This is page numbers 4333 - 4364 of the Hansard for the 16th Assembly, 4th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was community.

The House met at 1:36 p.m.

---Prayer

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Good afternoon, colleagues. Welcome back to the Chamber. Orders of the day. Item 2, Ministers’ statements. The honourable Premier, Mr. Roland.

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Premier

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, tomorrow is NWT Day at the Vancouver Olympics and the beginning of Northern Weekend. It will also mark the culmination of our participation and investment as a government in these Winter Games.

Our goal was to build an awareness of our NWT identity, to encourage healthy choices among our people and to promote and advance the development of a diversified economy. We wanted Canada and the world to know that the Northwest Territories is a dynamic Territory with immense economic potential, diverse cultures, world-class art and fine crafts, unique tourism opportunities and a great place to live.

Tomorrow evening a group of representative NWT performers will showcase our Territory at the nightly Olympic Victory Celebration. They will represent and celebrate who we are to a sold out audience at B.C. Place, as they have all week to representatives of the more than 10,000 journalists in Vancouver and the three billion television viewers around the world.

Mr. Speaker, the Olympic Games have given us an unparalleled chance to demonstrate to the world the reasons why the NWT is a great place to live, invest in and work, and our government has capitalized on this opportunity.

Members are aware of our successful partnerships in the creation of Canada’s Northern House, our official pavilion at the games. Its displays, activities and daily performances by NWT artists have become a smash hit.

In fact, I’m very pleased to note, Mr. Speaker, that Northern House has had more than 70,000 visitors to date, including more than 50,000 in the last week alone.

Our government has also worked hard to include a human component to our efforts. We have sent dozens of NWT residents to the games: as traditional games athletes, as performing artists, as visual artists, and as youth ambassadors. They are not only showing the North to the world, they are also broadening their own horizons and performing in front of larger audiences than they have ever seen before.

Mr. Speaker, I believe the NWT’s efforts at these games has been a gold media winning performance. Through the extraordinary hard work and commitment of individuals and participants either employed or sponsored by our departments of Education, Culture and Employment, Municipal and Community Affairs, Industry, Tourism and Investment and the Executive, we have taken full advantage of this rare opportunity and have realized a phenomenal return on our investment.

We have successfully created a presence that is informing and highlighting to visitors from all over the world the riches and opportunities of our Territory. NWT artists and traditional athletes have been drawing crowds throughout the games, and, Mr. Speaker, our Territory is receiving rave reviews from the public and the media alike. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland. The honourable Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Lafferty.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, tomorrow is a very special day for our Territory as we celebrate Northwest Territories Day at the Vancouver Winter Olympics.

Throughout the day there will be events and activities at venues like Canada’s Northern House to promote the people and culture of our Territory. In the evening our northern performers will take centre stages at B.C. Place in the heart of downtown Vancouver. This will be the main event of the Northwest Territories Day Victory

Celebration. During this event, the Northwest Territories Performing Collective will reveal, through traditional and contemporary music, stories and dance, why our Territory is such a great place to live, visit, play and work.

I can’t say enough good things about the performers and the show. Each member of the group has an incredible amount of talent and skill. Although they come from different cultural backgrounds they’ve all done a fantastic job of blending their influences and creating a distinctly northern performance. They’ve worked for months in rehearsals, making sure everything is perfect for when they take the stage at B.C. Place.

The show is powerful and full of energy. With the theme, The Drum – The Heartbeat of the North, reflects the many aspects of life in the Northwest Territories, from the importance of our cultural heritage to how we keep ourselves entertained during the long, harsh winters. I’m sure anybody who saw the preview of the Northwest Territories Day performance at the Northern Arts and Cultural Centre on February 7th shares my excitement about

tomorrow night’s show.

I want to thank the members of the Northwest Territories Performing Collective, the Inuvialuit Drummers and Dancers, youth ambassadors and the Dene and Inuit Games athletes for the great job they’ve done promoting our Territory in Vancouver. I also want to thank our partners at the departments of Municipal and Community Affairs and Industry, Tourism and Investment and everybody else behind the scenes who have invested so much time and energy in preparing for the Olympics. I want to specifically thank staff at the Prince of Wales Northern Heritage Centre for their support of the NWT Performing Collective.

I invite my fellow Members and all residents of the Northwest Territories to join me in sending best wishes to our performers as they make final preparations for tomorrow’s show. On Northwest Territories Day, the world will be watching. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. The honourable Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. McLeod.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to provide Members with an update on Northwest Territories participation in the Vancouver 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games.

Over the past several months, youth ambassadors and traditional games participants have spent many hours preparing to represent the NWT at the games. These individuals have shown great

determination in improving their knowledge on northern people, places and culture and activities, so that they may share this knowledge and understanding with the rest of the world.

Mr. Speaker, our youth ambassadors are fabulous representatives of the NWT. They will be placed in many different roles and in a wide range of activities. In each and every area, they will demonstrate that youth from across the North have great strengths and character, attributes required of our future leaders.

Our traditional games participants will spend countless hours demonstrating, showcasing and teaching Dene and Inuit Games to the many spectators, visitors and perhaps even some lucky Olympic athletes. All of our participants will be spreading the word that the North truly is a wonderful place to live, work and invest.

Mr. Speaker, the NWT’s participation in the 2010 Winter Games will also feature the NWT artists and performers. I would like to congratulate my colleagues, the Ministers of Industry, Tourism and Investment and Education, Culture and Employment for their support of the games and our northern talent.

Our team of young leaders are heading to Vancouver to showcase the NWT to the world. The unprecedented television coverage of the games means that many of these individuals will receive international exposure. Their effort over the last number of months has been outstanding and has certainly helped prepare them. I am confident they will be the best young northern ambassadors the world has ever seen.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask that all Members join me in congratulating our youth ambassadors and traditional games participants and wishing them good luck. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services, Ms. Lee.

Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Minister of Health and Social Services

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise today to announce that Aven Cottages – Territorial Dementia Facility will celebrate its official opening on this Friday, February 19, 2010.

---Applause

In our A Foundation for Change document, we talk about providing the right services, through the right providers in the right places. This capital project is an example of our government working closely with corporate and community partners and delivering a program that meets the acute dementia care needs of the residents of the Northwest Territories. It is

also about building a Health and Social Services system based on best practices.

Operated by Yellowknife Association of Concerned Citizens for Seniors, YACCS, the new facility will serve NWT residents as a centre for excellence for dementia care, with a total of 28 beds of which four are for respite care. A day program for five to seven residents will also be part of the program.

Mr. Speaker, the Territorial Admissions Committee is in charge of receiving and assessing the applications from all across the NWT for admission to this facility. The committee has already approved 12 residents.

The programming at this facility will be based on a “carewest supportive pathway delivery model.” This is an industry best practice which means that the residents will receive personal, home-like care in specially designed environments and also provide meaningful lifestyle activities for residents.

Mr. Speaker, this project started with a feasibility study in 2003 and the Department of Health and Social Services has invested $15 million for construction of the facility and will continue to invest in ongoing O and M funding. YACCS is expecting to admit residents to the facility in March of this year, with 38 fully trained people to provide service.

I would like to take this opportunity to acknowledge corporate partners and contractors for this project: YACCS, Diavik Diamond Mines, the City of Yellowknife, NWT Seniors’ Society, Nahanni Construction, Diamond Glass, JSL Mechanical Ltd. and Ryfan Electric Ltd.

There are many individuals and small businesses who have contributed to make this project possible and they will be recognized at the opening celebration. I would like to extend our thanks to everyone who have volunteered their time and donated money towards this project.

In closing, Mr. Speaker, I would like to add that this project has had enormous support from this Legislature. I would like to express my special appreciation to former Ministers of Health and Social Services, Honourable J. Michael Miltenberger and Honourable Floyd K. Roland and the many Regular Members of this House over the years for making this facility possible. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Item 3, Members’ statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, during my reply to the opening address last Friday, I stated that I would accept any ruling you made on the point of privilege made by Mr. Miltenberger. I do accept your ruling, Mr. Speaker, and had hoped to have a chance to address the matter immediately yesterday. Mr. Speaker, the issue of the Deh Cho Bridge is a serious and highly sensitive one, particularly for those of us who have watched the project evolve from the beginning.

During the in-camera briefing offered by Minister McLeod last week, I strongly urged him to issue a press release prior to the commencement of the House on Friday to enable all Members to debate this issue and let the public in on this very important matter. The Minister did issue a press release Friday morning and I thank him for that. As is now obvious, there were specific details included in the in-camera briefing that were not included in the Minister’s press release.

I did not and sometimes don’t always understand why certain pieces of information are more sensitive than others, but certainly I was not aware that some parts of the in-camera briefing were, in fact, intentionally left out of the press release.

Mr. Speaker, it is always a challenge in our system of government to manage and keep track of the information that is public, what is not public and even after my 15 years as a Member of this Assembly, I still miss things, and for that I do apologize.

This being said, Mr. Speaker, in expressing my concerns about the recent developments in the Deh Cho Bridge Project, I made reference to a specific number that was provided to the committee in camera, but not included in the Minister’s press release.

Mr. Speaker, I apologize to my colleagues for this oversight and to the Minister of Transportation. I have great respect for the privileges of this House and the important role that confidentiality plays in the work that we do. I hope my colleagues will accept the fact that this was not an error made in bad faith or with the intention to limit the ability of committees to do their work.

Mr. Speaker, I will continue to do my best, to be diligent in the future as I continue to monitor the progress and the management of the Deh Cho Bridge Project and work with my colleagues on this side of the House to hold this government to account on this project, to share with the public

what we can but to respect the committee structure and the privileges of this House. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Ms. Bisaro.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I want to pay tribute to the Yellowknife Association of Concerned Citizens for Seniors, or YACCS. YACCS was formed in 1983 by a group of Yellowknife citizens concerned about issues facing YK seniors and it’s governed by a volunteer board.

From its inception, YACCS has worked continuously to achieve its mission and that mission is building a supportive community for the health of seniors. YACCS first accomplishment was to plan for and build a long-term care facility. Aven Manor, which opened in 1987, is a 29-bed facility for NWT seniors who require nursing and/or personal care. Then in 1993, the first of YACCS two seniors independent housing projects was completed. Aven Court consists of six buildings, each containing four one-bedroom units which allow seniors to live independently. The second independent housing project was completed in 2007 and consists of four duplexes.

In between those two housing projects, YACCS, along with the community of Yellowknife, planned and built the Baker Community Centre. This facility opened in 1997, provides for the social and recreational pursuits of seniors and the community. It’s important to note that the building of this facility was made possible through a generous donation by Mr. Ed Baker. This centre is operated by the Yellowknife Seniors’ Society in partnership with YACCS. All of these facilities together form a complex located together on one piece of property close to downtown Yellowknife.

