Again, I just think somebody has some explaining to do. This has been on the books for a while. There is a fire at that school, they’ve got insurance money, and they’ve got $9.2 million approved in prior years. They think they’re going to move forward with renovations at that school. So they go out and do the work, and it comes back. The Minister says it was $22 million; it was much higher than that, Mr. Chairman. So they were under the assumption that they could start the work this year and it would be included this year. So they go back, and they’re trying to do their work to try to arrive at a figure that’s half this much — $41.5 million. They were working on those terms, but within weeks or days, the carpet was pulled out from underneath them, and there’s no money in ’08-‘09 for this school. To me, it all happened just like that.

I’ve known for some time that there is no money in ’08-‘09, but you can’t discuss that — it’s not public. This is the first opportunity that I’ve had to raise this issue, but I’m not too happy with the way that this has worked out. You can’t set somebody up and then yank the carpet out from underneath them, not when it’s a school and it’s a necessary piece of infrastructure. That school is 30 years old, it had a fire, there’s insurance money…. There are a lot of reasons why the renovations there should proceed.

Mr. Chairman, this project has been on the books for some time. Work has been done with the school board along with the department. When the fire happened, there was insurance money, but the Government of the Northwest Territories topped that up significantly to get additional portables put into that facility. By doing that, it has given them more breathing room for the number of students in that facility.

When we looked at our overall capital plan and its existing situation, we had to go back to our departments to request that they review their plans to see what could be deferred or re–cash-flowed in a number of areas. On that basis, the department has done its work and come back, and now you see the plan as it is.

Mr.

Chair, I’d like to echo the

comments of the previous speaker in regard to the École St. Joseph School project. The school is not in my riding, but many students who live in my riding go to that school, which happens to be next door. I do believe that the Catholic School Board

shouldn’t be expected to take the delay in the construction of this particular renovation.

My question for the Minister is: what has been accomplished by the $9.2 million in total or the prior year’s expenditures? Or if that money is sitting as a carryover, will it be available to the school board for them to start some kind of construction or finalized design and move toward awarding a construction contract in this next fiscal year?

Mr.

Chairman, it is my

understanding they will be carrying or requesting a carryover. I’m not sure of the exact amount, but they will be carrying over some of the money they haven’t expended in prior years, and that money will be available to them to continue the work they are involved in at this point. There will be some carryover that can still be used as we proceed with this plan.

Mr. Chair, just a follow-up. How much of that $9.2 million has been expended and is not available? Do we have any idea of the carryover amount that will be available to the board?

Mr. Chairman, they are still using some of those funds, as our year progresses. Until we have the year-end, to look at what the carryover is, we wouldn’t be able to give that detail. We could probably go back to the Department of Education, Culture and Employment to work with the school board to come up with what is remaining, a snapshot of a certain day and point in time. As for the actual amount of carryover, that will have to wait until year-end, when we do our final sup of the year.

Mr. Chair, I move that $80,000 be deleted from the Interim Appropriation Detail booklet amount set out in Schedule 2, Capital Investment Expenditures, item No. 6, Education, Culture and Employment, on page 6, for the project Lahm Ridge Tower renovations.

Motion is being

circulated. Question is being called. Motion is in order. To the motion. Question is being called.

Committee motion carried.

Mr. Bromley.

Mr. Chairman, I noticed we have at least three school boilers being replaced at a cost of $2 million. There’s some energy efficiency in there that’s going to save, hopefully, fuel and greenhouse gas emissions and reduce our operational costs. I’m wondering whether or not

we’ve looked at pellet boilers, given that we’ve got some examples of great savings.

I’d like to point out, in the most recent example, Sir John Franklin High School, right here in Yellowknife, in the most recent contract, they were paying $1.07 a litre. They are now purchasing heat or will shortly be purchasing heat at $0.80 a litre, without any capital costs for that pellet boiler. That is none.

We’re spending $2 million here. I see huge opportunities to pay no dollars on capital. Simply purchase heat at reduced cost and essentially zero emissions. This is the sort of thinking I’m hoping to see here. Once these systems are in place and we’ve spent $2 million on them, we’re stuck with them. Can I be assured that this has happened or that we’ll take full advantage of the window of time left to see if we can’t replace those high-efficiency but conventionally-fuelled boilers with pellet boilers that will eventually, undoubtedly, be fuelled with local biomass providing considerable local employment.

Mr. Chairman, the boilers identified for replacement, as the Member highlighted, are to use a more efficient system. The one fortunate thing to point out is when we can capture the market — that is, take advantage of the lower-cost products as well as companies that are willing to enter into agreements where you can replace the existing unit and just pay the O&M, in a sense — that is a benefit. In a number of areas, we are unable to continue with that type of practice because it’s just not available. As well, I’ve been informed that the cost of the materials — the pellets — to run these units…. The further we get away from the capital, the pricier the product gets. I believe the Minister of Public Works may be able to give some more detail on that.

