This is page numbers 3779 - 3806 of the Hansard for the 16th Assembly, 4th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was nwt.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Final supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, what are the outstanding financial risks to the Government of the Northwest Territories and what is it going to cost the Deh Cho Bridge Corporation to get out of its contractual obligations with Atcon? Thank you.

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

The Member knows full well that we don’t have that information at this time. We would expect the cost, any kind of termination fees would include work that was done up to this date on this portion and this phase of the contract and some profit margins also. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, Mr. Beaulieu.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, earlier today I spoke about the CMHC declining fund for the 2,200-or-so public housing units we have across the Territories. Now I have questions for the Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation.

Mr. Speaker, can the Minister tell us if the NWT Housing Corporation has developed a strategy to address the CMHC declining fund? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. The honourable Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation, Mr. Robert McLeod.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, recognizing the fact that we are losing money every year through the CMHC declining funding, Housing has started the process of identifying ways that we could cut back in our O and M and that’s part of the strategy. We are working on a 20-year capital needs assessment and we’re looking at retrofitting a lot of the units so that they are, we can get a longer life span out of them and we’re also looking at going to a lot of multiplex-type designs, which are less costly to maintain. We recognize the fact that we are declining and it is a great concern to the Housing Corporation. So we are taking steps to address this and meanwhile continuing to lobby the federal government to try and keep the money flowing and seeing what we can do, working with our partners in Nunavut and the Yukon, in addressing this issue with the federal government. Thank you.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Mr. Speaker, those are good objectives. I see that the objectives are mostly pertaining to the current inventory. Can the Minister advise me if he has anything in place in the area pertaining to the transfer of any of the public housing units to its clientele? Thank you.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Mr. Speaker, we’re always looking at ways to sell some of the units to clientele. Over the years I think we’ve sold probably in the neighbourhood of 49. We have 63 that we’ve identified that could be for sale. However, we need to make sure that they have the means to maintain these units, because the last thing that we would like to see is transferring some of these units over to clients who are unable to maintain them and then they in turn would come back to the corporation for funding. That’s what we need to make sure we get away from and not set them up for failure. Thank you.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Mr. Speaker, I realize that it would take some money to continue to operate a house. It may be easier if there was no mortgage attached to it. Can the Minister tell me, just on a

little bit of a different note, what resources have been allocated to achieve these objectives of addressing the CMHC declining fund? Thank you.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Well, our budget has gone up each year, recognizing the fact, again, that the money is declining and, as I pointed out to the Member in response to the first question, we are taking steps to try and cut back on the O and M part of it by improving the quality of our units, so we’d have less O and M funding. As far as the resources go, we are seeing a small increase just about every year, but it’s not quite enough to deal with the money we will be losing. I mean, to date, I think we’ve been out $5.8 million, but by the time the money actually declines I think we’re going to be out $348 million in O and M funding. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Final supplementary, Mr. Beaulieu.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can the Minister outline for us any initiatives that involve the local housing organizations in the sense that have they engaged the local housing organizations in this initiative?

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Mr. Speaker, we’re always engaging with the local housing organizations and listening to what they have, because a lot of them know best what goes on in their community. I mean, they’ve identified some units that they can move and also improving the operation and maintenance of each unit, trying to cut back on the costs. So we are working quite closely with a lot of the LHOs and the district offices to identify ways where we can make some savings, again recognizing the fact that unless we get a change of heart from the federal government, we’re going to continue to have declining funding each and every year. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Menicoche.

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I just want to follow up on my Member’s statement. I indicated my support for treaty rights to be recognized by our government in terms of hunting caribou in the banned zone and the Bathurst herd. I don’t think anybody wants to see a return to the levels of harvest that had happened, but there is a question of subsistence hunting. I would like to ask the Minister about that. Will he consider subsistence hunting? I’m not talking about lifting the entire ban in this hunting zone, but allowing subsistence harvesting to our treaty people in those areas. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you. The honourable Minister of Environment and Natural Resources, Mr. Miltenberger.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The herd is in such significant decline that the information, all the science tells us that it cannot sustain any further harvest; that if we have any harvest, there’s a good chance that it will cease to exist as a herd within the next couple of years. We, as well, recognize treaty rights and rights to harvest, and we have come up with funds and resources and an opportunity to work with the Tlicho and the Yellowknives and the Akaitcho, that they can harvest outside. The Bluenose-East and the Ahiak can sustain some controlled harvest that will allow us to make sure that the affected communities have some access. We’ve also adjusted the bison tags to give more access there. But the herd, the reason it’s being protected is because it is our opinion and judgment, based on the extensive work done, it cannot sustain any harvest without jeopardizing its survival. Thank you.

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Yesterday I spoke about an opportunity for consultation at the meetings in Fort Simpson. There was missed opportunity. Has the Minister met with the impacted First Nations’ groups this week at all, or does he plan to meet with them at all to discuss the very, very important issue of treaty rights and subsistence harvesting for our aboriginal people? Because this ban, this law will put our aboriginal people in jail and that’s not what we’re looking for, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, the ban will protect the herd. There is opportunity to harvest outside the banned area that will allow the subsistence hunting, to allow communities to have access to caribou. I would point out that in the whole North Slave region there is the area where there is the ban, everywhere else there’s hunting only for aboriginal people. The focus is to protect and to keep the survival of the herd. We recognize and we can accommodate the issue of the hunting and access with the arrangements and resources that we have offered up. There have been, and continue to be, extensive meetings being held. There are meetings all this week going on in the Tlicho. We provided committee yesterday with a detailed briefing and a list of all the meetings that were held. I met as recently as last Friday with Grand Chief Bill Erasmus and the Yellowknives and a couple dozen of their members as well. Thank you.

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Does the Minister plan to meet with the Yellowknives or any of the impacted First Nations’ groups in the near future, today or tomorrow or the weekends coming, like, as soon as possible? Because this is a very controversial issue and impacts not only those First Nations but the precedent that it sets for all First Nations across our Territory. Thank you.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I indicated I met last Friday for two hours with Chief

Bill Erasmus and Chief Tsetta and Chief Sangris and a roomful of their members. I’ve had discussions with the Member for Weledeh. He is meeting or has met with the chiefs and I’ve committed that we will… He’s asked if I will meet with the chiefs. I’ve indicated as soon as we can arrange the time that we will. We’re prepared to do that, myself and the deputy, to have any further discussions to look at how do we preserve the purpose of the ban, protect the herd and continue to work with the impacted communities so that they have access to some subsistence hunting. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Your final supplementary, Mr. Menicoche.

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. In all cases of reduced populations, maybe be it fisheries, treaty rights are always upheld. In this case, I’d like to ask the Minister not to lift the ban but to allow treaty people to hunt at a subsistence level at a minimal cost to the herd, but at least continue their treaty right to hunt and fish on our land. Thank you.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

We have committed and are working with the Tlicho and we are prepared to work with the Yellowknives to make sure that they have access to subsistence hunting. We have not said you can’t hunt caribou. We have not said that we are taking away that right to hunt. What we are saying in this very broad area is that there is a herd in the middle, the Bathurst herd, which its numbers have diminished so dramatically that they cannot stand harvesting or they will cease to exist. There are other opportunities. We are working with communities to say we can continue to have subsistence harvest in those areas while still doing what everybody wants, which is protect the future of the herd. Thank you.