This is page numbers 5159 - 5190 of the Hansard for the 16th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was communities.

The House met at 1:42 p.m.

---Prayer

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Good afternoon, colleagues. Welcome back to the Chamber.

Colleagues, I would like to take this opportunity to recognize and commend one of our own at the Legislative Assembly.

Security supervisor Ray Jahner was honoured recently by the Yellowknife Association for Community Living for his commitment and support for persons with disabilities in the workplace.

---Applause

Mr. Jahner’s helpful and friendly attitude was noted and much appreciated by the members of the Skills Training and Community Inclusion Program, whose work brings them regularly to the Assembly.

Mr Jahner is taking a two-month leave of absence effective tomorrow, to help care for his grandson. We hope you enjoy that time, Ray, and look forward to your return in December.

On behalf of all Members, please accept our congratulations.

---Applause

Orders of the day. Item 2, Ministers’ statements. The honourable Minister of Justice, Mr. Lafferty.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Minister of Justice

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I would like to provide an update to the Legislative Assembly on Not Us, the Government of the Northwest Territories anti-drug campaign.

Addictions and the crimes they lead to have serious life consequences. This government has a focus on prevention by promoting healthy choices and lifestyles, and the role of personal and family responsibility. The Not Us campaign is unique. It’s community-based, so it’s different everywhere. We don’t tell people how it’s going to be. They tell us how it’s going to be. There’s no right or wrong way to fight addictions in your community. It’s all about

local control and innovation. Residents know what they need.

Mr. Speaker, on September 29th the town of Inuvik

kicked off its Not Us campaign with a community feast in partnership with the schools. Their program focuses on youth and family. They’re having family nights and traditional activities. It’s a community approach through partnerships with local groups and concerned citizens. Nobody can do it all, but together we can make a difference. It evolves through work with the communities, respects local priorities, and promotes local role models.

Inuvik is the newest Not Us community. Over the summer we held a Not Us event at the regional justice conference in Fort McPherson. People from all eight Beaufort-Delta communities were there. We talked about drugs and what communities could do to support their own people. Sports groups in several communities have proudly worn Not Us gear to promote drug-free, healthy lifestyles. And we’re continuing to support Hay River, our launch community. They have evening activities, drug-free-community signs, and partnerships to keep their program strong.

Mr. Speaker, we’ve also had interest from Colville Lake, Behchoko, Tuktoyaktuk, the francophone school board, Fort Smith, Tulita, Fort Providence, Lutselk’e and Yellowknife. We look forward to working with these communities and others who want to develop their own campaigns to deal with drugs. We’re partnering wherever it makes sense to support a consistent message: Not our Territory.

This campaign is part of the Healthy Choices Framework, and partnerships have always been a key to its success. Not Us can only work when local people decide it’s the right thing for them. We help with the issues that are important locally. In some places, that’s alcohol. In others, residents want to talk seriously about hard drugs like crystal meth, crack and ecstasy. Wherever we go, we work with families, communities and schools to improve the physical and mental well-being of our youth. We encourage people to find common sense solutions that will work in the long term. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. The honourable Premier, Mr. Roland.

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Premier

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I wish to advise Members that the Honourable Sandy Lee will be absent from the House today and tomorrow to attend to a personal family matter. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Item 3, Members’ statements. The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My statement today focuses on the priority of ensuring that students graduated from Grade 12 but without the course credits they need to pursue their chosen careers are receiving the assistance they require. Too many times I hear the story of students who have worked hard and graduated with high school diplomas, only to find they are lacking the types of course credits necessary to enter specific post-secondary programs.

While our school counselling services work hard to advise students throughout high school, these stories often contain the statement, “If only I’d known.” Students who achieve Grade 12 lacking necessary course credits -- usually it’s the sciences and maths -- are then stalled by the need to do upgrading to enter some programs. Unfortunately, they sometimes give up.

Statistics show the need to deliver course-qualified students to post-secondary education is crucial. Students with a trade or post-secondary education are six times more likely to be working than students without post-secondary.

I am aware that the Minister is working on this through the aboriginal student and community initiatives, including improved counselling. But, meanwhile, we have a legacy of people with Grade 12 diplomas that are insufficient to enable access to post-secondary programs. We cannot leave these people hanging.

I am told there aren’t enough student financial assistance resources for the stranded graduates who face the costs of upgrading their education. The department must recognize this exceptional demand and government’s responsibility for this situation with an identified and larger support fund and outreach program to assist these students in upgrading and going on to post-secondary education. To this end, Mr. Speaker, I will be asking the Minister questions on these matters later today. Mahsi.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Abernethy.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. From time to time Members on this side of the House don’t feel that we’ve been necessarily heard or listened to by Cabinet. Fortunately, this isn’t always the case. Last year I asked the Minister responsible for ITI some questions and I made a statement on convention support. Today I’m happy to thank the Minister for listening to what I had to say.

During that Member’s statement and those questions, I asked the Minister to provide some awareness or create a greater awareness of convention capacity in the Northwest Territories, but also to provide some financial support.

I’m happy to say that the Minister has come out with, or has facilitated, the creation of a meeting and conference planner for 2011. It’s quite a good document. I’ve gone through it and I’ve read it page by page. I do feel the department has given a bit of a conservative estimate of the conference size capacity that can be facilitated in each community. Hopefully in future editions we’ll expand that a little bit.

I’m also happy to see that we have made specific reference to the capacity in Yellowknife, Inuvik, Hay River, Fort Simpson and Norman Wells, so we’re not focusing just on Yellowknife. I do feel that in future editions we can probably expand that to include some conferences in lodges and some of the other smaller communities in the Northwest Territories.

Over the last couple of years we’ve lost over $20 million in business travel and meetings in the Northwest Territories. There is still significant opportunity to expand on this. In my statement last year, in addition to asking to create some awareness of conference capacity, I asked the Minister to provide some moderate financial rewards to NWT-based associations when they convince their national or international counterparts to come to the NWT for their annual conferences or AGMs. This is still a great opportunity for both local associations and the NWT. With an incentive like this in place, I believe that many local associations would be happy and willing to begin campaigning their national and international bodies to come to the Northwest Territories for their annual meetings and conferences.

Later this afternoon I will be asking the Minister responsible for ITI some questions on this topic and seeking his commitment on this next step, which is to provide some financial incentive.

Once again, I would like to thank the Minister for putting together this conference planner. It’s great that we’re actually being heard from time to time.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Menicoche.

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to make a statement today about family violence shelters in the NWT. The five NWT shelters provide safety and support for women and children fleeing family violence. In some cases the shelters provide outreach programs for women and the children who have witnessed abuse programs in the communities. The five shelters are: Aimayunga Women and Emergency Foster Care Shelter in Tuktoyaktuk, Inuvik Transition House, Alison McAteer House in Yellowknife, Hay River Family Support Centre, and Sutherland House in Fort Smith.

These shelters have been assisted for the past four years with capacity building funding provided by the GNWT Department of Health and Social Services. For a relatively small amount of money -- $100,000 per year -- the directors of family violence shelters in the NWT have been able to meet regularly to look at and develop policies and procedures, share information, best practices, coordinate approaches for high-risk cases and situations. These meetings are scheduled when possible to take advantage of training opportunities or allow shelters outside of Yellowknife to participate in the Coalition Against Family Violence.

This funding has supported a variety of training efforts for staff. For instance, two shelter workers, one from Fort Smith and one from Yellowknife, are well on their way to achieving certificates in the Women’s Shelter Crisis Worker Program through Portage College’s distance education program.

This week, for the first time ever, the directors of family violence shelters from north of 60, from the Yukon, NWT, and Nunavut, are meeting in Yellowknife. This meeting was made possible through a grant from the Canadian Women’s Foundation.

I want to acknowledge the important work that staff of our family violence shelters performs for women and children in the NWT, as well as the board members of each of those organizations. I want to also acknowledge the support of this government, which is aiding shelters to maximize the collected resources and increase the quality of services for women and children in the NWT.

The capacity building funding enables our shelters to try to do more than just apply band-aids to the issue of family violence. Family violence shelters are a critical pillar in the broad range of services

that are required to prevent and address family violence. I certainly support any expansion into smaller communities and, once again, I applaud the efforts of all these organizations throughout the NWT.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, Mr. Beaulieu.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Mahsi cho, Mr. Speaker. [Translation] I’m speaking on behalf of Deninu K’ue [Translation ends]

...the highway into Fort Resolution. Since being elected, the community has let me know time and time again that the gravel section of this highway is in need of major repair.

As you may know, Highway No. 6 is the only way in and out of Fort Resolution. There is no air service and there are only two small stores. Many residents travel over 300 kilometres to and from Hay River on a regular basis to buy various items that cannot be purchased in Fort Resolution, and groceries.

[English translation not provided.]

And so, Mr. Speaker, time and time again I have made numerous statements and asked many questions about the highway. Mr. Speaker, it’s been three years since I first raised the issue. I am happy to say that the Department of Transportation has responded. Much has taken place with respect to Highway No. 6 work, including complete reconstruction and resurfacing of 22 kilometres into the community from Little Buffalo River.

Mr. Speaker, this is a huge benefit to the community. Many of the residents have cabins in the community and the community often holds little events at Buffalo River. Also, with the quarry work proposed on kilometre 72, more work will be created for the residents and businesses of Fort Resolution and this helps alleviate some of the pressures created by low employment rates in the community.

Mr. Speaker, I am happy to say that we are finally headed down the right road. With that, Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the residents of Fort Resolution, I would like to thank the Department of Transportation for listening to the people of Resolution, by committing to and making improvements to Highway No. 6. However, Mr. Speaker, this is only the beginning. We need to make sure that we continue the work until all of Highway No. 6 is completed to a chipseal state.

Later on today I will have questions for the Minister of Transportation. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Ms. Bisaro.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I hope it’s not news to the Members of this House that our NWT non-governmental organizations are invaluable to us. Since starting my job here three years ago, Mr. Speaker, I’ve advocated for the better treatment of NGOs, organizations who very capably provide services to our residents on behalf of this government.

Today I want to highlight a recent but alarming change in the practice of our government in regard to the relationship to NGOs.

Since the start of this fiscal year there’s been a move by the GNWT away from multi-year contracts with NGOs to one-year contracts. The strain that those single-year contracts put on the administrative staff of our NGOs is enormous. Yet, year after year it seems we require them to apply for the program funding on an annual basis, and when contracts are not signed on time, we ask them to continue to provide services without any guarantee of payment because there’s no contract in place. It creates cash flow problems for the organization and it creates uncertainty for NGO staff and the organization’s staffing requirements.

About a year ago I sensed some willingness on the part of the government to change this situation. I sensed some improvement in the relationships with NGOs: better communications, faster executing of contracts, and an emerging standard of multi-year contracts. But we seem to have gone backwards since then, since April, to have reverted to older, poorer practices. Why can’t we realize and act on the need to be efficient with our partners to make life easier for our NGOs, not harder? Does the signing of GNWT NGO contracts get bogged down because our departments lack the expertise, or are bureaucrats just too busy with other work and this part of their job is not as important to them?

This situation must change, Mr. Speaker, and for the better. We cannot continually put these organizations and their staff in jeopardy.

I applauded the creation last year of a manual for GNWT program managers who deal with NGOs. I was optimistic we’d see some progress towards fairness in financing and towards stabilization of our NGOs. Now I’m not so sure how much progress there’s been. We need to put the elements of that manual into practice, Mr. Speaker, and we need to create financial efficiencies around our contracts with NGOs.

I will have some questions for the Premier at the appropriate time. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. The honourable Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My colleague Mr. Abernethy talked about gatherings, conventions, the capacity of communities to accommodate people, and the appropriateness of some communities to accommodate certain discussions and dialogues. Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to report to the House that on October 16th and 17th , last weekend in Hay

River, a group of representatives of community organizations interested in preserving the cultural and historic heritage history of their communities gathered together in Hay River. They held their meetings at our little Hay River Heritage Centre, which is a very down to earth kind of a grassroots... It doesn’t seem like that discussion would have been quite the same if it had been held at the Prince of Wales Heritage Centre here in Yellowknife, because these are people from communities where grassroots individuals in the community are trying to volunteer their efforts to preserve the history and importance of some of their cultural distinctiveness in their communities.

I am pleased to tell you that there were about 20 people in attendance at this gathering. They came from the Aklavik Interpretive Display Project, the Fort Simpson Historical Society, the Fort Simpson Heritage Centre Society, the Inuvialuit Cultural Liaison Centre, the Northern Lights Museum and Cultural Centre in Fort Smith, NWT Mining Heritage Society, NWT Arctic Ambassadors Program, the Hay River Museum Society and the Hay River Visitors Centre. Also in attendance at this gathering were representatives of the Prince of Wales Heritage Centre and also a representative from the Canadian Heritage department in Regina. These folks served as facilitators and resource people for this gathering.

Mr. Speaker, this summer we had the pleasure of attending the 10th anniversary of the Hay River

Heritage Centre. I would like to publicly thank our Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, the Honourable Jackson Lafferty, for attending that relatively small grassroots event. It was a very small town, but very nice. Mr. Lafferty showed up with his entire family, which meant a lot to the people who have put their heart and soul into collecting the artefacts and creating our little heritage centre in Hay River, not on a big budget, mostly with volunteerism.

I would particularly like to thank Vicky Latour and Peter Osted in Hay River for being the backbone of a strong volunteer board in Hay River for doing that. I think the conference will encourage people from smaller communities to realize they can play a part in preserving a culture and a heritage. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.

