Welcome back to the House.

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order.

Mr. Miltenberger is rising for a point of order. What is your point of order, Mr. Miltenberger?

Mr. Speaker, I want to cite our rules, under 23(k), “uses abusive or insulting language of a nature likely to create a disorder” and (m), “introduces any matter in debate that offends the practices and precedents of this Assembly.”

Mr. Speaker, this is my first opportunity after the debate in the House yesterday to review Hansard, in specific, Mr. Hawkins’s Member’s statement and the subsequent question, the entire tone of which, I

believe, contravenes those two clauses that

I mentioned.

Specifically, on page 7 of unedited Hansard, Mr. Hawkins, in speaking about his concerns about the college programs in Fort Smith, says, and I quote: “How can we expect people to attend these courses and gain qualifications when they’re not welcome in this community?”

Mr. Speaker, the use of sweeping generalizations — inaccurate sweeping generalizations — I think, are contravening the intent of these two clauses. I’d further like to quote page 29 of unedited Hansard. Mr. Hawkins says: “I think that if students feel intimidated throughout the community, the community doesn’t want them.” He further goes on to say: “As I said earlier today — and I’ll reference again that people don’t want to go there….”

Mr. Speaker, the Member has specific concerns, which is fair enough, but to denigrate and condemn the whole community as a result of some isolated incidents when there have been thousands of graduates, I think, is contrary to what’s intended.

Finally, I’d like to reference the fact that he named a person in this House as the president of the college who is not here to defend himself, nor are the people of Fort Smith. So I rise to defend the practice of not naming people.

And he goes on, on page 28, to say: “I mean, why doesn’t he say to me that the president is reviewing the effectiveness of the campus in Fort Smith — by the way, where he lives and runs the program. Wow, I’m sure that will be independent.” This brings into question the integrity and ability of the president of the college, once again in a forum where he’s not here to defend himself.

So on those points, those are my points of order. I would look forward to your ruling.

Mr. Miltenberger has risen on a point of order under rule 23(k) and (m). To the point of order, I’ll allow some debate. To the point of order, Mr. Hawkins.

Mr. Speaker, first of all, I’ll thank the Member from Thebacha for bringing forward the concern. If he felt there was an issue, I appreciate him bringing it and highlighting it as an issue.

Mr. Speaker, before I begin, I have to cite a book called Beauchesne’s, which this Assembly is very familiar with. It talks about tone and intent. I’m bringing forward the tone and intent and concerns of my constituents who sent family members to that community.

Mr. Speaker, on page 28 of yesterday’s Hansard I explicitly qualified my comments by stating that there was no mal-intention intended with respect to my remarks that called into question the independence of an internal conduct review. I was stating and simply seeking an independent examination.

Furthermore, I questioned that the independence of a review conducted internally by a senior member

embedded within an organization can hardly be called independent or showing objectivity. One with a vested interest in a program or review hardly seems fair.

Mr. Speaker, I did not specifically name that person — I named the position that they represent all along. This is something we witness time and time again when a Crown corporation and other departments are placed under scrutiny of independent lenses. This ensures confidence in the outcomes of public and elected officials to determine a course of action with an independent review.

Finally, Mr. Speaker, I further comment that the Member’s point of view was not raised in a timely fashion — from my point of view, given his presence in this House — because he is a very capable Minister and a Member with long-standing presence. I would assert that, on page 97 of Beauchesne’s, attention must be directed to a breach of order at the proper moment — namely, the moment it occurred.

Mr.

Speaker, I will recognize officially that the

Member may have had some concern with the tone. It is a tone, and I will pass on an apology for the tone. However, I was bringing concerns directly brought forward by my constituents — a number of constituents, Mr. Speaker. I will close with that at this time.

Am I to take it from that that you’re withdrawing your remarks from yesterday?

I would like to see the ruling first, Mr. Speaker, if that’s in order in this particular case.

To the point of order. Seeing no more proponents on the point of order, I will take it under advisement and come back with a ruling at a later date.

Item 2, Ministers’ statements. Mr. Bob McLeod.

In March 2007 the 15th Legislative Assembly released the Northwest Territories Energy Plan and Greenhouse Gas Strategy, outlining a comprehensive approach to addressing the many and varying energy challenges that we face in our communities.

The Energy Plan introduced a wide range of tools and incentives to assist N.W.T. residents and communities in reducing their energy use. It specified investments to advance the use of alternative and renewable energy sources and to

find ways to apply emerging technologies in our harsh environment. Members of the 16th Assembly

have reiterated many of these goals and strategic priorities.

Mr. Speaker, in an effort to ensure that energy initiatives are coordinated and fully aligned with government priorities, cabinet has authorized the establishment of the Ministers’ energy coordinating committee.

This committee, which I chair, includes my colleagues Minister Miltenberger and Minister Yakeleya. It will provide an important forum for dialogue and an avenue through which we can be responsive and accountable to both the Members of the 16th Assembly and the people we represent.

One of the first priorities of this committee will be to consider the regulatory and administrative systems related to the provision of electricity in the Northwest Territories. The N.W.T. Energy Plan is built on the principle that reliable and affordable energy should be available in all N.W.T. communities.

In the coming months we will be engaging Members of this Assembly, N.W.T. residents and businesses in a review of electricity rates, regulations and subsidy programs in the Northwest Territories to ensure that our electricity system supports this principle.

Mr. Speaker, we have a tremendous supply of energy resources, yet the cost of energy in our communities remains expensive and a significant contributor to our high cost of living. We need to make long-term investments that will result in sustainable energy solutions. This includes a greater use of clean and renewable energy, focused efforts in energy conservation and efficiency, and an electricity system that supports our priorities. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

As the city of Yellowknife and the N.W.T. prepare for the more than 1,800 athletes, coaches and visitors who will be coming to Yellowknife for the Arctic Winter Games, more than 200 health care professionals are being organized to staff the Arctic Winter Games Clinic.

Registered nurses, nurse practitioners, licensed practical nurses, doctors, massage therapists and physiotherapists will provide their services at the clinic each day from 7 a.m. to 11 p.m. The clinic will be located at the Multiplex in Yellowknife. Each sport’s venue will have a radio dispatcher who will be in contact with a central dispatcher. They will be able to communicate with each other about an injury and dispatch an ambulance, if necessary.

I would like to thank the team leader, Dr. Ewan Affleck, at the Yellowknife Health and Social Services Authority for volunteering to organize the clinic. I would also like to take this opportunity to thank in advance all the health care professionals who will take time out from their busy schedules to make sure that these important services are made available. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 3, Members’ statements, Mr. Beaulieu.

Mr. Speaker, today I’d like to talk about one of the many jewels of the Northwest Territories, the East Arm of the Great Slave Lake and, more specifically, the proposal to make this amazing area Canada’s newest national park.

In 1970, under the legacy of former Prime Minister Pierre Elliott Trudeau, an area of almost 7,500 square kilometres of the East Arm was set aside for national park purposes. Unfortunately, over the course of the next few decades, the lack of progress in settling aboriginal land claims; resources and governance issues; and periodic government cutbacks stalled the drive for establishing an East Arm national park.

Mr.

Speaker, with the prospect of hydroelectric

impacts, diamond mining, and uranium exploration, the proposal for protecting the East Arm as a national park was once again put back on track, along with other Territorial conservation projects.

Mr.

Speaker, in 2005 the Lutselk'e Dene First

Nation outlined what they called Thaidene Nene

, a

portion of their traditional territory they wanted to see protected. This prompted Parks Canada to reassess the original 1970 boundaries. As a result, Parks Canada has now identified a total surface area of almost 34,000 square kilometres for the national park objectives.