Last, but definitely not least, Mr. Speaker, is the soon-to-be opened Territorial Dementia Centre, Aven Cottages. This impressive, modern facility, which I had the good fortune to tour yesterday, has been a long eight years in the making. Formal planning began in 2002 and the official opening will be tomorrow, February 19, 2010. Without the visioning of YACCS and their recognition of the need for a dementia centre, Aven Cottages would not have been built. It was the persistence of this group of volunteers and their dedication to Yellowknife seniors that ensured this project came to fruition. Partnerships are crucial to all of YACCS operations and thanks must go to the GNWT Department of Health and Social Services, Yellowknife Health and Social Services, the NWT

Housing Corporation, Diavik Diamond Mines and the Yellowknife community for their ongoing support to YACCS operations.

So, Mr. Speaker, I offer my congratulations to the Yellowknife Association of Concerned Citizens for Seniors on their latest accomplishment and encourage everyone to get out and celebrate with them at the official opening tomorrow. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, Mr. Beaulieu.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Mahsi cho, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today, on behalf of the Tu Nedhe residents, I would like to take this opportunity to recognize a few people for the kind contributions and selfless acts during Christmas holidays.

Mr. Speaker, Christmas can be a trying time for families, particularly elders living alone or single mothers in small communities. For some of these, the Christmas Hamper Program provides the only opportunity to have a nice Christmas dinner with their family.

Mr. Speaker, each Christmas the Salvation Army here in Yellowknife runs a Christmas Hamper Program in collaboration with Air Tindi. They send over 25 Christmas food and toy hampers to the community of Lutselk’e.

Mr. Speaker, since being elected MLA for Tu Nedhe, I have assisted with getting the Christmas Hamper Program into Fort Resolution. This would not be possible without the tremendous effort of Donna Beaulieu in Fort Resolution. Donna singlehandedly takes on the task of identifying those in need and completes all the necessary paperwork or assists the people with paperwork and then, on top of all that, her and her spouse and children deliver the hampers to each household.

Mr. Speaker, the Christmas Hamper Program is an important program for some families in Tu Nedhe and is only made possible by the kind generosity and acts of these people.

I would like to take this opportunity recognize and thank those people; first and foremost the staff with the Christmas Hamper Program at the Salvation Army here in Yellowknife. Each year they work long hours making sure the hampers get to all the families in need. Secondly, I would like to thank Air Tindi for flying the hampers into Lutselk’e at no charge, and to North Best Foods for storing and assisting with loading the hampers for delivery to Fort Resolution and, of course, Donna and her family in Fort Resolution for getting the hampers to each household.

Mr. Speaker, because of the generous efforts of these people, Christmas for some residents of Tu Nedhe is much happier. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. The honourable Member for Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I represent the community that has the second highest percentage of households in core need. I often talk about health and transportation needs in my region. Today I will continue with housing needs in my region; housing and treaty rights, to be exact, through our ancestors.

People are looking to the intent and spirit of the treaty rights; treaty rights related to housing as explained by our elders whose parents and grandparents were encouraged to leave the land, move into town and live in homes that were built for them by government.

I heard from many of my constituents that the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation should be more patient with my people. They need to understand that English is a second language for many of us in my region. There needs to be a clear understanding and sensitivity as to how aboriginal culture functions and not to impose their way of doing business on the people. Staff need to take time to explain documents, use an interpreter if they must, or just use plain English. Sometimes people sign a document because they want a house...

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Mr. Yakeleya, your time for your Member’s statement has expired.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

---Unanimous consent granted.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

There is a misunderstanding later, because they do not fully understand what they’re signing for. We need to make sure that the NWT Housing Corporation receives proper orientation to understanding their clientele.

In closing, the issue of bringing up the treaty will continue until it is clear what was meant when the government asked for our ‘X’. We were promised, as the saying goes, as long as the sun shines, the grass grows, and the river flows. This is a good treaty.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. The honourable Member for Kam Lake, Mr. Ramsay.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to join my colleagues Ms. Bisaro and Ms. Lee today and speak about Aven Cottages Territorial Dementia Facility that will officially open tomorrow, February 19th .

I believe the facility is very strong proof of what is possible when people are willing to work together. The facility has been talked about for many years and is finally on the verge of its opening, which is very exciting for the city of Yellowknife and this Territory.

The facility will be a great asset in the services this Territory has to offer seniors with Alzheimer’s and other forms of dementia. This territorial facility will have 28 beds and be located directly behind Aven Manor. It will include four respite beds and will also accommodate a day program.

The building was also constructed through a partnership between Diavik Diamond Mines and Nahanni Construction. I’d like to thank both of those companies for their efforts in building this facility.

Aven Cottages Territorial Dementia Facility would never have been possible were it not for the vision of the Yellowknife Association of Concerned Citizens for Seniors, or YACCS as they are known. I want to thank the present YACCS board and all that have come before them for the work and effort they have made to make this facility a reality. I’d like to make special mention of the very first president of YACCS, Ms. Barb Bromley, whose dream it was to get this specialized facility located in the North.

In addition to the YACCS board I want to also mention the great work being done by a constituent of mine, Mr. Greg Debogorski, who is the executive director of YACCS. Of course, I would be remiss if I didn’t thank the Department of Health and Social Services and Minister Lee for the capital dollars required to construct the facility and their ongoing support to operate and maintain the facility.

The facility officially opens tomorrow, February 19th ,

and I would like to encourage everyone to come out and see the facility for themselves. In closing, I again want to thank all those involved in providing their efforts in getting this specialized piece of health care infrastructure here in the Northwest Territories.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Menicoche.

Nahendeh Housing Concerns
Members’ Statements

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today I’m going to continue my statement from

Monday and speak about housing problems in Nahendeh. In 2009 the NWT Community Housing Survey confirmed that Nahendeh tops the region with the highest rate of core need at 36 percent. This survey also reveals that 236 houses or 32 percent of total households are inadequate and require major renovation or repair. I am looking forward to seeing repairs completed on both public housing and privately owned housing.

However, in some cases homeowners are in arrears with the NWT Housing Corporation. In many cases it is because they still owe money from previous repairs of their homes. Some of these people claim that work was not properly done or was incomplete and thus they were not willing to pay for it.

I have not heard about the use of the independent appeal process that I spoke about for the last couple of years, and I’m not sure if it is actually functional, Mr. Speaker. If this process was accessible, I think that homeowners could make a case that their debt should be cancelled or reduced. Many homeowners who need repairs on their homes are still in arrears from previous repairs. If major house repairs are not completed, core needs will continue to escalate in Nahendeh. There must be a way this debt can be forgiven and required repairs be completed, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Nahendeh Housing Concerns
Members’ Statements

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. The honourable Member for Nunakput, Mr. Jacobson.

Jackie Jacobson

Jackie Jacobson Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the recent announcement regarding the Government of the Northwest Territories intent to transfer various administrative responsibilities back to the community housing authorities is long overdue, Mr. Speaker. For years, the community governments and Members of the Legislative Assembly have been urging the government to transfer these responsibilities to the local government.

However, during the transitional implementation period, the government must seriously review the important issues that impact how effective these transfers will be.

Firstly, the government must recognize the true cost of operations in the North, especially small and remote communities and provide necessary resources so local housing authorities can adequately provide administration. They should not view this as an opportunity to save money and to cut costs, Mr. Speaker. This government should provide equal resources at a minimum, that they would allocate to the community office of the GNWT staff. Any less would be unfair.

Secondly, this government must not transfer only problematic administrative responsibilities, they must transfer a complement of compatible administration. This would not only ensure efficiency, but would provide enough capacity and resources for local housing authorities to coordinate various responsibilities in a progressive manner.

This government says they are committed to community capacity building. This government has to start fulfilling these promises made earlier. Other Nunakput communities… Government administrative services at the community level would start making a dent in the problem. Each community must be given the money, resources and commitment needed to fulfil the roles that they have been assigned to do. Without that, we’re setting them up to fail. Mr. Speaker.

Housing is a core responsibility of this government, such as water, health, education and protective services; however, developments in government seem to contradict the principle.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

---Unanimous consent granted.

Jackie Jacobson

Jackie Jacobson Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, this government must get serious and tackle these real issues with real solutions. Mr. Speaker, I will have questions for the Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation at the appropriate time. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Jacobson. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I’d like to acknowledge the many performers that have gone down to the Olympics to showcase the Mackenzie Delta’s dancers and drummers.

Mr. Speaker, from Fort McPherson the Gwich’in Nation dancers, which consist of some 15 members from fiddlers such as Dennis Thompson and Michael Francis who are well known throughout the Northwest Territories, and also includes the Aklavik drummers and dancers who have showcased their drumming and dancing all over Canada and internationally. Part of the dance group includes some 12 youth and I think, Mr. Speaker, that shows how we’re passing on our culture and also retaining our dances in the Mackenzie Delta.

Mr. Speaker, these performers are the real ambassadors for the Northwest Territories with their performance and, more importantly, the carrying on of the culture and dances. On behalf of the people

of the Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Speaker, they are showcasing the North and the Northwest Territories to the rest of the world and they make us all proud.

Mr. Speaker, I’d just like to congratulate each and every one of them and, more importantly, wish them all the best as they do their best to represent the Northwest Territories at the Olympics. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I spoke last session on the opportunity for promoting our homegrown and new media industry. Since little has changed in the meantime, I will again try to convince the government to take advantage of this economic gift.

Every other national jurisdiction has acted on the evidence that a dollar spent in multimedia multiplies up to six times in local expenditures. We’ve seen Ice Road Truckers, Ice Pilots, productions that base their appeal on what no one else has: the magic of the NWT. They shoot their stuff with their crews then leave to do post-production, taking their money with them.

SEED program funding is doled out in meagre portions, ill designed for the realities of an industry that moves from project to project. We have a registry for film production businesses and that’s it.

The Canadian Media Fund recently held nationwide consultations for modeling its new $300 million Production Fund. Local producers attended. No ITI staff took time to attend. ITI turned down a request for help to attend national discussions on a specific northern fund component described by the fund president as “coming at a critical junction in the film, television and new media industry in the NWT.” A shot at a dedicated slice of the $300 million fund and we turned it down.

Let’s get serious here, Mr. Speaker. We have a precious, infinitely renewable resource: creative minds in a place like no other on earth. We know the amazing impact of film spending in local economies, the enviable success of Yukon and Nunavut territories and the approaches of every other jurisdiction. What we don’t have is meaningful and appropriate government support. In correspondence dating over years, our local producers, those who haven’t fled south, have been calling on this government to take simple steps. We need now a commitment from this government to carry out an independent assessment of the role a northern film industry could play in diversifying our economy.