Anti-Poverty Summit
Members’ Statements

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I had an opportunity to take part in the power rate conference here in Yellowknife a couple of weeks ago. It was a real eye opener in regards to the number of people in the Northwest Territories that are living in poverty, regardless if it is economic, social or simply reacting to the cost of living.

Surprisingly, Mr. Speaker, almost 45 percent in my communities of Aklavik and Fort McPherson live with an income of under $30,000 a year. That is the majority. Forty-five percent of households in my riding have to maintain themselves with $30,000 or less. But yet, Mr. Speaker, in the larger centre, 50 percent of the households make over $100,000 a year in regards to take home income. I think, Mr. Speaker, that clearly shows us that we have to make more economic investments in communities to bring the cost of living up to a level with the other communities, but, more importantly, stimulate those communities, make them communities that are self-reliant. More importantly, give the people in our communities an opportunity to work.

Mr. Speaker, in Fort McPherson I have some 45 percent of people at the present time who are unemployed in the community of almost 800 people. There are a lot of people in the community that are capable of working, but because of the economics in the region, they are not able to find work.

I think it is important, Mr. Speaker, that we, as government, take a close look at these statistics, realizing the problem is not getting better, it’s getting worse. We see it happen in our communities. We are seeing the homeless people here in our streets in Yellowknife. We are seeing them show up in our regional centres, and also the people that we do have homeless in our communities were basically going from household to household every other night trying to find a place to sleep, either on someone’s couch or in someone’s tent frame.

Mr. Speaker, this problem is a very critical point on how government deals with the most vulnerable in our society: the poor. When people are trying to maintain themselves and show that basically they do have dignity, they do have respect, again, Mr. Speaker, what they want is a job, put food on their table, take care of their families, and that is all residents of the Northwest Territories are asking from this government.

Mr. Speaker, at the appropriate time I will be asking the Minister of ECE questions on what are we doing

to increase our unemployment rates in our communities. Mahsi.

Anti-Poverty Summit
Members’ Statements

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. The honourable Member for Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya.

Meeting Of Northern Leaders
Members’ Statements

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In September, late September, a group of veteran leaders in the Northwest Territories, aboriginal leaders, met in Yellowknife and talked about the state of the Northwest Territories. Mr. Speaker, they came out with a report, and in that report it stated that in 1992 the NWT commission, the constitutional development report published a phase I of this report, it’s known as the Jim Bourque Report.

Mr. Speaker, this report had extensive consultation across the Northwest Territories to all people in terms of constitutional reform in the Northwest Territories. A lot of good work had been done on the consultation and the report. A lot of good work, as I said, was put into it.

Now you can look at phase II of the report, Mr. Speaker, and the significance of phase II at this time, in this day and age, of our political development. Our land claim, Mr. Speaker, was the first land claim, in 1984. Four were signed by the IRC and in 2003 the Tli Cho signed the self-government land claim, also, which has a lot of significance in going forward.

Mr. Speaker, as I stated before, the aboriginal governments have experienced breaches of their treaties through the past and today, and the government has failed to honour the intent of these agreements in the implementation of their commitments.

Mr. Speaker, today we have mines, we have discussion about the pipeline, and now we’re having discussions on a draft AIP over lands and water. Mr. Speaker, now is the time to begin phase II of this report that can address some of these issues that are facing us today. We need to look at the public and aboriginal governments. That will truly address the fundamental outstanding issues that block the evolution of a unifying approach to northern governments. This report identifies how the issues critical to northern people will...(inaudible)...the challenge of the aboriginal governments, the aboriginal governments and this territorial government, and also re-establish a public government.

This report sets out the path to examine major principles to guide us all in the Northwest Territories. It also sets out a road so that we can work together. Truly, a feat that is capable of all leaders to make this a worthwhile deal. It’s time

again to look at the Bourque Report, look at phase II and let’s get on with it. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Meeting Of Northern Leaders
Members’ Statements

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. The honourable Member for Kam Lake, Mr. Ramsay.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m going to speak today about an agreement that’s posted on the Department of Transportation’s website. It’s entitled Community Opportunities and Involvement Agreement. It’s an agreement between the community of Fort Providence, represented by the Deh Gah Got’ie First Nation and the Fort Providence Metis Council.

Mr. Speaker, the Deh Cho Bridge Corporation was, for all intents and purposes, the best laid efforts of the community of Fort Providence to construct and manage the Deh Cho Bridge. Events of the past year have led to the dismissal of the original general contractor and the removal of the Deh Cho Bridge Corporation. For most people across the Northwest Territories, the belief is that the Deh Cho Bridge Corporation was out and the Government of the Northwest Territories was stepping in to manage the construction costs and the project through to conclusion.

The wrinkle was the concession agreement had to be terminated and an agreement reached with the community on benefits. The letter agreement provided for an orderly termination of the concession agreement. It also provided for the Government of the Northwest Territories to manage the legal defence to claims against the Deh Cho Bridge Corporation.

The former government and Premier kept repeating that the project would benefit the community of Fort Providence through a return on investment via their equity position in the project. The equity was supposed to be $5 million. It never ever did materialize and this did not stop the previous government from still signing the concession agreement. When asked, the former Premier used the term “deemed equity.” The truth is, Mr. Speaker, without the equity, the benefits were never ever going to materialize.

Once the concession agreement needed to be terminated, the government and Minister felt it necessary to negotiate a deal with the community of Fort Providence. The deal is, Mr. Speaker, $8,000 a month until March of 2012 and from there on an annual grant of $200,000 to the community for 35 years beginning April 1, 2012. That’s $7 million with no less than four opportunities to address adequacy over that time.

Mr. Speaker, I’ve always supported opportunities for the community, but I remain sceptical of this

very one-sided deal which will be the envy of all communities across the Territory. The way I see it, the deal was always a partnership. If revenue does not materialize to pay for the bridge, are taxpayers in this Territory going to be forced to pay for this agreement and make up any shortfall in the operation of this bridge? Most definitely. I’ll have questions for the Minister at the appropriate time.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The honourable Member for Nunakput, Mr. Jacobson.

Wind Farm In Tuktoyaktuk
Members’ Statements

Jackie Jacobson

Jackie Jacobson Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to clear the air about the plan to build the wind farm in Tuktoyaktuk. I don’t want our community and the whole region of Nunakput to miss out on this opportunity because of misunderstandings.

The plan is to put three wind turbines to generate electricity and feed into our local grid. This will reduce the amount of diesel fuel that we burn, because the fuel costs will be going up in the long run. This will save money as well as give us cleaner power.

The Northwind 100 turbines are state of the art. They are designed to work in cold climates like ours. They’re working very well in Alaska.

This project is a $4 million project and is a win-win for our community, with almost no risk. Our government is committed to financing the deal with the Tuktoyaktuk Power Corporation that ensures a positive revenue stream. It might not be the 15 percent profit, but it will make money and will create two new jobs right off the bat.

These turbines were scheduled to be put up next summer and it should happen without delay. Not only is it good for Tuk, but this project will help other Nunakput communities get theirs started. Most of them have stronger winds and higher electricity costs than Tuk, but in the long run this will cut the price of power in the communities and will put money into people’s pockets. It will mean more businesses, more jobs, more training for the people in Tuk as well as other communities that I represent.

I don’t need to remind you how badly we need good-paying jobs in the small communities. I’ve worked hard to advance this project and I’d like to thank my colleagues for all the support they’ve given me.

We do need the best for our people of Nunakput. We need to get this wind farm built and do the right thing for the future. This is an opportunity for all communities. This is a stepping stone that the other three communities will get after this first project is done.

I’d like to thank the Premier for all the help he’s given me in regard to this, and the ENR Minister.

Wind Farm In Tuktoyaktuk
Members’ Statements

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Jacobson. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Monfwi, Mr. Lafferty.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to recognize the students that are here. They are fourth-year nursing students from the Yellowknife Campus of Aurora College Nursing Program. I’ll just name a few of them. Forgive me if I misstate your name. Ashley Crump, Ashley Woytuik, Brittany Marceau-Chenkie, Brittany Jones, Candace Manuel, Frances Sinclair, Gwen Hysert, Hawna Cooper, Leanne Niziol, Malerie Hardisty, Mohamad El Hariri, Natalie Decker, Pearl Martin, Robyn Lavoie, Samantha Digness, Shawn Roper, Soura Munroe-Rosen, Vanessa Vandewater, and Jodi Brennan is the instructor. Thanks for being here. Mahsi.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

The honourable Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes, Mr. Robert McLeod.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

I believe one of the graduates or nursing students is from Inuvik, so I would like to recognize Candace Manuel.

I’d also like to recognize, while I have the opportunity, our two hardworking Pages from Inuvik Twin Lakes: Ashlyn Hendrick and Tessie Chinna.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Menicoche.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

It gives me great pleasure, as well, to recognize a nursing graduate, and that is Malerie Hardisty, who is from Jean Marie River. As well, I’d like to recognize Ms. Leanne Niziol, who’s got Wrigley roots. Welcome.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Abernethy.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

I’d like to recognize Mr. Mark Bogan, a constituent to the Great Slave riding.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

If we’ve missed anyone in the gallery today, welcome to the Chamber. I hope you’re enjoying the proceedings. It’s always nice to have an audience in here.

Item 6, acknowledgements. Item 7, oral questions. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, Mr. Beaulieu.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today I talked about Highway No. 6 and the work that has

been done and the work that’s planned for the coming years. With that I have some questions for the Minister of Transportation. With respect to future work on Highway No. 6, can the Minister tell me what is planned for 2011-2012 for Highway No. 6?

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. The honourable Minister responsible for Transportation, Mr. Michael McLeod.

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We’ve been working in the area of the Member’s riding on Highway No. 6 for a couple of years now and there’s been quite a bit of work done in that area. We’ve really been pleased with the cooperation that we’ve had from the community of Fort Resolution. A lot of the work has been focused on reconstruction and chipsealing. There are more dollars identified through some internal reallocation for the next coming year that will focus on more of the same. We expect that some of the work in 2011-2012 will be in the area of kilometre 62 and kilometre 67 around Little Buffalo River. We’ll be conducting some engineering activities, some geotechnical assessments. Our plan is to start right away and we should have them completed by March of this next calendar year. Throughout this winter we expect to produce some gravel for this section of road and other materials that will be required for the base of this highway. We should expect to see a tender coming out in early April.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Can the Minister give me a brief update of what’s planned for Highway No. 6 for future years beyond 2011-2012?

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

That’s a difficult question as there is a considerable amount of work and investments that are required on Highway No. 6. We only have one year left in our term and that’s basically all I can commit to.

The work should continue. We have a plan. We have the resources identified that will be required. It will be roughly around $15 million to complete all of Highway No. 6 and, of course, that will be proceeding as money is available as the next government comes forward and budgets are identified. There is a lot of work that has been done already that will be used as a basis, the engineering and the testing of the road will guide us. That information will move forward as funding is identified in the new government, as I stated previously.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

With respect to the work going on and knowing sometimes that projects are bid without a great amount of consideration given to local businesses, can the Minister commit his department to pay closer attention in the area to ensure that as many local businesses and labour can be used as possible?

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

As with all our projects and the contracts that are out there, we work quite hard to ensure that the community leaders are informed and aware of our plans. We try to get out prior to the contracts being let, to ensure that happens. There’s also that information provided to the labour force and also the contractors in the area and surrounding communities.

We want to continue to work with the successful contractors to ensure that process happens, and that the maximum amount of business opportunities and labour opportunities are provided to the community. Our staff will continue to do that. It has worked quite well.

Of course, any time there seems to be any friction or glitch in the system, we’re always made aware of it from MLAs and other community leaders. It keeps us on our toes and we’re happy to keep working with communities.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Final supplementary, Mr. Beaulieu.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Looking at the economies of scale, can the Minister commit to working with the communities so that once the highway from 22 kilometres south, Little Buffalo River to Fort Resolution, has been chipsealed, that the same contractor can continue to chipseal the community?

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

That again is a difficult commitment to make. We do provide the information to communities, and on many occasions the communities have taken the opportunity to piggyback their initiatives along with what is happening on the highway alongside the community. We’ve had good discussions with some of the communities already about chipsealing and other types of road servicing. We have provided the same courtesy to the community of Fort Resolution and they have taken advantage of it and plan to do some chipsealing in their community. We do provide advice, and technical staff are made available so that the communities can ask questions or help guide and plan what their initiatives are. We’ll continue to support that. As for ensuring the same contractor is going to have the contract next year, I can’t guarantee that.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In my Member’s statement I talked about phase II of the Bourque Report that was commissioned in the early ‘90s on the constitutional issues in the Northwest Territories. I want to ask the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs and Intergovernmental Relations if he has any indication from a meeting that was held at the

spiritual location, the Trappers Lodge here, on this group going forward with a report to come out asking for a look at phase II of the Bourque Report in the Northwest Territories.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. The honourable Minister responsible for Aboriginal Affairs and Intergovernmental Relations, Mr. Roland.

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The work that was done at the Trappers Lodge with prominent past leaders and people involved in aboriginal negotiations and self-government discussions did invite myself and Mr. Miltenberger to drop by for a brief discussion. They pointed out the work they had done together and they were going to submit that report. We haven’t received it. I have put it into our system for review, and one of the things I told them is that we would be prepared to sit down with the regional leaders at the end of November to share their work to see what regional leaders would say about that work.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

I look forward to the end results of the discussions with the regional leaders on the report that’s going to be discussed with the Members of this Assembly here.

I wanted to ask the Minister on the issue of the draft AIP, would that agreement then require this Assembly to change the Northwest Territories Act to make the commitments in the draft AIP?