In October 2006 a memorandum of understanding was signed by Lutselk’e Dene First Nation and the federal Environment Minister, providing a framework for a feasibility study for this new expanded area.

In November of last year the federal government officially announced an interim land withdrawal to protect more than 26,000 square kilometres around the East Arm.

Mr. Speaker, the East Arm area is an amazing geological wonder. In Christie Bay you can find the deepest spot in North America — over 2,000 feet deep. You can place the world’s highest tower in

Christie Bay, and it’d still be underwater by 200 feet. The spectacular Red Cliffe Island has sheer cliffs that are over 1,000 feet straight up into the deep water that is the home of a world-class lake trout habitat. There are stories of a trout over 100 pounds caught in the nets in the Great Slave Lake.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to finish my statement.

Unanimous consent granted.

Mr.

Speaker, today I wish to

acknowledge the efforts of the Lutselk’e Dene band and the Akaitcho Territory government in their steadfast commitment to the protection of this important traditional land, as well as Parks Canada for recognizing the need to protect this spectacular area.

Mr. Speaker, I have just received a press release regarding the successful completion of fundraising by our N.W.T. Host Society for the Arctic Winter Games 2008.

This was no mean feat. Initially estimated at $2.6 million, the target was soon reviewed more realistically and re-established at $3.6 million. In the final outcome, including cash and gifts in kind and with a few surprise costs, a little over $4 million has been raised.

As an example of the cost surprises encountered, school washrooms were found unable to handle the shower requirements of 2,000 in-school residents. ATCO then stepped up and provided trailer facilities and RCL trucked them in with a combined gift-in-kind value of nearly $500,000.

Over the two years of fundraising, support was given by over 200 sponsors. As Mr. Gilday, the fundraiser, noted, this was one heck of a business-community collective effort. All kudos to Northern business.

Specialty contract services related to the mining industry but based elsewhere were also approached for support. They provided generous and enthusiastic support for a circumpolar youth event. The business community of the Northwest Territories, and even some of those in Nunavut, helped ensure that the host society has the financial resources to stage a tremendous event that has inspired many circumpolar youth.

A quotation from Dave Tuccarro, a successful Metis businessman out of Fort McMurray and a former participant in the Games — published in the Games publication Inspired by Dreams: 20 Arctic Winter

Games — speaks volumes about the value of the Arctic Winter Games. He says:

“Just to make the team, I had to develop determination, dedication and focus. These are core values you need as an adult to be successful. The Games have potential to do that for a lot of kids.”

The host society expressed their thanks to all who have supported the Games. Check out the sponsorship list on the Games’ website at www.awg2008.ca.

Mr. Speaker, I am sure I am joined by the Director of Care and Comfort for the Games, our own Ms.

Bisaro, and the whole Assembly in

congratulating the N.W.T. Host Society and particularly the incredible Director of Fundraising, Mr. David Gilday, for their successful effort.

As mentioned yesterday, this is Education Week. We have over 800 teachers in our 33 communities, capably represented by the NWTTA, the N.W.T. Teachers’ Association.

But in all of our communities, teachers and their boards face obstacles. Public education should be fair and equitable for all students, yet our schools are not fully funded and must use school fees, fundraising efforts and corporate donations to finance some of their programs. Somehow we must find the dollars to completely fund all of our school programs and ensure equal opportunities for students, no matter where they live or their financial situation. It is imperative that education programs retain their current funding levels in the face of impending budget reductions.

Housing for teachers in our communities is an ongoing issue. To quote the NWTTA, it must be “available, adequate and affordable.” Yet teachers consistently face housing shortages, unsafe living conditions and exorbitant rents. We want to attract and retain quality teachers to N.W.T. schools. How can that happen if housing conditions are deplorable?

This same problem often exists for other professionals in our communities. The government must consider building a fourplex housing unit in communities where housing is scarce and use it to provide accommodations for all the community’s professionals.

As well, teachers daily face violence in the classrooms and schools. No one should have to deal with violence in their workplace. We must find a solution for this situation.

There have been some inroads in some schools. The restitution program at École J.H. Sissons School is an excellent example of the successful changing of students’ behaviours.

Not surprisingly, there’s a high turnover rate amongst N.W.T. teachers. The number of qualified applicants for Northern teaching posts gets smaller every year. It’s been proven that students perform better with consistent, strong teaching over a number of years. The retention of teachers improves students’ success.

Lastly, teachers and schools lack sufficient student support resources. We need to provide access to educational psychologists, speech therapists, audiologists, counsellors, nurses and RCMP for all students — and that certainly does not exist in all of our communities.

So, this week, hug a teacher or find some other way to let them know how much you appreciate their work. And to all teachers I say, “Thank you for making a difference.”

Mr.

Speaker, it gives me great

pleasure to announce here in the House that I have some 32 athletes who will be taking part in the Arctic Winter Games, 12 of whom are coming from Iqaluit and 20 from Fort McPherson. Who says small communities can’t compete in the Arctic Winter Games?

Applause.

In the area of youth, there have been Jennifer Greenland and Bobbi Rose Koe participating in the Youth Ambassador program. Liz Wright will be coaching the male snowshoe team, Joanne Tetlichi will be coaching the female snowshoe team, and Wayne Greenland will be chaperoning the snowshoers. The snowshoe team consists of Aryn Charlie, David Kaye, Ashtyn McLeod, Janelle Wilson, Jeanetta Prodromid, Merle Robert and Rick Charlie.

Also, Mr. Speaker, Fort McPherson has its own family cross-country ski team, with Lynn Hanthorn and her children Sarah, Joel, Ruth and Anna, which makes up the Fort McPherson cross-country ski team. P.J. Roberts of Fort McPherson is in the Dene Games, along with Shayla Snowshoe of Fort McPherson. Stephanie Ross of Fort McPherson made the N.W.T. female hockey team again, which was an achievement in itself. Lorna Storr will be taking part in the Dene Games along with Crystal Koe, Karlyn McLeod and Joel Gordon.

Also, Iqaluit drummers will be taking part in the cultural event: Jordan McLeod, Alex Gordon,

Johnny Semple, Shayla Arey, Katelyn Storr, Julie Elanik, Mary Ruth Meyook and also Manny Arey.

So, Mr. Speaker, again, it gives me great pride to have the opportunity to announce these names in this House. “Go, team, go!” at the Arctic Winter Games. Thank you.

Yesterday the Member from Inuvik Twin Lakes raised concerns in a Member’s statement about the Affirmative Action Program and the inability of local people to get jobs with the G.N.W.T. — jobs which, with minimal training, they would be able to do regardless of the perceived educational requirements that they as individuals may not meet.

Currently, the G.N.W.T. spends a lot of money flying highly educated southerners into communities. Most of these individuals have little to no experience in small communities. Often they only stay for a year or two before returning south. It’s a revolving door. This is expensive.

Is this the best use of our limited funds? Would it not be more effective and better use of our funds to invest in the people of the North? Would it not be better to train people from the community to do the work required in those communities?

Prior to the major cost cuts and job cuts of 1996, the G.N.W.T. delivered a program called the Public Service Career Training Program. It was a competency-based, on-the-job training program focused on training indigenous aboriginal people to help them obtain managerial and officer-level jobs. It gave these individuals an opportunity to train for positions which they had skills to do but lacked either the education or the experience to get through the normal competition process.

This program had an 84 per cent success rate and graduated between 25 and 30 indigenous aboriginal people into meaningful officer and managerial level positions per year. Upon completion of their training, they had the required knowledge, skills and abilities to completely and confidently perform the duties of the jobs they were trained to take on.

