Thank you, Mr.

Chairman. I am pleased to present the

Northwest Territories Housing Corporation’s Main Estimates for the fiscal year 2008–2009, for the total contribution of $52.512 million. This is an increase of 2.3 per cent from the 2007–2008 Main Estimates.

Including other revenue sources the corporation will spend approximately $120 million on housing in the Northwest Territories this year. This funding includes contributions from the Government of Canada under the final year of the Northern Housing Trust. Through 2008–2009 the NWT Housing Corporation is planning a substantial housing delivery program to help address the housing needs of our residents.

Through our Capital Acquisition Plan the corporation will invest over $38 million in our housing stock. This includes $35 million to construct 174 housing units in communities across the Northwest Territories, as well as $3.4 million in major modernization and improvement projects to upgrade existing rental housing stock. The units to be constructed include 76 public housing replacement units and 98 home ownership units to be delivered to clients through the Housing Choices program.

The Housing Corporation also plans to invest $844,000 in minor modernization and improvements to our rental stock through our local housing organizations and has set aside $1.669 million to fund home ownership repair and renovation programs. These projects will be completed through the NWT Housing Corporation’s Contributing Assistance for Repairs and Enhancements program, which is an element of Housing Choices, as well as through federal renovation programs such as the Residential Rehabilitation Assistance Program.

The Housing Corporation remains committed to meeting the housing needs of our residents. While our construction and renovation work is the most significant activity we are undertaking, there are several other efforts underway to improve corporate performance and ensure that our mandate is met through strategic planning and policy control.

Through our new plan, Framework for Action, 2008–2011, we are charting a course for future corporate activities in pursuit of our mandate to provide affordable, adequate and suitable housing for residents of the Northwest Territories.

Other important efforts include a corporate reorganization designed to improve the support we provide to regional offices and LHOs and to make strategic planning and policy a more integrated component of our business.

As with all departments and agencies the corporation identified specific target reduction options for consideration in light of the GNWT’s current fiscal situation. This goal has been achieved with only a $100,000 reduction to our $38 million capital acquisition plan during the final year of the Affordable Housing Initiative.

Our ability to continue with this ambitious delivery plan is due to both the federal government’s investment to the Northern Housing Trust along with the commitment of this government and Members of the Legislative Assembly to match this contribution.

While federal support for new construction beyond this year is uncertain, I’m hopeful that this Assembly will see fit to continue our investment in new housing into the future.

With that in mind, during the upcoming year the Housing Corporation will develop a new housing construction strategy that, through a combination of new construction and maintenance and repair activities, will address core need, expand home ownership repair assistance and alleviate some of the infrastructure deficit in public housing.

Mr. Chair, as mentioned, our capital plan for this year will total $38

million. Nearly half of our

$38

million capital plan is funded through the

Government of Canada’s Northern Housing Trust. This funding along with the federal funding for renovation and repair, as well as homelessness funding provided directly by the federal government to community groups, will lapse as of March 31, 2009. As of today the federal government has made no commitments to extend funding for affordable housing programs past this date, and CMHC’s social housing funding continues to decline rapidly, leading to its eventual end in 2038.

While the GNWT’s fiscal situation is a cause for concern, it should be noted that the cumulative

shortfall of social housing funding between now and 2038 is over $300 million. Without renewed federal support and a continuing commitment by this government to make investments in housing, the future of our housing programs and services will be in jeopardy.

That concludes my opening remarks. At this time I’d be pleased to answer any questions the committee may have. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

At this time I’d like to ask the committee responsible for overseeing the department’s reviews if they have any opening general comments or comments to the department’s estimates. Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. The committee met with the Minister and his staff on April

9, 2008, to consider the department’s

2008–2009 Draft Main Estimates.

The committee noted that the total operating budget is $81.427 million. Committee members offered the following comments on issues arising out of the review of the 2008–2009 Draft Main Estimates, and for that, Mr. Chairman, I’m going to go to my honourable colleague Mr. Jackie Jacobson, deputy chair of the committee.