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake

The only changes that would occur in the NWT Act -- and that being under the control of the federal government -- would be following a final agreement signing, that would change things and transfer authorities over. That would amend some of the deliveries. At this point there would be no changes required.

The processes we would undertake following a signing of that agreement, following those discussions and what was agreed to, would potentially change some of our own legislation here in the Northwest Territories as well as those under existing federal control today. Thank you.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Then, Mr. Speaker, it would be beneficial to the Minister, in terms of looking at the report, specifically the phase II of the Bourque Commission Report, in terms of constitutional development, in terms of that could possibly go hand in hand with the draft AIP. Can the Minister then see the beneficial use of looking at phase II of the Bourque Commission Report to support what this government now is wanting to do and they’re waiting for the aboriginal governments to see if they’re on board or not?

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake

Early on in our discussions at the regional leaders table, the idea of a constitution was brought up because the Dene Nation has raised it as one of their efforts. The regional leaders felt that we needed to work on

some of our own issues first, and then a constitution would be the overarching piece. As well, when we look at our own history in the Northwest Territories, following the Bourque Report, there was the Constitutional Development Steering Committee that did its work through the 12th and into the 13th Assembly -- I believe those

were the dates -- and then the Constitutional Working Group from the 13th into the 14th Assembly. That work occurred as well; in fact, produced a document that was launched in the Great Hall that talked about how aboriginal governments and public governments will work together. So there was that work that was initiated and it did not proceed beyond that point. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Your final supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I raise this important question because of the posted information on CBC’s website in terms of the draft AIP, that it seems that this government here is working towards legitimizing its government through a negotiated draft agreement and it’s a constitutional issue. I’m asking this in terms of the support to be a responsible government. It’s going to become a very heavy constitutional issue, so I’m asking the Minister, in terms of how do we do this and be open and up front with all people of the Northwest Territories to say this is how we want to become somewhat of a provincial type of government. Would the Minister then look at these types of discussions at the end of November with the regional leaders that are going to be asked to sign onto this draft AIP?

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake

The process we are under does not have to legitimize the GNWT. The fact is, we are, in this forum, elected by our constituents in this forum, and we’re receiving a salary to do the job paid by taxpayers from the country as well as the people of the Northwest Territories. So I would say the NWT Act, although held by the federal government, puts us in place and that’s why we have the pleasure of representing the people across this fine land we call the Northwest Territories and our home. So the work that we’re doing is one that takes the next stage of development of the Northwest Territories and control from Ottawa to the Northwest Territories, which many leaders for decades have been talking about. The process we’re involved with would lead us to the one extra step. The next phase that I would see being potential if we all were able to move ahead these building blocks, would be an overall constitution of the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think my question is better presented to the Premier, so I will ask the Premier the question in regard to my Member’s statement.

Mr. Speaker, in regard to statistics that I received at the conference that we held on poverty, it clearly states that the communities I represent, such as Aklavik, where we have 45 percent of the income levels per household is under $30,000, and in Fort McPherson it’s 43 percent. Also, households under $10,000, it’s 16 percent for Aklavik and 11 percent for Fort McPherson. I’m just looking at the unemployment statistics for Fort McPherson that are 45 percent and for Aklavik it’s 35 percent.

With these large numbers which clearly show that we have a problem in regard to economic diversification or development, does the Government of the Northwest Territories look at these statistics when they make decisions such as capital investment or finding ways to stimulate those communities through community initiatives to increase those numbers so that communities are able to be sustainable and give them the opportunity to take part in the northern economy? Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. The honourable Premier, Mr. Roland.

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Premier

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The sustainability of our communities is an important initiative. One of the parts of our vision and goals of the 16th Legislative Assembly is to try

to create an environment of sustainability. So there are a number of factors that we have engaged with during the life of this government and one of them is going to be the Electricity Rate Review and the adjustments to our delivery of electricity. The other is in the area of the economic side, under the Minister of ITI, has been, for example, the SEED program, the agricultural program, investments being made in that area, as well as the more traditional areas in our smaller communities when it comes to the hunting and trapping basket as well.

We continue to try to improve on that and improve on those numbers as we look forward to how we try to do our business in government. In fact, one of the things we’ve done during the life of this government is establish the Rural and Remote Communities committee as well. Thank you.

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, I think one of the biggest factors in the Northwest Territories is we haven’t really made the decision to deregulate government and put government positions in the communities and keep them there and fill those positions. Mr. Speaker, there are some 5,000 positions in the Government of the Northwest Territories which could be put to communities

regardless of expanding our programs and services officer positions, wildlife officers, departments such as forestry or looking at areas in regard to the economic development positions in our regions, housing positions at regional centres. We have to reprofile that.

Mr. Speaker, I think it’s important that we, as government, have to look at those types of shifts in government expenditures and making it that is where the income is going to our communities for jobs, jobs, jobs, and good paying jobs, especially government jobs in our communities. Thank you.

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Premier

The processes we’ve been involved with as the Government of the Northwest Territories during this government and even previous governments to try to create a level of sustainability in our communities looks at those kinds of jobs. There were community transfer initiatives examples that were used and unsuccessful for a large part partly because of the way things were looked at in those days.

We’ve looked at a number of other initiatives ourselves. One of the areas is our program review to see how we deliver those programs and services in our communities and what impact that can have. So there are a number of factors that play into there.

The issue we come to is affordability, and we can even use the Nunavut example. When they designed initially, their government to be more devolved -- and the past Government of the Northwest Territories, which included Nunavut, they undertook that exercise -- they established and planned to reach out and establish departments in other areas amongst their communities. As they initiated that, they found that the costs were extremely high and they were not able to fully deliver on that. We would have to look at... Quite simply, if we were to look at redistributing the employment situation in our existing framework, we would have to look at overall how do we use the revenues that we have available and establish these positions in communities that they are not in today’s environment and where would those additional dollars come from. Thank you.

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, again, I think it’s crucial that this government seriously look at this issue. I will just use a statistic here.

Looking at Yellowknife, for instance, there are some 6,000 households; 6,625. Fifty percent of the households in Yellowknife make over $100,000 in which out of that the average household income is $111,419. Compared to a community of Aklavik which is 220 households, basically it is 9 percent of the households which make over $100,000, which is $44,000.

Again, Mr. Speaker, we talk about the cost of living, trying to find ways to reduce the cost of living. The

only way I see us being able to get out of this trap is we have to develop the economics of the Northwest Territories and, more importantly, the resources, which are the people of the Northwest Territories. I would like to ask the Minister, can we look at finding ways to develop economic opportunities in all of our communities, make them self-reliant and offer the people in our communities that opportunity to go to work. Thank you.

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Premier

Mr. Speaker, I couldn’t agree more with what the Member just stated about creating a sustainable economic environment in our communities and trying to provide the necessary tools to allow that to happen.

Just the other day, Minister Bob McLeod had responded to some of the initiatives that we are undertaking in our smaller communities through his department to establish subsidiaries. For example, that would bring jobs to the community and maintain some of those jobs. The support we give through a number of other departments, for example, on the traditional harvesting side of the equation and the Education department to try and get as many of our youth trained so they can take those high paying jobs as well. Ultimately, it comes down to trying to have a healthy economy that is driven through that process and not have one that is overly subsidized, and the question then becomes where do we get those subsidies. If we can develop those economies through our resources, we would be able to take better advantage of that and have a more sustainable environment to afford. That is why, for example, we are promoting the changes in the Electricity Rate Review. We are promoting highways that connect our communities and drop the cost of living as well.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Final supplementary, Mr. Krutko.

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Hopefully within the remaining year left in this government, we are really able to make a difference in our communities. More importantly, we have to use the tools we have at hand. We have policies in place. We have negotiated contracting guidelines. We have initiatives to stimulate our communities. I believe we have to formulate these partnerships, because the communities are trying to do their part, whether it is the band councils, the hamlet councils, the local government authorities, because they realize the importance of jobs in our communities. Can we get some flexibility in regards to allowing communities to take advantage of negotiating contracting guidelines, sole-source contracting and those communities that have high unemployment, and be able to use those policies to boost those economies and get those people to work and take advantage of the capital investment this government has available to it? Thank you.

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Premier

Mr. Speaker, the number of policies the Member just highlighted are policies that will allow us to do just that. That is create, try to help build capacity in the communities so that they can take on more of the contracting that happens in our communities and not have businesses come in from other parts of the Territory or southern Canada. The Negotiated Contracts Policy of sole-sourcing and so on is there to do just that.

We will continue to use those tools where we have capital programs in those communities to try and assist in that building of capacity. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland. The honourable Member for Kam Lake, Mr. Ramsay.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have some questions today for the Minister of Transportation. It gets back to my Member’s statement where I talked about the Opportunities and Involvement Agreement negotiated by the government with the community of Fort Providence in regards to the termination of the concession agreement for the Deh Cho Bridge Project.

I would like to begin by asking the Minister if he could explain to this side of the House and to the public why was it was necessary to enter into an agreement with the community for $7 million over the next 35 years because of the termination of that concession agreement, if you could explain that to us. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The honourable Minister of Transportation, Mr. Michael McLeod.

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Minister of Transportation

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There are a number of reasons that we felt it was necessary to sign off on a couple of agreements. The first was a letter agreement and also the opportunities agreement that the Member is raising. Of course, one of the biggest reasons was to ensure that we could continue to work with the community and also apply resources so that the community can stay involved.

It was quite obvious through our discussions with the community that they wanted to continue to be involved with this project right to the end. They wanted to be able to derive benefits from it. As a government, we had our discussions and agreed that should happen. We also laid it out for the Members that we would be signing off on this agreement. It also helped us to access the equity that they had produced for this project. We didn’t want them to fully subscribe to it, as we wanted to move away from the concession agreement. This allowed us to have legal termination of that agreement.

We also were in a position with the agreements in place to address some of the concerns that were in front of us, some complaints that were coming forward. We also avoided the dispute resolution process that would have tied us up. It would have tied us up in litigation for some time. We probably would have had a very lengthy legal battle that would have cost a lot of money. We also were able to move away from a lot of the financial commitments we had that were part of the concession agreement.

Overall, Mr. Speaker, there are a number of reasons, but basically the reasons were to allow the community to stay part of this project and also to ensure that the project would move forward on a timely basis and we didn’t come to a stop, which would have cost a lot of money. Thank you.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Mr. Speaker, all along, this project was to be a partnership between the community and the Government of the Northwest Territories. It would seem to me, from what I have seen, the economics on this bridge aren’t good. If it is operating on a deficit basis year to year, I would suggest if the Minister is shopping for new paint, he could find some red paint to paint that bridge because it is going to be mired in red ink for the foreseeable future.

Here we are as a government negotiating a deal with a community to guarantee them $200,000 a year. How is that a fair partnership if the Government of the Northwest Territories, the rest of the taxpayers in the Northwest Territories are expected to pay for that deficit? Meanwhile, the deal negotiated with the community guarantees them a win out of this. Mr. Speaker, how is that fair to the rest of the taxpayers in the Northwest Territories? Thank you.

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Minister of Transportation

Mr. Speaker, I am not sure there is a deficit the Member is referring to and if this bridge was clouded in red ink, I am sure the Member has reached into his can of paint of doom and gloom and painted this project that colour on his own.

Mr. Speaker, there is no indication right now that there will be a deficit. The traffic volumes are going to allow for us to accommodate all the debt on this bridge. In fact, if the traffic volumes go up and we start to see more projects come on stream, we will probably have some significant surplus on this that will be applied back to some of the costs incurred and into the government coffers, which will make it a very popular project, I assume. Thank you.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Mr. Speaker, maybe the Minister could table the last two financial projections on that bridge I had asked him to put on the Transportation’s website the other day, because those don’t paint a very rosy picture of the financial outlook on that project. Mr. Speaker, it is not all

doom and gloom. I am speaking from facts his department has in fact given me.

I would like to ask the Minister why the Opportunities and Involvement Agreement is scheduled to begin on April 1, 2012, and not November 1, 2011. Thank you.

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Minister of Transportation

Mr. Speaker, the intention was to have the agreement to allow for a monthly payment during the construction season where we work with the community. They have an office set up to provide us support and to provide us all kinds of responsibilities that help us move forward, including having a presence in the community. Once the contract is done, we would move forward into the new fiscal year with the agreement kicking in with the Opportunities Fund for the remaining 35 years. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Your final supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. So the dates have nothing to do with or don’t coincide with when the construction of that project will finally be finished. My belief is it won’t be in November 2011, it will in fact be closer to April. That’s the point that I was trying to make there. I’d like to ask the Minister in closing, what exactly will the community be doing for this Opportunities and Involvement Fund? How are they going to be involved in this project?

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Minister of Transportation

Again the Member has demonstrated his attitude to this bridge by his predictions that it’s going to be past the deadlines that we’ve laid out for him. I’m not sure what he’s pointing at and using to measure this with. We still anticipate that this project is on schedule. The steel is en route. There’s a significant amount of steel that’s coming forward for the superstructure. There is the decking that will be following. Also the ‘A’ pylons. We expect the steel for the superstructure will be in place by March of this coming next calendar year. Things are going well, as much as that might upset the Member who has been painting this with his brush of doom and gloom.

We still feel it’s necessary to continue to have the community on side. There is a lot of support being provided. There are issues which probably would have put this project to a standstill if we didn’t resolve them, and we feel we’ve done that. We want to continue that partnership. We want the community to have opportunities to benefit from this project in terms of economics and having some resources to invest in that area.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions today are for the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment. I want to follow up on my statement today.