It was a very successful program, and as the G.N.W.T., we should have been proud of it. Instead, as part of the reduction exercises in 1996, the G.N.W.T. cut the budget in half, eliminated all the support positions related to the program, and devolved the responsibility for the delivery to the regions without providing the positions required to support the program. As a result, it became completely ineffective and died. Today it does not exist in any capacity.

Now we have no comprehensive training programs to assist indigenous aboriginal people in obtaining meaningful employment through comprehensive training on the job. This is a shame.

Over the last couple of weeks we have heard about budget cuts and reinvestments. We have heard about maximizing Northern employment. At the appropriate time I'll be asking the Minister Responsible for Human Resources questions concerning these reinvestments in training for people of the North.

Mr.

Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to

conclude my statement.

Unanimous consent granted.

I'd like to see a commitment from this government to invest in Northerners in a meaningful way. I'd like to see the reinstatement of the Public Service Career Training Program, based on its original design.

I would like to see people with skills and abilities from the communities offered an opportunity to develop the knowledge, skills and abilities to do the jobs which, with minimal training, they would be able to do.

I would like to stop the revolving door of highly educated southerners coming to communities for short periods of time.

I would like to build a strong public service with dedicated Northerners. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, three years ago the 15th Legislative Assembly consolidated Human

Resources into a centralized delivery model.

As Members know, there were, and still are, a great deal of growing pains as the government shifts its Human Resources processes to this model. Former employees, when trying to retire, were waiting months and sometimes more than a year to receive their documentation from HR. There were, and continue to be, problems with PeopleSoft, and a well-known breach happened last year. As well, there is an inherited backlog that still exists in the department today.

The department spent over $500,000 on the Hackett Report, which was to address business processes inside the department. Here we are, almost two years later, and I’m still left wondering what difference that report has made.

I’m still receiving calls from individuals who feel this department is not functioning the way it should. I have spoken to a wide array of individuals, from clerks to senior staff, and they all seem to be saying the same thing — that the department is being run with a management style of fear and intimidation.

I've become aware that staff must give their computer passwords to management, and over the weekend, their offices are searched for files. The searchers catalogue which files are in which offices, and on Monday the employees are questioned about what files they have in their offices.

To me, this seems to be a very excessive and heavy-handed approach. Staff should not live in constant fear of losing their jobs.

This is our Human Resources department, the department which should be setting the standard for how to treat employees and should not be a dictatorship where staff are always fearing reprisal for speaking out.

Mr. Speaker, many outstanding employees have left Human Resources over the past 18 months because of the management style that exists there. The last Premier and Minister of Human Resources did not seem to want to address the issues that the staff were raising within the Department of Human Resources.

Now we have a new Premier, a new Minister, but the same issues are still there. What will it take for someone over there to do something? We can’t continue to ignore what is happening. The staff that are there need and deserve our help.

I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

Unanimous consent granted.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It would seem absurd to ask Human Resources to conduct a human resources review of its own department, but that is the reality, and that’s what I’ll be asking for today.

Mr. Speaker, in 2010 the eyes of the world will be on Vancouver for the Winter Olympics, and I see this as an excellent opportunity to share with the world what the N.W.T. has to offer. The N.W.T. has much to offer. They can come and see our land and meet our people. We have a lot of visitors coming now to see the aurora borealis, the northern lights, and this can add to that. They can drive our highways, including the beautiful drive on the Dempster. Hopefully, they’ll still have nice things to say after their trip. They can come and

meet our people and share their stories and share in our culture. This would benefit, I think, the tourism industry and residents up and down the valley.

We had a presence at the Canada Winter Games held in Whitehorse, and we had the ads on TV. My understanding was that they had a positive impact on visitors to the Northwest Territories. I see this as an opportunity to be in Vancouver to promote what the N.W.T. has to offer, because we do have a lot to offer the world. I’m not talking about big, fancy pavilions and millions of dollars spent but a good practical investment, a good practical presence in Vancouver. If that draws more people to the Northwest Territories to come see what we have to offer, then I would consider that money well spent, Mr. Speaker.

At the appropriate time I will have questions for the Minister of ITI. Thank you.

Mahsi, Mr.

Speaker. [English

translation not provided.]

Last week the Australian Prime Minister, Kevin Rudd, issued an unprecedented apology to the aboriginal people of his country. He apologized for the century of laws and policies that removed aboriginal children from their families and forced them into institutions far from their homes. These policies caused incredible suffering to thousands of aboriginal people, and they welcomed the apology as an important step in that nation’s history.

Mr. Speaker, aboriginal Canadians were victims of the same type of discriminatory assimilation policies. While Canada has moved forward in important ways with compensation payments to aboriginal Canadians, money alone cannot undo the pain and suffering our people have felt through the residential schools experience. For some of my constituents the payments have reawakened painful memories and act as a cruel reminder of that time.

Mr. Speaker, what aboriginal people in this country are looking for is a sincere and full apology by the Government of Canada for the abuse that so many people experienced in these residential schools. While compensation is important, an apology begins the process of forgiveness and reconciliation. An apology is the foundation to healing. It acknowledges full responsibility for harm done. It shows understanding of the impact of that harm on those who have been hurt. It also makes a commitment to never let it happen again.

Prime Minister Harper has launched a truth and reconciliation commission into the residential

schools. This process will provide an opportunity for all Canadians to learn from this sad chapter in Canadian history. This chapter of our history is not widely known, and the legacy it has left is not fully understood. We need to ensure that the stories and experiences of residential school survivors remain in the conscious memory of all Canadians and are fully documented in our history books. If we as a country understand this history, then we can learn from it and build….

Mr.

Menicoche, your time for a

Member’s statement has expired.

Yes, Mr.

Speaker. I seek

unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

Unanimous consent granted.

Thank you very much,

Mr. Speaker and colleagues.

If we as a country understand this history, then we can learn from it and build a better future for our children and grandchildren.

Mr. Speaker, the Government of Canada needs to lead the way in reconciliation and make a full and sincere apology to all aboriginal people as soon as possible. I ask that our government request that Canada make a formal apology as soon as possible as an important step in rebuilding this country’s relationship with aboriginal people. Mahsi cho.

Mr. Speaker, this has been a time when we’ve been hearing a lot about cuts to government spending. There is a very significant piece of Territorial infrastructure out there that has been talked about, and there have been some very large dollars attached to the anticipation of such a structure. I’m talking about a courthouse here in Yellowknife.

Mr.

Speaker, many long-time residents of the

N.W.T. remember the days when the courthouse in Yellowknife was located on the second floor of the Federal Building, better known as the post office, so at one point the federal government did pay for and provide space for courts in Yellowknife. The federal government also maintains the right to appoint judges to the Supreme Court and the N.W.T. Court of Appeal. In addition, the federal Department of Justice also maintains responsibility for Crown prosecutors. So regardless of the fact that the Government of Canada has devolved responsibility for corrections and Territorial courts, they still have a fundamental role in the administration of justice in the Northwest Territories.

Mr. Speaker, I’m also aware that the Government of Canada paid for a courthouse in the Yukon in the 1980s and, I would guess, probably contributed to the construction of many of the provincial Supreme Court buildings that were built in Western Canada at the turn of the century on one of the previous major divisions of the Northwest Territories.

I do not dispute the need for a new Territorial court building, and I would like to see it built in Hay River, of course, but recognize that it is somewhat traditional for the highest court to be in the capital of the particular province or territory. I also recognize, Mr.

