sure his department is on top of the situation. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery.

Colleagues, I would like draw your attention to the presence in the visitors’ gallery of Mr. Dan Kardash, formerly a resident of Hay River. Dan lived in Hay River for many years. He was a schoolteacher and a successful businessman. Beside him is his son Mr. Brian Kardash, who happens to be husband to our very own Patricia Russell. Welcome to the House, gentlemen.

The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, Mr. Beaulieu.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I, too, would like to recognize Brian Kardash, a schoolteacher from Fort Resolution from last year and Patricia’s husband, as you indicated. I never met his father, but I understand that’s Dan Kardash.

Third time lucky. I would also like to recognize Mr. Brian Kardash, a resident of Weledeh, and of course his father. I would also like to recognize Sue Bevington and her companion, also residents of Weledeh.

Mr. Speaker, it’s not very often I get a chance to recognize a constituent down from Inuvik: Conrad Baetz, who works out of the North Mackenzie District for Indian and Northern Affairs and, I believe, his mother, Greta, beside him.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. I welcome everyone to the gallery today. I hope you’re enjoying the proceedings. Item 6, acknowledgements. Item 7, oral questions. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Menicoche.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to follow up on my questions to the Minister of Environment and Natural Resources with regard to, I think they call it, the Rocky Island barge spill. It was just south of Fort Wrigley. It happened in August. One of the barges ran aground.

The biggest concern, Mr. Speaker, is that there was slow response by authorities to access this spill. The other concern is that because of the slow response, the amount of spillage was not adequately reported. I’d just like to ask the Minister: what is his latest assessment of this grounding of a barge on the island just below Wrigley?

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. The honourable Minister of Environment and Natural Resources, Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Transport Canada continues to investigate the situation. We, as well, have received the same initial information in terms of the amount of the spill, which was, according to the captain, estimated to be very small, between ten and 15 litres.

I know there have been concerns that there was an oil sheen or a sheen on the water that was quite expansive and extensive. Our people won’t even know. This is a Transport Canada issue. We were one of the first folks there. The issue was dealt with as quickly as possible. The formal numbers for the spill are relatively small.

I would like to commend our Department of Environment and Natural Resources for being there as quickly as they were. The federal department and the Coast Guard were very slow in getting there.

How do we do a balance of the fuel that was in the barge and the actual fuel that they did take out of that compartment? Once again, the constituents who were there on the site, as well, said that with the amount of sheen, the amount of spill seemed that it far, far exceeded the 20 litres that was reported. How can we get a good assessment of this, Mr. Speaker? Also, I don’t think it’s doing anybody any favours to be hiding any excess amounts.

Mr. Speaker, the barge contained 577,000

litres of fuel. The

compartment that was punctured had about 85,000

litres of fuel. My understanding of the

process is that the barge was hauled in to where it could be dealt with and repaired. The punctured compartment was pumped out, and the amount of litres that were taken out was of course measured against what was supposed to be in there. What those numbers are we don’t know yet. That information hasn’t been shared with us that I’m aware of. It’s still under investigation.

I don’t think that at this point it’s an issue of any kind of cover-up or folks hiding things. It’s fairly straightforward. The assumption is that when we see the report, they’ll be able to show the numbers: what was initially in the punctured compartment and what was pumped out.

I’m looking forward to any preliminary report that does come from the federal agencies or even ours. I’m just wondering if the Minister has any current report with regard to that spill.

Mr. Speaker, the investigation is still underway. I understand Transport Canada officials, the inspector, was in Hay River early in September to interview crew members as part of the investigation. I have yet to see any reports, preliminary or otherwise.

I will commit to the Member for the Sahtu and all the affected…. In fact, I’ll update all the Members once we get the report. Given the concern and the fact that this is a major river flowing down through the Mackenzie Valley, we’ll share that information with all the MLAs.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Final supplementary, Mr. Menicoche.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I guess what we need, as well, from our Government of the Northwest Territories perspective is a good post-mortem to see why some agencies didn’t respond in time. I’d like to ask the Minister at this time: will he be conducting an assessment from the GNWT perspective as to how effective the response was to this incident?