I think the Minister recognizes that we’ve failed many of our Grade 12 graduates in the counselling we’ve provided. When I went to school -- some time ago, I acknowledge -- it was clear there was a matriculation Grade 12 diploma and a vocational and that led to a lot of clarity. Today that’s not true. We have a bolus of students, a bunch of students who are lost in Never-Never Land, needing to upgrade to 6actually pursue the post-secondary requirements they want. I’m wondering if the Minister can tell me if there is a separate fund under the Student Financial Assistance Program for students in post high school upgrading programs or the need to get into those programs. And if separate, can he tell me the amount of those funds?

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. A couple of questions there. The honourable Minister responsible for Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Lafferty.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. As you know, the Student Financial Assistance Program is one of the greatest benefits of all throughout Canada. There is other funding available through DIAND throughout Canada for First Nations students. Dene and Inuit students can apply for USEP funding through that department. That is additional funding on top of the SFA that’s out there.

The Member is referring to upgrading. We currently don’t provide funding for upgrading, but we provide funding for access programs through Aurora College and other institutions, as long as there’s an access program, such as access to nursing, social work, teaching, those types of professions. There’s also ARDA and Income Assistance. That’s another resource that we can provide additional funding from on top of the SFA to meet the standards the students need.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m very disappointed in this information. USEP, of course, is a very small fund and it runs out in no time at all. Ask any of these students who are looking for upgrading opportunities. The Minister knows full well that due to our lack of an adequate system... And albeit we may have one of the best Student Financial Assistance Programs in the country, we also have one of the worst records in graduating students who are unqualified for their post-secondary education. I’m looking to meet this need.

USEP clearly doesn’t cover it and we don’t provide upgrading opportunities ourselves. This is a crime.

I’d like to ask if the Minister will commit to providing that funding, a fund specifically dedicated for that. It’s impossible to guess how many students have given up and don’t even apply for the funding now, because of the sort of negative feedback that I’m hearing from through my constituents. Will the department commit to putting those funds in place?

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

I must say that we’re very proud of the highest aboriginal graduates in the country in the Northwest Territories. We should be proud of that. The school system, we are currently developing an action plan to deal with that through the Aboriginal Student Achievement Initiative. We’ve highlighted the core needs of the community. We’ve visited a Sahtu community already. We’re visiting all regions. They’re providing us solutions that are coming from the communities. This is an area we are very serious about.

Also, at the same time, we are going through a review of the Student Financial Assistance Program. Those are the key areas we are currently undergoing. There is also a labour market agreement that provides funding, whether it be training for students that fall through the cracks. This is federal funding that we’ve taken advantage of.

These are just some of the key areas that we are currently covering for funding. SFA is under review. The Aboriginal Student Achievement Initiative is on the way. We are making great progress in that area. The action plan will be produced out of that discussion.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you to the Minister for those comments. I’m very pleased to hear that that review is underway.

I want to comment on the Minister noting that we have the highest number of aboriginal student graduates. I’m very happy to hear that and I support that, and I think that does say some good things about our system. However, if we’re graduating students who clearly don’t have the qualifications to go on to post-secondary education, what does that say about that statistic? We can’t hide in statistics and we can’t afford to do that. I would ask this Minister to please commit to lobbying the federal Minister to bump up that USEP program to meaningful dollars, especially recognizing that we have failed in graduating qualified students.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

I want to reassure that we are not hiding anything within our system. We provide any data that’s available on the Northwest Territories education system, because we want to be transparent and we want to be accountable to what’s before us. That’s the very reason why we’re going throughout the Northwest

Territories in all regions to deal with the education matters. We are very concerned about that. We want to come to a solution. There is a solution at the grassroots, communities, who we are seeking advice from. It is happening. The federal, yes, we continuously lobby them through Education, Justice, federal/provincial/territorial Justice Ministers meetings constantly. The First Nations students are being represented at that level and we continually lobby the federal government for additional funding. With limited and also the small jurisdictions, we seem to be always left out, compared to other reservations that receive funding. Those are the areas we continue to have our discussion and possibly have a separate agreement, our uniqueness of the Northwest Territories. I will continue to support that.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Final supplementary, Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate the Minister’s commitments there. I acknowledge that in fact we do, we are very open about these things. Who I’m hearing from, of course, are my constituents who are trying to upgrade. I want to make the point that these are young people who are often starting families, or perhaps are single parents who have extra needs perhaps beyond the norm. They are facing these challenges. I hope and, I guess, I would ask the Minister to commit and consider these aspects of these students without appropriate certificates for pursuing post-secondary, that they be considered in this review and be addressed in the solutions offered in that review.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

I’m sure that will be part of the discussion, because there will be a wide range of discussions with the public as well. Any input from the Members will be greatly appreciated, and also the Northwest Territories. If we make changes, it has to benefit the Northwest Territories as well. Definitely this is an area that I’m excited about and I’m looking forward to those changes as well.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. The honourable Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to ask the Minister responsible for Human Resources some questions about this government’s succession planning.

Our public service workforce is always aging. I guess we’re always all aging.

---Interjection

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

I don’t know, I got an e-mail from somebody the other day who told me they

saw me on TV and said I should go see a hairdresser. Seriously.

---Laughter

Oh, the feedback we get.

Anyway. Our public service is aging. It is prudent for us as a government to do succession planning to find out how we can take people who are interested in careers in the public service and provide them with the professional development, the training, and the opportunities they need to advance in the public service. I have had an inquiry from a constituent who was concerned about an individual who was direct appointed to an associate deputy position, but I believe this person may have been a part of some kind of a program to make sure we have adequate senior level bureaucrats in place for these positions. I thought it might be helpful if the Minister of HR could describe for us what programs the government has in place to create opportunity for people to advance themselves in our public service.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The honourable Minister responsible for Human Resources, Mr. Bob McLeod.

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Minister of Human Resources

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As a government, our greatest resource, our greatest asset is our human resources and it’s very important for us to make sure that we have a qualified public service in order to do all the work that we need them to do.

The Member is correct that our public service is aging. The average age is 44 years old. That’s the average age of our public service. Sixty-three percent of our employees are over 40 years old. Obviously we need to pay a lot of attention to succession planning. Specifically in the senior management category, over the next five years 40 percent of our senior management cohort is eligible to retire, and over 10 years 54 percent of our senior managers are eligible to retire as well. Obviously, we have a big job ahead of us.

Our Human Resource Strategic Plan identified the need for our government to develop a Succession Planning Strategy, and we're working very hard on that right now.

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

In years gone past there were programs that were well known to people in the public service. My colleague Mr. Beaulieu, for example, entered the public service under a trainee program, where a trainee for a position was paired up, so to speak, with somebody in senior management and was sent out also for professional development to enhance their skills to become managers in various aspects of government service. What programs exist today? That was called a trainee program. I understand there’s been a MAP program in more recent years. What other opportunities are there that public servants can

access now if they want to advance their career with the public service?

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Minister of Human Resources

Several years ago, when the Department of Personnel was decentralized, the training money was allocated to the departments. There are a number of programs. Right now we have a leadership program with the government. People can apply to be part of this program. Generally they need some support from the department and we have regular training modules that have been established through the University of Alberta. We also have an Associate Director Superintendent Program for aboriginal people whereby we’re trying to increase the number of aboriginal people in senior management positions. We have been working through utilization of transfer assignments whereby we can allow people to obtain experience in different levels of management so that they can move on to higher levels as they progress.

Our Human Resource Strategic Plan 20/20 recognizes that we want to encourage government employees to take advantage of lifelong learning so that they can advance their careers within the government. We are developing a draft succession planning discussion paper. We will be introducing a pilot program and we will be developing a succession planning framework for the government to follow, and we expect that next year. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Before I go on, Members, I would just like to draw your attention to the rules that we have. Half of the Members haven’t asked a question yet and we only have 15 minutes left in question period, so both questions and answers, try to maybe shorten them up. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The concern I had raised to me by a constituent was someone who had entered into a certain government department at an associate deputy position. Is it the position of this government that skills at the deputy minister/associate deputy minister level are transferable between departments without any really specific experience or having worked their way up in the ranks in that particular discipline or area of program delivery? Thank you.

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Minister of Human Resources

Our government operates on the basis of merit, so employees that progress through different promotions and different employment opportunities either compete for the jobs and get them on their own merit or if they are direct appointed or on a transfer assignment. It’s based on merit. Senior level positions like deputies and associate deputy ministers, my experience is that the senior management skills are transferrable; that if you’re working with one department, generally you should be able to manage different levels of departments, and we recognize that in our

deputy minister cohort where we have different levels of deputy ministers. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Your final supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. How are people in the ranks of the public service made aware of these types of opportunities that the Minister has outlined? How do they access information to that if they want to get the candidate that’s going to advance into some of these programs? Thank you.

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Minister of Human Resources

As I’ve indicated many times, the authority for staffing has been delegated down to individual departments, and the majority of competitions are filled through the staffing process and they’re posted on our websites. We are moving to e-Recruit and all of the jobs that we advertise will be on e-Recruit.

With regard to the deputy minister level positions, that is under the authority of the Premier. The Premier decides if he wants to put it out to competition or if he feels that we have sufficient people who are qualified to do it within the public service. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Abernethy.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to once again thank the Minister responsible for ITI for working with NWT Tourism and developing a meeting and conference planner for 2011. It’s a great first step. It’s a great document. I’m wondering if the Minister will commit to taking that second step, which is to find some finances to provide some financial benefit or incentive to local businesses, organizations or associations who convince southern institutions, southern businesses to come up north for conferences and meetings. It’s a great place to have a meeting. What are we going to do to help our businesses bring them up? Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. The honourable Minister responsible for Industry, Tourism and Investment, Mr. Bob McLeod.

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thank the Member for raising this issue, because it’s very important for us to continue to find ways to attract visitors to the Northwest Territories. As the Member indicated, there has been a significant decline in the business traveller sector of visitors to the Northwest Territories. With the reduced airfares, especially to Yellowknife, we have a significant increase in the number of visitors to the Northwest Territories; but in the business traveller category,

the numbers have decreased by 22 percent, which is a significant number. The dollars that represents is $16.5 million, so anything we can do to increase the number of visitors to the Northwest Territories, we will certainly look seriously at. Thank you.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

That’s good news. What I’m looking for is something similar to what’s happening in the Yukon. They have an incentive program that’s available to associations when those associations bring their national and international counterparts to come to the Yukon for conferences. I’m not suggesting by any stretch of the imagination would we spend the kind of money they are, but there are still advantages. A little bit of money can go a long way. Has the Minister had his department explore the possibility of providing some sort of small financial benefit or incentive to our local associations when they go out and encourage their national and international counterparts to come north, anywhere in the North, for conferences and/or business meetings? Let’s get some of that $16.5 million back. Thank you

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

In follow-up to the questioning by the Member, I did ask my Tourism Marketing Advisory Committee to look at ways to provide financial incentives, and in their view they feel that with the discounts that are offered by hotels and airlines and the promotional items that can be provided by local businesses, that that might be sufficient. I like the idea of looking at what the Yukon is doing. We do already provide a certain level of financial incentives through our SEED program. Thank you.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

I’m happy the Minister is going to be looking into that. I would say what his advisors are telling him may not exactly be working, because we have experienced a $16.5 million drop in business travel. So once again, I think there’s an advantage to provide small incentives, small financial incentives. We could also go with a base payment with maybe another small fund or amount based on the number it brings, because the more people you bring, the more money you can get. Will the Minister explore the possibility of actually creating an incentive based on the number of people that people can bring up for conferences and business meetings? Thank you.

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

We are committed to increase the number of business travellers to the North, so we’ll certainly be prepared to look at this area of financial incentives, and we’ll look at what the Yukon is doing, and we’ll also look at how the money that we’re spending through the SEED funding, how that’s working with regard to increasing the number of business travellers. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Nunakput, Mr. Jacobson.

Jackie Jacobson

Jackie Jacobson Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Further to my Member’s statement today regarding the Tuk wind project in the community of Tuk, Mr. Speaker, it appears there’s a misunderstanding between the government and the community corporation on the deal to build the wind project in Tuktoyaktuk. Mr. Speaker, I’m wondering what is the Premier and the Minister doing to clear this up and can he help me to get clarity so this project can go forward. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Jacobson. The honourable Minister responsible for the Power Corporation, Mr. Roland.

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The issue of the wind turbines is one that we’ve been watching as the discussions have been ongoing about purchasing power back through to the Power Corporation. We will continue to monitor that. If the requirement is if there’s call about providing additional information, we will commit to doing that and see what we can do to help have all the appropriate information so that the community can make the right decision. Thank you.

Jackie Jacobson

Jackie Jacobson Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, other communities in Nunakput have consistent winds for this project. If it does not go ahead in Tuk, can we make sure that communities like Sachs Harbour, Paulatuk and Ulukhaktok can go ahead with this wind program on their own under the same project?

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake

Mr. Speaker, of course we are hopeful that a satisfactory approach can be resolved here with the Tuk community and the wind turbine situation. Of course, if that is not able to proceed, we would go back to the Ministers of the Energy Coordinating Committee and relook at that and evaluate where we can do that and reallocate funds to communities that are willing and where we have the studies to show that wind is consistent enough for wind power. Thank you.

Jackie Jacobson

Jackie Jacobson Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, will the Minister reassure the Power Corporation that this wind program represents no significant cost and risk to the community? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake

Mr. Speaker, I will get the information necessary to show the parameters of that project, what it means, the idea. That is why this government is putting capital funds in place to help offset that initial cost. We will get the additional information and provide it to the Member. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Final supplementary, Mr. Jacobson.