Speaker, the importance of ensuring the

impartiality of the judiciary and recognizing it as the third branch of government. I have also seen the very impressive architectural detail that has gone into provincial Supreme Court buildings across Canada and do not dispute that it should be a landmark building.

What I do object to, Mr. Speaker, is the amount of money that we would have to spend to accomplish the construction of a suitable legacy courthouse. As a legislator I cannot possibly support such a project when things like the high school and the hospital in my riding are in need of serious renovation and replacement. There are so many other capital projects that should be high on our priority list in the communities.

It is time, Mr. Speaker, to have the Government of Canada get involved and give us the same consideration that many other jurisdictions have received and either build the project on our behalf or provide us with the suitable funding to offset the cost of a new courthouse in Yellowknife. Thank you.

Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery, Mr. Yakeleya.

Mr. Speaker, I’d like to recognize a founding member of the N.W.T. Seniors’ Society, Mrs. Esther Braden, and also the executive director of the Seniors’ Society, Ms. Barb Hood. I want to thank them for their ongoing hard work on behalf of all seniors in the Northwest Territories.

Item 6, acknowledgements. Item 7, oral questions.

Mr. Speaker, my questions today are for the Minister of Human Resources. I’ve been a Member of the House for over four years, and early on in the life of the 15th Legislative Assembly one of

the first things I took on was the staff concerns at North Slave Correctional Centre. I stood up here in the House day in and day out and told the Minister what was going on at North Slave Correctional Centre. He was adamant that nothing was going on at North Slave Correctional Centre, and we all know what happened after HR went in there and did a thorough analysis of what was happening: there were 68 recommendations that came down for areas of improvement.

I’m hearing those same types of concerns — and I’m not the only Member hearing the concerns — from staff at HR. Other Members are hearing them as well.

I’d like to begin by asking the Minister of Human Resources if he could look at having a way to go in there and talk to the employees in the department to find out what’s really going on there, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, talking to staff on a regular basis is something that I try to do regularly, and I will continue to do so. Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, the problem with that, I believe, is that staff at Human Resources are afraid to speak out. They need an avenue where they can feel they have some protection so that there are not reprisals against them, that they won’t lose their job. That’s the state of affairs there at Human Resources.

I’d like to ask the Minister: is it government policy that employees leave passwords for their computers with management, Mr. Speaker? Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, all government employees and the computers that they use are the Government of the Northwest Territories’ assets, so it’s important for the government to know what the passwords are. The Department of HR is a department that’s different than other departments, because we deal with processing pay and leave and pension records for all employees. So it’s important for us to be able to access the records of all employees on a regular basis. We need to know where the information is; we need the most up-to-date information.

If an HR employee is not there and we get a complaint from an MLA about one of their

constituents, we are expected to respond on an immediate basis and rectify the problem. So we’re focusing on results, and we need to be able to access records of employees so that we can ensure that they’re paid on time and that their leave is processed. Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, I made mention in my Member’s statement of offices being searched on the weekend for files. I wonder if this is common practice across the government. When employees go home on Friday afternoon in other departments, are they expected to have their offices searched on the weekend and then have to account for what’s in their office or not in their office on Monday morning? Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, in his Member’s statement the Member talked about a backlog of pay that hadn’t been processed that the Department of HR inherited through consolidation, which was inherited from the different departments. We are still in the process of eliminating that backlog, and I’m very pleased to say that we’re making substantial progress. We have a backlog team. We’re processing about a hundred final pay items on a weekly basis. We’ve reduced our backlog by close to 50 per cent. In order to do that, we have to be able to find files. Some files go back quite a number of years. So I wouldn’t call it searching an employee’s office. We’re not searching for any personal information of employees. What we need is the files that we need to get rid of the backlog that we have. Thank you.

Final supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

It sounds like the Minister is aware of the practice that is currently at play at Human Resources and he condones that.

I’d like to ask the Minister if he could commit to an outside review — a staffing review — of HR so that we can get an outside expert in there to talk to the staff that are at HR, so that they could let us know in a more formalized manner exactly what is happening there.

The previous government spent a lot of money on a review, which is less than two years old. Right now we’re focusing on results, on making sure people are paid on time and reducing our backlog. Once we’ve done that, I’d be pleased to do a review.

I’d like to follow up on my Member’s statement and ask the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment a couple of questions relative to some of the problems that teachers experience on a daily basis. I would like to ask the

Minister what the department does currently to provide housing for teachers in smaller communities.

Housing is a Northwest Territories issue. It’s a real challenge to deal with housing, especially in isolated communities. But we as a department are working with the LHOs in the communities, as well as the development corporations, to identify what is suitable in the communities. If there is any housing available, then we pass on the information to potential teachers that are coming in from outside and teachers from within the Northwest Territories.

I’m very glad to hear that the department is working on trying to find housing for teachers. There is a concern, as well, about the housing that exists in communities and that the housing that teachers are given…. There may be housing available, but it’s not very satisfactory housing. I’d like to know if the department is doing anything to try and upgrade those houses so that the living conditions for teachers are what they should be.

We as a government do not get involved with staff housing. We do what we can as a department to work with the development corporations at the community level and also the bands in the community — municipalities, if that’s the case — to have suitable housing or a unit in the community for professional staff that are coming in. That’s what we do as a department. We work with the Housing Corporation and other departments to identify those needs at the community level.

That’s not exactly the answer I was looking for, but I understand the situation. I would urge the department to work with their district education authorities to do more to bring housing in line with the conditions that most of us expect.

I’d like to ask whether or not the department has a zero-tolerance policy that addresses violence towards teachers in school.

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. That’s sort of going to a different line of questioning, but I’ll allow the Minister to comment.

Yes, our department will continue to work closely with the communities. Specifically dealing with the housing issues, we have to continue hiring teachers in the communities, and we will continue working with the communities on that issue.

Based on the MLA strategic plan that we put together earlier in the year, the government’s response is to develop some

committees and have those committees go out and work on some strategic initiatives. One of those committees is refocusing government, and the role, at least as far as I understand, is to identify avenues for improving the public service and deciding how we can do business more effectively. To me that means or suggests that they’re going to be responsible for putting in initiatives related to training and development.

What types of initiatives and/or programs is the Minister intending to put in place that would help bring, into government jobs, people in communities who may lack education but who have skills and qualifications that might be related to the positions they’re applying on?

The Government of the Northwest Territories currently has a number of programs that we’re using for bringing people into the public service. We have the Management Assignment Program, we have the summer student program, and we have an internship program. We’re relying on the N.W.T. Apprenticeship Program and the education system and adult education to bring more people into the workforce.

The Management Assignment Program is for employees who are already in the G.N.W.T. public service. The intern program, although it’s a very good program and does have a significant amount of value, does actually focus mostly on Yellowknife, as most of the people want to come back to Yellowknife. I’m more interested in a program such as the PSCTP, when it did exist prior to the cuts in ’96, that gave people from the smaller communities and the regional centres an opportunity to get into the public service — where they didn’t have the education necessarily to allow them to be screened into competitions, but they could demonstrate skills and abilities in other ways that, with minimal training, they would be able to take on more advanced roles such as officer-level jobs or management jobs.

To the Minister specifically: can I get the Minister to commit to reviewing a program like the Public Service Career Training Program with the intent of implementing something that would benefit those potential employees who are not already working for the G.N.W.T. public service — those individuals from the communities who will work up and stay in the communities once they complete their training?

I am familiar with the on-the-job training program that the Member is referring to. I’m also familiar with the on-the-job training program that the federal Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development had back in the ‘80s and early ‘90s. Both programs were very successful in getting people to work for the government at the community level. As the Member correctly stated, in most cases these types of

training programs usually fall prey to budget cuts. But this would be something we’d be prepared to look at as part of our strategic planning.