There is a plan to sit down and do the debriefing. We’ll see what Transport Canada comes up with in terms of the official report. We had officials on the ground in relatively short order, and they have perspective and some information and advice, I think, to bring to bear to ensure, as the Member indicates, that we do a proper post-mortem and debriefing to find out what happened and why and what can be learned from the incident to ensure that there’s no repetition in the future.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, Mr. Beaulieu.

Mahsi cho, Mr. Speaker. Today I talked about the maintenance of heavy equipment assets in Fort Resolution and Lutselk’e and the need for the department to provide assistance to the communities. I’d like to follow up on my statement with questions for the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs.

Will the department work with the communities in developing much needed maintenance programs for the heavy equipment assets in both Fort Resolution and Lutselk’e?

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. The honourable Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. Robert McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As part of the New Deal the authority for capital infrastructure was transferred over to the

communities. Along with that transfer came the responsibility for maintaining a lot of the equipment they have. Having said that, MACA does work with the community governments to establish preventative maintenance plans to ensure that equipment lasts for a while. There are also the community works advisers in each regional office to assist the communities in coming up with these plans.

I don’t believe the money allocated to the communities for this activity takes into consideration hiring qualified mechanics from outside the community or extra travel and accommodation costs for mechanics and, if parts are needed, expensive freight costs. Will the department look at increasing community budgets to allow them to properly maintain their equipment?

MACA provides O&M formula funding to all community governments to support them in operating and maintenance in their communities. They do a review every couple of years to see if there’s an increase that might be needed because of the high cost of living and supplying these services. MACA is always willing to support community governments to try to find the most cost-effective ways to take care of the equipment they have in the community.

Will the Minister and the department agree to do a mechanical assessment of all heavy equipment in Tu Nedhe to determine what needs to be done to assist the communities to reduce capital expenditures in this area?

As I said earlier, MACA is doing all it can and will continue and commit to working with the communities to identify their equipment and come up with any type of plan that they can. This is the early stage of the New Deal, and MACA is always willing help the communities come up with a plan until they’re to a point where the capacity is there to take care of all this type of information themselves.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Final supplementary, Mr. Beaulieu.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. At one time the Department of Public Works maintained an office and staff in Lutselk’e and also had mechanics in Fort Resolution who looked after the maintenance of all heavy equipment in the community. This was discontinued eight years ago. Would the Minister look at working with the Department of Public Works to assist the communities in maintaining their equipment, in addition to what MACA is doing?

As the Minister of MACA I can’t make a commitment of funds on behalf of other Ministers. However, I will commit again that MACA’s staff will work with community

governments in Tu Nedhe to see what options they have and support them in ensuring their equipment and planning and preventative maintenance needs are looked after.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Ms. Bisaro.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions today are addressed to the Premier. As I mentioned in my Member’s statement, the Premier believes that subsidies lower the cost of living. As I mentioned in my statement, I don’t agree with him.

All the Members in this House I think have expressed concern recently about the expected increase that we’re going to experience in home heating fuel. Some have suggested that the government must implement a subsidy to assist residents. I’d like to ask the Premier how a fuel subsidy will reduce the NWT cost of living.

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. The Hon. Premier, Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The process we’re undergoing is budget preparations, as well as trying to look at cost effectiveness of programs. A number of initiatives we’ve started. The issue of subsidies is one we’ve looked at for quite a number of years. The total package ranges over $100 million, when you look at all the areas of housing, fuel subsidy and income support.

In the short term I’d say we have to look at the fact that we do limit the impact or stabilize the cost of living in many of our small and remote communities. Without that subsidy, the cost would go extremely higher. Our Territorial Power Support Program is an example of that. But I do believe in the long term that the market adjusts for those things. We do have to look at the way we spend our money in the area of subsidies and, as we go through our business plan preparations, be willing to hear from Members as to suggestions of how we look at things and ways we try to tackle this issue.

I thank the Premier for his comments. I didn’t really hear an answer — I guess I’m looking for a philosophical discussion here, but I didn’t really hear an answer — as to how the fuel subsidy will reduce the cost of living overall.

