This is page numbers 427 to 466 of the Hansard for the 16th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was communities.

Topics

Question 141-16(2) Deh Cho Bridge Project
Oral Questions

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Mr. Speaker, that Co-op study, the one that was done with local retailers, that was in 2002–2003. A lot has changed since then, Mr.

Speaker. The price of gas has gone up

tremendously. People can’t afford to heat their homes here in Yellowknife.

Everything that comes across that bridge, Mr. Speaker, is going to cost more. Why is it going to cost more? Because there’s going to be a toll put on transportation or transport trucks that are going across that bridge, and the cost is going to be passed on to consumers here in Yellowknife, in Behchoko, and in the rest of the North Slave Region.

And nobody in the last government and nobody in this government has shown me one iota of proof that proves me wrong, Mr. Speaker — that the cost of living here is not going to go up. I think they should come clean on that evidence too, Mr. Speaker. Thank you. When can they give us that?

Question 141-16(2) Deh Cho Bridge Project
Oral Questions

Sahtu

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Minister of Transportation

Mr. Speaker, the costs are going up every day as we have this discussion. From 50 years ago, this bridge was deemed at $6 million for the Northwest Territories. It cost too much. And today, here, we’re talking about over $160 million.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to work with the Members here in terms of the price, in terms of the cost of

living. I would like to work further with the department in terms of working with other departments, other agencies, other organizations, in terms of showing that the cost of living is going to come down. The Member’s pointed out that the price of fuel is going up, is increasing on a weekly basis. That’s the high cost of doing business here.

However, Mr. Speaker, I would be happy to work with the Members here and to work with my department to see if some of the latest reports in terms of indications show that once the bridge is built, the cost of living would be going down.

Question 141-16(2) Deh Cho Bridge Project
Oral Questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. The time for question period has expired; however, I will allow the Member a supplementary.

Question 141-16(2) Deh Cho Bridge Project
Oral Questions

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Mr. Speaker, the last government showed a blatant disregard for residents here in Yellowknife and in the North Slave Region by not going out to stakeholders that were going to be impacted by the construction of this bridge project. This government is doing the same thing. It’s a blatant disregard for people when you don’t provide the evidence that is going to indicate the cost of living is not going to go up.

Again, I’m going to ask the Minister: has he got any proof or evidence outside of this study that was done five years ago that indicates that the cost of living in the North Slave Region is not going to go up? Where is that evidence, Mr. Speaker? The cost-benefit analysis they provided us with suggests the cost benefits are going to go down by $80 million. Where’s the other evidence?

Question 141-16(2) Deh Cho Bridge Project
Oral Questions

Sahtu

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Minister of Transportation

Mr. Speaker, industry today has shown that once you start hauling freight and fuel over to this side, it costs us more money to store it. It costs us more money to have the freight stored at the different locations of the retailers in Yellowknife and also in Behchoko.

Mr. Speaker, the government put more money into tolls in terms of bringing the costs down. There is evidence that the cost of living will be going down once we have this bridge built.

Question 141-16(2) Deh Cho Bridge Project
Oral Questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Final supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Question 141-16(2) Deh Cho Bridge Project
Oral Questions

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Mr. Speaker, well, if the Minister is adamant that’s the case, how come the last government and how come this government isn’t going back out to stakeholders and trying to find out exactly what the building of the Deh Cho Bridge will do to the cost of living here in the North Slave Region? How come they haven’t gone out and done that and talked to stakeholders, Mr. Speaker?

Question 141-16(2) Deh Cho Bridge Project
Oral Questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

You can’t expect the Minister to answer for the last government, but on the 16th Assembly, Mr. Yakeleya.

Question 141-16(2) Deh Cho Bridge Project
Oral Questions

Sahtu

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Minister of Transportation

Mr. Speaker, the bridge corporation will be going out to the stakeholders, will be going out to the public in Behchoko, Yellowknife, Fort Providence, Hay River — wherever they need to be, and they’ll go and have discussions with the people. They’ll be talking to certain key stakeholders to say that this is what is going to benefit the people in the Northwest Territories. I have been speaking with the bridge corporation, and that’s the plan — to go out and talk to the stakeholders and continue on with discussions.

This bridge is going to be built, and there are going to be benefits. I think that’s something we have to look at long term. I think the bridge corporation has already made some remarks in terms of a commitment to talk to the stakeholders.

Question 141-16(2) Deh Cho Bridge Project
Oral Questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Item 8, written questions. Item 9, returns to written questions.

Question 1-16(2) G.N.W.T. Public Service/nwt Power Corporation Salaries And Bonuses
Returns to Written Questions

Tim Mercer Clerk Of The House

Mr. Speaker, I have a return to written question 1-16(2) asked by Mr. Abernethy on Wednesday, February 6, 2008, to Hon.

Robert R. McLeod, Minister of Human

Resources, regarding the Government of the Northwest Territories Public Service and NWT Power Corporation bonuses and salaries.

Question 1-16(2) G.N.W.T. Public Service/nwt Power Corporation Salaries And Bonuses
Returns to Written Questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Item 10, replies to opening address. Item 11, petitions. Item 12, reports of standing and special committees. Item 13, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 14, tabling of documents.