Jackie Jacobson

Jackie Jacobson Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am hoping this project does not get stalled, because of the 15 to 20 jobs for local hire for this project, where

it is all tight work in our small communities. I just want to make sure that this is going to stabilize our power bills, because we have such high power bills in the communities, so it wouldn’t spike on our coldest months of the year.

Mr. Speaker, will the Minister reallocate the funds again from Tuk to one of the other Nunakput communities? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake

Mr. Speaker, as I stated earlier, if the situation in the community of Tuk doesn’t correct itself and we find a satisfactory solution there, we would look at the other communities within that area, or around the Territory as a possibility, but we would look at where there is a wind factor. Again, hopefully we could find a satisfactory report on this. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Menicoche.

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister of the NWT Housing Corporation some questions.

I raised the issue about the core needs income threshold and the application guidelines for constituents. I just wanted to know if there is an initiative out there that we have lots of homes and they need to be given away this fiscal year, how the process is going and what kind of special accommodations are they making when they are applying the guidelines there, Mr. Speaker. Are they going to stick to the old guidelines or will they be more flexible this year in terms of allocating units and/or agreeing to applications? Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. The honourable Minister of the NWT Housing Corporation, Mr. Robert McLeod.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Minister Responsible for NWT Housing Corporation

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am assuming the Member is talking about homeownership units or public housing units. If it is a homeownership unit, as I stated on a couple of occasions, I have asked the corporation to be a little more flexible on how we allocate the units. The application process is done now, so the regions are just analyzing all the information and then we will be able to do the allocations. Thank you.

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Mr. Speaker, I guess one of the single biggest issues that constituents have raised with me is that the people that can afford it and have the good incomes, perhaps double incomes in the smaller communities, are actually being rejected from the applications because they are actually making too much money. But because we have such an arrears with our Housing Corporation, Mr. Speaker, I think these are the type of people that we should have within our Housing

Corporation programs. These are the people that are hard working. They are able to make mortgage payments, and thereby the corporation would be able to generate revenue. What is the Minister going to do about addressing their concerns and allowing this range of people to apply for our programs? Thank you.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you. I completely agree with the Member that these are the people that we want to capture, and that’s the reason I’ve asked the Housing Corporation to become a little more flexible in how we allocate. We hear a lot of stories of people that are just over core need income threshold that are being denied and it’s my wish to try and get these people into homeownership. Thank you.

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Perhaps the Minister can clarify for me exactly why that rule is there. Why is there an upper limit? In the bigger centres it kind of makes sense, right? I mean, you don’t want to disrupt the existing housing market, but a small community like Nahanni Butte, even Fort Simpson, which is not really a market community either and these people are being denied. So I’d like to know the reasoning why this guideline and/or policy exist. Maybe the Minister can clarify that for me.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

On the higher end of core need income threshold we have too many people that are over that that are deemed to be able to secure a mortgage or are not in need of any subsidy from the Housing Corp. But it is something that we continue to monitor and look at, because the Member is correct that in some of the smaller communities there might not be a level playing field as some of the market communities. So this is all information that we plan to do a program review of the whole housing choices portfolio. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Your final supplementary, Mr. Menicoche.

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Sounds like there’s going to be a re-evaluation of the core need income threshold or the guidelines. Perhaps the Minister can tell me if that’s something they’re planning for April 1st , or is that

something that the Minister and department can apply for this intake season, which the application was October 15th .

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you. The whole program review will be undertaken in the ‘11-‘12 Housing Choices Program. We have to, as a department, corporation, look at the core need income threshold and see if it’s meeting the needs of the people in the Northwest Territories, and our goal was to get more people into units. So as a corporation, becoming a little more flexible in how we try to get those people into units. I believe after this intake period we’re going to see success in getting more people into a lot of these units. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Time for question period has expired. Item 8, written questions. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Ms. Bisaro.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I seek consent to return to the orders of the day, item 7, oral questions.

---Unanimous consent granted

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to ask some questions to the Premier, who is also the Minister for the Executive, and I’d like to follow up on my Member’s statement. I think these questions probably fall under his duties as Minister for the Executive. I mentioned in my statement that there was a program manual that was published, I think it was last year, a program manual for managers who deal with NGOs. I’d like to know what work has been undertaken by the GNWT as a result of that program manual for managers to deal with contracts more efficiently than what seems to be happening. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. The honourable Premier, Mr. Roland.

Question 238-16(5): Funding And Assistance For NGOs
Oral Questions (Reversion)

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Premier

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I don’t have that information at hand. I will have to get that and get back to the Member. Thank you.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

I think that’s the shortest answer we’ve heard from the Minister all day.

Last May I had some questions about NGOs and volunteers and so on, and Minister R.C. McLeod at the time indicated that there was work on another manual, not the manual for GNWT program managers but a manual for NGOs to help them with protocols and how they should deal with the government and so on. He was going to get back to me on that and I haven’t seen anything. So I’d like to ask the Premier if he can advise whether or not there is a manual that is being developed for NGOs to help them in their dealings with the government. Thank you.

Question 238-16(5): Funding And Assistance For NGOs
Oral Questions (Reversion)

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Premier

I know there has been ongoing work around the NGO, and the stabilization of funding and the process. There have been a number of departments involved: the Executive, Finance, as well as the Minister of Community Affairs. Again, on that piece of work I’ll have to get that information from the appropriate departments and get back to the Member. Thank you.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

I appreciate the commitment on the part of the Minister and I look forward to that, hopefully a little sooner than from May to October.

Members have often spoken about it, I know I’ve often spoken about it, but there is a real need for this government to provide adequate and consistent funding to our NGOs. One of the things that the government has done, that I think has been received positively with our NGOs, is to establish an NGO Stabilization Fund, and the applications, I guess, have recently been finished for that fund. It’s based on awards that are determined by our GNWT staff and I don’t have any problem with that, I have faith in the staff that are doing the work, but I do have a concern in that I don’t believe there are any terms of reference or any guidelines for staff to work with in making these awards. So I’d like to know if the Premier can tell me or if the Minister can tell me that when the staff are looking at the awarding of funds for the NGO Stabilization Fund, what criteria do they use to make those decisions. Thank you.

Question 238-16(5): Funding And Assistance For NGOs
Oral Questions (Reversion)

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Premier

The criteria used, again, we’ll get that information for the Member. There is work ongoing in that Stabilization Fund. Applications did go out and I believe they’re near making decisions as to where that would go. As well, I am informed that in November of this year there will be a forum for NGOs to go through some of this work. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Your final supplementary, Ms. Bisaro.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate the commitment from the Premier to get that information. I will look forward to that.

I did ask the Premier’s office whether or not there were criteria for the NGO Stabilization Fund and the answer that I got back didn’t indicate that there were any. So I would hope if there are some that the Minister will be able to get those for me.

I have stressed the need for long-term stable funding for NGOs. The Minister references a forum that is upcoming in November and that’s good to hear. Will part of the forum discussions, deliberations, will it look at and take into account the need for our NGOs to have long-term stable funding? Thank you.

Question 238-16(5): Funding And Assistance For NGOs
Oral Questions (Reversion)

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Premier

The information I have is that the forum is based on capacity building, sharing best practices, improving governance and management, and strengthening the working relationship with government departments. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Item 9, returns to written questions. Item 10, replies to opening address. Item 11, petitions. Item 12, reports of standing and special committees. Item 13, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 14, tabling of documents. Item 15, notices of motion. Item 16, notices of motion for first reading

of bills. Item 17, motions. The honourable Member for Kam Lake, Mr. Ramsay.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

WHEREAS Section 16.(2) of the Northwest Territories Human Rights Act provides that the Human Rights Commission is composed of such members, between three and five in number, as may be appointed by the Commissioner on the recommendation of the Legislative Assembly;

AND WHEREAS one of the five commission appointments expired on June 30, 2010;

AND WHEREAS another commission appointment was left vacant due to a commission member’s resignation;

AND WHEREAS the Board of Management is tasked with recommending individuals to the Legislative Assembly and the Legislative Assembly is prepared to make a recommendation to the Commissioner;

NOW THEREFORE I MOVE, seconded by the honourable Member for Monfwi, that the following individuals be appointed by the Commissioner of the Northwest Territories to the Human Rights Commission for the Northwest Territories effective November 1, 2010:

Mr. Roger Wah-Shee of the city of Yellowknife for a term of four years, and

Mr. William Turner of the city of Yellowknife for a term of four years.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. There is a motion on the floor. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Some Hon. Members

Question.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Question has been called.

---Carried

The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, Mr. Beaulieu.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

WHEREAS Section 61 of the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act permits the appointment of an Information and Privacy Commissioner by the Commissioner of the

Northwest Territories, after the approval of the appointment by resolution of the Legislative Assembly;

AND WHEREAS the Legislative Assembly considers the appointment of an Information and Privacy Commissioner essential to exercise the powers and perform the duties under the act;

AND WHEREAS the term of the Information and Privacy Commissioner expired on June 30, 2010;

AND WHEREAS the Legislative Assembly is of the opinion that the appointment of an Information and Privacy Commissioner should now be made to be effective on November 1, 2010;

NOW THEREFORE I MOVE, seconded by the honourable Member for Monfwi, that pursuant to Section 61 of the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act, that Elaine Keenan-Bengts be appointed as Information and Privacy Commissioner;

AND FURTHER, that the appointment be effective November 1, 2010.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. There is a motion on the floor. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Some Hon. Members

Question.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Question has been called.

---Carried

The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

WHEREAS Tabled Document 75-16(5) has been tabled in this House;

AND WHEREAS the Response of the Joint Review Panel for the Mackenzie Gas Project on the Federal and Territorial Governments’ Interim Response to “Foundation for a Sustainable Northern Future” requires detailed consideration;

NOW THEREFORE I MOVE, seconded by the honourable Member for Great Slave, that Tabled Document 75-16(50, Response of the Joint Review Panel for the Mackenzie Gas Project on the Federal and Territorial Governments’ Interim Response to “Foundation for a Sustainable Northern Future” be referred to Committee of the Whole for consideration.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. There is a motion on the floor. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Some Hon. Members

Question.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Question has been called.

---Carried

Item 18, first reading of bills. Item 19, second reading of bills. Item 20, consideration in Committee of the Whole of bills and other matters: Tabled Document 4-16(5), Executive Summary of the Report of the Joint Review Panel for the Mackenzie Gas Project; Tabled Document 30-16(5), 2010 Review of Members’ Compensation and Benefits; Tabled Document 38-16(5), Supplementary Health Benefits – What We Heard; Tabled Document 62-16(5), Northwest Territories Water Stewardship Strategy; Tabled Document 66-16(5), NWT Capital Estimates 2011-2012; Tabled Document 75-16(5), Response to the Joint Review Panel for the Mackenzie Gas Project on the Federal and Territorial Governments’ Interim Response to “Foundation for a Sustainable Northern Future;”Bill 4, An Act to Amend the Social Assistance Act; Bill 8, Social Work Profession Act; and Bill 9, An Act to Amend the Tourism Act, with Mr. Abernethy in the chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

I’d like to call Committee of the Whole to order. We have before us for consideration: Tabled Document 4-16(5), Tabled Document 30-16(5), Tabled Document 38-16(5), Tabled Document 62-16(5), Tabled Document 66-16(5), Tabled Document 75-16(5), and Bill 4, Bill 8, and Bill 9. What is the wish of committee? Mrs. Groenewegen.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We would like to proceed with the consideration of the capital for Municipal and Community Affairs, then move on to the Department of Justice. Time permitting, we would also like to go to Human Resources today. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Is committee agreed?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, committee. When we return from break, we’ll go to Tabled Document 66-16(5) with MACA, Justice and HR. Thank you.

---SHORT RECESS

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

I’d like to call Committee of the Whole back to order. Prior to the break we agreed we’d continue with Tabled

Document 66-16(5), NWT Capital Estimates 2011-2012, with the Department of MACA. So we’ll move to the Department of MACA to page 4-2. We are going to defer the first page, 4-2, and we’re going to move straight into detail. Is committee agreed, 4-4?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Okay. Activity summary, regional operations, Mr. Krutko.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Mr. Krutko, I apologize. I forgot to ask the Minister if he wanted to bring in any witnesses. Minister Robert McLeod, MACA.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Yes, Mr. Chair, I will, I would.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Committee agreed that we bring the witnesses in?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Agreed. Thank you, Mr. Minister. If I could get the Sergeant-at-Arms to please bring the witnesses in. I was just a little excited. Get on with it, you know? Good chair, good chair.

Thank you. Mr. Minister, can I please get you to introduce your witness.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have with me Mr. Mike Aumond, deputy minister of Municipal and Community Affairs.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Minister McLeod. We’ll go to Mr. Krutko, first on my list.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chair. My question to the Minister is in the area of a study that was done a number of years ago by the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs with regard to dust control alternatives. A cost-benefit analysis was done in 2005 by the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs. Back then, during the 14th Assembly, one of the big issues for the small communities was dealing with the area of dust control. Today we still have that same problem in our communities, especially when we talk about the health of our communities and the well-being of people in those communities.

I know the department has requested that the Department of Transportation, working along with the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs, reinstates such a program or initiative. So I would just like to ask the Minister or the deputy where we are when we find ways to deal with the dust problems we are having in our communities, especially the health of our communities and the problems they are seeing with dust. There have been studies done in Europe and other countries that definitely show a direct correlation between ailments like lung disease and dust in those particular communities. I think that’s something we

have to be aware of in the Northwest Territories. So I’d like to ask the Minister if his department has talked with the Department of Transportation or is working with the Department of Transportation and the local municipal authorities to deal with dust control.