Specifically related to the Public Service Career Training Program, it was never cut completely. In fact, after the budget cut there was still a significant amount of money left that was sent out to the regions specifically; it was going to be delivered at a regional level. Since then the program has just faded from the books.

I’m curious if the Minister could tell me where those dollars have gone. Can those dollars be re-profiled back into re-establishing the Public Service Career Training Program in the interest of residents of the Northwest Territories in smaller communities with the desire to get into the public service?

If I recall correctly where the money went, it eventually went into the regional departmental budgets, because the expectation was that training would be paid for as part of the normal course of doing business. So that’s where it went. I don’t think it’s an area where we can go back and track exactly where it went, to dig it back out and resurrect it. It would have to be looked at as part of the overall budget planning, strategic planning process.

My question is for the Minister of Education, Mr. Lafferty. It’s in regard to the area of staff housing. I know that Ms. Bisaro’s question is looking more in line with how we deliver the program. I’d just like to ask the Minister…. I know he mentioned last week that he is working on a pilot project in regard to providing staff housing. Mr. Speaker, we already have a policy in place developed by way of the previous government for market housing in communities. I’d just like to ask the Minister: why is he not using that initiative, instead of making decisions to go with a pilot project?

Mahsi, Mr.

Speaker.

I appreciate the Member’s asking that question. I did mention last week that our department is working with the Housing Corporation on a pilot project in one of the regions. If it’s successful, then we will continue working with other regions on the project itself. We are going with this as a third party, because we don’t get involved with staff housing. But we do what we can to work with the communities to find suitable, affordable housing in the communities.

Again, Mr. Speaker, I ask: what is the reason behind having to do a pilot project? A lot of the government staff housing was sold off to a lot of

development corporations. They purchased these assets strictly for staff, by way of teachers and that, in our communities. But yet the possibility of doing that is already in place.

I’d just like to ask the Minister: why aren’t you following existing programs and services to do exactly what you’re saying you’re going to do, without having to do a pilot project?

Mr. Speaker, that is what we’re doing with the communities. We are having the Housing Corporation assist with the development corporations to build units in the communities. With us, there are no ties, as we are the third party. We are assisting the communities in pursuing the building of these units for professionals in the communities, specifically for teachers, social workers and nurses in the communities as well. That’s what we’re doing as a department — our department, working with another department — to identify a solution in a community.

Mr. Speaker, this issue is not just familiar to one particular region, one particular community; this is a problem right across the Northwest Territories. Communities are trying to address this problem. They have, in most cases, put their own money into putting this infrastructure on the ground. To be fair to all communities on this issue, I’m not waiting ‘til a pilot project is assessed or done or completed.

Could the Minister commit to working with other development corporations throughout the Northwest Territories to improve the existing staff housing stock, and also to deliver more housing stock on the ground? They are already in place; they are already looking at doing it. It just needs some assistance from this government to be able to deliver on market housing in our non-market communities, by way of staff housing.

Mr. Speaker, the question is more coming down to the Housing Corporation, but we as a department will continue working with that issue. Yes, certainly, I’d like to reiterate I’ll be working with my colleague in the Housing Corporation and other Members. We are open for business, as well.

What we’re doing as a pilot project…. There’s one pilot project that’s on the way, and if another region wants to continue with that pilot project, then certainly we can sit down and discuss that as well. We’re open to that concept, and I’d like to move forward on that. That’s what we’re pursuing right now. Mahsi.

Final supplementary, Mr. Krutko.

Mr. Speaker, in regard to the quality and the condition of these units, as I say, most of

them were purchased from the government when they sold off our staff housing. Again, a lot of these units are aging over time, and I think we do have to bring them up to a certain rating. I’d like to ask the Minister, working with his colleague at the Ministry of Housing, if they can look at implementing a program to assist those communities and developers to upgrade those facilities and also expand them, so we can allow for more teachers and more resource people to be able to take advantage of these market housing initiatives in our communities.

Mahsi. Mr. Speaker, we can certainly take that into consideration, working with the development corporation at the community level, along with the Housing Corporation and our department. Mahsi.

Mr. Speaker, as many people will know, the Regular Members of the Legislative Assembly have been meeting lately to talk about ideas for strategic reductions, since the government has advised us that we need to find $135 million over the next two years. It’s been a very interesting discussion, and at some point our report and recommendations will be made public.

For those who don’t know, there’s a very interesting document available in our library. It’s called “Contracts Over $5,000.” It’s a public description of all contracts over $5,000. To anybody who wants some interesting reading material, I highly recommend it.

Lately, since we’ve been looking at ways to save money, I had Research pull together a list of contracts related to consulting companies that do not reside in the Northwest Territories. It’s very easy to identify those from outside the Territories.

We procure things such as strategic advice, consulting services — this is the description from the contract book — communication services, a review, strategic planning, case studies, support services, speaking engagements, diamond advisory. These ones, just from outside of the Territories, come to over $4.4 million for one year, in the fiscal year ended March 31, 2007.

I have a couple of questions for the Premier about the way these kinds of contracts are let. I would like to know, when Ministers decide they need some kind of support in the consulting area of a very generic type, as many of these are, what process do they have to go through to get that approved? Do you get to approve that, as the Premier?

Mr. Speaker, the Ministers would work through their department, if it is work on

behalf of the department — and I’d have to get a specific example. But through a department, the department can initiate that activity from direction given by the Minister, so I don’t get to review all of those areas for consulting contracts.

Mr. Speaker, the Premier said he’d have to have a specific example. Let me give you an example. “John Todd Holdings Ltd., consulting services, $48,000.” What kind of process goes into approving such a contract?

Mr. Speaker, I’m very familiar with that one, so I can inform the Member and this House about that process.

In trying to establish a contract with a firm, looking at what kind of work you want done and what you’re hoping to get the message out and the delivery on, in those cases one would approach — in my case, anyway — the Premier of the day to ask for advice in this area regarding the work that’s going to be undertaken.

In some cases that type of investment produces a much bigger benefit. If we want to get into that, I can talk about the $50 million it’s saved us as the Government of the Northwest Territories for having that strategic advice put in place.

Mr.

Speaker, so these

contracts are normally sole-sourced contracts, and we do spend a fair amount of money. I haven’t even gone into the ones where we hire people who actually reside in the Northwest Territories or who have their shingles hung out in the Northwest Territories.

In view of some of the need for cutbacks, does the Premier see any opportunity for savings on this particular type of discretionary spending?

Mr. Speaker, yes, I do.

Final supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Premier, then, if he would also communicate to his Ministers and the departments that this may be an area where they might like to look for some savings that would contribute to that total amount that we need to save over the next two years, and if he would put some guidelines and some parameters in place to provide guidance and leadership for Ministers and other departments as well.

Mr. Speaker, as I’ve sat here and listened intently, I’m sure they wouldn’t want to be brought up to this floor with next year’s public accounts or contracts over $5,000 and be reminded of that.

It is something we are looking at, as well as departmental travel.

Mr.

Speaker, in my Member’s

statement, I spoke about the eyes of the world being on Vancouver during the 2010 Olympics. We did have a presence at the Canada Winter Games. I understood that had made some difference to the amount of tourism we had up here.

I’d like to direct my questions today to the Minister of ITI. I’d like to ask him if the department has a plan to have a presence in Vancouver during the 2010 Olympics.