The Minister has told me that an internal review is underway, whether resources are directed to the right areas and that recommendations will be made for the future. In carrying out that review I hope the Minister will see the need for more than a film commission that exists only on paper. We need expert industry minds to help us guide the development of their industry.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

---Unanimous consent granted.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

I am calling on the Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment for a commitment to meet with representatives of the NWT film and new media industry to discuss the actions that he will immediately take to begin setting up an NWT multimedia and supporting programs. I will be asking the Minister questions today, if I get the opportunity, on current support to the film and new media industry and his vision for its development. Mahsi.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today I’d like to talk about SCAN, that’s Safer Communities and Neighbourhoods Act. Mr. Speaker, a couple of years ago I raised this issue as a way and a means to deal with drug dealers in our communities. Mr. Speaker, I felt very strongly at the time that it is a way that our government can help support our government officials to help push back on the drug community.

Mr. Speaker, this is legislation that’s found in other places across Canada. It’s found in Alberta, Nova Scotia, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, even the Yukon, Mr. Speaker. It works in the Yukon by showing that the community can help stand up for itself. As many people know, the criminal process is quite a lengthy process that requires a lot of steps and it takes a lot of time. So when a person calls their MLA or calls the RCMP, they have to follow along in a lengthy process in order to show the drug dealers they’re not welcome there.

Mr. Speaker, the SCAN process is through a civil process and it allows steps for our officials to go in and put pressure on those drug dealers to get out of the neighbourhood. Mr. Speaker, it really is an empowerment of the community; you say that these types of people, these types of industries are not welcome in their community.

Mr. Speaker, the government showed its support by trying to move forward on this initiative, but it never made it quite all the way to the goal line and it

eventually died on the Order Paper of the last government.

Mr. Speaker, this government needs to show some vision going forward that we need to ensure that our staff, our officials and even the RCMP have the appropriate tools for the appropriate process and certainly the appropriate crime.

Mr. Speaker, I think it’s unfair that we watch these types of things grow in our community without tools that we can react in a timely way, because, like I say, when a constituent calls and complains about these types of things, sometimes they take months and even years to solve through the typical criminal process, but the SCAN legislation through a civil system would move much faster. Mr. Speaker, I think this Legislature could show its support by moving forward on this imitative.

Back in November I talked about the great work that the RCMP have been doing putting their finger right down on crime and making sure they catch them, such as those drug dealers and bootleggers. Mr. Speaker, I think it’s time that we continue to fill that toolbox full of appropriate tools to do that work that they could use in the system, again, to crack down on those bootleggers and drug dealers that really poison our community. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The honourable Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes, Mr. Robert McLeod.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Starting this evening in Inuvik they’re having their annual IRC native hockey tournament. This is a tournament that started some 20 years ago and with a small group of teams. It has grown into a fairly big tournament today.

On Friday night they will be honouring one of the founding fathers of the IRC Cup, who unfortunately passed away on Boxing Day. They will be dedicating the arena to Roy Ipana, who was a huge supporter of hockey in Inuvik. He was one of those guys who was just larger than life and you just expected to be around forever. You don’t appreciate how much these people bring into the communities until you no longer have them around. I want to commend the Town of Inuvik for acting very quickly in renaming the arena after a well-deserving individual.

I’d like to wish all the folks up in Inuvik and Mackenzie Delta the best of luck this weekend. Be very safe when you travel and honour Roy’s memory by playing hard and playing fair.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Item 4, reports of standing and special committees. Item 5, returns to oral questions. Item 6, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Premier, Mr. Roland.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Premier

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to welcome Ms. Weslosky to the House. Ms. Weslosky is the executive producer of CNBC weblog DealFlow that has a viewership of 88 million people. She is in the capital working on a series which will focus on the aboriginal business partnerships. She is joined by Mr. David Connelly, president of Ile Royale Inc., a management consultancy firm in Yellowknife. Welcome.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Bromley.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I also would like to recognize David Connelly, a resident of Weledeh.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Colleagues, I’d like to take this opportunity to thank all our Pages that have been working in the Legislative Assembly for us this week and I’d like to mention two from Hay River North, Scott Burrows and Jenna Aitken and Colleen Burros has come over to chaperone for them.

Item 7, acknowledgements. Item 8, oral questions. Item 9, written questions. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Ms. Bisaro.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I guess I should look at you when I lift my hand so you know I’m looking at you.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Some Hon. Members

Whoa....

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions are for the Minister responsible for the NWT Power Corporation.

1. What kilowatt hour rates has the NWT Power

Corporation charged to Northland Utilities in each of those communities where Northland Utilities provides the services within the community, from the year 2000 to present?

2. What kilowatt hour base rate has the NWT

Power Corporation charged to residential customers in each of its NWT communities from the year 2000 to present?

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Item 10, returns to written questions. Item 11, replies to opening address. Item 12, petitions. Item 13,

reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 14, tabling of documents. The honourable Minister responsible for Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. Robert McLeod.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to table the following document entitled Take-a-Kid Trapping Program, April 2007 to March 2009 Report.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Minister responsible for Finance, Mr. Miltenberger.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Minister of Finance

Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the following document entitled Supplementary Appropriation (Infrastructure Expenditures) No. 4, 2009-2010.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I seek unanimous consent to return to item 6, recognition of visitors in the gallery.

---Unanimous consent granted.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Return to item 6, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Nunakput, Mr. Jacobson.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery (Reversion)
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery (Reversion)

Jackie Jacobson

Jackie Jacobson Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I was so busy reading. I would like to thank Rhea Klengenberg and Ronald Oliktoak who have been here all week paging for us, for all their hard work and long hours they’ve been putting in with us.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery (Reversion)
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery (Reversion)

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Jacobson. Item 15, notices of motion. Item 16, notices of motion for first reading of bills. Item 17, motions. The honourable Member for Kam Lake, Mr. Ramsay.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

WHEREAS Rule 85 requires that Members be appointed to the standing committees of the Legislative Assembly,

NOW THEREFORE I MOVE, seconded by the honourable Member for Nahendeh, that the appointments to standing committees of the following Members be revoked:

Mrs. Jane Groenewegen, Member for Hay River South, from the Standing Committee on Economic Development and Infrastructure;

Mr. Jackie Jacobson, Member for Nunakput, from the Standing Committee on Government Operations; and

Mr. David Krutko, Member for Mackenzie Delta, from the Standing Committee on Government Operations;

AND FURTHER, that the following Members be appointed to standing committees:

Mr. Norman Yakeleya, Member for Sahtu, to the Standing Committee on Priorities and Planning, the Standing Committee on Economic Development and Infrastructure, and the Standing Committee on Government Operations;

Mrs. Jane Groenewegen, Member for Hay River South, to the Standing Committee on Government Operations;

Mr. David Krutko, Member for Mackenzie Delta, to the Standing Committee on Social Programs; and

Mr. Jackie Jacobson, Member for Nunakput, as an alternate member to the Standing Committee on Government Operations.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

There is a motion on the floor. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Some Hon. Members

Question

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Question has been called.

---Carried

The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Ms. Bisaro.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I MOVE, seconded by the honourable Member for Thebacha, that, notwithstanding Rule 4, when this House adjourns on Thursday, February 18, 2010, it shall be adjourned until Monday, February 22, 2010;

AND FURTHER, that any time prior to February 22, 2010, if the Speaker is satisfied, after consultation with the Executive Council and Members of the Legislative Assembly, that the public interest requires that the House should meet at an earlier time during the adjournment, the Speaker may give notice and thereupon the House shall meet at the time stated in such notice and shall transact its business as it has been duly adjourned to that time.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

There is a motion on the floor. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Some Hon. Members

Question.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Question has been called.

---Carried

Item 18, first reading of bills. Item 19, second reading of bills. Item 20, consideration in Committee of the Whole of bills and other matters: Bill 2, Forgiveness of Debts Act, 2009-2010; Bill 4, An Act to Amend the Child and Family Services Act; Bill 7, An Act to Amend the Summary Conviction Procedures Act; Tabled Document 62-16(4), NWT Main Estimates, 2010-2011; Minister’s Statement 47-16(4), Transfer of the Public Housing Rental Subsidy; Committee Report 5-16(4), Report on the Review of the 2008-2009 Human Rights Commission Annual Report; Tabled Document 78-16(4), Supplementary Appropriation (Operations Expenditures) No. 3, 2009-2010, with Mr. Ramsay in the chair. By the authority given me as Speaker by Motion 12-16(4), I hereby authorize the House to sit beyond the daily hour of adjournment to consider the business before the House.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Ramsay

I’d like to call Committee of the Whole to order and ask what the wish of committee is. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We would like to continue with Industry, Tourism and Investment today and then move on to the Department of Justice. And if time permits, we would like to also perhaps call up the Speaker and the budget for the... I’m sorry. Okay. So conclude Industry, Tourism and Investment, Public Works and Services and then, if possible and time permitting, we go on to the budget of the Legislative Assembly.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Ramsay

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Does committee agree?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Ramsay

Thank you, committee. I’d like to ask the Minister if he would like to bring in some witnesses.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

Yes, I would, Mr. Chairman.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. If we could please have the Sergeant-at-Arms escort the witnesses in. Does committee agree?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Ramsay

Thank you, committee.

I would like to welcome Minister Bob McLeod, Mr. Vician and Ms. Magrum to the proceedings this afternoon in Committee of the Whole. We are continuing on with ITI’s main estimates. We are on page 12-29, economic diversification and business support, operations expenditure summary. Mr. Krutko.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just have a question to the Minister with regard to the whole mandate of the development corporation and the whole establishment of facilities such as the Fort McPherson Canvas Shop, the fur shop in Aklavik, Tuktoyaktuk, now we got Fur Clouds. We have all these different ventures throughout the Northwest Territories, but the whole initiative of the government back then was to generate employment in communities where we have high pockets of unemployment. I think especially with the recession that we’re in, that’s something we should be seriously considering looking at and possibly formulating partnerships with aboriginal corporations or other organizations to find ways to generate employment.

One area we have to look at is dealing with the forest sector potential we have. I noted yesterday looking at home markets in communities. We need to formulate that partnership or relationship. I know the Fort McPherson Canvas Shop has been in McPherson going on over 30 years, yet there is no community ownership of that business. For a company to be in a community for 30 years, we should at least try to make arrangements to get some community buy-in through share equity or a partnership between a local business, the community development corporation or the co-op. I would like to ask the Minister if we are looking at expanding that type of mandate and formulating those important partnerships especially in our communities where job creation is key. We have to be able to expand these enterprises and find unique products that we can produce out of those facilities. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The BDIC’s mandate is to provide for business

opportunities to create jobs. We have a subsidiary program which operates on the premise that it’s better to have people working, even if the business operation is losing money. So if you can create jobs and if the government or if the corporation has to provide a top-up so that jobs are created, we are prepared to do that. We are mandated by the Financial Management Board, so for every job created, we can top up the contribution up to a maximum of $25,000 per job. So we have a number of subsidiaries that operate on that basis. Also I’m pleased to say that we have a number of businesses that have been started up on that basis and were repatriated to either Aboriginal Development Corporation or an aboriginal band controlled corporation, so they take over ownership and full operation.

