This is page numbers 5493 - 5530 of the Hansard for the 16th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was territories.

Topics

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Member has already referenced the Tourism Diversification Marketing Program and I guess for some time we’ve realized that the trends with regard to tourism have been changing and the demand for consumptive tourism has been moving more into the areas of ecotourism and adventure tourism. We developed a marketing program that we spent about $5 million over the past four years so that existing operators can develop new products and look at other opportunities. We have met with the barren-ground outfitters and they said that basically they couldn’t really use that program, although some of them had applied for it. We found more funding and developed a program specifically for the Sport Outfitter Marketing Program so that we can deal with them and their declining populations.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

The barren-ground caribou outfitters pumped millions and millions of dollars into the economy over the years here in the Northwest Territories. It would be an absolute shame to see that industry disappear with the caribou. The numbers are encouraging. The numbers are coming back. I hope and pray that those numbers do continue to trend upward. Those businesses need to be there when those numbers come back so that we can continue to inject the millions of dollars into our economy here in the Northwest Territories. I’d like to ask the Minister again if it is the intent of the government to provide any help and programming to the current outfitters that would see them bridge the gap between right now, where they don’t have tags, and sometime in the future when tags will become available once again.

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

This year we have $600,000 in the Sport Outfitter Marketing Program. We are using that money to assist not only the barren-ground outfitters but also the polar bear outfitters. We’ve allocated $300,000 for the barren-ground outfitters and there are seven barren-ground outfitters that are eligible to access the program. Four of the seven have accessed that program and are using the funds to put their lodges

into care and maintenance so that they can make sure they can still operate them at some future point. It is our intention to seek additional funds in the upcoming business plan and we will continue to go forward on that basis.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

The bottom line is I think the barren-ground caribou outfitters need a support. They need a champion on Cabinet. I would look to the Minister of ITI to be that champion and to bring forward a program that, like I said, is going to ensure that the businesses that we have here today, that pump millions of dollars, are going to be there. Hopefully the numbers trend the right way and we’ll get tags for them and continue to inject those dollars into our economy.

Again I would like to ask the Minister, I know he mentioned next year’s business plan, but it might be too late for some of the businesses that we have here. I think we need to get to work on this immediately. I’d like to ask the Minister if he’s willing to put some minds around the table and try to come up with a program that’s going to ensure that this happens.

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

We do have an existing program, the Sport Outfitter Marketing Program. We do also have other business programs. The majority of those programs are based on viability, so it would be something that probably wouldn’t occur unless they develop alternative tourism products that could be marketed. Depending on our government’s fiscal situation on a go-forward basis, we will continue to try to expand this program. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Your final, short supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate all the work that the Minister has done in this regard, but my belief is that it falls short of what is needed. Like I said, we need to find a program that’s going to bridge the businesses between right now and when they can get some tags. I don’t think the current program allows us to do that. I don’t think anybody at ENR is going to be standing up fighting for the outfitting industry here in the Northwest Territories. There needs to be a balance and, again, I think the Minister of ITI can provide that balance and get a program in here that is going to see the likelihood that this industry will continue to flourish here in the Northwest Territories at some point in time. Thank you.

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

As the department, we meet with the barren-ground outfitters on a regular basis to determine how the funds should be spent and we expect that other outfitters will be accessing this fund. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In the past I’ve brought this issue forward to the House. It’s an issue of contracting where our Public Works and Government Services has allowed someone to help them develop a tender, but at the same time they subsequently allow them to bid on the tender, and on a few occasions they have won the tender. The first one I’m going to note is when the water treatment program up in the North here had issued five contracts for water treatment. I had felt at the time that that was an unfair process that wasn’t open and honest. I’m concerned that another issue has come before me on my desk regarding another tender where a business in Yellowknife is concerned that somebody the government has used to help develop the tender process then went on and bid on the tender, and they won it.

Mr. Speaker, what’s becoming clear here is there’s a sort of unfair advantage being proposed by allowing the person who helps develop the tender and then to certainly turn around and bid on the tender. That may be perfectly legal, but it certainly doesn’t pass the smell test of what is perceived as fair.

Mr. Speaker, my question for the Minister of Public Works is: What is he prepared to do to ensure that we have clear guidelines for anybody who helps prepare a tender to ensure that they’re shown and treated in the same way, in a fair manner, than somebody who wasn’t involved in the development of that tender so there’s no unfair advantage?

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The honourable Minister of Public Works and Services, Mr. Michael McLeod.

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Minister of Public Works and Services

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have to assume that the Member is referring only to the contracts that fall under Public Works and Services and not the other departments. Mr. Speaker, it’s common practice across the government to confer and hire different companies that specialize in different sectors, different areas, different industries, to provide advice to help with the scoping and drafting of the project. The information shared is restricted to that process, especially if it’s a specific type of need, and there are really pretty rigid rules around how we do that. I don’t think that’s something that has been a big issue up to now. It’s been going on for many years and we had no real intent to change that. However, if the Member has some concerns, I’d be glad to hear from him. Thank you.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Speaker, I would like to hear from the Minister, because Public Works is simply seen as the safeguard for...(inaudible)...policy in the Government of the Northwest Territories. The Minister would be correct that individual

departments do have their own individual policies, but Public Works is seen as the centre of excellence when it comes to the area of recruitment and the rules to be followed by.

