This is page numbers 3779 - 3806 of the Hansard for the 16th Assembly, 4th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was nwt.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am convinced that the Minister has faced this decision, the Minister of Environment and Natural Resources, for a hunting ban of caribou on careful and thorough consideration of the information available on the caribou. However, my understanding is that there was only one meeting with the Yellowknives Dene First Nation, a meeting on the 1st of December, in which the Yellowknives Dene expressed disagreement with the ban. I am also aware that, in contrast, there were repeated meetings with the Tlicho and, of course, the Wekeezhii Renewable Resource Board through the same time frame and earlier. Relying on the Wekeezhii Renewable Resource Board process and timetables does not honour the Yellowknives

Dene rights to consultation and involvement and decision making.

Given that this is an area where, in the chief drawing in each territory, there is no co-management board and you would think there would, therefore, be a focus of consultations with that particular group of people, why was there not a focus on meaningful consultation with the Yellowknives Dene so they could have a partnership in the development of these restrictions? Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. The honourable Minister of Environment and Natural Resources, Mr. Miltenberger.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There were, in October for example, open group meetings that the Yellowknives were invited to but did not attend. There were meetings that we did have at the regional leaders’ meetings. As well, we did have a discussion about the caribou and we have to separate two issues here. The issue -- and we recognize it and I acknowledged that in one of my previous replies -- is that the Wekeezhii process is critical but that is only part of the process to look at an overall management plan for the Bathurst herd, as the Member well knows. We have to consult fully with the Akaitcho, the Yellowknives, the Northwest Territories Metis Nation and other stakeholders as well as the aboriginal governments. In the case of this emergency interim measures, there was a very compressed time frame. We did a lot of work and then we shared the whole list of work that was done with the Members, trying to consult as much as possible about the need for an interim ban because of the slippage in the process set out by the Wekeezhii board. We believe that we could stand the test set out by Sparrow about our…have we hit the right criteria and have we done the right things to respond to his very specific short-term emergency measures. Thank you.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, given that there is no land claim settlement or binding co-management process with the Yellowknives Dene First Nation Chief Drygeese region and that the Yellowknives Dene stated its opposition before the ban was announced, what authority does GNWT have to implement this ban? Thank you.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

The enabling authority would come under the Northwest Territories Act. Two sections come to mind, 16 and 18 with subsequent amendments to 18, as well as the Wildlife Act which flows under the Northwest Territories Act. Thank you.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, when the GNWT assumed responsibility for the management of this herd, they inherited from aboriginal residents a healthy population of caribou. Yet, over the last 20 years we have seen this catastrophic decline and

its management practices and efforts have failed. The Yellowknives Dene have indicated that if the situation requires, they would reduce their harvest to one caribou per person, say per hunter, per year. So they are ready and willing to engage and apply their authority to conserve caribou. Did the government try to bring them into the determination of hunting restrictions in an engaged, authoritative and responsible partner? Mahsi.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, we worked with the Yellowknives to look at the issue of...because there wasn’t going to be the report, the Wekeezhii report, or any other plan for the harvest restrictions which we announced back in late September were going to needed because of the draconian drop in numbers, that we would need to be put those restrictions in place. We have worked with them. The issue of the ban, the focus has been the need for the ban and what mitigating measures and accommodating measures we can put in place to offset the lack of access to this specific area recognizing that there was still an ability to subsistence hunt to the east and to the west of the no-hunting zone. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Final supplementary, Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would suggest that had there been meaningful engagement, the Yellowknives Dene have the authority and would have been a meaningful partner in implementing the action required. My final question is: what plans does the government have for coming out of this ban with a new and even revolutionary approach to ensuring future cooperation that is effective and prevents such new confrontations? Mahsi.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

I would be interested in the Member’s definition of a revolutionary approach before I could answer fully that specific question, but I can indicate to the Member that we have already started the discussions and the planning to bring together the chairs of the co-management boards and representatives where there are no co-management boards to look at the overlap areas, to look at, as we pointed out yesterday in our presentation, the decline of herds all across the Northwest Territories and how do we come to an understanding similar to what’s being attempted with the Porcupine Caribou herd, some understanding between all the government parties and signatories as to the steps to be taken when numbers are in decline and what response does a decline require when a certain point is hit. For example, the Porcupine Caribou Harvest Management Plan has a trigger of 45,000 animals and it is a similar size right now to what the Bathurst was in 2006. If it hits 45,000, the automatic trigger is there’s no hunting for anybody of any of

the Porcupine herd. That has been negotiated and has been worked on now for many years. We have to come to those kinds of understanding among ourselves, because there’s a significant overlap of almost every herd. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is being directed to the Premier because I think we’re going to have to have a political decision or political involvement especially from the Executive Council to resolve the outstanding issue in Tsiigehtchic of not having a health provider. I think we’re going on seven years now, yet this has been raised by previous Ministers, it’s been raised by Gwich’in assemblies, it’s been raised at the Beaufort Leaders’ Meeting, motions have been passed. I think, Mr. Speaker, there is a time and place to end the discussion and find a solution to the problem.