Mr. Jacobson.

Thank you.

Market Housing Initiative

The purpose of the Market Housing Initiative is to attempt to improve availability of rental accommodation for essential services personnel such as teachers and nurses who are working in smaller communities. The committee recognizes that the lack of rental accommodation has caused serious implications for delivery of essential programs and services. Members support the corporation’s efforts to address the need for the market housing communities to encourage all parties to work together to achieve positive results.

CMHC Funding

The funding through Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation to support operation amortization costs for public housing — is declining on a yearly basis and will lapse entirely by 2038. This will result in a total shortfall of O&M funding of over $340 million. Committee members recognize the critical importance of this funding to maintain social housing. Members support the efforts of the Minister and the government in working with their provincial and territorial counterparts to lobby the federal government to retain investment in Canada’s social housing programs.

Affordable Housing Initiatives

In 2006 the federal government committed $50 million to the Northwest Territories through the Northern Housing Trust to be drawn down over three years. This funding was matched by the GNWT. The program is delivered through the Affordable Housing Initiative, AHI. It commits the government to construction of as many as 533 housing units within those three years.

The availability of suitable land and the lack of land within the communities continue to have significant impacts on delivery of housing under the AHI. Given these challenges, committee members expressed concern about the corporation’s ability to meet commitments within the designated time frame. Members encouraged the Minister and officials to negotiate the extension of funding through the federal government.

Committee members also understand that under the Northern Housing Trust agreement, if land issues cannot be resolved in the community, the corporation has no choice but to move new housing to new communities that do have available lots. Members encourage all parties involved in the process to continue to work to resolve these outstanding issues.

Internal Audit Function

As a part of the reduction exercise the Housing Corporation is proposing to eliminate the internal audit function. The two audit positions will be re-employed within the NWT audit bureau. Committee members expressed concern about the reduction and noted that one of the key findings from the Auditor General’s report was the lack of effective monitoring and evaluation of its operations. Members noted that the loss of this function diminishes the capacity of the corporation and the LHOs to carry out these important functions. The Minister and his officials indicated that the reorganization of the corporation would help to focus the operations on the continued improvement through monitoring.

Reporting to the staff training committee. Members are prepared to accept this approach but to see some significant results and improvement in the future through regular updates to the committee.

Mr. Chair, I’d like to pass this along to the EDI chairman. Thank you.

Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Mr. Jacobson. Committee members expressed serious concerns with the proposed reduction to the homeownership repair program. Members noted that the reduction would impact the number of low-

to moderate-income families being able to afford necessary repairs.

As community housing stocks increased through programs such as the Affordable Housing Initiative, repair programs are critical to maintaining the value of the housing stock and avoiding larger repair and replacement expenditures in the future. Members recognize that the corporation is committed to maintaining repair programs for seniors and persons with disabilities and supports their efforts.

Interruption.

Mr. Ramsay, would you continue.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Some Members raised the issue of the use of bundled contracts by the Housing Corporation. These contracts usually involve the supply, transportation and construction of housing units as part of the bids. Members indicated that this process has the potential to favour larger companies, as smaller contractors do not necessarily have the capacity to meet all of the requirements of the tender. Members suggest that the corporation consider breaking out the contracts to allow local contractors to bid on a portion of the required work.

The support of these programs is the transitional step into the homeownership program, whereby assistance is provided through a lease on a Housing Corporation home. After completing a successful two-year lease period, the tenant is expected to transition into owning the unit.

Committee members were concerned that if tenants did not want to move into a homeownership position or were unable to take on the responsibility, the units then could become additional public housing units by default. This could then drive up operations and maintenance costs for public housing stock at a time when the resources to support this work are diminishing. Members request regular updates on this program in order to monitor results.

Seniors living in public housing pay no rent, utilities or maintenance costs regardless of their income. There are currently 400 units assigned to seniors’ housing across the NWT. In many cases seniors living in these units have the financial means to either pay market rent or contribute to the cost of utilities for their units. Members questioned whether it was fair for a program of last resort like public housing to have a segment of the population that is not subject to the same means testing as the rest of the program’s client base. Committee members believe there is a need to strike a balance between respecting the contributions made by our elders and the financial constraints facing the social housing system.