We also have the mandate to issue preferred shares in participating business development. In the cases that you mentioned, the Fort McPherson Canvas Shop has been operating for a long time. It has products that are renowned for how well it’s constructed and so on. Again, it’s a subsidiary of BDIC. We have approached some of the development corporations and they have seen fit not to invest at this time up until now, but we would be quite prepared to approach them again to see if circumstances have changed so that they are now interested in investing in these kinds of corporations.

We are always looking for opportunities and if there are opportunities in the forestry section, we are prepared to examine them. We have, as a corporation, been involved in forestry in other communities, so we have some experience in that sector as well. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Could we get some order in the House? The sidebar is getting a little loud over here.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr, Krutko. I’d ask Members to keep your sidebar conversations to a minimum in an effort that we can hear the Minister’s responses. Mr. Krutko.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have talked to the development corporation in McPherson, I have talked to the co-op board, I have raised this in workshops we’ve held locally because they are talking about craft shops. They are talking about trying to help the crafts industry in McPherson. I asked them why do you want a craft shop. You have a perfect facility in Fort McPherson which is known, it’s marketable. It’s the Tent and Canvas Shop. It says Fort McPherson on the logo. We have to work with those other sectors in the communities and work with the Fort McPherson Canvas Shop to allow them that opportunity to work in conjunction and formulate that partnership, but also to work with local entrepreneurs to look at marketing their products also. I think Fort McPherson, we still have

the traditional sewing style, which is not being used as much today as it used to by others where you use the different styles of sewing. Because of that, we are able to market their products throughout Alaska, Yukon and southern trade shows. It’s a perfect opportunity to work in conjunction with the craft sector in Fort McPherson, the canvas shop business and the local business.

I think under the manufacture directive we have, as government, we have a warehouse sitting right next door to the canvas shop which is owned by the development corporation and could be used to manufacture products either for the Housing Corporation or the oil and gas industry, so we are able to not only expand the economic opportunities in those communities and generate jobs in the different sectors that are there, use existing government facilities to do it and not just focus on one product. I think that’s something that I feel quite strongly about.

I have been talking to leadership, the development corporations, the Gwich’in Tribal Council and I think this is a perfect opportunity for government and the aboriginal organizations to formulate this partnership. In order to do that, we have to allow for some way of having the government and the development corporation, it could be the local Rat River Development Corporation, which is the development corporation based out of Fort McPherson, or the co-op, which is owned by a majority of the shareholders who are residents of Fort McPherson. I think working with those groups and identifying these partnerships...but it has to be meaningful partnerships where you actually have a board of directors, which is a joint board of directors. It’s not people you just pick off the street.

You have to allow them to have a say in the operation and if they are going to invest, they want to be able to have a say in regards to how you develop products and consider other products that can be developed out of that facility. It’s formulating a business plan and working forward by way of job creation and look at the manufacturing directive and see how we can provide more job opportunities, more skilled people in the different sectors and work to entice that business venture so it can generate profit and get more people to work. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

We have our senior management travelling to Tsiigehtchic and Fort McPherson as we speak. So I’m sure those kinds of opportunities will be brought to their attention. I think that any opportunities to increase the revenue stream of our businesses under the BDIC will be pursued.

As far as working with the co-op, we work with the co-op in a number of communities, so we can do that. In terms of directors of the various companies, we went out and advertised for volunteers to sit on

the different companies because it was an Auditor General requirement, so most of the businesses are filled by directors from BDIC, as well as members that have applied to serve on the boards from the different communities. That’s the way we have been operating. If there are better ways of doing it, we are quite prepared to hear it and look at how we can better represent the community in these businesses. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Krutko, your time is up. I can put you back on the list, if you like. Now the chair will recognize Mr. Beaulieu.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, previously in Fort Resolution, the NWT Development Corporation, prior to their amalgamation into the Business Development and Investment Corporation, supported a business in the community of a sawmill. Similar supports to the businesses that are successful now under that investment corporation like Acho Dene Fur Clouds and Fort McPherson Canvas Shop. I understand from discussions with local people that there was always an intention, even though that business of the sawmill did receive a lot of support from the government, ultimately at the end of the day, it was not viable. I was made to understand from the people in Fort Resolution that there was always a plan for the dev corp and now the investment corp to return to that community to create a business in the community. I just want to get the Minister’s opinion on that. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Mr. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am quite familiar with the history of the Fort Resolution sawmill. I think that it was in existence for quite a long period of time through different management regimes and the last operation that I am familiar with, it was owned by the NWT Development Corporation. At that time, there was always an issue with accessing timber and that’s still an issue for forestry operators in the Northwest Territories.

The biggest problem in finding an efficient sawmill that could maximize the utilization of the timber. I believe, if I recall correctly, the recovery rate was something like 50 percent, which is very, very low when you’re harvesting timber.

Also, the corporation, for a number of reasons, lost a significant amount of money and consequently there was a lot of investment written off. I don’t think there have been any proposals that the corporation has looked at recently which would indicate it was feasible at this point.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

I recognize that the sawmill didn’t work out, although it existed and created lots of business and put some income into the community and some employment. As I’ve often indicated, the

low employment in Tu Nedhe communities, I was more or less thinking of opportunities for some other business in both Fort Resolution and Lutselk’e, opportunity for a business similar to the type of businesses that the investment corporation now supports in other parts of the North. There is no business in Tu Nedhe that is supported by the investment corporation. That’s basically what I’m asking. Are there plans for the government or ITI to work with BDIC to try to get back into Tu Nedhe through Fort Resolution and Lutselk’e to look at some business that may be viable if not lumber?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

The direction that I’ve provided to not only BDIC but also to the Department of ITI is that we want to work towards the objective of having an ongoing operation in every community in the Northwest Territories. So that’s our objective. We only have limited resources, so in the long term we are definitely interested in having something in Fort Resolution and Lutselk’e. We are working at establishing new economic development initiatives right now. We’re looking at establishing at least three every year. Ultimately we’ll have something in every community. Certainly if there is a business opportunity that can be identified for Fort Resolution or Lutselk'e, we would try to advance it. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Mr. Chairman, just shifting gears for a minute here, one of the other key areas in both Tu Nedhe communities, Lutselk'e and Fort Resolution, seem to be small loans. I’m not sure if that’s some sort of venture capital needed by some smaller scale businessmen in the community just employing one or two people and just some capital to get their business off the ground. Right now, the structure is set up where the economic development officers don’t work directly for the department but actually the department has a contribution agreement with the local organization to bring the EDOs into the community to deliver programs.

I’m not sure if the department... I guess my question would be: would the department go and support the economic development officers to maybe advertise or do some sort of communication strategy within the communities so that individuals are aware that that’s where they go and maybe advising what type of programs are available? I notice that in one community through ITI, like, through trapping they’ll get $5,000 grants. Then another community hasn’t even heard of it or I can’t track down where the holders of the grants in that community are. So I’m wondering if the Minister can just fill me in on those two points. One is EDOs there, what type of support are they getting from ITI? The other is when they do provide pots of money into the traditional harvesting, what type of communications are in place so the people in the community know? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

We have a variety of delivery agents and either they’re ITI staff or they’re community transferred positions or we contract with a band or some other entity to provide the service. So what we do is if it’s a community transferred position, we review it periodically. We make sure that the funding we’ve been providing is adequate. We bring together all of our delivery agents together on a regular basis to make sure that everybody has the same information and also to communicate and market the programs that we have. If the Member feels that that’s not happening in his community, well, we will follow up and take proactive action so that all of the programs are being marketed and promoted in Fort Resolution. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Beaulieu, your time has expired as well. I can put you back on the list if you like, but now the chair is going to recognize Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I had one follow-up. The Minister did let me know earlier that a review is being done of the support for the film industry. I’ve been having a lot of meetings with the folks lately and I guess they’re calling it now the new media industry. It involves a little more than film. Media is changing so quickly. I thought I’d start by asking what’s the focus of the review, what’s entailed in it, who is doing it and if there’s a time frame to it. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Mr. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Because of the different projects we have been working on, we are looking at starting the review later this spring and it will be done internally. Our expectation or my expectation is we would look at what all of the different jurisdictions are doing. A lot of people are referencing what Yukon is doing or what Nunavut is doing. In the past, with support to the film industry, the biggest concern was we were just funding southern companies to come up and leave with the money in their pocket and there was no benefits remaining. Obviously times change and we were prepared to do a review and once we determine that there are significant benefits, then we would make representation to obtain additional resources and perhaps even go as far as looking at tax credits if that’s what other jurisdictions are doing to compete to see who ultimately...it’s whoever provides the most benefits that attract these filmmakers. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

I appreciate those comments and it’s a very positive move. Of course, there are many and they are easy to get at, a couple of clicks on the Internet and we can see what Nunavut and Yukon are doing. It’s very similar between the two territories, assistance with local hires. You can put conditions on it to ensure that the majority of hires

are local or territorial before you get the support and so on; different mechanisms to maximize the degree of support with the investment made; travel assistance, recognizing the size of the Territory and so on.

I know the department has looked at it before, but it’s regarded so far as fairly shallow when they have looked at it. They don’t have the expertise on staff or at least they probably don’t have all the answers. Few agencies do have all the answers. I’m wondering if this review is open to participation by the public. As I mentioned earlier, we do have a lot of people who have on the ground experience, both within this jurisdiction and elsewhere. They usually have to go elsewhere to get support even if they are working here. If the Minister will be incorporating their perspectives and insights into that review and how that will be done, again an important diversifying opportunity for our economy.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

We will be seeking input from filmmakers in the Northwest Territories. Our preference is doing it internally. We don’t want to be accused of relying too much on outside consultants to do things that could be done internally. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

That’s good to hear. I know there are a number of eager people out there who would enjoy the opportunity to participate in a review. For that matter, there are probably lots of people in the Territory who have expertise and could do an actual independent review rather than an internal review that I think might bring some benefit as well. I hope the Minister could consider that or perhaps that’s next on down the road as the next after we do our internal one.

Right now we have a Film Commission as we hear from the Minister often and yet there is really nothing there. It’s a paper exercise. I think one of the things is really our perspective in how we approach this. Really, if we want to see it develop, we are going to have to think positive on it and do some meaningful things.