Mr. Speaker, the Member is correct. We were very pleased with the outcome of our participation at the Canada Winter Games in Whitehorse; our partnerships with Nunavut and Yukon on the marketing campaign; our N.W.T. House; and the athletes and performers and youth ambassadors who were there.

It is our intention to do the same thing again in Vancouver. Our government has entered an MOU with the governments of Nunavut and Yukon again, as well as the 2010 Vancouver Olympic Committee, to participate in the 2010 Winter Olympics.

Mr. Speaker, I’d thank to thank the Minister for answering all four of my questions in one answer. I'm just trying to come up with something.

Laughter.

I’d like to ask the Minister if there’s a dollar figure attached to our participation in the MOU.

Mr. Speaker, we’ve had some discussions with Nunavut and Yukon governments. We have developed a proposal, and that will be subject to the outcome of our budgeting process.

Mr. Speaker, I thank the Minister for that.

I’d also like to ask the Minister: when we will know? Will committees be informed as to our plans and our actual participation in the Olympics and how everything is going to play out down there? When will we have an idea of when all this is going to play out?

Mr. Speaker, I expect that we’ll have that information as part of the business planning process in May–June. We have toured some sites in Vancouver in order to help us develop our business plan.

Final supplementary, Mr. McLeod.

Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. In

answering my question before, the Minister had mentioned a proposal. I’d like to ask him if there was a dollar amount attached to this proposal that was put forward.

Mr.

Speaker, there is a

proposal that was put forward. I think it would be premature for me to indicate what that figure is, but we are looking at some substantial dollars.

Mr. Speaker, I’d like to ask the Minister Responsible for the N.W.T. Housing Corporation a few questions with respect to the Auditor General’s report.

I heard a Minister on the radio this morning speaking with, I believe, Mr. Henderson.

Many of the findings in the auditor’s report reiterate what I’ve been saying as a Member for the last two years: that we need a proper appeal system; we need a proper board in place that can assess clients. Many, many constituents have contacted me because they didn’t feel the assessments and applications were proper.

I know that the Housing Corporation had an opportunity to look at the report. Would the Minister care to comment specifically on the appeals system that may be addressed? Thank you.

The report of the Auditor General is before the government ops committee right now for review, so I'm going to rule that question out of order in the House at the present time.

Mr. Speaker, I'll try my question again, since you told me last time I was changing horses in midstream.

I'd like to address my question to the Minister of Education. Does the department have a zero-tolerance policy that addresses violence toward teachers in school?

Mahsi. Mr. Speaker, we do have policies with the school boards and different authorities at the community level. They establish their own zero-tolerance policies for teachers. It is in the works with each organization in the community. Mahsi.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to know whether or not the department has any particular actions or programs that are in place to oversee

what the district education councils or the school boards are doing, relative to zero-tolerance policies.

Mahsi. Mr. Speaker, our department works closely with the authorities and the school boards and has frequent contact with the superintendent of school operations. If issues arise, then there are protocols that they follow, a process, according to the policies that we have in place.

Yes, there is a system in place, with open communication and dialogue between our department and the communities. Mahsi.

Mr.

Speaker, one last question.

I guess I would take from that answer that there is nothing in place, from a department perspective, that ensures that teachers are in a safe environment in their school and their classroom.

Mr. Speaker, we have to work with the local school boards, and also the organizations, the authorities. They establish their own policies within the school system, and we continue to support them with developing their policies, with their changes.

Within our own ECE department we continue working with them to develop those policies and regulations and different program areas. Mahsi.

Item 8, written questions. Ms. Bisaro.

Mr.

Speaker, I have two written

questions I'd like to ask today. The first one is to the Department of Education, Culture and Employment.

Will the Minister advise the enrolments for all Yellowknife schools for the past five years (2003-2004 to 2007-2008)?

To the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs.

Will the Minister advise the per annum cost to the Government of the N.W.T. for our participation in the Arctic Winter Games for the current Games and past four Games (Games held in 2000, 2002, 2004, 2006, 2008)? All costs should be considered, to include but not limited to:

• G.N.W.T. funding contributions to Host

Societies

• Costs of Arctic Winter Games Regional Trials

• Costs of Arctic Winter Games Territorial Trials

• Cost of clothing for Arctic Winter Games

participants

• Cost for two N.W.T. representatives (Members) on the Arctic Winter Games International Committee

• Cost of department staff time or man hours.

Item 9, returns to written questions. Item 10, replies to opening address. Item 11, petitions. Item 12, reports of standing and special committees. Item 13, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 14, tabling of documents. Item 15, notices of motion. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.

Mr. Speaker, I seek and ask consent to go back to item 14.

Member seeks consent to return to item 14, tabling of documents. Are there any nays?

Consent granted.

Return to item 14, tabling of documents.

Mr. Speaker, I’d like to table the document from the United Nations in regard to the General Assembly, United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.

Document 4-16(2), United Nations Declaration

on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, tabled.

Item 16, notices of motion.

Mr. Speaker, I give notice that on Thursday, February 21, 2008, I will move the following motion: Now therefore I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Nunakput, that the Legislative Assembly strongly recommends that the Government of the Northwest Territories make construction of an access road to gravel sources for communities of Aklavik and Tuktoyaktuk priority projects under the new Building Canada planning funds. And further, should the construction of those access roads not meet the protocol of the Building Canada planning funds, that the Government of the Northwest Territories make those projects priorities of this initiative’s activation plans.

Item 16, notices of motion for first reading of bills. Item 17, motions.

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by honourable Member Dave Krutko of Mackenzie Delta, the Transfer of Responsibility for Social Housing motion:

WHEREAS the responsibility for the administration of the Public Housing Rental Subsidy was moved to the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, from the N.W.T. Housing Corporation, effective April 2, 2005;

AND WHEREAS over the past three years this program transfer has negatively impacted the residents of the Northwest Territories who live in social housing by unnecessarily complicating what was a simple process administered by the local housing organization;

AND WHEREAS one of the unforeseen consequences of this poorly conceived and communicated program transfer has been an increase to the number of households that are in arrears with their local housing organizations;

AND WHEREAS these arrears have endangered the financial viability of some local housing authorities and have made it difficult for them to find the necessary funding to effect repairs of public housing stocks;

AND WHEREAS these same local housing organizations and N.W.T. Housing Corporation have demonstrated their capacity and competence in administering social housing and in dealing with tenants in social housing in a caring and professional manner;

AND WHEREAS during the election campaign, the majority of voter concerns expressed to Members centered on the delivery of social housing and problems encountered since the program transfer to the Department of Education, Culture and Employment;

AND WHEREAS the same material facts that led the 15th Assembly to adopt Motion 10-15(5) on

November 1, 2006, directing the government to return responsibility for administering the Public Housing Rental Subsidy to the N.W.T. Housing Corporation and its local housing organizations still exist;

NOW THEREFORE I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, that this Legislative Assembly strongly recommends that the responsibility for the administration of social

housing be once again placed under the control of the N.W.T. Housing Corporation;

AND FURTHER, in keeping with the concept of centralizing subsidy programs, that the responsibility for determining the methodology for calculating social housing subsidies be retained by the Department of Education, Culture and Employment;

AND FURTHERMORE that this Legislative Assembly recommends the government provide a response for this Motion within 120 days.

Motion is on the floor. Motion is in order. To the motion.

As indicated in the motion itself, many of the constituents that I represent — and speaking with other colleagues on this side of the House — have expressed a concern over the transfer that occurred last year of the Public Subsidy Program from the Housing Corporation to the EC&E.

