Mr. Chairman, the process used was that…. For example, even in our calculation here within Executive, we had three initially that would have been affected as a result of sunset. We’ve gone back and got one position through our strategic initiatives. Those have been incorporated in the overall target numbers for reductions. So if a program was sunsetted to end already because the program ended through dollars that ended at the end of this fiscal year, those have been incorporated into the reductions and have been figured into the equation.

The new positions…. In some cases, as we’ve again highlighted here, instead of three being impacted as a result of the sunset, we went back for one under strategic initiative. That gets counted in the 14.5, for example. There are others that could have been incorporated in the 14.5.

Throughout this document, though, as the Member has pointed out, when you go through that detail and look at what other growth is in there, you will find these other 124 positions. Some aren’t identified, though, Mr. Chairman: for example, the increase in PTR. It’s hard to come up with actual numbers, because that funding growth is given to authorities, and they have the flexibility of hiring additional staff or using them in program areas. It is for staff. They manage it, though. That’s the one area.

Some — for example, the hiring of relief nurses and other areas — are hard to pinpoint actual positions for throughout the year.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I’d just like to ask the Premier: how many affirmative action candidates are there in the Exec?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Roland.

Mr. Chairman, we do have that information. The total number for affirmative-action stats would be indigenous and aboriginal at 24 per cent, indigenous non-aboriginal 24 percent, and non-aboriginal at 52 per cent.

Mr. Chair, as we’ve seen, we all know that the aboriginal population of the Territories is some 51 per cent. Yet in a lot of departments there’s very little emphasis put on that. I know in the past, when we used to do business plans, they used to actually list the affirmative-action percentages in the Active Positions category. So

I’m just wondering, from the Premier: is there a possibility they can reinstate that in future budgets so you can actually see the percentages in the Main Estimates and we don’t have to ask this question every time we look at the Active Positions category? It’s actually there as an information item?

Mr.

Chairman, as the

Member has pointed out, that used to be a part of the information items, as are, for example, the position numbers. We can look at how we can put that back into the presentation.

Mr.

Chair, as we know, this

department also has the Status of Women Council. We have the Native Women’s Association, which falls under the responsibility of this department.

I think it’s important that we also have a workforce that…. Basically, for the people we serve, whether it’s aboriginal or a women’s group, we have to have some presence in the bureaucracy.

I’ll use an illustration. If you’re affected by a policy in government and you know what that policy is supposedly going to do for you…. I’ll use the affirmative action policy. If you don’t have people at the top levels of government, who really are supposed to be effectively making decisions around policies of government, are those policies that don’t affect you as an individual? I don’t think it really means much to you what the advantages or disadvantages of those policies are.

I think that as a reflection of the workforce we have, we need to ensure we have people who know what these policies are, whether it’s a question of affirmative action or dealing with the fundamental rights and representation by way of population or gender or whatever. We have to be reflective, especially in the senior management level of these departments that, we know, make decisions that affect people. They affect rights. They affect those types of services we provide.

I’d just like to ask the Premier: is there any attempt made to revamp or relook at exactly how the positions are held and how those positions are being filled in light of these policies and other responsibilities, that government has to ensure we are representative of those people within the government and not simply saying we represent them?

Mr. Chairman, I guess we have to recognize the perception that without the aboriginal levels of employment in areas of government, we’d be seen as being complacent or not truly representing the population. The fact is, though, we have a lot of people who are dedicated to the work they’re doing and trying to get it done.

We do have the affirmative action policy. Yes, when you look at the numbers, there needs to be improvement. Previous governments have tried to deal with that as well. In fact, the current Minister of Human Resources is, I believe, having some dialogue with Members to see if Members are looking at a new program that would look at the affirmative action policy — an employment inequity piece that would, again, look at ways of trying to increase our numbers.

The other thing is, when it comes to some of these areas of policy — writing the policy, the legal end of interpretation and so on — we definitely need to encourage some of our young people and aboriginal population to get into those lines of education, so they can end up taking over these critical areas. I think we can throw in a number of departments through the hiring of staff and slowly moving them up to senior management and further education improvements through our normal process. We’ve made some inroads there, but definitely there needs to be more improvement.

In fact, Mr. Chairman, when I share this with people back home in the constituency and others when we get talking about this topic…. We need to find more of our young students who would enter into this field of policy and, I guess, the work that makes government happen in this area. We don’t have, even, a lot of our high school graduates who would consider this to be a career avenue. But I tell people that if you really want to make a difference, this is the area you should get involved in. Hopefully, we can have more and more students go down that avenue.

With regard to the number of aboriginal individuals who are affected by these layoffs, there are some 60 individuals, basically, from the information I was able to review. We’re not even at 30 per cent in regard to representation in our workforce, but we’re laying 60 aboriginal affirmative 1 individuals off by way of reductions. We’re praising — well, we’re still at 31 per cent, so it’s not really affecting….

I mean, that’s a bad message to be sending. We’re going to lay 60 aboriginal people off. With reductions it balances out with the other numbers, so you’re not less than 31 per cent. If anything, we’re standing. It’s in the paper today. I think it sends the wrong message about how we’re trying to achieve the 50 per cent number. In Nunakput it’s 60 per cent. I think, to have this heart and hoof ahead of government endorsing that type of message, it sends a bad message.

