On another issue, as I mentioned in

my opening comments in regard to this department, we have to find a solution to the apprehension of children and find a way so we don’t have 620 kids in care. We have to find a way to work with the families, work with the communities and work with the children to find workable solutions in our communities. I think it’s important to realize that apprehending children is not the way to find solutions to these problems. We can blame the parent; we can blame the community; we can blame society in general. But at the bottom of it all, a lot of it has to do.... We can blame history in regard to residential schools. We can blame the world for alcohol and drug problems. But at the end of the day, these are problems that are not just unique to us. They’re something we have to find solutions to. A way I see to take hold of that is finding control mechanisms and finding systems in place so we work with community social workers, community bands, people on the Community Justice committees, groups like that, to find ways of looking at this through a different lens than we are today.

I’d just like to ask the Minister: are you open to some sort of working arrangement that, like in the legislation...? I asked questions when the legislation was being brought forward in the Child and Family Services Act, that communities have to be involved.... One of the things we were assured of at the time legislation was being passed was that there are going to be Plan of Care committees. Communities will have a say in regard to the Plan of Care orders that are going to be issued. There will be an opportunity for people who have these orders placed on them to have a system in which they are being heard by their leaders.

I’d like to ask the Minister: exactly what is her department doing to ensure these Plan of Care committees are working? As far as I understand, talking to the only community in the Northwest Territories that has implemented it, they haven’t had any support whatsoever from your office out of Inuvik, in regard to Inuvik health board; there hasn’t been any attempt to work with them to basically give them the tools they need to productively do their job. Again, they are being stymied by a system that basically does not want to download or upload powers and authorities to other community groups where the legislation clearly states that Plan of Care committees is part of the Child and Family Services Act. I’d like to ask the Minister: exactly how are you going to improve that relationship with the communities in regard to the Plan of Care committees in communities, which seem to have done a bad job to date?

I want to advise the Member that

I understand his commitment and passion on this issue. Department policies have been developed, and it’s working. The changes to the legislation also reflect the department’s focus on keeping the children in families as much as possible, in extended family and community, wherever possible.

The statistics show that in, say, 1999, we only had about 30 to 40 children who were in families or extended care out of what were, I’m sure, as many as we have now — I mean, out of the total number. This past year we have 630 children in care, and almost 400 of them, NWT-wide, are within either the families — with some sort of agreement with the department as to the actions they have to take — or extended families. I think we need to recognize that we’ve gone a long way in following the principle of keeping our children in their families and extended families as much as possible.

Now, with respect to Plan of Care, these are new changes to the law, and it’s the only one in Canada, so we are sort of developing our work as we go forward. There are no other models to follow.

That new provision is not being implemented by authorities. It’s the work of department headquarters and the shop of the director of Children and Family Services. He has been to communities, providing workshops on how to set up that Plan of Care committee.

I do agree with the Member that we’re not moving on that as fast as possible or as numerously as possible, because we do not have those Plan of Care committees set up in a lot of communities. But it’s one that I would like to see happening, and it’s one that, in talking to department officials, they’re committed to providing as well.

When I

attended the NWT Foster Family

Association, I encouraged all the foster families to

talk to.... A lot of them are from communities, and they’re aboriginal foster parents from communities. I’ve asked them to help me and to work with the leadership, to make sure we have Plan of Care committees set up in as many communities as possible, because it’s an avenue for communities to get involved in the welfare of the children that are in care.

Thank you, Minister

Lee. Moving on to Mr. Abernethy.

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. In my

comments yesterday, I

talked about how the

Premier’s statement made reference that there’s going to be a one-time $1.8 million investment for on-the-job Community Health Nurse Development training programs and expansion of the nurse practitioner program.

Now, both sound really good to me, but I was having trouble reconciling the two, from the Premier’s statement, to the fact that the department is eliminating the full-time leave program for nurse practitioner education, as well as reducing the number of seats in the Community Health Nurse Development Program. So the two don’t seem to be consistent with the Premier’s statement.

First, about the nurse practitioner program. I applaud the department’s commitment to the nurse practitioners. Clearly, there’s a significant amount of value to integrating nurse practitioners into the system. But by cutting the NP education leave program — and the fact that Aurora College no longer delivers the nurse practitioner program, due to low enrolment — how does the department intend to live up to its commitment, in light of these reductions, to train and prepare nurse practitioners for the delivery of NP services in the Northwest Territories, with a primary focus on maximizing northern employment?

Thank you,

Mr. Abernethy. Minister Lee.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

I could assure the Member that the reductions being proposed are more than compensated for by new investments we’re making. As the Premier stated in his budget statement, there’s a $1.8 million new initiative, and most of the money is coming from THAF. It’s going to enhance the NP programming we have and the opportunities we can give to the NPs.