Maybe just wrapping up, this program that went into place during the 14th Assembly, there were nine

communities identified. A majority of those communities have had some means of chipseal or were using different dust suppressants in the communities. But the communities that were chipsealed back then, most of them are at the sixth or seventh year of those streets being chipsealed. It has served its life. Now basically they have to either redo the streets or replace the chipseal with something else. So I would like to ask the Minister if the department has looked at coming up with a solution to this problem by working with the communities to deal with it.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Obviously, this is one we continue to hear about, is dust control. As we’ve heard from the Minister of Transportation earlier today, there is opportunity for communities to piggyback on work that’s being done on highways close to their communities. That means that they can get a better deal trying to access dust control. Chipsealing, more specifically, is one of the cheaper routes to go. There is an opportunity there for them. As far as MACA instituting the program, I’ve said on a number of occasions that communities now have it within their authority to have that as a priority to put that into their business plan. We’ve seen in some cases where communities are starting to identify dust control and putting it into their capital plan.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

I think the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs and Department of Transportation have a lot to offer in technical support and having the capacity in their different organizations to assist communities. Communities don’t have engineers. Communities don’t have the technical staff on hand. I think that’s where the departments can play a very important role in this. I’d just like to ask the Minister to find a way to assist with the human resources aspect of the engineering people who deal with the technical side of laying chipseal or dealing with the area of dust control for our communities.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

That’s one thing MACA sees their role as now, is to provide advice and expertise to the community or work with them to define the appropriate people to do the jobs. We see where our role is at now. I’ll actually have Mr. Aumond expand a little further on that.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Mr. Aumond.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Aumond

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have had some discussions with my colleague in Transportation and one of the things we discussed was an opportunity whereby we might use the quarterly granular forecast that we sent out to communities and then the Department of Transportation would, at the appropriate time, indicate in those quarterly reports to communities what their plans are for chipsealing so that communities can also plan to take advantage of them being in the location nearest them. Then MACA, of course, would also work with the community governments to help make that happen.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. Aumond. Mr. Krutko.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Again, in closing, this is more than just a dust problem; it’s a quality of life issue for our communities. I think that the communities that have had an opportunity to see the chipseal laid in our communities have seen the improvement in the quality of life in those communities. It also deals with the area of cleanliness and the ability for people to walk up and down the streets without having to worry about mud, dust, and being covered in those types of materials due to road traffic. I’d just like to ask the Minister that we don’t go back to the drawing board.

Like I said earlier, there was a study done in 2005 by EBA Engineering on behalf of the Department of Transportation. I think that’s where we should start. We should move forward and work with the respective departments of Transportation and MACA and the communities. Let’s move on this.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’ll commit to the Member that we’ll see about finding some of the old reports and dusting them off and seeing if there’s information in there that we could possibly use to assist communities in identifying dust control. I see I’ve got a copy coming already.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Next on my list is Mr. Menicoche. Just a reminder that we’re on page 4-4.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Municipal and Community Affairs has a lot of... Because I have the riding with the most communities, I often hear lots of concerns, especially during my last visit to the communities. They just revolve around the New Deal. The concern is that they’ve been operating for about three or four years now and they’re not really convinced that there’s enough O and M funding in there for them to run their communities. The biggest one for me is I hear consistently about the cost of street lighting. I’m not sure if it’s an arrangement with NTPC or not, but there is proof out there now

that the amount of money that’s actually funded for O and M for street lighting does not actually keep up with the actual costs. I’ve raised it during committee about when the New Deal will be assessed and re-evaluated. I think the Minister said it would be at the 10-year mark. I really think that we need an evaluation or mid-term evaluation soon to look at the O and M costs that the smaller communities’ concerns are realized or met. Perhaps someone from the department can do that.

The communities with the most concerns are communities like Wrigley, where they are currently in a co-management process. The community of Jean Marie River raised that with me, Nahanni Butte, and Trout Lake, of the smaller communities. Because of these realities, they really feel that they’re struggling to make their O and M needs met. In fact, they’re frustrated. Jean Marie River even said, take the deal back; only because they’re struggling with that. It may be a capacity issue. Has this been explained to them enough?

In some of my communities the reality, too, is that they’ve been changing management every six months. That’s not helpful at all. I believe MACA can be helpful, as well, in guiding the communities and letting them know how to best manage their communities. That’s why I feel that just because they’re changing management doesn’t mean that they have to run into financial troubles. I don’t know if all communities are using the same financial package for each community, but I believe we have to assist them more, because they are asking for assistance.

In terms of O and M and the maintenance of those communities and their assets, maybe the Minister can detail for me again what kind of, it will probably be complicated, but what is the basic formula, how was it derived. Did they use one year’s data, three years’ data, five years’ data? It sure doesn’t appear to be meeting the needs of the communities right now.

The last thing we want to do is have our communities in trouble. My communities are feeling stretched with the amount of resources that are transferred to them and they really don’t feel that it’s enough. Maybe the Minister can detail for me how the formula was reached, what kind of historical methods were used, what’s currently in place to assist communities that are feeling in trouble, and how do we best manage that. They continue to raise with me, on a monthly basis, that the street lighting costs are exorbitant.

Did the government have a different deal with the NWT Power Corporation than the communities have right now? A community like Wrigley, it’s said that I think in the line items it’s --I’m just rounding up figures here -- in round terms I think it was, like, $15,000 a month for power, but they’re actually paying $23,000 a month for the power to supply

street lighting. There seems to be a big aberration there.

Of course, that’s something in the details that when the community signed on the New Deal they can’t really see until they start experiencing it for themselves in a couple years’ worth of data. That’s a huge cost. They’re managing it. They did run into financial difficulties. They are in co-management at the community of Wrigley. They will probably be out of it in about eight months. However, just because they’re able to see things on a monthly basis, this is what they see.

For me it’s about, okay, if this is the reality, then let’s re-evaluate the New Deal as soon as we can or else re-evaluate, especially in the community of Wrigley, how they’re paying the power costs. They may even be thinking, okay, at $23,000 a month, that’s almost running the whole O and M for the NTPC for that month in the community of Wrigley. Is the payment out of line? It really has to be looked at and I urge the Minister to do what they can, not only for the community of Wrigley but all the smaller communities that are struggling to make ends meet with the O and M payments. There has to be an assessment done and I really feel it should be done sooner than later.

Just with that, if the Minister can comment on those questions I have and how we can best manage this situation.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. MACA will do what it can to work with the communities to assist them with some of the capacity challenges that they face working with LGANT and NWT Association of Communities. We’ve had the human resource plan that’s out there and it seems to be working well. We have people working with the smaller communities.

As far as the Member’s particular question goes, the actual formula for O and M, I’d be able to provide the details. The Member is right; it is quite complicated. It takes a lot of things into consideration. I have no problem providing the information to committee as to how some of the numbers were reached.

I could tell the Member, though, that as far as him wanting us to have a look at the different things, it is our intent in 2011-2012 to do an overall review of the New Deal. It’s been five years since it’s been in. We want to look at the capital funding allocation formula, how we reached that, and we also want to look at the O and M part of it. I can assure Members that this is something that the work will begin on very soon.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

The Minister said soon. Does that mean he’ll begin some work during the winter months evaluating those communities? It doesn’t

have to be a big thing. I think if they evaluate one community, pick one like Wrigley or any one of my communities in my riding and the concerns are going to be the same there. There doesn’t have to be a big study. They can wait and do their five-year evaluation. However, I think that the needs of a community like Wrigley have to really be examined and evaluated, because they are experiencing higher costs than the O and M that’s being provided in the New Deal. There has to be a reason for it, or perhaps it’s consistent. Perhaps there’s a root cause. That’s something I believe that work should begin immediately. I’d like to ask the Minister to consider that and put forward some kind of plan for this coming winter.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

We’ll have all the work completed by the end of 2011-2012 as far as all the evaluations go. We will continue to work with and monitor the communities. Some of the communities in the Member’s riding were band communities, so they’re fairly new at this. Some of these just became incorporated. The regional office has offered to work with the communities that have just come on, do another information session with them, and basically just give them more training as to what to expect and what their roles are. As far as the overall evaluation, that will be completed by the end of 2011-2012.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Next on my list is Mr. Beaulieu.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, just a few points. Some of my points are very similar to my colleague Mr. Menicoche. I have concerns with the street lighting as well. I’m not 100 percent sure if that’s now a community responsibility or a responsibly for the Power Corp. I’m still not 100 percent clear on that. I guess I’d ask the Minister if they could just go back and evaluate the whole area of poles and lights and so on, but the bottom line is to light up some portions of the communities that are in the dark in the wintertime. It is a little hazardous, no doubt about it, when you’re walking around in the dark and there are lots of fast moving snowmobiles and so on out there and four-wheelers. So it’s a concern. Some of the elders that are out exercising and walking have expressed the concern that they are not comfortable in walking on some streets that are completely in the dark. I’m not saying that this is the responsibility of this department necessarily, but I think this department would be a good place for us to start, and if it involves the corporation, that’s kind of outside of our mandates in here and the community, then this department could maybe spearhead something that eventually, at the end of the day, puts some streetlights up in the communities.

The other area of concern, which again I brought up before, is that I realize that the New Deal is going to

be evaluated in another year or so, but I think that certainly consideration should be given to annual increases to the capital. It’s not real common practice to sign an agreement that’s static for five years. It basically says here essentially signing to erode your own budget each year by at least the inflation rate. It’s something that I think that Municipal and Community Affairs, when they’re discussing the evaluation and then what’s going to happen in the next five years, if there’s another five-year deal signed, actually that’s something that certainly should be taken into consideration and something that MACA should be working on with the communities.

Then I have an actual question on the amount of money in the infrastructure contribution to hamlets versus a settlement when the only thing that changes is the name moving from settlement status to hamlet status but it’s the same community. That has occurred in Tu Nedhe twice this year. I think when the municipalities signed on to get hamlet status and the other one incorporated as a hamlet status, there was a thought that there would be more money all the way around, and I think there is, but I’d like to actually know what the formula is. Like, how do they determine it and what the actual increase would be.

My last comment is that when we evaluate after five years we should drop the name “new.” Just call it “The Deal,” because it’s been five years, it’s not new anymore. But that’s it, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Minister McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We’ll change the name from New Deal to Good Deal.

But going back to the streetlights, it’s the same thing as I responded to Mr. Menicoche. I mean, there are opportunities where the community can work with the Power Corp, but I take the Member’s point. Maybe we need to sit down with all parties that are affected by this, because it’s a whole ownership issue and that’s something that I think we need to clarify. So I would be willing to commit to the Member that I’ll try to get all the information clarified for him.

When you talk about settlement to hamlet, and even the Member had indicated that there is more money, and he’s absolutely correct. When you go from a settlement to a hamlet, the amount of money you get increases. I’m talking about the increases to the capital budget. I mean, with the overall territorial government capital budget coming down, it’s getting to be awfully difficult, but communities now have received a lot more than they’ve ever received before. I think it’s almost $12 million annually more than they used to receive before the

New Deal. It’s been one that’s worked out well for the communities.

We’re really encouraged by the communities, the projects that they’re doing. If they need a project a year or two down the road, they’re saving up their money, so there are opportunities for that. It is one that’s actually still fairly new, but I think the communities welcome “The Deal,” and once they get all the capacity challenges faced and taken care of, I think this is one that we’re going to see a lot of positive results come out of. There will still continue to be challenges, but MACA will do what it can within the department to assist the communities that continue to have challenges. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Minister McLeod. Next on my list, Ms. Bisaro.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just have a general question in regard to the infrastructure funding for communities. I think it’s well known, I don’t think it’s anything new to the Minister, that communities suffer an infrastructure deficit. Every community in the NWT, every community across Canada is suffering from a lack of infrastructure or aging infrastructure or infrastructure that needs upgrading and/or renovations. It’s my understanding that the amounts of infrastructure contributions to communities have been the same amount for about five years. There hasn’t been any increase for quite some time. It’s also my understanding that at this time, or maybe soon to be happening, that there may or may not be a review of the infrastructure contribution formula, that formula that MACA uses to determine how much money each community gets.

When I asked the question or made some comments at the start of this capital budget, I was advised that there is a review perhaps happening biannually. I’d like to ask the Minister or the deputy minister, when will the current infrastructure contribution formula for communities be reviewed to see whether or not it’s still applicable to today’s economics and the numbers of infrastructure buildings that communities have. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. That’s similar to a question that was asked earlier today. Minister McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There was a commitment to review the overall New Deal after five years. Budget year 2011-12 will be the fifth year, and in the fiscal year 2011-12 all aspects of the New Deal will be reviewed. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you to the Minister. My apologies. I was listening but I obviously didn’t listen very well. I didn’t hear that question earlier.

Five years seems like an awful long time, though. With communities taking over government buildings which used to be handled and maintained by

GNWT and they’re now taking them over, and it’s happening more and more as communities get more used to having the autonomy and the responsibly and the control over their own assets, it’s something which I think the department ought to consider, whether or not five years to review is too long a time. I would think, particularly for infrastructure, there ought to be a review of the formula in a much shorter period of time than five years.