Tabling of Documents
Tabling of Documents

February 19th, 2008

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the following document, entitled Annual Report of Official Languages, 2006–2007.

Document 25-16(2), Annual Report of Official

Languages, 2006–2007, tabled.

Tabling of Documents
Tabling of Documents

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the following document, entitled Northwest Territories Community Futures Program Annual Report to March 31, 2007.

Document 26-16(2), Northwest Territories

Community Futures Program Annual Report to March 31, 2007, tabled.

Tabling of Documents
Tabling of Documents

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake

Mr.

Speaker, I have two

documents to table. The first is entitled List of Inter-

Activity Transfers Exceeding $250,000 for the Period April 1, 2007 to December 31, 2007.

Document 27-16(2), List of Inter-Activity

Transfers Exceeding $250,000 for the Period April 1, 2007, to December 31, 2007, tabled.

As well, Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the following document, entitled Northwest Territories NWT Liquor Commission and Liquor Licensing Board, 53rd Annual Report, 2006-2007.

Document 28-16(2), Northwest Territories

NWT Liquor Commission and Liquor Licensing Board, 53rd Annual Report, 2006-2007, tabled.

Tabling of Documents
Tabling of Documents

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Mr. Speaker, I wish to table an information package sent to me by Open Doors Society with regard to a request of the government to help them relocate, as well as support letters from various organizations in Fort Simpson.

Document 29-16(2), Information Package

Regarding Open Doors Society Re-Location, tabled.

Tabling of Documents
Tabling of Documents

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Mr.

Speaker, I have three

documents that I would like to table.

The first document is a letter from Municipal and Community Affairs to Gallant Construction. It’s referring to the water treatment proposal stuff I talked about today.

The second document I would like to table is a letter from Gallant to Hon. Michael McLeod. It’s again in reference to the water treatment proposal stuff I talked about today.

Document 30-16(2), Letters Regarding RFP for

Community Water Treatment Plants, tabled.

The third item I would like to table is a list of consulting contracts outside the G.N.W.T. It is too lengthy to go into.

Document 31-16(2), List of Consulting

Contracts Outside the N.W.T., tabled.

Tabling of Documents
Tabling of Documents

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

I rise as an MLA. I would like to table a letter from Mayor Martselos from Fort Smith to Mr.

Hawkins, indicating his

negative comments have offended the people of Fort Smith and asking him for an apology and inviting him to Fort Smith to meet with the town council.

Document 32-16(2), Letter from Mayor

Martselos of Fort Smith to Robert Hawkins, Regarding Aurora College, Thebacha Campus, tabled.

Tabling of Documents
Tabling of Documents

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Item 15, notices of motion. Item 16, notices of motion for first reading of bills. Item 17, motions.

Motion 5-16(2) Reconsideration Of Power Rate Structure, Motion As Amended Carried
Motions

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker:

WHEREAS electric power is an essential service;

AND WHEREAS power rates across the Northwest Territories are presently established on a community-by-community basis in accordance with Public Utilities Board direction set in the mid-1990s;

AND WHEREAS the current structure results in small communities that depend on diesel-generated power paying exorbitant and unstable rates;

AND WHEREAS power rates are one of the main drivers for the high cost of living in small communities, and discourage local economic development;

AND WHEREAS residents of these communities are doubly burdened because they must also indirectly pay the high power costs passed on to them by businesses such as grocery stores;

AND WHEREAS the current Territorial Power Subsidy Program is not adequate or sustainable for these communities;

AND WHEREAS the complexity of the existing rate structure increases regulatory costs, which are also passed on to consumers;

AND WHEREAS the current rate structure does not allow upfront capital costs for small projects, such as micro-hydro, to be spread over the system, making investment in more environmentally sustainable energy generation difficult to put in place;

AND WHEREAS the 16th Legislative Assembly has

agreed that one of its priorities is to pursue initiatives to reduce the cost of living, and in particular energy costs, in support of the goal of sustainable, vibrant and safe communities;

AND WHEREAS other Canadian jurisdictions have implemented levelized power rate zones in place of community-by-community rates;

AND WHEREAS legislation in both the Yukon and Nunavut allows the territorial governments to provide direction to the utilities boards;

NOW THEREFORE, I move, seconded by the hon. Member for Nahendeh, that this Legislative Assembly strongly recommends that the Government initiate the necessary policy changes, and bring forward the necessary legislative amendments, to make possible the consideration of

levelized power rates for the Northwest Territories at the time of the NWT Power Corporation’s next General Rate Application;

AND FURTHER, that this Legislative Assembly strongly recommends that these legislative amendments include, if necessary, changes to the Public Utilities Act which would give the Government authority to provide direction to the Public Utilities Board;

AND FURTHER, that this Legislative Assembly strongly recommends that the Government instruct the NWT Power Corporation to base its next General Rate Application on a levelized rate structure;

AND FURTHERMORE that this Legislative Assembly recommends the Government provide a response to this motion within 120 days.

Motion 5-16(2) Reconsideration Of Power Rate Structure, Motion As Amended Carried
Motions

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. The motion is on the floor. The motion is in order.