Mr. Chairman, there are a number of projects underway to replace boilers at different locations throughout the Territories. Most of the boilers are in need of replacement because of their age. The one in Fort Simpson — Deh Cho Hall, scheduled for demolition — was on a steam boiler heating system that was over 50 years old. We will be incorporating a new boiler system into the schools.

Also, Chief Jimmy Bruneau School is in need of another boiler. That is the one community we have targeted to replace the existing boiler with a pellet stove system.

We have been looking to see what we can do at other locations. It becomes very difficult to determine the viability or the economics of what it would take to put in boilers in some of the isolated communities. It doesn’t seem to be feasible, but we are looking at more work in that area.

Of course, we have looked at the other facilities that we can convert to biomass or wood pellet boilers. We’re looking at a DOT maintenance shop in Hay River; we’re looking at the River Ridge Correctional Centre; the Territorial Women’s Correctional Centre in Fort Smith; and the South Mackenzie Correctional Centre in Hay River. Those are the ones that are targeted.

We are meeting and working with the City of Yellowknife to install wood pellet boilers at the Yellowknife pool, the arena, and the curling rink. They are looking at Sir John Franklin High School, to investigate the possibility of doing that.

Mr. Chairman, that is excellent news about Behchoko and Chief Jimmy Bruneau. It will be great for our youth to be exposed to this. I really hope that we can put some extra effort into establishing these in the regional centres, at least.

I’d like to point out that both Fort Simpson and Behchoko are closer than Yellowknife to the source of the pellets. And in fact, Fort Simpson is closer to a high-Btu pellet and, in fact, considerably cheaper than Yellowknife pays. But I’ll take those comments, and thank you very much again just highlighting the need to be really progressive there for big savings. Thank you.

Mr. Chairman, with respect to the boiler systems, in Fort Simpson there’s been some debate and discussion over the last couple of years about the fate of Deh Cho Hall, et cetera. But now what we’re actually talking about, with two new boilers, we’re talking about the fate of our central heating system.

It’s been my contention in terms of reducing emissions and saving our environment…. Europe has been using central heating systems for decades now. For the most part, when we installed that in Fort Simpson and several other communities, the cost savings are there, the efficiencies are there, and that’s something our government should explore more.

I would go one further and ask the government to examine keeping the central heating system in Fort Simpson or replacing or refurbishing it. The existing system is 50 years old and must be replaced, but it’s far better that we look at alternatives and create a new central heating system that would serve the needs of the two schools and any other new buildings that are going up there.

I don’t know if the government has looked at that. I don’t know if the Premier can answer that, or perhaps the Minister of Public Works can answer the assessment of a central heating system. It really makes sense, especially in this day and age.

With respect to the boiler system, I know they’re going in there. Having a look at an ultimately a

more efficient boiler system is, of course, something that this side of the House has been urging government to do. Assessments are currently going on to install a new boiler system into the new unit.

Mr. Chairman, again, the Minister of Public Works and Services probably has more detail on this project.

Mr. Chairman, the central heating plant in Simpson has been there for quite a long time and it heated four facilities: the recreation complex, the Thomas Simpson Secondary School, the Bompas Elementary School and the Deh Cho Hall. It has been studied on a number of occasions for economic viability. However, no decisions have been made on it. The situation that we are in now, to remove the Deh Cho Hall from the system…. This will change the dynamics of it and sort of make it something to require us to conduct another review to make the appropriate decisions.

Last year in March we hired an engineering firm to look at the alternatives for upgrading or replacing the central heating system from the present options. Last July we got a report, and the report recommends that we change the steam boilers for the new hydraulic boilers with the associated infrastructure. This option will provide the lowest life-cycle cost. It is the best option with most flexibility for future changes to alternate fuel sources, such as wood pellet technology. So that is the rush now and the reason we are going with this new system.

Mr. Chairman, I would like to move a motion that we report progress.

Motion carried.

Thank you, Ministers and witnesses.

Can I have the report of the Committee of the Whole, please, Mr. Krutko.

Mr. Speaker, the committee has been considering Bill 1, Interim Appropriation Act, 2008-2009, and would like to report progress with two motions being adopted.

I move that the report of the Committee of the Whole be concurred with.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Motion is on the floor. Do we have a seconder? The honourable Member from Nunakput, Mr. Jacobson.

Motion carried.

Item 22, third reading of bills. Madam Clerk, item 23, Orders of the Day.