Members also identified the need for a coordinated approach around the delivery of programs that would encourage seniors to stay in their own homes. Committee members suggest the NWT Housing Corporation along with ECE and Health and Social Services work together to provide a more focused approach to housing supports for seniors.

Mr.

Chairman, this concludes the committee’s

opening comments on the Main Estimates for the NWT Housing Corporation, 2008–2009. Individual Members may have additional comments and questions as we proceed. Mahsi.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. At this time I’d like to ask the Minister Responsible for the Housing Corporation if he will be bringing in any witnesses. Mr. Miltenberger.

Yes, Mr. Chair.

Does committee agree that the Minister brings in his witnesses?

Sergeant-at-Arms, escort the witnesses in. For the record, Mr. Minister, could you introduce your witnesses?

Thank you,

Mr. Chairman. I have with me the president, Jeff Polakoff, and the vice-president, Jeff Anderson.

Welcome, witnesses. General comments in regard to the NWT Housing Corporation. Mr. Menicoche.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Like I

said in my Member’s statement at the

beginning of today’s proceedings, I’ve got six small communities in my riding, and we’ve got many, many housing issues. Every time I travel to the communities, my constituents come to me, and they’re concerned about their program or if they’re being approved or about their housing and home repairs and even the condition of the homes. There are mould issues; there are construction issues.

The way I see it is that what they’re actually doing is that, because they’re not getting satisfactory answers from the Housing Corporation, they’re actually approaching me and appealing their needs because they aren’t being heard. I convey those issues to the housing department, and I’m sure the Minister can attest that he’s got many, many inquiries from my office to his on many, many follow-up issues. The latest is seniors being delayed by over a year in the delivery of their repair program. In fact, they had to move out of their home for almost a year.

To me, one of the solutions is about getting an appeal-type system, something independent. I’ve

conveyed this time and time again, Mr. Chair, that the constituents and the Housing Corporation clients are not satisfied with their answers. They’re appealing to the district office, to the people that told them no, so they’re going to get the same answer. That continues to happen. There’s no appeal system, no independent appeal system.

I think that one of the examples that constituents talk about is the ECE system — Education, Culture and Employment system — where they have an independent appeal system. When a client is written a letter, even if it’s a negative letter…. Sometimes approvals do happen in our government, so it’s not always a negative. But in any of the correspondence of the clients, at the bottom of the letter….

Interruption.

At the bottom of these letters there’s an actual paragraph that says that if you’re not satisfied, here is the appeal system that’s involved in ECE. Here’s who you can contact. You’ve got only so many days to contact them in order to launch your appeal, and it must be in writing.

But with the Housing Corporation — at least, the last letter I looked at — it just said: please be advised that your application was received, and due to your particulars you’ve been refused for the program.

It’s not only appealing a negative letter, Mr. Chair. There are also issues with people being previously in arrears. It’s well known that we’ve had many, many clients in arrears. What’s happening there is that the arrears are based on…. And they’re very old too. One should ask that question — how old the arrears are — but they stem back sometimes even up to ten years or more. It’s because clients at that time weren’t satisfied with the product. They didn’t sign any agreements, and they disputed the type of work, the level of work, that had occurred.

So that issue is ten years old, and today their need is that their house is getting worn down. It needs repairs; it needs some new shingles; it needs some exterior work done. A lot of it is interior work as well. But as soon as they approach the Housing Corporation, because of our new guidelines and procedures, they’re denied any assistance because they’ve got existing arrears — and rightly so. If somebody did make a commitment to make a repayment because of a program or loan and they stopped paying it — and in this case it’s certainly a clear violation of an agreement, where someone is not doing their part — it should be subject to some kind of penalty, and that’s certainly the case.

