Maybe I could suggest something to the Minister. I notice that amortization is increased by over $1 million, so maybe that’s a start.

We appreciate the suggestion from the Member, and we’ll be looking at all opportunities.

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Mr. Menicoche.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair. I just

wanted to revitalize an old friend of mine, Granny from Nahanni. She’s got one of our new modern homes that we had built for her, but we’re finding that the cost of living and the pressures are impacting her income. The cost of heating fuel has really risen astronomically, as well as the cost of power and electricity. Actually, I tell people we’re fortunate that summer has come along here, because I don’t think that people could have afforded their homes much longer. It’s very stressful on households and on everybody throughout the North.

I know that we had discussions about fourplexes, sixplexes, that type of unit, to get away from individual heating units and start moving toward more different — well, to me it’s moving towards district heating. In the units that we’re building, I believe that if we move towards duplexes or fourplexes, it would be a lot better, especially in this day and age, and more efficient. I’m quite certain of that. I’d like to know if the Housing Corporation is moving in that direction.

As well, with respect to efficiency, what types of homes are we planning? Are we going to continue to build the old homes, or are we looking at something more efficient and more useful to people in our communities? I’d like to know if the corporation is moving in the direction of looking at any strategies toward that area.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Minister Miltenberger.

We are looking at the issue of multi-built — where you have more than one unit built together to minimize your costs, to minimize your outside walls, to reduce your energy consumption. In some cases we’re also looking at the use of pellet stoves. One of the broader things we’re looking at is new construction. We’re not just going to build houses to old standards, but look at the R value, the types of windows, the types of doors, the types of entryways, so that you minimize heat loss and all those types of things.

We want to look at the types of heating systems we’re using and, in the broader term, in the communities that are diesel communities, I think the issue of some type of district power and heating generation. They have generators now that can turn out up to ten megawatts of power, that can operate on wood pellets, which are used extensively in Europe, in places like Sweden. I think there’s a tremendous opportunity for us to investigate that type of technology for those communities that rely solely on diesel generation. It would help drop the cost, get us off diesel and uncontrollable costs. So there are a number of areas that we’re working on.

I just want to switch gears a little bit and talk about the whole area of on-the-land programs and housing available to build on the land. I think this is the second year where that program has disappeared. I don’t know. With the Elders on the Land program constituents have been asking me time and time again, “Can I get my application in for the Elders on the Land program? Mr. So-and-so got it, and he’s doing quite well.” In fact, a lot of people in my riding are looking at returning to the land, and some of them still live there. For whatever reason, they didn’t get their allocation or apply to build a home in their traditional area and actually still live out there too, Mr. Chair.

Particularly in Fort Liard they have lots of land users out there, and they ask me about it. I’d just like to know: will the department look at that program again and bring it back in another form? Because it is providing homes for families, and in this case it’s supporting their traditional lifestyle and building that home in their traditional area. I’d just like to know if the Housing Corporation will be looking at that again, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Chairman, if the client or individual is in need of a primary residence and it happens to be not in a community, we have the capacity to work with them. If it’s going to be a secondary residence for other partial use, then that program has been, as the Member indicated, discontinued. Given our circumstances, just trying to meet the needs of people for primary residences, we don’t have the capacity and aren’t contemplating bringing that forward to help people with secondary or tertiary residences.

Absolutely. I certainly agree with the Minister that building secondary homes for people is not a goal of this government or should be for anybody else. If they want to do that, they should certainly do that on their own, but primary residences are certainly something that I believe we have to continue with, and I certainly support that.

With respect to elders eligibility programming, I’m finding that some of our elders are actually being denied programming. I don’t think it’s an arrears problem at all there, Mr. Chair, but it’s an income threshold problem. They’re senior citizens, and their sole source of income, of course, is Old Age pension in many cases. Many of them don’t have the benefit of any corporate or government pension at all. The Old Age supplement is pretty much all they’re entitled to. So maybe the Minister can correct me if I’m wrong, but based on that type of income, are they still eligible for programming, or indeed they’re being held to the letter of the law where they’re not making enough income to make a mortgage payment, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. Polakoff.

Mr. Menicoche.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. That’s all the questions I have for right now.

Ms. Bisaro.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair. I have a

number of comments which have already been made, so I’ll just highlight them. I don’t expect answers. I think they’ve been answered already, but I wanted to point out some concerns which I have.

We just discussed housing for seniors. My concern is housing for seniors — I don’t know a better way to put it — who have money. I believe there needs

to be — probably more so in Yellowknife than in any other community — some sort of housing source for seniors who have a certain amount of money. There needs to be some sort of a subsidy for seniors who can afford their own place but can’t afford the full cost of it.

I am concerned about the lack of housing for disabled persons, particularly those who have a family, who have children. Yellowknife certainly has units right now for disabled persons, but they don’t accommodate somebody who has a family.