The cost of a litre of fuel is the cost of a litre of fuel, whether it’s subsidized or otherwise. A subsidy will simply reduce the bill to the building owner for heating that particular building. In my mind the only way to reduce the actual cost of living for the homeowner is to use an alternative or cheaper source of heat. I’d like to know if the Premier agrees with me.

I would agree with what the Member stated. The way we look at how we generate our electricity costs or just the generation of electricity and how it’s distributed across the North and then how we as a government deal with that side of it…. Again, our Territorial Power Support Program does limit and help with the cost of living in our more remote communities. If that full cost was passed on, then more dollars out of our constituents’ pockets would be spent on just utilities.

But we do need to look at other things. That is why, for example, the discussion paper has been launched by Minister Bob McLeod in the areas looking at alternative energies. As our budget preparation moves forward in the next cycle, we’re looking at trying to make critical investments in the area of other energy technologies so that we can look long term at reducing the cost of living. One of those big goals would be the hydro strategy.

Again, thanks to the Premier for his comments. He’s mentioned some of the things that we need to do, that we are doing, to try to mitigate the costs to all of our residents of actually living in this particular part of the country. I would like to ask the Minister specifically what actions are being undertaken to try and lower the cost of living for our residents in the short term. By short term I mean within the next six to eight months, over this winter.

Mr. Speaker, there are a number of things that are being reviewed in highlights of the upcoming budget preparations. More recently, for example, we’ve increased the Seniors Fuel Subsidy to limit the impact of the cost of living on our seniors who are on fixed incomes. That’s one of the areas, and again, that is short term. Other things we have to look at are mini hydro in some of our communities and wind technology to be put in place.

I think one of the other things we do need to look at, again, goes back to our main power source in the Northwest Territories and how we look at that. I stated earlier in this House that I met with the board and had a discussion with them about the fact that we could not leave any stone unturned in trying to limit the impact of the cost of living and the cost of electricity generation to Northerners.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Final supplementary, Ms. Bisaro.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank you, Mr. Premier. I appreciate that some things are long term. I am particularly concerned, as I said, about the six to eight month period that’s upcoming. I hear that there are a couple of things there.

The Premier mentioned the increase in the subsidy for seniors for their home heating fuel. I have to state that I disagree that a subsidy is going to have

an impact on the cost of living. The fuel is still going to cost the same amount of money whether there’s a subsidy for me as a senior or not. I’d like to say to the Premier that I think we have a disagreement in semantics. My understanding of the phrase “cost of living” I don’t think is the same as the Premier’s. I’d like to ask him if he agrees.

I agree to disagree, is maybe the term we can use. I look at the cost of living and I think a lot of us look at the cost of living as what we have pay out of our pockets to survive here in the Northwest Territories. Some of our steps are taken to mitigate that cost of living.

I agree that the cost for the real product is still there, and we have to work with that. For example, one of the other things we are working on through the Minister of ENR and his department, along with the Arctic Energy Alliance, I believe, is rebates on stoves and other equipment for homes. That, in the short term, can help individuals change over to a more efficient system that could help in their monthly costs as well.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister of Finance in regard to the issue I raised about how fuel prices have declined greatly but our communities still pay a very high price. I used the situation in Aklavik, where the fuel increased by 3 cents to $1.76 a litre. To the Minister of Finance: do we have any consumer protection legislation in place that we can bring into force so that we can protect the consumers from these wide fluctuations in fuel prices?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. The honourable Minister of Finance, Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In the small communities POL brings in the fuel. The resupply has been completed. Those costs and prices are set according to what they pay at the time of the resupply. In other communities on the road system that can be resupplied through the free market, there’s no regulatory regime in place to control prices, nor is there any on the books we have that I’m aware of.

Mr. Speaker, as we all know, the prices, especially with fuel commodities and gas, have no problem going up whenever there’s a fuel increase or there’s a hurricane in the Gulf of Mexico, but it seems like they have a real problem bringing down the prices when the price decreases.

Again, I’d like to ask the Minister, since we don’t have that legislation, if that is something the government would consider looking at, knowing that this problem does have implications right across Canada. I think as a territory we’re not exempt from that, especially when we do depend on provinces such as Alberta and elsewhere for our fuel commodities.