Before I allow debate on the motion, the Chair is going to call a short break.

The House took a short recess.

Motion 5-16(2) Reconsideration Of Power Rate Structure, Motion As Amended Carried
Motions

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

I call the House back to order. Before the break there was a motion put on the floor. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Motion 5-16(2) Reconsideration Of Power Rate Structure, Motion As Amended Carried
Motions

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, in regard to the motion considering the possibility of levelized rates in the Northwest Territories, I think it’s long overdue in realizing the costs to this government: the cost of administering the Territorial subsidy program, the housing subsidy for power, the cost to proceed with the general rate applications. We’re looking in the range of some $60 million if you add it all up. I think that, as a government, we realize the implications that it has and the possibility of re-profiling those dollars to really deal with the cost of living and bring down the cost of energy in our communities.

Mr.

Speaker, we all know the cost to this

government by way of reviewing rate applications and filing rate applications. You’re filing some 28 applications in regard to PUB hearings. Twenty-eight applications. Through this process you are possibly looking at three applications: one for diesel communities, one for gas communities and one for hydro communities. Looking at the cost of that to this government right now, it costs in the range of $2 million to $3 million just to go through the application process of filing a general rate application.

I think we have to look at this in the confines of how we ourselves as government can improve the cost of living in communities but also realizing the savings that we could put in place as a government by these different initiatives.

In regard to the statement made by the Minister of Energy yesterday, this is exactly where this motion will take us. I think that by taking that direction and realizing the importance of that, we have to realize we cannot seriously function in the Northwest Territories with these rates.

The biggest benefactors of these changes will be the communities. The high costs of these rates, regardless of whether you bring in the subsidy — the subsidy will still have to remain. But I think it’s important to realize that in doing a rough adjustment, just going back to the application that was filed in regard to one rate zone, at that time they were looking at a rate system for hydro communities, diesel communities and gas communities of 24 cents per kilowatt throughout the whole Northwest Territories. That was based on a one-rate-zone application.

Looking at these statistics, talking to people within the Power Corporation, they figure that the cost to implement levelized rates in diesel communities is somewhere in the 30-cent range. Look at the power rates using kobalite, for instance: $2.65. I met with the Arctic Co-operatives Limited and discussed this issue with them. The biggest cost driver for them to deliver their products in their communities is the cost of energy. Most communities spend in excess of, in some cases, $15,000 to $20,000 a month to basically provide power. I know that McPherson, for instance — I had a co-op there — they are in the hole some $200,000 because they just can’t have enough revenues coming in for the high cost they pay for the power.

Yet, through this process that we’re talking about implementing, there was discussion about implementing a subsidy by way of a commercial subsidy, which would have cost us an additional $5 million to what we’re already paying. I think it’s important that we take that into account. I think it’s important that through the whole idea of finding ways of stimulating our communities, stimulating our economies, it will do a lot more to stimulate the economy by bringing down those energy costs to the construction industry, to the general stores, to the co-ops, to the business community in our communities. Basically, this will fill in for that subsidy. It will make their businesses sustainable in these communities and also make developing small businesses and looking at initiatives in those communities more viable than it is right now.

That is an incentive, as government is realizing. We have a lot of discussion with regard to employment/unemployment statistics, small communities, large communities. More importantly, I think it’s realizing the importance that this will have. I know there are concerns in regard to looking at a system that is going to be fair. But, again, we have to start somewhere. I believe that through this motion, through the Minister’s

statement yesterday in the House, it will eventually get us there.

Mr. Speaker, I’d just like to read for the record a decision that was made by the Public Utilities Board in Decision 5-95. It clearly states that the board is deeply concerned about the affordability of power rates in the Northwest Territories. The board fully recognizes the potential impact on diesel communities to have power rates which reflect costs. The board believes it is the responsibility of the Government of the Northwest Territories to set policy with respect to matters of social engineering. The board anticipates it must consider the public’s interest in formulating its decision. However, the board does not believe that it should decide the extent to which one group or the other has to pay for these subsidies.

But more importantly, Mr. Speaker, I’d just like to state in closing up that it’s the board that recognizes this by way of the Public Utilities Board, and it’s the government that has to set the policy direction, either by way of legislation or by way of policy. This motion directs the government to seriously consider that.

Mr. Speaker, I do look forward to debate on this motion and also ask for the support of the Members of this House so we can proceed and deal with a direction we set as the 16th Assembly to look at

energy costs and bring down the high cost of energy in a lot of our small communities.

Motion 5-16(2) Reconsideration Of Power Rate Structure, Motion As Amended Carried
Motions

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

To the motion.

Motion 5-16(2) Reconsideration Of Power Rate Structure, Motion As Amended Carried
Motions

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

I MOVE, seconded by the honourable Member for Frame Lake, that Motion 5-16(2) be amended as follows:

By inserting the words “communities that rely on diesel-generated power in” in paragraph 12 immediately after the words “consideration of levelized power rates for”;

AND FURTHER: By inserting the words “for communities that rely on diesel-generated power” in paragraph 14 immediately after the words “on a levelized rate structure.”