I am concerned as well about the success or lack of for the transfer of the Rental Subsidy Program over to Education, Culture and Employment. I appreciate that we’ve been getting regular updates from both the Housing Corp and from ECE, and I hope this will continue because there’s still a lot of concern out there on the part of residents. I am a little dismayed at the reductions in the repairs and enhancement programs. I feel very strongly that that’s one of the areas that we need to enhance, not to reduce, and as has been mentioned earlier, repairs for seniors…. That program, as well, needs to be extended or made easier to get at.

Something that hasn’t been mentioned yet but which is a concern for me is the reduction of the internal audit function of the Housing Corp. I understand that these two positions will be transferred over to the Audit Bureau, but it means that the Housing Corporation will no longer have their own auditors to perform an internal audit function.

I’m particularly concerned that the corporation is losing its ability to monitor the local housing authorities and to monitor that they are adequately applying the policies, which I can’t get hold of, and that the programs and services are being applied and being doled out in a fair and proper manner. This was something that was noted by the Auditor General, and I appreciate the Housing Corp has advised that they will continue to do this. But without specific dedicated auditors for the internal audit function, I see it as a bit of a problem. So most of those don’t need answers; probably all of them don’t need answers, but I did want to highlight my concerns.

Thank you,

Ms. Bisaro. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman. I’ll take the direction from

Ms. Bisaro. The one issue that has come up that hasn’t yet been touched on is the internal audit function. I’ll just ask Mr. Polakoff to briefly explain the rationale.

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Mr. Polakoff.

Thank you, Mr. Polakoff. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. In regard to the issue around individuals who may have been evicted for one reason or another, especially who have families and children involved…. As a government we still have units in our communities that may not be perfect in the sense of a modern house, but the Housing Corporation still has these units. They still maintain them. I think that everything should be done to deal with the homeless issue to have some sort of transitional housing or shelter in communities. Like the Member for Nunakput tried to state, where do these people go once they are evicted from housing? Housing still has units in our communities that could accommodate that family. It might not be as good a dwelling as they had just left, but at least it puts a roof over their heads.

I think that as a corporation and as the Department of ECE, dealing with the homeless issue, we spend a lot of money dealing with institutions here in Yellowknife. We have transitional housing. We have the youth facility here where there is homelessness money being expended, but when it comes to our communities, it seems like there is very little being done to deal with the homelessness issue. You might not see people sleeping on the streets or sleeping under buildings or in the doorways, but I think it is real. It’s there in our communities. A lot of

these people have been evicted from housing for one reason or another. Most of it has to do with substance abuse or drugs. But for these people it’s still a problem.

As a corporation we do have to somehow…. I can’t say forgive and forget, but these people, despite arrears or whatnot, are still citizens of the Northwest Territories. They should have an opportunity to have some sort of means of maintaining some lifestyle by being able to provide for their family members. I know I raised the issue previously. We should have designated one or two units in the communities, which may be the old SHAG units that basically are over 35 years old anyways. We are either going to mothball them or get rid of them. So maybe make arrangements with that individual and Social Services that they work with that individual to — they won’t pay the costs — at least provide some means of housing for these individuals regardless of the condition rating of that unit.

We have to do something by way of homelessness issues in our communities. What we are seeing are problems with people in arrears and also problems of people with substance abuse. These people are still citizens or residents of our communities, and we still have to find ways to accommodate them. In the larger centres we do have organizations like the Salvation Army or the drop-in centre for youth that are providing means for these individuals to accommodate them to sleep at night and put a roof over their heads. I think that we should find some system to deal with that in isolated, smaller communities where this government does have surplus housing that isn’t being used, basically accommodate these people in the interim until they work out their problems with Social Services and whatnot.

I’d like to know: has the Minister, as Minister responsible for housing and as a member of that homelessness group with other Ministers, ever considered that as an option to deal with the homelessness issues in communities, knowing that we do have these units? They might not be perfect, but at least that puts a roof over people’s heads, a home for people who have children and whatnot, when you can’t just throw them out on the street.

Mr. Chairman, we have a small settlement homelessness fund that’s been in place for the last number of years as well. We stand ready to work with communities with whatever housing stock may be available, providing there is a group or some agency in the community that is prepared to play the lead in terms of dealing with the hard-to-house homelessness issue, where there are addiction issues and other social issues that are probably at play in terms of the lifestyle of the individual. We have the two approaches. The opportunity is there. It requires the community to step forward, either through an inter-agency group or through the hamlet or the community, to play a lead role, but we stand ready to work with communities in terms of trying to identify infrastructure, if it exists in the community.

I’m wondering, does the corporation — and we do have a committee of Ministers who deal with the homelessness issue — have a comprehensive policy or procedure in place to deal with homelessness in small communities? When we know there are ways that we can accommodate where we may not have….

Excuse me, Mr. Hawkins. I’m asking a question of the Minister. Did you get it, Mr. Minister?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Minister Miltenberger.