I’m wondering if the Minister would also consider developing a commission with actual expertise and real bodies in it that have an interest in seeing this opportunity develop.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

I guess I see that as being part of the assessment. We do have an NWT Film Commission. Basically it provides liaison and provides advice to perspective filmmakers. So far, as the Member indicated, we do have three reality TV shows that have been operating in the North and we would like... I think obviously there are a lot of stories to be told up here, so we should take advantage of that. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

The Minister brings up a good point. We do have a lot of stories to be told. Unfortunately, right now, it’s people elsewhere who

are coming up and trying to tell our stories, spending a few dollars and then leaving and spending all the big dollars in production and labour and so on elsewhere. I know that’s one of the real motivating factors of our artists in the film industry, is that they want to be telling their own stories, the northern stories themselves. So I hope that will be considered as well.

My last focus, Mr. Chair, is will the Minister be bringing this review, the framework for the review to committee and when the results are here, will he be bringing that to committee as well?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

We always consult very closely with the Standing Committee on Economic Development and Investment, so we would be doing that. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Anything further, Mr. Bromley?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

No, I appreciate that commitment. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Next, the chair will recognize Ms. Bisaro.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just have a couple of questions. The first one references the study and the potential changes to the Business Incentive Plan, which has been out there being studied, being reviewed for quite some time. I wonder if I can get an update from the Minister on where the consultation on potential changes to the BIP is at and whether or not there is any plan to make changes. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Ramsay

Thank you, Ms, Bisaro. Mr. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am pleased to advise that the consultation has been completed. We have confirmed a date to come back to the standing committee to report on the results of the consultation as per the direction we received from committee. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

As usual, I need to be a little more specific with my dates to get it into my head. The Minister mentions a date, but whether that is in 2010 or 2011, I would like a little bit more specific information of when that date might be, please. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

My understanding is we have a date that’s been confirmed for the first week of March. I don’t have the exact date, but it’s one of those dates between March 1st and the 5th . Thank

you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

That’s great to hear that. I would just like to know, once the information has gone to committee, is it the intention of the Minister to publish the results of this consultation to the general public? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

We would follow policy review convention and it would be referred to a committee, whatever the process is. We’ve already done all the consultation. All the stakeholders are aware of what is being proposed, so we would follow the policy convention of the government. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks to the Minister, I think. That wasn’t totally clear, but I’ll follow up when the briefing comes down.

I wanted to ask a question with regard to support for Avalon, the company Avalon and the potential for establishing a secondary industry for processing within the NWT for Avalon Rare Earth Metals. I know that the company has been speaking with the government. I believe they have been speaking with ITI. I just want to know from the Minister whether or not the conversations the government is having with the company are going to...if we are entertaining all options and if we are aggressively looking to keep this particular secondary industry within the NWT and trying to avert any possibility of them fleeing and taking their operation to the South. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

We’re doing a number of things with regard to value-added. We are undertaking a review of the competitiveness of the Northwest Territories and we would be looking at competing jurisdictions, because Avalon has told us that they are looking at different locations, not only in the Northwest Territories but also in Alberta and Saskatchewan. So we will be looking at the different jurisdictions.

We’re also planning with our colleagues from DIAND, or CanNor I guess is the more appropriate term, a value-added workshop so that we can determine how we can best support it. Specifically it has been reported in the media about what Avalon is looking for, is power in the Pine Point area, and we are examining what the barriers are. So the question becomes how much are we prepared to contribute in order to maximize the benefits to the Northwest Territories.

With regard to the secondary diamond processing, for example, when we first set up the value-added there we put up loan guarantees for the different manufacturers and more recently we’ve been told to move away from that. So what we’re doing is establishing what it would take to provide incentives for Avalon to set up their secondary processing in the Northwest Territories. So at the appropriate time we would come back and seek support as to what our government would have to do in order to do exactly what the Member has said, to keep the company here and operate in the North. We would say, okay, well, this is what it would take to get them to stay and I guess we would make a conscious decision at that time. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks for that explanation. I’m very glad to hear that. It sounds as though we are being very positive about wanting to keep this industry here. Judging by the information that I’ve been given, this is a long-term mining project and one that’s going to benefit our Territory, particularly the South Slave for a long time to come. So I think we need to do as much as we can to encourage this industry to locate themselves within the NWT as opposed to outside.

The last time we got information from Avalon there was a bit of a suggestion that they haven’t really had a lot of meetings with either the department or with the Minister and they sort of gave me the suggestion or the interpretation that they sort of felt that we didn’t really want to talk to them, that we didn’t really want to keep them. So I just would like to know from the Minister, are there plans to get in touch with these guys sooner rather than later and to keep the dialogue open and to communicate early and often, as they say. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

I can assure the Member that we have regular interactions with Avalon; our regional staff interact with them almost on a weekly basis. I myself meet with them at every opportunity. The last time I met with management of Avalon was at the Cordilleran Roundup in Vancouver and they do have representatives here in Yellowknife as well. So we have the opportunity to meet with them on a regular basis. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks to the Minister. That’s all I have.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you. Next on the list I have Mr. Yakeleya.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to talk about the traditional economy. I want to ask the Minister about the support for traditional economy. There are several suggestions that were coming from Deline in terms of having the elders and trappers take out some young people to pursue this traditional economy and to support them. I think there were some programs, I’m not too sure, but it was something that they were telling me that it wasn’t enough, they want to continue on this here. Is there something like that within the budget here for supporting the traditional economy in regard to the trapping industry?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Minister of ITI.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We do have a whole host of programs that are available and also we work in very close partnership with other departments and other Ministers. So, for example, we work very closely with the Department of Education, Culture and Employment and Municipal and Community Affairs and also we’ve even had the federal government provide funding on occasion. So the communities that have been most successful in getting the youth to become

interested in trapping or being exposed to trapping are the ones that have involved almost the whole community. They bring in elders and so on to work with the youth on these projects. So we’re quite pleased with the Take-a-Kid Trapping Program and I would think that that would be the venue to have the elders participate. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Mr. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

I should point out, also, that through the Minister of Youth, they are also involved in this Take-a-Kid Trapping Program. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you. I know that small communities that rely on trapping people have gone out trapping for a good portion of their lives, these elders, and certainly there are some young trappers who also want to be part of that lifestyle. I agree with the Minister that there are programs that contribute to trappers in the Northwest Territories. Just in saying that, I wanted to ask the Minister about the Trapper Training Program. I’m not too sure if it quite goes with the youth trapping, but I could be wrong. It was just something that they were asking that, you know, we have a group of trappers, but maybe six trappers want to take out some youth and go out there for a month or two months, but not a one-time, but have it on a continuous basis throughout the year. There’s different trapping seasons, I guess, and they want to use that. That’s what they were asking. So they do appreciate it, they just say that we wish the government would put this or redirect or allocate some funding from the budget to do this in a way that they know they will have success with the youth there.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

We have a bit of flexibility in the program, so our regional office has worked closely with the schools and I think that’s where the flexibility comes in. I know some of the communities, the teachers go out so the kids or the youth can also learn while they’re out there. So if a group of trappers want to get together and bring youth out, I’m sure it could be worked out. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you. I appreciate the comments from the Minister about the flexibility on this issue. I do agree with the Minister that some of the teachers in some of the smaller communities certainly enjoy getting out on the land with elders and learning about different cultures and that, and they appreciate being in the community. It sure makes a big difference for them to live in our community. They know that they’re taking a risk by going out, but they’re also learning a lot from the people. So I do want to thank the Minister for that.

Mr. Chair, the suggestion by the Minister about the flexibility in the programs I will relay back to my region and I hope that we can have some good discussions with the staff in terms of the flexibility.

They did bring up the issue of the high cost of gasoline in the small communities in terms of going out on the land and that, and sometimes that brings down the amount of money that they want because the gas is high. So I think that’s something they want to have some discussion about, but I take the Minister’s words very seriously and I will go back to my region and see what can be done for supporting our trappers.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

Thank you. Yes, I would certainly support that, working with the region. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Anything else, Mr. Yakeleya? Economic diversification and business support, operations expenditure summary, activity summary, $20.599 million. Agreed?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Moving on, activity summary, economic diversification and business support, grants and contributions, grants, $560,000.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Contributions. Moving on to page 12-32, total contributions... Okay, we’ll go to 12-31, Industry, Tourism and Investment, activity summary, economic diversification and business support, grants and contributions. Agreed?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Moving on to page 12-32, Industry, Tourism and Investment, activity summary, economic diversification and business support, grants and contributions, total contributions, $11.193 million. Agreed?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Total grants and contributions, $11.753 million. Agreed?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Moving on to the next page, active positions, information item, 12-33. Any questions there?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Moving on to page 12-34, lease commitments – infrastructure. Again an information item.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

We’re on 12-35, information item, Fur Marketing Service Revolving Fund. Agreed?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

We’re onto 12-36, again an information item, work performed on behalf of others. Mr. Yakeleya.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Mr. Chair, I want to find out the issue of analysis of field samples that we don’t have any budget. Can I ask the Minister in terms of this item here: analysis of field samples?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Mr. Yakeleya, could you point out what item you’re talking about on what page?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Mr. Chair, I’m quoting from page 12-36. Are we not there?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Mr. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We don’t have an agreement finalized yet for this year and, according to the rules of the main estimates, we can’t put it in here until it’s signed off and agreed upon. So that’s why there’s nothing there this year. Through you, Mr. Chair, I’ll ask Ms. Magrum to give more detail on this area. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Ms. Magrum, go ahead.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Magrum

If you look at both pages for the work performed on behalf of others, typically other than when we have multi-year agreements in place, the budget dollars are reflected in the revised estimates once we’re in that current year and we have the signed agreements in place.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

For the record, that was Nancy Magrum, director of shared services. Mr. Yakeleya.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Could I say that there are two other areas here that don’t show any dollars. Is that the same type of scenario with the federal government on the funding arrangements?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Minister of ITI.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

That’s correct, Mr. Chairman. Those dollars have to be confirmed so that we can include it. They will probably show up next year.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Next I have Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Perhaps a similar situation, I’m not sure. I’m wondering about the Agricultural Policy Framework Agreement. I see we had funding for the last couple of years. I’m wondering where we’re at with the development of that and if we’re expecting it to be renewed this year.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Minister of ITI.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We do have a going forward agreement which has been renewed this year. I guess the potential is up to... The total amount in the going forward agreement is for $3.2 million over a four-year period.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

So the past couple of years have been laying the groundwork for that, perhaps. That’s a question. Do we know how we will be spending those dollars? Maybe I could just get a sense of where we’re at with that and the role the Territorial Farmers’ Association has had, if any, in developing that.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

This I guess has been around for quite a few years. This is the latest extension. We have met with the Territorial Farmers’ Association and there’s a whole host of initiatives that potentially could be funded through this agreement. I guess we say “potentially” because it’s quite a rigorous paper process to access the funding. Some of the initiatives include small-scale foods, northern agri-foods, commercial game harvest, traditional harvest, inter-settlement trade, environment, Bison Strategy, national strategic initiatives. That’s what we’re looking at there.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Are those funds that the public can apply for? Is that an onerous process for the GNWT? Is that the process for GNWT to apply for? If it’s the public, is there assistance for the public with that onerous application process?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