It has caused many, many hardships over the past couple of years since that transfer. One of the things that I’ve heard time and time again is that it’s just not working. It’s just not working. And even to this date, we’ve spoken about it with the Minister, and we’ve spoken about in our committee system. They keep saying that it’s growing pains, it’s growing pains, but Mr. Speaker, it has been two years of growing pains, and I don’t want our people to suffer any more.

What I would like to do is initiate this change back to the way the programming was. Some of the negative effects that have happened, I have spoken about it before already in this House. Particularly, people are being evicted on a more frequent basis.

I’m getting many inquiries. In fact, the worst-case scenario happened in one of my communities of Fort Liard. A whole family was thrown out because they weren’t meeting the rent scale, but it was only for $1,000. I still think that was a misapplication of our rules and guidelines. Just because the programming has growing pains, our people are suffering. This is just one instance of it.

Over time I’ve been monitoring this, and I really spoke against it in the last Assembly, about transferring it over. I didn’t think it was the best thing to do, because once we’d transferred to the Subsidy Program in EC&E, it is under more severe scrutiny, and there are people — hardworking people — who made their monthly rent. Once we made the transfer to the EC&E, we’ve changed a whole bunch of things. We changed rental scale, so a house they were paying at a more comfortable rate for their salary, only $400 or $500 a month, got bumped up immediately to $1,500, and immediately many, many people went into arrears overnight in

the transition stages. Many people were in arrears. Good, hardworking people who had never been in arrears in their life, and actually had never needed government help, now had to go to see the EC&E and put themselves through the ordeal of applying for income support. It’s kind of a blow to self-esteem for hardworking families who had always made their payments.

Now, it is my belief that we’ve created a whole new segment of people who are in arrears that’s creating a whole new different level of needs and concerns in our communities that wasn’t there before, Mr.

Speaker. So by transferring the

responsibility of social housing back to the Housing Corporation where it began…. It was a much easier system to deliver to our people. People understood it, and now with two different locations, it’s a lot more confusing. Even two years later, Mr. Speaker, it’s still confusing to residents and constituents and clients who use our public housing.

So with that, those are my initial thoughts on this motion. I really do want to see this change initiated that transfers our housing back. I believe it will better serve our constituents with respect to this change.

Just in closing, too, I do believe it was a mistake that this House made. It’s okay to correct mistakes. It’s okay to say that we’re wrong; we made a mistake. In this case I believe that we did. I believe that we should return social housing back to the ministry responsible for the Housing Corporation.

Mahsi cho.

I support the motion that’s before us today, like I supported the motion that the last Assembly passed in this House calling on the government to return social housing policy and the money back to the Housing Corporation where it belongs.

I’ve got constituents, too, who have a great deal of concern. I know my colleague Mr.

Menicoche

outlined some of them. The assessments are taking too long.

As I’ve said before, one of the most bizarre things I’ve seen, being a Member of this House, is how this all happened in the first place. I think what happened was the Minister went to an FPT meeting, saw some of the provinces going to the one-service delivery model — Ontario, New Brunswick — came back to the Northwest Territories and said, “Hey, we can do that here.” So they started on a course to pull the money out of the Housing Corporation and it was pulled. I don’t know if the Housing Corporation necessarily agreed with having that money pulled at the time, but it happened. We even went to the extent….

There was partial-year funding in a sup that Members on this side of the House pulled out of a Supplementary Appropriation. It was $440,000 at the time. That didn’t send the message; the government was still intent on hiring what ended up being twelve people to deliver the same program that was being delivered at the Housing Corporation, so it’s costing the government an additional…. Not only is it not serving the needs of our residents, it’s costing us an additional $1.5 million to administer every year.

So, Mr. Speaker, again, I think…. And not only that cost, but just recently we were briefed by EC&E on how they’re trying to massage this and trying to make it work. There’s a lot of time, effort and money being spent on consultations, going around talking to people…. Listen, it doesn’t work. What else do you have to know? It doesn’t work, Mr.

Speaker, and it needs to go back to the

Housing Corporation, where our residents can have some peace of mind that assessments are going to be done in a timely fashion and that things are going to be done appropriately. Right now, that peace of mind is not with our residents. Let’s take the program and put it back where it belongs.

Mahsi.

Mr. Speaker, I support this motion. I supported the last.... Actually I moved the last motion that came out in this respect. Having worked in local housing authorities for 23 years, I’ve seen firsthand all the people that would come in, take care of their assessment and be out the door. I think they were doing a fine job looking after it, and doing it with the resources and staff they had. There was a bit of a peak time, when for a few days you’d have everyone come in.

I don’t know what more we have to do, Mr. Speaker. People are bringing their concerns to us, yet after two years…. That’s why we continue to raise the issue. If it wasn’t an issue for the people, then it wouldn’t be an issue for us. Because they’re telling us all the time that this thing is not working, we have to listen to what they’re saying and what they’re asking.

In one of our Member’s Conduct Guidelines, there was a line in there that said: “Hear the voice of our people.” That’s what we’re trying to do. We’re listening to what they’re telling us; they’re telling us it’s a bad idea and they’d like to see it go back to where it usually was. It’s affecting everybody: the tenants, the local housing authorities.

Mr. Speaker, I thought it was a bad idea two years ago when it first rolled out, I think it’s a bad idea today, and I think it will be a bad idea two years from now when we’re debating the same motion.

Mr. Speaker, I too will be supporting the motion. I know from talking to local housing

authorities the frustrations they’re facing just trying to meet the required collection, which was, in the past, 90 per cent of all…. Most of these LHOs were able to collect 90 per cent of their rental revenues, but because of the income switch it’s basically that they’re having problems with tenants, Income Support, trying to get the documentation in place, trying to ensure that they’re able to meet their 90 per cent.

In regard to statistics I saw just last week, the majority of our LHOs are now, in some cases, well below 50 per cent of their collection rate. I think that in light of the Auditor General’s report, which clearly identifies that we have to do a better job by way of collections…. Also, we have to do a better job of delivering programs and services. A lot of that is directly related to the decisions made to basically consolidate the income programs in one area and take $30 million out of the Housing Corporation. That $30 million was there to pay for the cost of social housing in the Northwest Territories. So all we did was transfer $30 million to EC&E, pay them a large administration fee, hire 13 people, and still we can’t get it right.

As a government we do have a responsibility to listen to what our constituents are saying and, more importantly, I believe everyone who ran in the last general election heard it loud and clear, going door to door and talking to our tenants and also talking to the residents of our communities.

Mr. Speaker, I think it’s important that we do listen. Yes, let’s admit we made a mistake. Let’s get it back on track and allow housing to be managed through the housing authorities so people have a one-stop way of dealing with their housing needs, their assessment needs and also to be able to pay their rent all in one location.

Mr. Speaker, it’s important that we as government sometimes admit we make mistakes. I’ll admit it here in the House, as the previous Minister of Housing, for making that mistake. I heard it loud and clear during my tour through the communities, especially in Holman Island, where the whole community was out, and basically this issue was top and centre on everyone’s mind in regard to how it affected every employer in the community, every resident in the community and also the number of people that had to look at alternative housing.

A lot of people are living worse off now than they were before this policy decision was made, because they are living in worse-off housing conditions and having to move out of social housing because they just can’t afford to pay the rent, or they can’t afford to get the income support cheque in time, in which case they’re classified at an economic rate where you’re having to pay that rate until you try to get your paperwork in order.

Mr. Speaker, I will be supporting the motion.

Mr. Speaker, I too will be supporting the motion. I find the transfer of the public housing program to the Department of Education…. I don’t believe it was well thought out, and it was something I think has a good theoretical application but doesn’t apply practically. I think there’s enough work done on this side. It was felt the theory was that it would be an easy, smooth transfer over, and that all of the subsidies were going to try to be under one umbrella, and that they were going to attempt to have one-stop shopping for the tenants in the public housing.