I appreciate that the Minister says we’re going to get a review in 2011-12, but that means there won’t be any change probably until the next budget. That’s probably too long away and I would encourage the department to start the review in this budget year so that we can get some kind of an increase. It may have to be a supp so we can get some kind of an increase in the fiscal year 2011-12 within that actual year. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Five years was the initial program. The initial review was going to come five years after that. I mean, who knows? It may be something that could be done, as the Member says, biannually. Five years, actually, was one that was agreed to in concert with the NWT Association of Communities. They felt that was a fair length of time, because there was a lot of responsibility devolved to the communities and thought five years would be a good indication of how this was working and doing a review and see where we need to go from there. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Just a quick follow-up. I’d like to know from the Minister whether or not there is any possibility that the review could be started and could actually be done between now and the end of March of 2011, which would be the end of this fiscal year, so there could be an evaluation of the current infrastructure contributions to communities, that there perhaps could be an amendment to those contributions, an increase, hopefully, and that we could maybe fund that by way of a supp in the next capital year. So basically I’m asking if we can increase the $28 million that’s showing in this capital budget in ‘11-’12. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

It’s not our intention at this time to increase the $28 million. Part of the challenge is capacity within the department. We still have a lot of the federal money that we’re working with. Again, we feel that five years is a sufficient amount of time to evaluate the progress of the New Deal and see where we need to go from there. If it means increases, then that’s something that we’ll have to come back to the Assembly for. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

I’m disappointed in that answer. I’m not asking for a review of the total aspect of the New Deal, but simply a review of the infrastructure contribution, the capital part of contribution that this government gives to communities. I think that

certainly could be done between now and the end of March.

We do supplementary increases for all manner of things, and communities and their capital structures are a huge part of the Territory and our residents, and they’re the basis on which most of us survive and live. So I would really encourage the Minister to rethink and just evaluate the infrastructure contribution formula only by March 31, 2011. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

We could evaluate the infrastructure agreement, but it’s not our intent... I mean, we’re looking at three or four months to try and get this in. So it’s not our intent at this particular time to try and make an increase to the infrastructure budget until we do the overall evaluation. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

I understand, I understood the statement the first time, but I guess I have to encourage you to change your intent, which you’re not willing to do. So I will agree to disagree with you. Thank you, that’s just a comment.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Just a comment. I have nobody else on my list. We’re on page 4-4, activity summary, regional operations, infrastructure investment summary, total infrastructure investment, $28.002 million. Agreed?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Okay, that concludes our detail. Can we go back to page 4-2 to do the summary page? Municipal and Community Affairs, department summary, infrastructure investment summary, total infrastructure investment summary, $28.002. Agreed? Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I don’t think it quite concludes. We were on regional operations and we had community operations to conclude.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

I don’t have anything on that page. Thank you, Mr. Bromley, there is no dollar figure on that page so there’s nothing to discuss. Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I request permission to go back to 4-4. I understood that there would be questions on 4-7, but I would like to ask one on 4-4 in the absence of that opportunity. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Is committee agreed we go back to page 4-4?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you. Go ahead, Mr. Bromley, on 4-4.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I wanted to bring up something that I have brought up in the past with this department. That’s that it’s not really

fair for communities with greater capacity, due simply to their size, to be the sole beneficiaries of reduced costs and greater local benefits associated with higher building standards and efficiency standards. I think that nor really is it fair that use of NWT funds, tight as they are, should be directed towards inefficient infrastructure. So once again I would like to ask this Minister what has been done to introduce the building standards that the larger communities enjoy and that the GNWT enjoys along with the reduced costs of operation and the greater local economic benefits associated with labour intensive work on efficiency and so on. What are we doing to start setting those building standards for communities that will bring those benefits? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The communities have all submitted their energy plans and we continue to share best practices with them. The Member talks about the large communities as opposed to the smaller communities, and I give the smaller communities a lot of credit. I mean, they know their communities, they know that if they build a building that meets all the standards, that’s very efficient, that it’s a benefit to them and I can’t see a lot of the communities... I believe those days of building a building where the air just flows right through are long gone. So I give the communities a lot of credit and I think they’re doing an excellent job of working with the Arctic Energy Alliance coming up with their energy plans. So they realize that there’s a huge savings to them too, especially to some of the smaller, more isolated communities where things cost a lot more. They, I think, realize that it’s beneficial to them to build a good quality building, because it’s obviously going to bring their costs down. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

I’ve heard this line repeated often by this Minister, so I would like to ask, would this Minister commit to providing Members with documentation that in fact all of the community infrastructure being put in by communities are meeting the NWT standard of 25 percent better than the model in the National Energy Building Code?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

The line that I’ve repeated often is that I give the communities a lot of credit for putting in good quality infrastructure. We don’t regulate the standards, so we’d be unable to provide that information to the Member. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

My understanding was that Municipal and Community Affairs worked closely with communities on infrastructure advising. Is this Minister saying that he does not know and cannot determine what quality of buildings are being put into our communities?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

We’re well aware of the good quality of buildings that are going into our smaller communities. The Member was talking about building standards. I was saying we didn’t regulate building standards. We don’t impose it on them. It’s basically a community’s decision and the communities are knowledgeable enough to realize that they need to make a good investment into sound infrastructure to help their overall cost in the long run. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

I’ve heard this line many times from this Minister and I’m looking for evidence. I think we’re an evidence-based government and I would like to request that the Minister provide Members with the degree to which community infrastructure is meeting the NWT standards. I’m not asking him now in this question to introduce standards, I’m asking him to provide evidence for the statement he repeatedly makes.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

These are government assets and we work with the communities to advise them of best practices.

I think as you go travelling to more of the smaller communities, you’ll see the standards of building that they have put in. I think they’re being standard. If the Member’s looking for blueprints or plans, it’s maybe something that I would have to work with the communities to see what we can provide to the Member.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

I appreciate that offer to work with communities to provide that data. Thank you. I’ll expect that soon.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Just a comment. I have nobody else on my list. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’m wondering, in our advising to communities, what are we doing to bring the concept of full-cost accounting to communities so they actually can bump up their capacity to that of the larger communities and understand the benefits that can accrue with a higher building standard approach and energy efficiency approach. Are we offering courses on full-cost accounting? The reason I ask that is I am often met with sort of blank looks when I try to bring up that discussion. I know the department has a School of Community Government. Do we have courses such as that? What action is being taken to ensure we’re putting good infrastructure in place?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Mr. Aumond.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Aumond

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We sort of have a multi-pronged approach when we work with communities on developing their infrastructure and how they acquire that infrastructure and how they construct that infrastructure. As the Member is aware, each community has an energy plan, a

capital plan, and we work with the Arctic Energy Alliance to try to marry those two plans together to come up with a good capital plan that’s sustainable over the long term for the community. In support of that, through the School of Community Government, we do offer communities training in the areas of asset maintenance to help them maintain the assets that they have, not only to an applicable code but to get the best value for costing that they can out of the assets that they do procure and they do construct. We also try to take the view, work with the community and their vision. If their vision is to have a sustainable community, which we encourage them to do, is to work over a long-term plan to achieve their vision. We work with communities to get the best value for the money that we do provide them and the money that they also raise themselves.

There’s nothing that’s going to happen tomorrow or the next day across the Territories. It will be a slow, steady, methodical march towards achieving their vision. As new supports are required from MACA, we will endeavour, through the School of Community Government, to provide those supports to the communities.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

I guess to summarize, would that be a no, we are not providing any explanation or education on full-cost accounting?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Aumond

We do not have a course specific around full-cost accounting, but certain aspects of the concept that the Member is articulating are embedded in the courses and training that we provide to communities.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

I appreciate that. The last part of this is that the deputy minister mentioned the community energy plans and I think the Minister did too, and the capital plans. Were there any standards provided to be met in the development of those plans in terms of energy efficiency or whatever?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Aumond

There were no specific standards that communities were asked or demanded to adhere to other than the regulated codes that are applicable to, and depending the type of asset they wish to construct. Communities were, however, encouraged, depending on what their vision was in this area, to be the best they could be. We shared best practices not only from the larger communities that we have here in the Northwest Territories, but also some of the smaller ones. The Minister alluded to it earlier, that costs are high enough there that people already have the incentive to be as efficient as they can. In terms of formal standards, none were demanded of the communities.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. Aumond. Mr. Bromley, your time has expired, but I will allow you one more question. You’re good? All right. We’re on page 4-4, activity summary, regional

operations, infrastructure investment summary. Mr. Ramsay.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just a couple of things. I guess, first of all, I wanted to ask the Minister if he could provide an update to the House on the situation at Northland Trailer Park here in Yellowknife and whether or not there’s been any plan formulated on how to deal with the infrastructure requirements of that trailer park here in Yellowknife.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The City has made application to the federal government for some of the Green Fund, and we have supported that and are waiting to hear back from the federal government.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

I look forward to hearing back on how that rolls out.

Just a couple of other things. I just wanted to voice my concern over the dusty conditions in small communities. I’ve had the honour and the privilege to serve in this House for the past several years and the opportunity, as well, to travel to a number of small communities. We get in there oftentimes in the spring or summer. The thing that is always... I’m left with the impression that things are really dusty. It detracts from the quality of life in our small communities. I think the department, we can try to put it all back on the communities, but I think at the end of the day the Government of the Northwest Territories has an obligation to partner with the communities to get, in a meaningful way, dust suppression occurring in our small communities around the Territory. I would be very supportive of a program that would enable that to happen and trying to find the dollars to make that happen. It’s a health issue for people with respiratory illness and it also leads to increased incidents of respiratory illness in small communities. It would build up pride in the communities. I think equipment would last much longer.

It was about three or four years ago we were in Tulita and they had applied, I think it was E35 dust suppressant chemical to their roads. What a difference that made walking around the community and vehicles driving around the community, not throwing up the dust you would normally see. It’s something we should pursue as a government. I really do believe that’s the course of action we should take. We should try to find the dollars to make it happen. If we’re not going to, and this is the last time we’re going to go through this process as the 16th Assembly, if we’re not going to do it, I’d like

to see that included in a transition document for the next government to actively pursue that for small communities.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Tulita was a good example. There are a couple other communities that I’ve been in where the communities took it upon themselves to deal with the dust control. They’ve actually done a very good job. Jean Marie River I think this past year has put a dust suppressant down that I understand has worked quite well. Fort Providence as a community did some groundwork and they’re going to do some chipsealing next year.

Communities are starting to realize that it is a health issue, as the Member and a few other Members have mentioned. They’re starting to include it in their capital plan. We’re starting to see some good results out of this. I think as more and more communities in the future realize they have the authority to determine, well, yeah, let’s put dust control in, I think we’ll see more communities doing that.

Part of our role at MACA would be assisting them with some of the expertise and some of the costing and just giving them an indication of how much it may cost to apply the materials.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

I agree the communities should be partners, but I really think, and my belief is, that the Government of the Northwest Territories, in some way, shape, or form, has to be there with dollars. I know the New Deal is there, but communities are being forced to decide on important community projects over dust suppression, and oftentimes the dust suppression doesn’t quite get to the top of the list, even though I spoke of the benefits of having dust suppression. We need to come up with a way to fund in partnership with communities if they want to have the GNWT partner with them. I’m talking about some substantial dollars, not just hundreds of thousands. It’s probably going to cost the government $3 million or $4 million to do it in a meaningful way in partnership with communities. That’s something I’d like to see happen. I know the Minister is trying to say the communities get their money and they should do it, but what I’m saying is the communities get their money. Let’s find some of our money, partner with them and do it in more of a meaningful way so that we ensure it gets done in some of the small communities. That way it will get done.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

The communities have used some of their infrastructure dollars that they get from this government. Some communities have an opportunity to use the gas tax money that they get. Some have used Building Canada Fund money to do some of the work on their roads. As a department we have absolutely no infrastructure dollars. I mean, $28 million right down to the last $2,000 goes to the communities. We leave it to them. If there are ways to identify or go after more funds to assist the communities, then that’s something that MACA is always going to do. If

there’s federal money available, it’s something that we continue to try and get our hands on as much money as we can and then we’ll flow that to the communities.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Mr. Ramsay. We’re good. We’re on page 4-4. Mr. Krutko.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

One of the other areas that I think we as a government need to put a lot more focus on is the fire departments and training that is required in communities, especially looking at front-line workers and the people who have to deal with them. In most cases it’s a volunteer fire department. A lot of people volunteer, but they need the training. They need the capacity to do their job. They need the equipment to make sure that when they put their lives at risk responding to a fire, we equip them with the equipment they require. The same thing for ambulance services on the highways. We do have to work with communities and community governments and the local fire chiefs and volunteer firefighters in the communities to give them the capacity and the tools to do it. A lot of it falls under the fire marshal’s domain. With having the fire marshals going into our communities, that’s something that’s required.

I’d like to ask the Minister what we’re doing to ensure the communities have the capacity to respond to fires in their communities, that people are qualified with training for local firefighters, volunteer fire departments, and giving the communities the capacity to respond to highway accidents and making sure that they have some means of dealing with the ambulance services of some type, which in most cases are handled by the local volunteer fire department.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I couldn’t agree with the Member more on the need for improving our training to fire departments and assisting them with training. There’s a whole new program that’s coming forward. We’ve identified the need to improve the training that we provide to small communities. The assistant fire marshals in each region are coming up with training plans and we’ve identified some dollars that would be put towards this, obviously pending Legislative Assembly approval. It is one that we’re quite aware of and we know that communities are challenged, so I think we’ll see after the next fiscal year a move towards more regional-type training, working with the assistant fire marshals, going into the communities and working with them to identify some of their needs, some of their equipment. It is one that we recognize is quite a challenge and we’re moving in that direction and starting to work with the communities to deal with them. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Just a reminder to Members that we’re talking about capital here today. Mr. Krutko.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My question is around the area of capital with regard to fire equipment and making sure people are equipped to do their job. More importantly, we had an instance here in Yellowknife where two firefighters lost their lives. There was a major review done on that through the Workers’ Compensation Board. There was, basically, an injunction filed against the City of Yellowknife because of the incident, and there were a whole bunch of recommendations that came out of that inquiry. I think, if anything, we should learn from that and make sure that we do give those firefighters all the support we can and, more importantly, that they have the training that they need to respond to a fire and when they find themselves in a dangerous situation.