It depends on the initiative. So, for example, the small-scale foods, members of the public would apply on that. Some of the others are only for, I guess, industry types or government or communities, I would expect.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

How do we get this information out to those that might be interested, be they industry or community people?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

Our regional offices will be providing that information to the communities. We have met with the TFA and set up that process for doing so.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

I’ll just ask, it sounds like the department is well along on this. If there are appropriate public alert mechanisms for the different... It sounds like there are different programs or funds, small-scale foods and so on might be a general public thing, so there would be a different way of getting that word out. The Territorial Farmers’ Association might be really plugged into this and so on. I just ask that the department make sure that publicizing these opportunities is done in an appropriate manner for the clients.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

More of a comment. Would you like to reply, Mr. McLeod?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It’s our intention to do so. If the Member has any suggestions, we’d appreciate that as well.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Page 12-36, Industry, Tourism and Investment, information item, work performed on behalf of others.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Page 12-37, Industry, Tourism and Investment, information item, work performed on behalf of others, continued. Mr. Yakeleya.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

I just want to ask the same question as on the previous page on the programs that don’t show any funding for this year. Is that similar to my other questions on the previous page?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Minister of ITI.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

That’s correct.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you. Just on the Rare in Nature we have main estimates of $250,000 and then you go down to $100,000. I’d like to ask the Minister the reasons for the decrease in those numbers.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

I guess that’s a direct reflection of the downturn in the economy. The production of diamonds was down and the sale of diamonds was down. So, consequently, the revenue collected from the certification program was down as well.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Page 12-37, Industry, Tourism and Investment, information item, work performed on behalf of others, continued.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Page 12-38, Industry, Tourism and Investment, information item, work performed on behalf of others, continued.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Return to page 12-7, Industry, Tourism and Investment, department summary, operations expenditure summary, $51.752 million.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Does the committee agree that we have concluded the Department of Industry, Tourism and Investment?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

With that, I would like to thank the Minister and his witnesses. Sergeant-at-Arms, could you escort the witnesses out?

At this time I would like to ask the Minister of Public Works and Services if he has any opening remarks. Mr. Michael McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am pleased to present the Department of Public Works and Services main estimates for the fiscal year 2010-2011.

The main estimates propose a department operations and maintenance budget for 2010-2011 of $92.3 million, which represents a 65.3 percent increase in O and M funding over 2009-2010. Strategic and corporate initiatives like the consolidation of maintenance and utilities, and the

one-time costs budgeted for the demolition of the Chief Albert Wright School in Tulita and the Deh Cho Hall in Fort Simpson account for $31.9 million of the O and M funding increases in 2010-2011. In addition, the department has an infrastructure investment plan of $27.3 million for 2010-2011.

Public Works and Services is an essential partner in the achievement of government-wide goals while achieving the best value for government, communities, business and residents. The department achieves this through support and leadership in the areas of:

asset

management

information and communication technology

procurement

records

management

community fuel provision

electrical and mechanical safety.

The department also manages an additional $187 million for projects and services on behalf of its clients through revolving funds, chargebacks and capital transfers. These funds are used to provide:

computer and data communications for

government offices;

fuel services for residents, businesses, and the NWT Power Corporation in 20 communities; and

deliver capital infrastructure for our clients.

PWS is working to improve how we do business. In response to direction given by the 16th Legislative

Assembly, and specifically the stated priority of achieving effective and efficient government, PWS has led the charge in the way the GNWT approaches how we plan for and acquire public infrastructure. Under the guidance and direction of the Ministerial Sub-committee for Infrastructure, implementation of the revisions to the capital planning process will continue in 2010-2011. Examples of changes include:

planning

studies,

peer reviews of large capital projects,

value analysis of large capital projects, and

development of standardized designs.

Funding is in place in 2010-2011 to complete the planning, design, and transition activities required to implement shared services procurement models for the GNWT at the beginning of 2011-2012. Through this initiative, PWS will eliminate duplication and unnecessary processes and will standardize services in a way that is compliant with GNWT policies. The establishment of this shared services unit will allow departments to focus on their core business rather than on these administrative and support service functions.

In 2010-2011, Public Works sand Services will lead a change in the way the GNWT manages facility maintenance under the Consolidation of Maintenance Strategic Initiative. As of April 1, 2010, the maintenance of most GNWT-owned buildings will be consolidated in Public Works and Services.

This will result in a standardized approach to the operation and preventative maintenance of government building infrastructure. This approach will allow the GNWT to more adequately address the growing deficit in deferred maintenance and will provide a consistent level of preventative maintenance for GNWT building assets. At this time work is currently underway within Public Works and Services to ensure detailed preventative maintenance plans and work schedules are in place for 2010-2011.

In order to support the department’s enhanced responsibilities under the Consolidation of Maintenance Initiative, PWS will establish indeterminate settlement maintainer positions in the communities of Ulukhaktok, Sachs Harbour, Wrigley, Fort Resolution, Behchoko, and Tulita, as well as one new electrician position in the community of Inuvik. These new permanent positions will allow PWS to recruit qualified individuals and better manage the maintenance activities and availability of resources at the community level, while having more control over the cost and quality of the services provided. It will also allow Public Works and Services to be more proactive in completing its mandate of building maintenance and better support the department in complying with code-mandated checks and repairs and completing deferred maintenance requirements.

Safe, reliable infrastructure is essential for the delivery of GNWT programs and services. As such, PWS will continue to implement programs in one of the department’s key areas of focus: Facility Risk Management and Safety. To date, PWS has completed 675 facility condition assessments and over $470 million in deferred maintenance costs have been identified. The Risk Management and Deferred Maintenance Program has identified $5 million in capital and $3 million in O and M funding for 2010-2011. This funding will deal with the highest priorities identified in the latest GNWT asset assessments.

In 2010-2011, responsibility and current funding for utility expenses for GNWT-owned buildings will be transferred from program departments and consolidated with Public Works and Services. This will allow for accurate tracking of utility expenses government-wide and feed into current energy conservation projects. PWS is proposing to capture the savings identified through its energy conservation initiatives and establish funding that

would be used to offset the cost of delivering future energy conservation projects.

The department has initiated several energy conservation projects to reduce energy consumption and greenhouse gas emissions in the GNWT. Through the Capital Asset Retrofit Fund, PWS will invest $3.5 million into greenhouse gas and energy efficiency improvements to GNWT infrastructure in 2010-2011.

Some examples of the work planned for 2010-2011 include:

energy efficient lighting retrofits

water saving washroom fixture upgrades

heating and ventilations system replacements and upgrades

building control system upgrades

building envelope upgrades.

The projected annual energy savings for energy conservation initiatives completed to date and those currently planned and in progress are projected to be $2 million and 9,000 tonnes of greenhouse gasses per year.

The projected energy savings for retrofit projects planned for 2010-2011 are $325,500 and 268 tonnes of greenhouse gasses per year.

In conjunction with the consolidation and tracking of utilities, PWS proposes to reinvest the savings generated from these investments to sustain the Capital Asset Retrofit Fund in the future.

In addition to the facilities owned and maintained by the GNWT, PWS currently manages a lease portfolio valued at $18.6 million with 60 leases across the Territory. PWS reviews this portfolio regularly to ensure that occupied space meets the program needs of our client. In the area of leased accommodations, the program review office in the Department of Executive made a number of recommendations during its review of general purpose office space and it concluded the GNWT could achieve considerable long-term savings through investment in new owed office space in Yellowknife. In response to those recommendations, PWS will be seeking approval to complete a planning study for rebalancing the portfolio of GNWT-owned and leased office space in Yellowknife.

Through the Technology Service Centre, the department provides information technology support and services to meet the business objectives of the GNWT. More and more, the ability of the government to provide services to NWT residents is dependent upon the availability of secure and reliable information and communication systems. To that end, the TSC will be adding an infrastructure support analyst position as part of the implementation of the Security Strategy.

Finally, I would like to mention the provision of essential fuel services. Through the Petroleum Products Revolving Fund, Public Works and Services funds the provision of heating fuel and gasoline in communities where a commercial operation does not exist. Through the Fuel Management Services Agreement, the petroleum products division provides the Northwest Territories Power Corporation with all of its fuel requirements and manages and operates its tank farms in 20 communities across the NWT. Under this agreement, PPD maintains safe tank farms in many remote locations, as well as contracting with and training local fuel delivery agents to provide necessary services. These agents have an important function in their communities, and Public Works and Services works with them to carry out this important service.

In response to the challenge of fluctuating oil prices and increased volatility in the market, the petroleum products division is focused on exploring strategic partnerships and ways to stabilize the cost of fuel products for people in communities served by the program.

To effectively reduce the cost of fuel transportation, PPD will continue to work with its marine carriers to maximize the amount of fuel that is transported to the GNWT by bulk tanker via the “over the top” route.

The marine freight costs that were avoided in the summer of 2009 by the use of the “over the top” route versus the traditional Mackenzie River route are estimated to have exceeded $1.8 million, savings that are passed along to the consumers and to NTPC in the form of reduced fuel prices.

Public Works and Services continues to be responsive to its many clients and strives to provide a high quality service to departments and the people of the NWT. The budget that we are reviewing today will contribute to achieving this objective.

Mr. Chairman, that concludes my opening remarks. I would be happy to answer any questions Members may have. Thank you. Mahsi cho.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Mr. Minister. With that, I’d like to ask if you’ll be bringing in witnesses. Mr. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

I do, Mr. Chairman.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Does committee agree the Minister brings in his witnesses?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses in.

Mr. Minister, for the record, could you introduce your witnesses.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, on my left I have Paul Guy, the acting deputy minister of Public Works and Services. I also have Laurie Gault, the director of TSC. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Welcome, witnesses. General comments. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thanks for the opportunity to offer some general comments here. Going through the Minister’s remarks, it’s quite an unusual budget with the changes that are taking place this year. The first thing he mentioned was the $32 million for demolition of the school and the Deh Cho Hall in Simpson. To me, I’m very upset about this. This is extremely poor management. There’s no reason these should be occurring together in the same fiscal year. They should have been spread over. These are really predictable sorts of costs. We know what the extra costs we’re dealing with that other things are causing today. So I think we need a real tune-up in how we deal with major costs like this and start spreading them out and bringing those into our management regime so it’s routine rather than on a last-minute basis.

On the other hand, I think the things we’re doing with starting to capture some of the savings from the energy work we’re doing, I like the idea of bringing all the utilities into one place. Public Works and Services will be clearly in charge of maintenance and the opportunities that brings for standardizing and bringing an energy savings approach with some possible additional savings there and so on. So I want to tip my hat to the planning that has gone into that and moving on that opportunity.