I’d like to ask the Minister: is that something this government’s considering in regard to reducing the cost of living and also having a system in place to protect the residents of the Northwest Territories?

The information I’ve seen from other jurisdictions where they’ve attempted to regulate gas prices just shows in the long term that there are no real long term benefits to the residents of that jurisdiction. In many cases it has a counterproductive influence, where if the prices aren’t right or if they’re too low, the folks who supply the fuel will just go to other jurisdictions where they can get a far better price. I don’t think, on the face of it, that we want to be running down the path setting up those kinds of forces in the market system we currently have.

Mr. Speaker, maybe the Minister can tell us exactly what type of authority this government does have, because it doesn’t seem like we are doing anything in this area. Does this government have responsibility in regard to consumer protection by way of a legislative authority?

We have some consumer protection authority in terms of the issue of regulating fuel prices. It’s not an area we are involved in. We do have the ability to set taxes on motive and non-motive fuel, but in terms of issuing instructions to the marketplace and putting in those types of price controls, it’s not an area we are involved in.

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Final supplementary, Mr. Krutko.

Mr. Speaker, again I’d like to ask the Minister if he can seriously take a look into this. I think we as government have the responsibility to protect our consumers from these types of unjust acts by big industry. I think it is an issue right across Canada, an issue in regard to oil companies making $30 billion profit. It seems like the consumer at the end of the day is the one getting the end of the pipe here. I’d just like to ask the Minister: will he seriously take a look at this and bring something back to the Legislative Assembly?

Again, I’d like to tell the Member that in fact the evidence that is there would indicate that this is not a way to productively try to impact the cost of fuel in terms of affordability. The Conference Board of Canada has come to that

conclusion, as have many esteemed economists, that in the long run there are major economic and social/political costs to that type of regime. At this point it’s not an area we have an intention of getting actively involved in.

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. The honourable Member for Kam Lake, Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. My questions today are for the Premier. They get back to my Member’s statement from earlier, where I spoke of the Premiers’ meeting in Montreal that took place yesterday.

As I mentioned, the Northwest Territories has fought long and hard to actually get a seat at the national table with the other Premiers from around the country. I believe it was in 1992 when former Premier Nellie Cournoyea became the first Premier of the Northwest Territories to actually sit with the other Premiers.

I was listening, like many Northerners, to Northbeat last night. The Premier was interviewed on why he chose to stay here in Yellowknife and not attend the meeting that took place in Montreal. The first question I have for the Premier today is: why was he not at this important meeting in Montreal?

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The Hon. Premier, Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I thank the Member for that question. In fact, it gives me an opportunity to speak about the call I made to Premier Charest when the idea of the meeting first came together. I followed up with him yesterday after the meeting again to discuss some of the events that occurred and a direction being set and the call, in agreement with the Prime Minister, to hold a First Ministers’ meeting before Christmas. We’re hoping to get the dates on that soon.

The reason I didn’t make the trip initially…. As I’ve said, I confirmed with Premier Charest that I was hoping to make attendance at that conference depending on, of course, what happens in the House. As we know, in a consensus style of government, the Cabinet’s in a minority situation, and we must always weigh carefully the actions that are happening within the House. At that point, I decided my time would be best served here in our Legislature.

I thank the Premier for that. I’m glad he did get in touch with Premier Charest on the results of that meeting.

Like I said earlier, I think there is a good possibility that if the federal government starts running deficits, they’ll start choosing between deep program cuts and…. I’d hazard a guess that they would also take a look at axing programs. Possibly equalization might be included in that. Again, I want to make sure that the Premier understands the gravity of not being at this meeting.

I want to ask him again: what exactly warranted his presence in the House yesterday so that he couldn’t be in Montreal to discuss these key issues?

Mr. Speaker, I think the Member can answer that question by looking at the Hansard that was taking place, printed in this House, and what was happening. The fact is, in operating as we do, in a consensus style government we have to weigh the options of where we go and the influence we may have at a certain meeting. I kept in touch with the Chair of the Council of the Federation, Premier Charest, and followed up with him and will look to have another meeting with him directly in the weeks coming.