Just so I understand, it sounds to

me — and I may misunderstand this, so feel free to correct me if I’m wrong — like you’re eliminating the departmental commitment, or the previous departmental investment, and you’re now going to rely on the staff funding — which, I understand, ends in a couple years — to enhance nurse

practitioner training, which I suppose is all right as long as the training continues to go.

But I do still wonder how, in fact, this department intends to invest in nurse practitioners and train nurse practitioners, given that the primary delivery agent in the Northwest Territories is history: it doesn’t deliver the nurse practitioner program, due to low enrolments. So how does the department intend to use this THAF funding to enhance the training of nurse practitioners in the Northwest Territories?

Could I ask the deputy minister

to provide that information.

Thank you,

Minister Lee. Mr. Cummings.

My initial questions are about the

nurse practitioner one. When I get some answers there, I have some on the CHN. So my first one is specific to the nurse practitioner program, and it’s related to the fact that you’re investing this $1.8

million THAF fund to train the nurse

practitioners, yet you got rid of the nurse practitioner education leave program, and Aurora College doesn’t deliver the nurse practitioner program.

Like I said, I’m happy with your commitment to support nurse practitioners. I’m just not sure how you’re going to be doing this. I’m confused a little bit, and trying to reconcile what appears to be here with the Premier’s statements about investing the $1.8 million in. So just some clarity.

Does that mean that the Nurse

Practitioner Education Leave Bursary program still exists, although now it’s funded by THAF? Or does

that mean you’re looking for other alternatives to train nurse practitioners?

You’ve mentioned an ability, or willingness, to take as many as you can accommodate. Given our history with Stanton, do you have an idea of how you’re going to start placing the nurse practitioners? And when you say as many numbers as you can accommodate, do you have some idea of how many nurse practitioners that may be?

I understand that that bursary

program still exists — it’s just reduced — and it still meets the level of demand or interest that has been shown in the past.

So what are you going to be using

this THAF money for? To help develop nurse practitioners?

Mr. Chairman, the information

I have is that the money will be used to provide nursing staff in smaller communities, as well as expanding nurse practitioner services in communities.

I’m not sure what that means. I’m

not sure how you’re planning to train these individuals. I’d like some information on that.

I think that’s great. I think the

PLAR process is an important one and certainly an avenue to help some of our nurses get to the level of NP. It’s good to hear that that’s where some of the money’s going and we’ll be continuing to invest in our current nurses who wish to upgrade to nurse practitioners.

I want to drop back to the Community Health Nurse Development Program. As I indicated before, there was specific reference in the Premier’s statement to enhancing the Community Health Nurse Development Program, but based on the reductions, it looks like you’re cutting the program by four positions.

Given the importance of the community health nurses and our desire to maximize northern employment and give northern nurses an opportunity to transition from a more hospital-based

setting into a community-based setting — where our real demands and our real challenges lie — I’m not sure how I

can reconcile the Premier’s

statement to the departmental cuts in light of maximizing northern employment and supporting the development of nurses for community health roles. If you can help me understand that, that would be great.

Thank you,

Mr.

Cummings. I’d like to move on now to

Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If I may

seek some clarity on the Nurse Practitioner Program that we started: I don’t think I received a full answer in regard to how many we train. It may have been picked up somewhere else through another person’s question. My question specifically — and even if it’s for my own benefit, that is, Mr. Chairman — is: does the Minister know how many nurse practitioners we continue to train, and how many we have positions available for? The reason I’m asking it in that way is.... Are we training more nurse practitioners than we have positions available for?

Thank you,

Mr. Hawkins. Minister Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As of

May 2008, we have 24.5 funded positions and two unfunded positions for nurse practitioners.

Currently, out of those, 11 funded NP positions are filled, plus two unfunded. So out of 26.5 NP positions available, we have 14 positions filled. Seven of them are in Yellowknife, one is in

Resolution, one is in Smith, and two are in Fort Providence.

There are two unfunded positions at Stanton, as Members are aware, that we have funded for six months. And there is half PY funding being used for NP relief in Yellowknife.

Mr. Chairman, I could also add that there are 12 NP positions vacant all over the Territories: there are four in Beaufort-Delta, one in Fort Liard, one in Fort Smith, two in Hay River, two in Norman Wells and three in Tlicho. Obviously, we have room here to recruit and retain NPs.

I don’t have information on exactly how many NPs are in practice and in training, because we will take NPs trained not only in the North but anywhere. If they are willing to go to any of these communities, we will welcome them wholeheartedly. And really, they are meant for a primary-care community clinic setting.