The Minister mentioned settlement maintainer positions that are going to be established, indeterminate positions, and I’d like to be sure that those positions will receive training in energy efficiency and, ideally, opportunities for renewable energy. For example, solar hot water heating and so on, things that we know are quite viable in our communities with off-the-shelf technology. The same would go for the electrician in Inuvik, so we can start taking advantage of those opportunities.

The long-term savings to investment and new owned office space in Yellowknife I think, again, we are looking for those sorts of opportunities and I understand that a large opportunity has been identified there. So I’m looking forward to a discussion on that and, overall, I’m positive on getting that done. I think there will be some sensitivity needed to how that gets carried out, sensitivity to the marketplace and so on and I think we’ll be visiting more about that.

The petroleum products division and a revolving fund, well, servicing the Power Corporation and the residents and so on, I’ve said before it should be

the pellets in the petroleum products division. We need to be switching. To be subsidizing substance that is doing such harm to our land, our future, seems to me somehow to be kind of crazy and we know in fact the Minister outlined the savings that we’ve had with the biomass projects, for example. It’s just completely crazy. So here’s a division that’s got lots of expertise, probably spending lots on maintaining tank farms and cleaning up spills and so on. It could be enjoying those savings and helping out the marketplace by providing a market and I think that should be extended to the Power Corporation, as well, or looking at better ways of doing things.

I want to keep us moving here so I think I’ll just leave it at that and bring out any other specifics during the detail. I appreciate this opportunity again. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Next I have Mr. Menicoche.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I just wanted to comment on a couple of things and the Minister will probably correct some of the figures, because I don’t think it’s going to take $32 million to take down two schools, and I’ll wait for the opportunity for him to correct that.

But in terms of the Deh Cho Hall in the community of Fort Simpson, it’s an economic opportunity. That’s the way I see it. I certainly support this line item in the budget. It’s an economic development opportunity for the community. I’ve always said that we’re one of the depressed regions today. There’s work and the majority of it is government and I believe that an opportunity like demolishing the old Deh Cho Hall will create lots of employment for the community and an economic opportunity for the LKFN First Nations, who I support in seeking and negotiating a contract for this once this line item is approved.

As well, in the opening comments the Minister mentioned about the return of community maintenance persons in our regions and I think that’s something that’s much needed. I know that we cannot do all the communities. However, the ones that are listed in the budget this year is a step forward in maintaining the sustainability and the operating needs of the communities and many of the small communities do depend on somebody skilled in all areas of maintenance to assist them, because often it’s probably a benefit to government, otherwise there will be extraordinary costs in bringing in plumbers, pipefitters, welders for minor repair items. I can certainly see the case for as and when contracts sending up people to the smaller communities, but if they’re just going there to change out a doorknob or else do five minutes of welding or 10 minutes of plumbing, then I’m sure the contractor gets just as frustrated, because in our regions our contractors are spread really thin

because there’s not enough work for three or four different specialized contractors and usually enough for one in the whole region and that person gets very busy as well.

So I just wanted to make those few comments, Mr. Chair. Thank you very much.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. General comments. Mr. Yakeleya.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to say to the Minister that people in my community that I reside in were happy that there were some discussions going on regarding the demolition of the Chief Albert Wright School. It’s been a situation that we finally have seen some resolution to it and I certainly support the department on this item in the budget here to see that we can finally move on it.

Also, the issue of the property of where the school is situated right now has a lot of interest by community members for an agreement that was possibly negotiated some time ago with the municipality, the Hamlet of Tulita, in terms of land swapping and how they are going to use that facility. However, they are excited that we’re finally getting some attention to it and that this building would be demolished and it would be taken down. So I wanted to say that.

The other one is that I want to say to the Minister on the work going forward is, I guess I want to say in terms of the creativity in the issue of the settlement maintainer, it’s a good issue. I think that’s something that’s much needed in all the small communities. It makes a lot of sense, so I’m really happy to see it in the budget for this department. So that I wanted to say to the Minister.

I wanted to also let the Minister know that the issue on the energy conservation projects, and I was hoping that we might get some in terms of the assets that they own. There is a facility that we as a government, as a department, has an old garage that’s in Tulita. It was built, I think, the way it looks, it looks like it was built in the 1500s or 1600s, but I could be wrong, but it’s built in 1960. But it’s so old and really it looks in pretty bad shape. We have some really good people working in the communities and they’re subjected to working in this type of building here. So I wanted to see if that would get some attention sometime within this government here and see if we could have a new building in Tulita. There are other buildings that are constructed that DPW has that are brought up to standard. So this one here, I think it needs some really good attention. So I’m looking forward to seeing if the Minister could put something like that together in the plans in terms of the assets that they have in Tulita.

Mr. Chair, the petroleum products division, the Minister is well aware of the issue in Tulita. Again, I speak to...and he’s sent me some notes and I

appreciate the information from the Minister. I’m looking forward to seeing where that production for upgrading the facility for the operator is going to get some attention and in terms of the operation and the work that this operator has done on behalf of this government. I think that he’s looking forward... Actually, I’m looking forward to seeing something get done. It’s scary sometimes when you go into those old buildings and there are some things that shouldn’t even be looked at safety wise, Labour Code wise. Things like that we should really be more aware of on how we put our contractors in place to deliver fuel.

Overall I’m really quite pleased with the budget that the department has put before us. I’ll leave the rest to details.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Next on my list is Mr. Beaulieu.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’ll keep my comments brief as well. I think one of the few consolidated efforts that this government has put forth over the last several years that I agree with is the consolidation of utilities. I would be curious about the placement of positions as a result of the shift of $30 million-some-odd dollars in utilities going from the various departments to Public Works creating quite an unusual increase in the budget of 65 percent. However, that’s recognizing that’s probably going to be a good thing with commodities such as fuel, when one department can administer, tender, and bring all these costs together. It will probably be an opportunity to reduce costs in small communities such as Lutselk’e.

I’m pleased with the Minister going back to settlement maintainer positions in some of the communities. I felt that it was good to have that position go back into Fort Resolution. I often stand up in the House and indicate how little presence the GNWT has in these communities and how high or how low, I guess it is, the employment rates in these communities are compared to our larger communities where we have quite a large GNWT presence. The position of settlement maintainer is still needed in Lutselk’e. It may not have as many buildings as some of the other communities where there are transfers that occurred. However, it’s a remote community and the only way to get tradesmen in there is usually by air. I think that’s how all the tradesmen travel into a community. We see tradesmen coming and it’s okay for the economy of the community to have workers come in to do things like maintaining the boiler at the school. I know that there were some problems there this year. I think it came really close to the boiler... Well, there were some problems with the boiler. I don’t know the details but I happened to be in the community at that time when it was spewing out a bunch of black smoke and they had a tradesman

come into the community to work on that. So maybe a settlement maintainer position should be looked at also in Lutselk’e. Again, I’m pleased that one went into Fort Resolution.

On another note, I think deferred maintenance, the assessments to determine the amount of maintenance that we didn’t do on all the buildings over the years is very positive. We don’t have the money to address all the deferred maintenance costs, I’m sure. At this rate it’s going to take us 90 years. But, in any event, it’s a good thing that we’re starting to address. It gives the government an opportunity to address the more serious issues created as a result of deferred maintenance. I’m seeing the benefits of this program in both communities, in both schools, and that’s very positive.

The rest of the questions I may have for the Minister as we get into the detail. That’s all I have for now.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Next on my list is Mr. Hawkins.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just a couple areas I want to talk to today. The first one, of course, is Public Works taking back the utilities to track them. I support this initiative. I think consolidation in the sense of one billing process, one group organizing this and being able to track it and monitor it, and certainly hopefully someday understand it will be a useful step I think for us to get a grip on what we are using as far as utilities are concerned.

The only concern I have with this particular issue -- and I like to think that because it’s at the beginning we will certainly have a position to strive to avoid this -- is what are we going to do with this. I hope there is a plan of attack on how departments will be somewhat accountable for the amount that they spend and certainly in the context of we’ll work to strive to spend less on things like utilities.

In the past we’ve heard nothing but, oh, it was an unforeseeable year and the expense just grows and grows and grows with no understanding of why. And furthermore, I’ve heard, through many people over the years, that a lot of departments don’t really know or understand how much they’re really spending as far as utilities go. I understand the fact that lights always need to be on in schools and hospitals and whatnot, but I think people need to understand where they’re spending their money. Once you understand that, you can also get a sense of how you can spend your money wisely. I think that has to be a critical component to amalgamating the utilities under one roof. I certainly think it probably was a visionary sort of step for some and others may not have wanted to give up the control, but I understand that there’s probably a management headache attributed to it trying to figure out what goes where. I do think a coordinated

role in this particular case will be very useful for a government our size to help, as I said, manage this expense.

Another area I’d kind of like to touch base on, and I’m glad the Minister brought someone from TSC here today. I look for hopefully some insight in this particular area. Although it’s not a new trend, it’s certainly becoming a constant one that’s been growing by leaps and bounds. It is the use of Skype. I hear about this quite regularly now in the city of Yellowknife, that many people are talking long distance through the use of Skype. I can only wonder if this will provide a benefit to the territorial government, whether you’re living and working in a small community and you need to talk to headquarters or vice versa where headquarters needs to talk to someone in one of the small communities. Does this provide an opportunity for us to do business better and, certainly, smarter?

People who use it tell me that their phone bill has gone down dramatically. The government is always trying to find new ways that make a lot of sense to save money. From folks I’ve talked to who use this process, do save a lot of money when they speak to friends, relatives, and whatnot across the country and across the world. Perhaps this can be an opportunity the department could look into if they have not yet. If they have at this time, I’d certainly like to hear more about it, because I’m not aware of this being used within the government system so far. Everything I’ve heard about being able to use Skype is it’s a great investment and people have saved a lot of money using that process. I don’t necessarily believe it’s for everyone and certainly the capacity level on our lines that would carry the Web to every community may not facilitate these types of endeavours, but it all starts with two phones, not one, to start making change, and obviously we could start from there. I’d certainly like to hear if there’s optimism to give something like that a try.

At this time the rest of the issues raised within the Minister’s opening comments, I certainly support the work being done on Deh Cho Hall. I know that one very well. I fully understand the accounting for it. Removal of the Tulita school, Chief Albert Wright. I certainly support the efforts by my colleagues about getting more community people working in their community. I stand supportive of the statements so far here and, as I mentioned earlier, I wouldn’t mind hearing just a little more on those two particular areas. Thank you very kindly.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Committee, general comments. Not hearing any requests for more comments, Mr. McLeod, response.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thanks to all the Members for their comments and the issues they’ve brought forward.