Mr. Speaker, I just want, maybe, to get the Premier to state on record: what exactly is his first priority? Is it the people of the Northwest Territories and the future of the Northwest Territories, or is it his constituents back in Inuvik?

Mr. Speaker, we know that once a Regular Member is elected to Cabinet, their constituents lose a certain amount of representation because of the new role that Ministers, including myself, play in representing the territory. The budget is a territorial document, and this House decides on that.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Final supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My final question. Given the gravity of the situation, the financial meltdown globally and the possibility that the federal government may look at cuts to equalization going forward, I’m wondering: why wouldn’t the Premier come to Members of the House and tell us, “I have to go to this meeting; I have to be at this meeting”? Why wasn’t that quoted to us? Why does the Premier make that decision on his own to stay in the House and not attend this meeting?

Mr. Speaker, in making a decision as to whether to go to any meeting, whether it’s provincial/territorial or FPT, in this situation one weighs all the options and tries to get as much information as possible. I was aware that there is going to be a First Ministers’ meeting with the same subject matter: the economy and the impact it will have on Canada. At that next meeting we will have the Prime Minister there, and that

would lead to a more fulsome discussion about the initiatives that may be taken or may not be taken. That’s what I weighed.

In fact, as well, we had communications go down the hall to let Members know that I was intending to go to that conference. But again, Mr. Speaker, as I said earlier, in weighing the actions that were happening within this Assembly, I had to make a decision as to whether to go or stay, and my decision was to stay.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I talked in my Member’s statement today about a concern about diesel fuel for transportation and the concern that shortage has caused. My question could apply to multiple Ministers, but I think maybe in this particular case I may ask the Premier for his perspective on the situation.

In this situation here we have a possibility of a shortage.... Well, actually, I shouldn’t say possibility. We know there’s a shortage in Western Canada. The question really is: when is this shortage going to creep up into the Northwest Territories?

I’d like to ask the Premier: from his perspective what can the Northwest Territories government, first, be informed about, what do they plan to do about it, and what role can we play in this situation?

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The Hon. Premier, Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We became aware even previously. Last year, for example, there was talk of a shortage across Western Canada. The announcement that the Member is speaking about was refinery issues in Southern Canada.

For our supply here in the North — for example, to our remote communities — that’s resupplied by our Petroleum Products Division. Their fuel is up to max on the diesel side. For example as well, within the Power Corporation, at the Yellowknife facility, we have surplus supply there. We’ve taken the necessary steps and actions to protect ourselves here in the Northwest Territories.

We know, as well, from some of the discussion that last year Inuvik had some problems with resupply and worked that out with the bulk agent there, or Imperial Oil, in fact. I’m informed now that they have a good resupply as well.

Mr. Speaker, I’m pleased to hear that the supply won’t affect the resupply process that happened already this summer. I mean, from a community perspective, knowing that you only get filled up once, maybe even twice a year if you’re lucky, you’re right: it has a significant impact. I’m glad that there’s stability there.

But, Mr. Speaker, there are things like food that have to be delivered to the Northwest Territories through the trucking system. There is home heating fuel that has to be delivered as well — things along those lines. That’s some of the issue that’s being raised here, the concern on the street.

I’m just curious. From the government’s perspective what can the government do to make sure that the food supply keeps moving if there starts to be a shortage that has an impact on that type of delivery?

Mr. Speaker, one of the things we’ve done in looking at the potential shortage is to make sure we’ve got our bases covered for our facilities and assets in communities. We would be prepared to work with the private sector if a scenario were to arise that there needed to be some movement there. Of course, we’d be working with that.

Mr. Speaker, the Member is talking about an “if” scenario, and it’s pretty hard to look at that option. We haven’t been contacted by any of the fuelling operations here — for example, in the capital — about any concerns.

Mr. Speaker, I guess it’s not so much of an “if” scenario as…. I mean, we plan EMOs for exactly these types of operations when something happens. I guess I’m really searching for the answer to how prepared the government is if this problem creeps into the Northwest Territories. Because, I mean, we get our food from places like Edmonton, Calgary and beyond, and that’s a reality if that’s a problem. If they can’t fill up their trucks there to drive north, it affects the reality we live in here.