As it turns out, it has complicated the lives of the people in public housing, definitely in Tu Nedhe. I find there is almost 50 per cent of the people in Tu Nedhe live in public housing. There’s an additional problem that I had seen with this transfer initially. There is, because as high as 65 per cent of some of the population in some of the communities live in public housing, there is not a stigma attached to living in public housing, as there is to have to go to the government for income support. Therefore, what this transfer has, in effect, done is taken all the people currently in public housing, all 2,000-plus families in public housing, and has essentially transferred them over to being income support clients.

I’m supporting the motion. Hopefully, the government will see that this was a mistake. I know, certainly, the people in the Tu Nedhe and even the workers in Tu Nedhe recognize that this is a mistake. They’ve worked with it, and they don’t feel it is something that is going to be successful. They don’t feel it’s something that is going to benefit the tenants in public housing. Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, I’d like to thank the Members for sharing their concerns and issues pertaining to this particular motion. These issues and concerns were addressed by the social program that we met with earlier last week. And we made a commitment to go back to the House and also to the committee in six months’ time to identify where the progress is at with the short-term/long-term action plan that’s been developed by the people from the community.

Mr. Speaker, just to highlight what’s been taking place pertaining to this motion, September ’07 is when it all started with identifying concerns and issues from our trips to the communities. As Members have shared in this House through various avenues, we’ve heard concerns, so we took immediate steps with my department and the Housing Corporation to find solutions to these issues.

We did conduct meetings in the communities at the regional level in September 2007, November 2007

and December. We did form committee representatives of ECE, Housing Corporation, local housing authorities, chairpersons of each housing authority and also the community reps and tenant relations officers, as well. So there were a variety of parties that were involved in the discussion. The group also met just last month to develop an action plan on long-term and short-term goals.

Those action plans came from the grassroots people, the people who are involved with the issues at hand. They’re the ones giving us the feedback to say these are the issues we need to deal with. They’re giving us solutions to work these challenges that we’re faced with.

Mr. Speaker, like any other projects that we take on or transfer assignments, we go through growing pains. It takes time to take on the new initiatives and make it work. We’ve been through so many initiatives in the past, transferring assignments and projects, and this is not the first time we’re going through this. It’s been two years, and it’s still a work in progress. We are faced with challenges. We’re aware of that. The community reps have identified it. That’s why we developed these plans.

The arrears that some Members have highlighted, as well as at the community level, were there before the transfer assignment, the transfer of the program. So we can’t say this created more arrears in the community. They were there before the transfer.

Also, just moving forward on this, I think we should be given the opportunity to initiate this short-term/long-term action plan with the community representatives, the LHOs, the client service officers in the communities, the regional reps, because I’m sure we fully believe they can make it work. They’re the ones who are the eyes and ears of our departments, both my department of ECE and also the Housing Corporation. We are continually closely working with them.

I see this as building on our relationship that we have in the community. We are continuing to build on the positive working relationships that we have with our department and directly with the communities.

Continuing on the working relationship also with the Members, I very much appreciate, myself and Mr. Miltenberger, getting input and feedback from them on identifying possible or potential solutions to challenges or problems we are faced with on a day-to-day basis at the community level.

Mr. Speaker, I won’t take much time, but I think one of the areas that the committee identified was a huge communication breakdown between the organizations, between agencies. There is a plan in place to deal with that communication. That’s probably where assessment and individuals not

sure where to go to…. That has been an issue in the communities. We are making progress on that.

As we speak, the short-term action plan is currently being worked on, and we are making progress towards that. Now we need to identify long-term goals and objectives at the community level.

I’d like to speak to the motion as well. I want to speak in support of some of the comments that Minister Lafferty made. We’ve now been in office about four and a half months, since mid-October. We’ve put a lot of time and effort into coming up with ways to deal with the one issue of assessments and timeliness. We believe we have, as we have indicated to committee, come up with a plan to do that. We’ve got a number of very specific ways we want to do that, tailor-made, hopefully, to the community on a community-by-community basis.

I also would like to point out that in terms of just the rental arrears, we do have about $7 million in arrears as of the end of March last year. There are a significant number of communities that are where they should be on their collection, but clearly, on those communities that are not yet at that level or have moved away from that level, we have work to do.

This issue goes back to 1999. At the time I was Minister of Education; Premier Roland was the Premier of Health at the time. We started what was called a harmonization initiative.

Interjection

Sorry. Minister of Health. We were engaged in an initiative called harmonization, which carried on until the 14th Assembly, with a certain number of fits and starts, and then further into the 15th , where it was put into

place with the one-window approach.

Mr.

Speaker, I’ve been an MLA now for over

12 years. Housing has always been the major issue in my community in terms of concerns. One of the reasons we moved to harmonization and the one-window approach was because of the extreme dissatisfaction with the then-current system or the system of the old days, when there were a number of doors to go through. There were stovepipes, where Education handled social support, and before that, Social Services handled welfare. They didn’t talk to each other, and clients were shuffled from pillar to post, trying to get things done.

The decision was made, after many years of study and debate, to do this process we have now. I just ask for the time to, in fact, give us the chance to put into place the things we’ve been working on. We’ve brought LHO chairs and managers into Yellowknife for the first time in years to sit down with the district staff, headquarters staff and ECE folks.

We have working committees now between the two departments, running community-by-community to sort out where there are problems in terms of the assessment and timeliness, and what are the options that we can put into place. We are identifying solutions community by community.

So I appreciate the concern, and I want to recognize it. Yes, housing is an issue for every one of us. We want to have the best possible system for our constituencies, our constituents that we all serve. We are facing very knowledgeable critics — former Ministers, former presidents of the Housing Corporation, long-term employees of the Housing Corporation that are intimately familiar with the workings, plus all the other Members.

So we take the concerns very seriously. We will be coming back in June, as we promised, to lay out what we’ve done and what progress we can demonstrate to this House.

I’ll allow the mover of the motion to close the debate.

We’ve had good debates here in the House with respect to this motion. I always believe in the fundamentals of democracy. And if our people want something, it’s my job as MLA — and our job as MLAs — to move their needs forward. That is one of the things we’re doing here with this motion, Mr. Speaker.

I know the Ministers have both spoken and said, “Give us time.” But they’ve had lots of time already, Mr. Speaker. I don’t know what…. To me, it looks like government is trying to convince themselves it’s going to get better, but I don’t believe it’s going to get any better, and our people don’t believe it’s going to get any better either, Mr. Speaker. This is why we want to resolve this and say, “Look, we had something that wasn’t broke, and we broke it, and we shifted it over to EC&E, and it’s just not working.” Government is trying to convince itself that it’s going to get better, but it’s not. I don’t believe it is, and I don’t believe our people believe it is going to get any better.

So we’ve got this motion here, and the government wants to resolve issues. What they’re really doing, by continuing this process, is providing a disservice to our people by creating a whole new level of issues. There are really issues that the communities, regions and people do want resolved, but by creating new issues, it just further complicates our goals of providing safe, reliable housing for our people and a safe, reliable system that goes with it too.

I’ve always believed we should be providing housing, not taking it away from our people. The old system was working. Our people have asked that we put it back to the Housing Corporation and

continue from there. Then we can concentrate on the other issues that are there for our communities.

So with that, Mr. Speaker, I would like to have a recorded vote. I rest my case. Mahsi.

The Member has asked for a recorded vote on the motion. All those in favour of the motion, please stand.