We can look at other government agencies, such as the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs, which has a regional office here in Yellowknife. They are doing a lot better than the Government of

the Northwest Territories when it comes to those statistics.

I’d like to ask the Premier exactly what we are doing to enhance those numbers by making sure we are surpassing 31 per cent. If anything, we should be aiming for 40 per cent, and at some point the goal should be 50 per cent. I’d just like to ask, again, to allow that to take place, to be responsible for a policy that definitely had great intentions of trying to reflect the workforce in the Government of the Northwest Territories. Coming from the Department of Executive, I think the message that has to go out is that we are trying to exceed that number, if anything — not taking down barriers by laying people off who basically fall under that category.

Mr. Chairman, the goal of the government is to live within its means. Departments were given their targets to find avenues to still deliver the programs that are required in a manner that is acceptable and meets the requirements and standards we’ve put in place. This exercise was done within that process. It wasn’t done by whether you were aboriginal or non-aboriginal, born in the North or arrived six months ago, although some people figure that’s the avenue it should have taken. It just went program by program in each department.

Now, the simple fact, Mr.

Chairman, is that

affirmative action has been a concern of the Government of the Northwest Territories right from when the program was initially put in place. Members who have returned from previous Assemblies know there was work done to try to find a program to get the movement and momentum back into that area so we can hire more and more aboriginal people from the Northwest Territories.

If you look at our social services program through Aurora College, our nursing program through Aurora College, we’re trying to get local people trained so they can take those jobs. It’s starting to have results, so we need to find a way to expand that. We’re hoping we’ll find an avenue through Members who’d agree this would be the avenue to go down as the employment equity piece. That would find new initiatives to try to encourage further occupations within the Government of the Northwest Territories that we could have the people trained for and ready to take on.

In no way do I endorse the fact that the status quo is good. In fact, in taking this position, I’ve talked about our need to look at doing things differently. Obviously, the existing program in place hasn’t been working. It’s stalled out and been levelled off for quite a number of years. In some of those areas it’s because we need to get the proper training

programs in place to have the people in the North take on the new positions.

I would also say we’ve had some success in areas. The people who would probably be working for us are now working for aboriginal organizations and governments. They have gained the experience necessary to take on the important roles at those levels. Those organizations are themselves, as well, dealing with capacity issues. I think there is a combination of things at work here.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Moving on. Ms. Bisaro.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I wanted to just follow up on the request for information from Mr. Krutko.

I would find it of value, as well, to have information on various types of people that are employed within each department and to have that information in the business plan. If we’re going to do that, however, I would appreciate seeing statistics that indicate the number of disabled persons and the number of women in various positions within the government. We would also like to see the same sort of statistics for senior management employees: aboriginal, women and disabled. I’d like to ask the Minister whether or not that would be considered.

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Mr. Roland.

Mr. Chairman,

the

presentation of information is something I’ve committed to Mr.

Krutko, the Member for

Mackenzie Delta, that we would look at re-incorporating. As well, the business plan process we’ve gone to would have a lot of the fine detail available. As we go into this next cycle, we’ll be able to provide that information through that. We’ll look at how we would look at the presentation of this document itself — the Main Estimates — for Members, as well as for the public, as it becomes a public document.

I believe we do capture, in our detail, women in management or in the occupations within departments.

The area of some difficulty — we’ve tried to deal with this in previous governments, and we’ll look at it again in our government — is the area of disabilities. It’s a self-declaration. When persons are applying for positions, they have to make a self-declaration in that area, and some people choose not to. It would make that difficult, but we can try to see how we can incorporate that.

Just a comment: I would appreciate seeing that sort of information broken out. I understand that the stats for disabled persons as

employees are skewed because people do have to self-identify. It may be that if we start publicizing our numbers, employees right across the board may become more comfortable or more familiar with the fact that we have disabled employees. We may start to get either greater acceptance on the part of non-disabled employees or greater willingness to come forward on the part of disabled employees. I would encourage the Minister to do that.

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. I’m not sure there was a question there. Any remarks, Mr. Roland?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As mentioned earlier, we will look at how we can incorporate that and work with Members in the presentation.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Any further questions? We’re on page 2-12, information item, Executive Offices, Active Positions — By Region.

Department of Executive, Program Summary,

Active Positions — By Region, information item, approved.

Page 2-13, Executive Offices, Active Positions — Community Allocation.

Department of Executive, Program Summary,

Active Positions — Community Allocation, approved.

Page 2-14, Executive Offices, Revenue Summary: $319,000.

Department of Executive, Department

Summary, Revenue Summary: $319,000, approved.

Page 2-17, Executive Offices, Directorate, Operations Expenditure Summary: $2.559 million.

Department of Executive, Activity Summary,

Directorate, Operations Expenditure Summary: $2.559 million, approved.

Page 2-19, Executive Offices, Directorate, Grants and Contributions: $150,000.

Department of Executive, Activity Summary,

Directorate, Grants and Contributions: $150,000, approved.

Page 2-20, Executive Offices, Directorate, Grants and Contributions — Continued: $150,000.

Department of Executive, Activity Summary,

Directorate, Grants and Contributions — Continued: $150,000, approved.