Mr. Speaker, that’s the type of information I’m trying to get here. I’m not trying to embarrass anybody by any means. I’m just asking: are we prepared for that type of reality if this problem creeps up north, and is there any idea on how we deal with it?

If something were to happen, it may be a reality. The fact is we have looked at our areas where we have direct responsibility. In fact, when there was an issue about some shortages in the higher parts of the territory last year, the Department of Public Works and Services looked at routes Over the Top to look at resupply from other areas to ensure there was no shortage in the Northwest Territories.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. The honourable Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yesterday, I believe it was, in the House — or this week, at least — a couple of documents were tabled with respect to the Ministerial Benefits Policy and also a report respecting benefits to Ministers under that policy for the fiscal year ended March 31. Every term I believe that there is an independent commission struck to look at Members’ remuneration and benefits. I think that this commission allows for a cross-section of input and public participation for those who may wish to comment on Members’ benefits and pay.

The Members of the Executive Council actually are entitled to somewhat different benefits, and I was wondering if the Premier could tell us, please: how are those benefits and policies set? Who gets to vote on that?

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The Hon. Premier, Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Executive Council, as well as the Legislative Assembly Act, covers a number of areas. The Executive piece is following work that was done by previous governments and put into place, in fact, to kick in with this the 16th Legislative Assembly.

The work was done prior to this Assembly. It came into effect, and in fact, this tabling of this information is the first time we are putting it forward for information for the public.

I thought that the Cabinet actually made decisions on policies reflecting Ministers’ benefits. Anyway, moving on from there, I got the answer I thought was going to hear. I still don’t really know what the answer is. I don’t want to waste all four questions on the same topic, so moving on.

The capital living allowance for members of the Executive Council, I have no problem with that. Members are expected to live here on a full time basis, and that certainly requires a certain level of comfort and an amount of space. No problem. Home travel is absolutely reasonable. Members have got to go back to their constituencies when they serve on the Executive Council. But there are a few other benefits in here which I think are a little bit unusual. Cabinet Ministers are allowed to accrue sick leave and vacation leaves. I’d like to ask the Premier: what is the policy of this Executive Council with respect to actually paying people out for those benefits?

Mr. Speaker, we follow the same pattern as employees would have for annual leave, for example. Sick leave, though, is different. You can accrue that, but there is no payout at any time for that piece. Annual leave, there is payout for that, as there has been in previous Assemblies.

Certainly it did exist in previous Assemblies. Just to note the difference, though, Regular Members do not accrue vacation leave, and we certainly don’t get paid out for it at the end of our term, but Cabinet Ministers do.

Mr. Speaker, also under the Ministerial Benefits Policy there is something called an entertainment allowance. It is a non-accountable $1,500 annual allowance for duty related entertainment expenses. I would like to ask the Premier: is that over and above the already existing approximately $1,000 a month that Members receive? So they would get the Members’ $1,000 non-accountable plus the Cabinet Ministers’ $1,500 non-accountable expense for entertainment?

Mr. Speaker, maybe I should take a better look at my Members’ portion of benefits. The ministerial piece is $1,500 for the year, and it covers other expenses that Members who are Ministers would incur in their duties, whether it is in the capital or when they are travelling, to cover off some of the additional costs that one would run across.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Final supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

I was wanting to know if it is over and above what Regular Members receive. I have to assume that it is, that the $1,500 is separate and for ministerial entertainment, as opposed to MLA expenses in that area.

Mr. Speaker, these questions went all too quickly, but do Ministers also have access to the departmental budget, credit cards, allowances for such things as entertainment?

Mr. Speaker, if a Minister — I’ll use ENR as an example — deals with a department issue and has a group of individuals or a conference, the department would pick up those costs on that side of it. The ministerial piece would be if the Minister himself were to meet with Members, for example, or Ministers from other jurisdictions on other related matters. But if a Minister is specifically meeting and that has been set up to deal with the department or deal with counterparts across the country on files within the department, the department would cover those costs.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Bromley.