Again, I think it’s important that we, as government, who are responsible for giving the volunteer firefighters the tools and the equipment and the training that they require, but more importantly, with the situation that occurred here in Yellowknife, and again because of that, it’s an incident that we don’t want to happen anywhere else, and more importantly, we have to learn from that, and more importantly, take what the recommendations that came out of that inquiry, and more importantly, put them in place so that we do protect our firefighters throughout the Northwest Territories.

Again, I’d just like to ask, what are we doing as a department to follow up on those recommendations that were put in place and also in regard to the consequences of the review by the Workers’ Compensation Board and, more importantly, the recommendations that came out of that inquiry and ensuring that we are following those recommendations going forward. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Minister McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Part of the duties of the assistant fire marshal will be going into the communities and assessing some of their equipment, working with the communities to identify the life of their equipment, and possibly working with the communities to put that equipment into their capital plan. Obviously training, as the Member said, is huge. No point in having a fire truck in the community if you don’t have the training for it. That’s where we see in this part of the new program that I had mentioned to this House a few minutes ago, is training is a huge part of it and it’s something that we’re focusing on, and I think in the coming fiscal year we’re going to see progress in the area of training. That way, we don’t have situations where we have firefighters that are

untrained trying to operate equipment, going into buildings. We want to make sure that we stay away from that. It is something that is in the works. Equipment is a huge part.

I’ve been in a couple small communities where they’ve shown me the equipment that they’ve had and how they need to be trained to operate it. We take those very seriously and that’s part of why we wanted to make sure we had all the proper training in place for the equipment that’s there. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

My final question is: How many fire departments do we have certified at this time? That are certified, that are trained and do have the certification required to actually be certified firefighters in our communities.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

I’m not expecting those folks’ questions. We don’t have the information, but I would be willing to provide the information to the Member as to the number of fire departments we have and what kind of capacity they have. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Minister McLeod. We’re on page 4-4, activity summary, regional operations, infrastructure investment summary, total infrastructure investment summary, $28.002 million.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

We’ll go back to the summary page 4-2, Municipal and Community Affairs, departmental summary, infrastructure investment summary, total infrastructure investment summary, $28.002 million.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Does committee agree that we have concluded MACA?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Minister McLeod, on behalf of committee, I’d like to thank the witnesses for coming in for today. If I could please get the Sergeant-at-Arms to please exclude the witnesses, that would be great.

Next on the agenda is the Department of Justice. Minister Lafferty, do you have witnesses that you’d like to bring in today?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Yes, Mr. Chair, I do.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Minister Lafferty. Does committee agree that we allow Mr. Lafferty to bring in his witnesses?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Sergeant-at-Arms, if I could please get you to escort the witnesses into the Chamber.

Thank you. Minister Lafferty, if I could please get you to introduce your witness for the record.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. I have Bronwyn Watters, the deputy minister of Justice.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Minister Lafferty. We’re going to defer page 7-2 until we have completed the detail. Is committee agreed?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

We’ll move along to page 7-4, activity summary, community justice and corrections, infrastructure investment summary. Mr. Krutko.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In regard to community justice and corrections, one thing that we’ve been pushing for years from a community perspective is having more say in the judicial process, but more importantly, finding ways instead of incarcerating people in large facilities, to start looking at community-based justice programs and incarcerating people closer to their homes, either on-the-land programs or also working with community justice committees in regard to having community sentencing circles. I’d just like to know where is the community involvement when it comes to community justice, because it seems like we’ve strayed away from the old notion of on-the-land camps by way of offering inmates opportunities to serve out their sentence in wilderness camps and also looking at programs such as the program through the Tl’oondih Healing Society in regard to a transitional justice program for people to transition out of the justice system back into their communities. I’d just like to ask what are we doing in regard to those types of initiatives to include the communities in the justice system.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Minister Lafferty.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. This has been an area of interest to the Member and also the Members as well. The community-based programming has been very successful to date in the Sahtu region. It was unfortunate that we lost an elder, but the program still continues. It is open to other regions, as well, if they are interested in pursuing the community-based programming to deal with the corrections offenders.

We are currently finalizing our review of the community justice programming and we felt that we needed to undertake that review to find out which community is not working effectively and probably needs some support, and which community has been very successful. Those are in the final stages and we will be sharing that review with the Members next month, in November. That is the feedback from the communities, the people that are involved.

We definitely want to have the community involved when there are offenders from the communities,

how we deal with those offenders so they can be reintegrated back to the community.

The Sahtu region, again, has been very successful to date. We want to continue that process.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Chairman, again, the communities want to be involved in the justice system. They want to do their part in regards to finding ways to bring down crime rates in our communities and also trying to deal with the biggest affects on incarceration in the Northwest Territories. It is basically alcohol and substance abuse. Most of our communities have taken it on themselves. Two communities I represent, Aklavik went for a plebiscite last year but didn’t quite make it. Again, our communities are trying to do their part by bringing forward plebiscites by saying we don’t want alcohol in our communities. If we do, we want to have some controls in place, but more importantly, we want some means of prohibition to not to be seen to not doing anything, but doing their part also through the hamlet council, the band councils, the community leaders and also enable to work with the Department of Justice, the local RCMP, local detachments to assist them in doing their jobs to improve the quality of life in our communities.

I think that is something that we really have to focus on. Look at the justice system, not from the corrections system and Supreme Court or courtrooms, but look at it from a community perspective outwards and how we can look at justice that flows out of our communities, deal with the problems of crime in our communities and find preventative ways to prevent crime in our communities.

I know we spend millions of dollars in corrections forces. We are spending millions of dollars in regards to incarceration. Is there a possibility of looking at pilot projects with those communities, invest some of those dollars to keep those people who basically may have challenges?

We have a high number of individual inmates in jail with FAS, no fault of their own. It is basically a problem we see throughout our whole system. I would like to ask the Minister and the department, is there a possibility of doing a better job working with communities to find solutions to these problems and reinvest some of those dollars than having people incarcerated, have community-based solutions to bring down our crime rates and prevent crime in our communities. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. I’m not sure that is capital. It sounds more like O and M, but I will go to the Minister for a response.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. I, too, would like to see more money. The Member is referring to millions that should be

going to the communities. I do agree with that. If we can develop preventative measurements, preventive programs, that is what our vision is, I do believe, with the Members and also our department. That is the very reason why we are doing an overall review. With the outcome of the review, of course, it will take some investment to make some changes.

We want to have community members involved as well. We do have coordinators and community justice committees that are in some of the communities that were in place, established, working effectively. Some weren’t. Those are the areas that we will continue to strengthen. I think out of this particular review, we want to strengthen our Community Justice Program, which the Member is referring to. Most definitely we want to see more programming to the communities, because I am a firm believer, also, that prevention is the way to go and try to prevent even the young ones going through the court process creating more criminal records. We need to prevent that from happening.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Chairman, we do spend millions of dollars in correctional facilities. I notice that we are looking at more money going into correctional facilities. I think that we have to reprofile those dollars to make use of those facilities that are useable.

Like I mentioned, the healing camps. We are also looking at alternative means of having people that basically have minor offences, that they don’t have to serve their time, taking them out of the communities, find a way that they can serve their time in our communities than having all of these expenditures made to fly these people out; court costs, incarceration costs, a cost of $85,000 a year to keep someone in jail. That $85,000 could be invested in our communities to keep those people at the community level, work with the communities to work with these individuals and make the positive choices in their lives and turn their lives around and find solutions at the community level. For $85,000, we probably could do a lot more in our communities than being able to have a person incarcerated in a larger facility such as Hay River and YCI. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mr. Chairman, this could be part of other departmental initiative as well. We are currently working with Health and Social Services. As the Member did touch on FASD and FAS, the clientele that we have and we do recognize that there are in a system in Fort Smith. There are certain programs for them as well. But with incarceration of certain individuals does cause costs to our department at the correctional level. One of the focuses will be possibly to divert the funding to the community programming. That is our goal. We continue to work with the judges, the NWT Supreme Court judges, to identify the importance of

having community-based programming. Again, we have been successful in achieving that. We want to do more of that in the regions.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Chairman, the last issue I would like to talk about is community policing -- my favourite subject -- for Tsiigehtchic. I know this issue has been bounced around this House for a number of years. I would just like to get the Minister to give me an update on what is the status of community policing for Tsiigehtchic. There was an issue around housing in Fort McPherson getting an extra member. I would like to know. Can you give me an update on what is the status of that? When can we see police services in Tsiigehtchic by way of the Fort McPherson detachment?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mr. Chairman, the policing services have been provided from out of Fort McPherson. I need to get more detailed information as to the specifics of where it is now. I will get that to the Member.

Mr. Chairman, this particular issue has been brought to my federal/provincial/territorial colleagues just last week. I did raise communities without detachments. We do have them in the Northwest Territories. Again, pressuring the federal government of the importance of it. We also talked about First Nations policing policy as well. It is all interrelated to the communities without detachments. We are doing what we can to provide policing services and will continue to do so. We will provide more detailed information to the Member. Mahsi, Mr. Chairman.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Next on my list is Ms. Bisaro.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just have a question with regards to facilities for women prisoners. Social Programs committee has been discussing with the Minister and the department for some time now the need to renovate, rebuild, build a new facility for women prisoners in Fort Smith. I would like to know from the Minister if he can give me an evaluation of the state of the women’s correctional facility in Fort Smith at this time. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Minister Lafferty.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mr. Chairman, with the Fort Smith, we are in planning stages but we are in the process of developing a schematic design that will be available I believe in March. Those are just preliminary works that are in place. But the overall plan is to expedite this process, because we know the female offenders in the facility in Fort Smith is in, of course, poor condition. We have had some escapes in the past. We definitely want to prevent that from happening. That is where it is at, Mr. Chairman. It is in the planning stages. Mahsi.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks to the Minister for that little summary. That was about what I had understood, that the facility is in extremely poor conditions and it really needs to be replaced yesterday, not a couple of years from now. I was somewhat surprised that there is no indication of any kind of money for the replacement of this facility, the women’s facility, in this particular budget. I appreciate that there is planning that’s ongoing at the moment, but when does the Minister expect that there will be some money in the capital plan to actually start the construction of a new women’s facility? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Ms. Watters.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Watters

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The funding for construction of a new facility for female offenders is, as the Minister has outlined, in the planning stages. We received planning funding this year. The project is now red flagged for consideration in the 2012-13 capital budget. So we’re anticipating capital construction funding in 2012-13. There is a year that’s always left between planning and construction. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you for the information from the DM. Mr. Chair, I move we report progress.

---Carried

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

I will now rise and report progress. On behalf of committee, I would like to thank Ms. Watters.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Can I have the report of Committee of the Whole, Mr. Abernethy.

Report of Committee of the Whole
Report of Committee of the Whole

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, your committee has been considering Tabled Document 66-16(5), NWT Capital Estimates 2011-2012, and would like to report progress. Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of Committee of the Whole be concurred with. Thank you.

Report of Committee of the Whole
Report of Committee of the Whole

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. A motion is on the floor. Do you have a seconder? The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Bromley.

---Carried

Item 22, third reading of bills. Mr. Clerk, orders of the day.

Orders of the Day
Orders of the Day

Doug Schauerte Deputy Clerk Of The House

Mr. Speaker, there will be a meeting of the Priorities and Planning committee at adjournment.

Orders of the day for Thursday, October 21, 2010, at 1:30 p.m.:

1. Prayer

2. Ministers’

Statements

3. Members’

Statements

4. Reports of Standing and Special Committees

5. Returns to Oral Questions

6. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

7. Acknowledgements

8. Oral

Questions

9. Written

Questions

10. Returns to Written Questions

11. Replies to Opening Address

12. Petitions

13. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills

14. Tabling of Documents

15. Notices of Motion

16. Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills

17. Motions

- Motion 18-16(5), Extended Adjournment of the House to October 25, 2010

18. Second Reading of Bills

19. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of

Bills and Other Matters

- Tabled Document 4-16(5), Executive Summary of the Report of the Joint Review Panel for the Mackenzie Gas Project

- Tabled Document 30-16(5), 2010 Review of Members’ Compensation and Benefits

- Tabled Document 38-16(5), Supplementary Health Benefits - What We Heard

- Tabled Document 62-16(5), Northern Voices, Northern Waters: NWT Water Stewardship Strategy

- Tabled Document 66-16(5), NWT Capital Estimates 2011-2012

- Tabled Document 75-16(5), Response to the Joint Review Panel for the Mackenzie Gas Project on the Federal and Territorial Governments’ Interim Response to “Foundation for a Sustainable Northern Future”

- Bill 4, An Act to Amend the Social Assistance Act

- Bill 8, Social Work Profession Act

- Bill 9, An Act to Amend the Tourism Act

20. Report of Committee of the Whole

21. Third Reading of Bills

22. Orders of the Day

Orders of the Day
Orders of the Day

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Clerk. Accordingly, this House stands adjourned until Thursday, October 21, 2010, at 1:30 p.m.

---ADJOURNMENT

The House adjourned at 5:10 p.m.