But in the Housing Corporation’s case, Mr. Chair, I think that if you look back at some of the disputed things, they just kind of sat on the books. They

were never really addressed, so people aren’t satisfied and they’re not making payments. They say: I’m not paying until this is resolved.

I think that an appeal system, as well, will help sort this out, because the denial levels are coming and it’s clear that they’ve got arrears. The Housing Corporation keeps saying no, they’re not entitled because they’re in arrears. But if we try to work backwards and try to resolve these arrears….

For a lot of it the Housing Corporation does have to take the blame. A lot of the constituents I speak to in this particular area are saying they don’t think they got full value of, for example, a $20,000 repair program that they’re entitled to, to repay. But now the Corporation is saying that it’s now $25,000 of arrears. They have shown some flexibility there, Mr. Chair. They wanted to roll it into any new repair program, but constituents and clients are saying: “Well, look, I wasn’t happy with $20,000 worth of work; I think there was only $10,000 worth of repairs” — which is true, in many cases. If you research it, many programs got started, but they never finished because of contractors not finishing their work previously, or else they weren’t qualified or they just left the smaller communities altogether.

I think that if we work towards this appeal-type structure, it will go a long ways in addressing many, many of our concerns. For me, I’m getting frustrated enough. I like to do the old diamond jubilee kind of approach, where you just forgive everybody’s debts and say let’s get on to making new and affordable houses for everybody, and let’s start from scratch, because that seems to me the only way to do it.

But there are other ways — you know, restructuring the Housing Corporation to have this type of system in place where somebody can sit down with the Housing Corporation and have an open dialogue instead of just a door slam: Sorry, arrears; sorry, you’re left out. In one of my communities at least 80 per cent of the program clients are in arrears. That’s out of, I think, 100 homes. You’ve got 80 people in arrears, so 80 people who aren’t eligible for any programming. They’ve still got leaking roofs. They’ve still got lots of interior problems. There’s overcrowding there. They’re looking for additions to expand on the current living arrangements, exterior work — the siding and the windows and the doors. Well, the list can go on from there.

Addressing these issues is getting to one of the big core issues right now: how do we address the arrears, and how do clients and constituents appeal the existing circumstances there?

I’ll just end on that note, then. If the Minister can respond to that and what kind of strategy he thinks should happen here, or is there an existing strategy they’re using and are looking forward to

implementing to better the lives and the way constituents can use our housing programs?

The Minister Responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation, Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you,

Mr.

Chairman. I appreciate the Member’s

comments.

The issue and concern about the appeal process has been identified clearly by the Member as well as by the Office of the Auditor General. It’s been built into our framework for action. We’re planning on having a process ready that we can bring forward as we gather here in the fall.

Clearly, we have a number of other things to look at. Arrears, as the Member’s indicated, has been identified. We are doing an analysis of these arrears — some of them are quite dated — to take a look on a case-by-case basis to see how much, in fact, of that amount of money — $8 million, roughly — of rental arrears would be collectible, given whatever statutes of limitations may be there or whatever other legal impediments may be there to collect it.

While we’re not looking at an amnesty — as the Member’s indicated, a diamond jubilee approach — clearly, we are going to go through the amount owing. Just by that review, we’re going to come to a number that we think will tell us what is collectible given the age of some of the debt.

So we will be coming forward this fall with an appeal process. As we work through the list of arrears, we’re going to be coming forward to committee with that as well to show the dates and what we think is collectible in our opinion.

Next on my list I have Mr.

Hawkins, Mr.

Abernethy and Mr.

Jacobson.

Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just would like some overview on the Minister’s thoughts. I noticed some of the opening comments seemed to be missing some highlights where disabilities were concerned, from my point of view.

I have a number of constituents. From time to time they come forward, and they discuss the issue of housing, accessible housing, and the sense of what stock exists there. I’ve got constituents who just don’t have anywhere else to go. They’re waiting for opportunities that don’t exist.

I’m just curious what the Minister is doing about the situation, in light that it’s pretty thin in his opening remarks, as well as availability throughout the North. I’d like to hear what comments the Minister has regarding that.

Minister Miltenberger.