Mr. Speaker, the issue comes down to unfair advantage. You can’t tell the right side of the brain don’t talk to the left side of the brain when you go bid on a tender even though you tried to develop it. It’s a crazy way of saying please forget everything we did over the last month. Mr. Speaker, what safeguards does the Minister have in place, whether it’s rules or complaint processes, that should be established or are established, such as the Agreement on Internal Trade? What safeguards does the Minister have to protect those consumers who are in this type of problem? Thank you.

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Minister of Public Works and Services

Maybe the Member can’t tell his right side of the brain to talk to the left side of the brain, Mr. Speaker. There is a fairly sensitive process that we follow to ensure that the information that is shared with a company that is hired by us to help us draft the contract specifications is only relevant to what we need from them. We don’t ask them to provide dollar amounts. We don’t ask them for a lot of different things. There is an appeal mechanism. If there are concerns, I would like to hear from industry. The Member is raising a concern and I’d certainly like to hear more of what he’s hearing or what he’s concerned about. There is myself, our staff, who are more than willing to respond to any type of complaint. Thank you.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

As politicians we know that the power of perception, when something is seen or heard or certainly told, Mr. Speaker. My point being is that the power of perception here does not meet the “perceived to be fair” when it comes to the contract and tendering process, because we have no clear guidelines and appeal mechanisms. The Minister says they could appeal to the system, but that’s back to the finance director or, of course, go to the comptroller general, which shows no independence of our process. That was even highlighted by our Auditor General in her recent report regarding contracting, Mr. Speaker. One of the requests that committee supported was the development of an appeal process recognizing the Agreement on Internal Trade.

Mr. Speaker, where is this in the development of the government through its process to ensure that these contracts are seen as fair and are fair? Thank you.

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Minister of Public Works and Services

Mr. Speaker, the Member has raised concerns by the Auditor General that have been responded to. That information is public. That can be drawn down by the Member if he so wishes. I’m not really sure what the Member is concerned about. If it’s optics, well, I don’t know what we would do to change that

besides not allowing anybody that works for us, that helps us prepare a document or works for us a resource, to bid on these contracts. That’s really going to lock out a lot of good quality companies and that would be a concern. That would certainly increase our costs. I’d need to see more of the specifics that the Member is referring to. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Your final, short supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Minister didn’t answer the question, probably because he’s not aware of the answer. The fact is that I’ve had another business come to me and complain about government process and they’re concerned about if they raise it to the next level, that they’ll be treated in a biased way coming forward. I can give the Minister the example, but what process exists in today’s context that shows that there will be some independent evaluation that there is no nepotism when someone works to develop a tender and then subsequently wins it? We have nothing to show that we have clear demonstration of a process. Thank you.

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

I’m not going to respond to a document that he’s holding right in his hand and reading from and asks me to clarify what he’s reading. Mr. Speaker, the simple answer is we have not engaged in a process to review the system. If there are concerns, if there is a desire by a Member of this House for us to do that, we’ll certainly take that as recommendation. Up to now, it’s been an issue raised by the Member and we can continue that discussion if he so wishes. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I want to ask the questions to the Housing Minister. I know the Housing Minister made some statements about the program reviews and things that are going to see, hopefully, some changes for the good for people in the communities, especially with purchasing, renovating and housing and such. I want to ask the Minister in terms of speed of the process. However, I am still receiving a lot of inquiries and concerns about people purchasing houses in my region. As a matter of fact, there is one lady right now that wants to purchase her house; however, it is going to take longer than she anticipated. I am not too sure if there is any way that she could purchase this house without the support of the Housing Corporation in terms of financial dollars. Can the Minister help with this

situation so it could be rectified as soon as possible?

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. The honourable Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation, Mr. Robert McLeod.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If she is going to purchase a house without the assistance of the Housing Corporation, then she would be able to do that on her own. I am not sure where it’s coming from. If you go to the bank for financing, then you really have no dealing with the Housing Corporation unless it is a Housing Corporation unit that she is looking to buy. I need to get the information clarified with the Member before I can respond properly to it. Thank you.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, clarification I will give the Minister is that this lady wants to purchase a house; however, due to some complexities, I guess, within the policies of the Housing Corporation, it will take months to purchase this house. She is doing it all on her own, yet it seems like the Housing Corporation has a whole bunch of policies that speak of more frustrating for her in terms of purchasing this unit. Get it off their inventory so that they can build another unit that they would allocate to other people in the community. It is just very tiring for this person.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Mr. Speaker, if I am to understand the Member, he is talking that this lady wants to buy a house on their own and it sounds like it is a public housing unit that she is looking to buy. Okay, that has something to do with the Housing Corporation. I would have to follow up with the Member and get particular details. I know we do have a policy where we are trying to rid ourselves of some public housing units. As we bring replacement units on, we are trying to reduce our stock. If we can have people out there that are looking to buy their public housing units, then it is something that we will look at. I will get the particulars from the Member and I will assure him that I will follow up on it. Thank you.