Mr. Speaker, I think it’s the fundamental basic rights with regard to services for people regardless of whether it’s justice programs, health care programs or housing. We have to ensure that we have basic services being provided. Could the Premier personally intervene for promising a nurse for Tsiigehtchic? I was promised, prior to this House, that there was one going to be there February 1st . I

told the chief in Tsiigehtchic that. I told the community at the previous Beaufort Leaders’ Meeting. The Minister stated she’s still working on it. So I’d like to ask the Premier if he would personally intervene with his Cabinet colleagues to find a solution to this problem, so we can see a nurse in Tsiigehtchic February 1st .

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Honourable Premier, Mr. Roland.

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Premier

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I know the concern for the Member. It’s been raised, whether it is in this forum here in the Assembly or to provide services, necessary services in the community of Tsiigehtchic. Thank you.

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. I believe we spend some $300 million on health care in the Northwest Territories. We give those dollars to health authorities to manage on behalf of this government to provide programs and services for people. If they are not doing that, this government has to find a mechanism. If health care services are not being provided to those communities, that those dollars earmarked for those communities be clawed back by the Executive Council and directly administered

through the Executive Council to those communities and bypass the health board, because they are not doing their job in regard to the residents of Tsiigehtchic.

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Premier

Thank you. There definitely is opportunity. The Member himself has raised earlier in his line of questions the meetings that are held with the Beaufort-Delta leaders and the Gwich’in leaders around the services. The Department of Health and Social Services is in attendance along with representatives of the Beaufort-Delta Health and Social Services Authority and we would work with that leadership to see what can be done. The area board authority is one that this government has tried to address through an initiative of board reform. That met with significant resistance of members in the public. So we pulled that back. We know the area of health services authorities, for example, there needs to be a newly established relationship with the authorities across the Northwest Territories.

The Minister of Health and Social Services has come forward to the standing committee and the Assembly and I believe during her opportunity with the budget talking about the Foundation for Change and looking at how we will try to reinvigorate our relationship with boards across the Northwest Territories. If we feel there is and if the Minister feels there is enough that has occurred that we can move to remove a board and put in a representative of the department to run the operations in that region, that is something that can also be taken into consideration, but that decision is not taken lightly. Thank you.

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

I request the Premier to do an audit on the Inuvik health board dealing with the community of Tsiigehtchic from the information that was provided by the Minister in which in one year they made 20 visits and they were there for 120 hours. For me, that’s unacceptable. I’d like to know from the Premier if he can tell me exactly how many dollars are being expended on the health operations in the community of Tsiigehtchic out of that $300 million that we’ve spent on behalf of this government, how much is really being spent in communities and not operating a health board, which goes in a deficit every year, year after year after year and using dollars that should be expended in our communities for health care services and not being expended where it shouldn’t? Thank you.

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Premier

Thank you. I will speak to the Minister of Health and Social Services. With that request, of course that requires us to work with the authority in place as they would have that type of information when it comes to the dollars that are allocated, what was spent and how it was done, but I do know that the hours that the Member talked about was doctor visits in the community. There

were, during the breakup seasons of the winter road and community visits by nurses, in the neighbourhood of almost 100 days of nurse time in the community. But I’ll get the appropriate information and see what we can do on that basis. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Your final supplementary, Mr. Krutko.

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I believe this does demand a political resolution. It has to be resolved by this Cabinet. I’d like to ask the Premier to maybe have this on his Cabinet agenda for tomorrow morning’s Cabinet meeting. Hopefully he can look deeper into this, because I believe this is not the only community that’s under this type of threat by way of not having services being provided. There are other communities throughout the Territories that find themselves in similar situations. So with that, Mr. Speaker, I look forward to hearing the Premier’s response with his Cabinet colleagues and hopefully find a resolution to this. Thank you.

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Premier

Thank you. One of the things we do on a daily basis while we’re in session is talk about the issues that have arisen from question period and look at what is required to either get information or deal with the issue. This, the request for the type of information the Member has asked, is not going to be dealt with in a matter of days. It’s going to take some time to get all of that information. As well, the Member has raised there needs to be a comparison done to communities of similar size remote communities as to how we’ve delivered that service. We know, Mr. Speaker, the issue of health care, justice, education, all of those services in our smaller communities are a matter of concern that is raised and that is why we’ve put together in working with Members on the Rural Remote Communities Initiative. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland. The honourable Member for Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I also want to raise some concerns with our health board, as Mr. Krutko has just talked about one of his communities. Mr. Speaker, in the last couple of weeks, actually the last couple of days and even this morning I received a phone call from one of my constituents and they were having some serious concerns in regard to the operation of our health board in terms of the professionalism that the staff at our regional health board has towards some of our residents in the Sahtu. I wanted to ask the Minister in terms of a type of review or look at some of these types of concerns that our residents are

raising now in regard to our own health board. Is there a type of mechanism to look at the performance evaluation audits to see where we can head off some of these critical issues that are affecting the health care in our region?

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. The honourable Minister responsible for Health and Social Services, Ms. Lee.