The first one being, of course, the discussion around some of the demolition projects we have going. We have a budget of $3.2 million to take down two fairly large buildings; buildings that we’re still paying for the safety issues on them. That’s a big reason to move forward in fairly short order to eliminate any of the public safety concerns. There are also contaminants in some of these facilities that we have to make sure we deal with. There is still a certain cost to have all those things ongoing for the long term while we have new buildings that have replaced them. There has been a lot of interest from both communities to do salvage type operations and we need to have that discussion, but it’s also an opportunity for many of the community members to have some employment as a result of this.

I also appreciate the comments on consolidation of the utilities. I certainly appreciate the support. It will allow us to better track and provide a better service across the North as we take on this responsibility.

With the building maintainers we also think that’s something that’s important. We’ve had a lot of challenges over the years to ensure some of the communities, not all of the communities, but to have some of the services provided to the communities. A lot of times it’s very expensive for our contractors to fly in from the larger centres, especially if the maintenance problem is very small. We’ve had, also, problems trying to recruit contractors in some of these small communities. We feel that having a permanent presence in the communities that we’ve mentioned is something that we need to do. We will be working towards improving the skill levels of the people we hire. We’re anticipating that they will have a certain level of skills to start with and start providing training and building operations that will help enhance their abilities and provide a quality service to all the communities in terms of government facilities.

The office space in Yellowknife is something that’s been recommended for us to move on. It’s certainly a mechanism that would allow us to save some money. It’s also an opportunity for us to balance our portfolio. Right now we have in some of the jurisdictions in the Northwest Territories an imbalance of having more leases or a very large amount of leases versus buildings that we own. In this case we anticipate that the savings over the life of this facility will be in excess of $100 million.

We also recognize that we have a responsibility in the area of public petroleum projects to continue moving towards finding alternate ways to provide support. We need to be able to switch to something that will provide the same level of service at a cheaper cost and with less impact to the environment. We will continue to explore that.

We have, with this department, converted a number of buildings. There are five buildings so far that

we’ve converted over to biomass. We are working on eight other buildings that are under development right now for conversion and we’d like to do eight more in the next little while. So there’s quite a bit being done there.

The other thing that was raised by Mr. Yakeleya is the facility that is being considered for demolition in his community. We certainly agree that there is a huge demand for the property that both the Chief Albert Wright building, or the school that’s in his community, for the land that it sits on. Same for the Deh Cho Hall. It’s on prime property that needs to be opened up and we recognize that.

I don’t agree with Mr. Yakeleya that his Tulita garage was built in the 1600s. I would agree that it is old and it needs some consideration. As we move forward with our new maintenance positions in the communities, we also have to consider the support in terms of facilities and offices and shops for them to work out of. So we are developing a plan to deal with that. So there are going to be a number of facilities that are going to require upgrades. There are a number of them that are going to require retrofits and a number that are going to be outright replaced. So once we have that done, we’d be very pleased to share that with the Members.

The Tulita tank farm, we recognize there’s a facility there that is requiring some consideration for replacement. We are looking at the whole project, all of the tank farm, and it’s something that we want to look at replacing. So that will deal with the issue that Mr. Yakeleya has raised. Right now we’re at the planning study stage, so we should be able to have that down the road as we move forward.

We also, of course, have to agree with Mr. Beaulieu when he’s pointed out that there are a number of good reasons for consolidating the utilities and it will allow us to reduce costs. We recognize that. It will certainly allow us to have more control as we now can start tracking what facilities are ineffective or utilizing more energy than they should. So it’s certainly something that we look forward to doing. I think it’s something that having a centralized system such as what we’re proposing will help us enhance our responsibilities where the community is government.

We also, I think, had talked some time ago, during the last budget process, about our plans to continue to look at different communities for maintenance personnel. Lutselk'e will be one that we’ll consider down the road. They had a position historically and that position was removed. We have to, for the next go-round, start identifying if there’s still a need in some communities. We already recognize that there are some that we’ll probably need to start moving on. That assessment will be made down the road.

Mr. Chairman, we’re also glad to hear that Mr. Hawkins supports consolidation of the utilities. We will be tracking, as he’s raised concerns about doing things better, and it will allow us to track every asset and will allow us to report to the communities or to the people that are operating the asset. We still have to point out, though, that each department has a responsibility in this area for managing their energy, but we will be able to tell if there’s a huge use or over more than what we think was required. So tracking and monitoring will be a lot better with better control.

On the issue of the TSC that was raised by Mr. Hawkins, we certainly agree. We have to stay on top of the technology that’s coming out and it’s changing fairly rapidly. The use of Skype is something that we need to take a look at. We are looking at new contracts in the next while and we have to look at all options, so that will be a consideration as we move forward to that stage. So we will be considering that. That’s all I have, Mr. Chairman, Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

Thank you, Minister McLeod. Committee, that concludes general comments.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

Thank you, committee. We’ll start with detail and we’ll start by deferring page 7-7, the department summary, operations expenditure summary, and start on page 7-8, information item, Public Works and Services, infrastructure investment summary. Questions?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

Page 7-9, information item, revenue summary.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

Page 7-10, information item, Public Works and Services, active positions.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

Page 7-13, activity summary, Public Works and Services, directorate, operations expenditure summary, $7.323 million.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

Page 7-14, information item, Public Works and Services, directorate, active positions.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

Page 7-17, activity summary. Mr. Yakeleya.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just on the asset management, just for the record, I just want to let the Minister know I said the facility in Tulita, it looks like it was built in the 1600s. I didn’t say it was built, I said it looked like. Perceptions. So

I just wanted to tell the Minister that I just wanted that to be for the record here and that I will certainly look forward to seeing if, when this facility could be put on the list for demolition, and seeing if they can consider building a new one for the workers there. This is quite an old building here.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, I had indicated that we were at the planning stage of looking at the replacement of the tank farm. That will include the facility that the Member is concerned about. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

I just wanted to be clear. I’m talking about DPW facility garage. I know you’re talking about the tank farm there. I just wanted to ask the Minister for clarification. I guess I’m talking about the DPW garage that’s there. There also is an old building that they’re using right now for storage in the tank farm right now. I know the Minister has written some correspondence and I appreciate it being put on the books for some work there.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, the response is the same. We are in the planning study of having a strategic plan for replacement, upgrades and retrofits of the facilities that are going to be required as we move forward with our building maintainers. So both the facility at the tank farm and the facility for Public Works in the community are at the planning stage and we’ll share the information as to the long-term plans for that as we move forward. Right now they’re currently not in this budget, but we are working on getting the information that’s required. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

I thank the Minister for his clarity and his consistent message to me here, so I can take it for what he is saying.

I want to ask the Minister on another subject here in regard to asset management. The Norman Wells Mackenzie Mountain School, I know they had an assessment done on the energy, and I want to know if there is going to be some work done because of the amount of use of energy that school is going through. It’s costing quite a lot. I know there are other schools that have been looked at in terms of putting together some energy initiatives for facilities such as schools, and I want to know if the Mackenzie Mountain School in Norman Wells could be considered as a possible project they can use to have an energy-efficient operation, I guess.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, we are doing some work on the school in Norman Wells. We did an energy audit. It has come back with a report and we can share the information with the Member as to what we’re actually going to be doing in the school. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you. I look forward to the report there. I also want to say that I’m not too sure if the Minister did... I think they had some technology that they’re using around the communities in terms of radar in terms of energy reports or assessment. I’m not too sure if they use that in the Sahtu on some of the buildings that possibly could use some attention in terms of energy efficiency in the facilities that we use.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

Thermo-scanning is I believe what the Member is referring to, and we have used it in the Sahtu and we have used it in Norman Wells and other communities. We’ve also done some thermo-scanning of municipal facilities. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you. I think that’s a real good thing the department is doing with the thermo-scan on buildings like that. So it’s a plus.

I want to ask the Minister on another subject in terms of the coordination of granular material planning for different departments. The Minister I think has taken the lead, or I’m making the presumption that this department is taking the lead, in terms of bringing together various departments to see what type of granular materials are going to be needed in the community that year for projects for the next year. Is this something that is working very well and that’s a standard practice now by this government?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

We’ve done over 300 buildings across the North with the thermo-scanning and it’s provided us some pretty good information. We’ve also looked at doing energy audits and we’ve done a number of facilities in the Member’s riding.

In terms of the gravel supply and coordination from Public Works, we do upgrade our assessments twice a year and we have had some very good success in a lot of the communities in terms of acquiring gravel and savings through economies of scale, partnering up with government departments -- Housing Corporation and others -- and it’s also allowed the communities to provide stockpiles of different types of required gravel that they feel they would need over the years. So it’s working quite well. We still do have challenges, however, in some communities that have difficulty accessing sources of gravel, but we’ll continue to work on that.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

Thank you, Minister. Any last comment, Mr. Yakeleya?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Yes, last comment, just on the technical support for Safe Drinking Water Initiative. Can the Minister just allude to the standards that we want to bring up in terms of the water for the Safe Drinking Water Initiative, the support for the municipalities that desperately do need the valuable support to make sure that our water is always at a standard, that we can assure our people that this is

an issue that is being monitored throughout the year?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, our government has a multi-tiered approach towards ensuring we have safe drinking water. Our department, Public Works and Services, is a part of that along with ENR, Municipal and Community Affairs and Health. We get involved during the planning study portion. Once there’s a source of water identified, we help with the engineering, we help with testing the source and things of that nature. There are also other departments involved as it goes up the line. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

Thank you, Minister. I allowed Mr. Yakeleya to run beyond; we can put you back on the list if you wish, Mr. Yakeleya. Next I have on my list Mr. Hawkins.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’m just trying to find out a little information through this next budgeting cycle. Has the Department of Public Works done any work to establish any office space in the Yellowknife core, either consolidating space or developing future space for some type of organization of some of the teams that the territorial government has throughout its system? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Minister McLeod. Sorry about that. Mr. Guy.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Paul Guy

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Currently, right now, as part of the work we’re doing around the general purpose office space review, we’re also undertaking to develop a general office plan for the GNWT’s office space needs in Yellowknife. That’s part of the work that we currently have identified as part of the planning study. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you for that. Through that planning of your general office space, as you’ve pointed out for the record there, what type of work has been done to avoid market disruption? Has a study gone on and is that available for Members to take into consideration? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Minister McLeod or Mr. Guy? Mr. Guy.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Paul Guy

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, the market disruption was looked at during the work that the Department of Executive did working with ITI on the general purpose office space review. That analysis was done as part of that study. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

When was that market analysis done and would the department be willing to offer a copy to Members? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Paul Guy

That work was done over the last fiscal year. I think it was probably started around this time last year and it concluded during the summer of 2009. That report was prepared on behalf of the Department of Executive, so they would have to

respond to the release of that information. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

How far along is this general purpose office space? How far along is it within the system? Has a particular space -- and when I say “space,” I mean property, obviously -- been identified at this particular time and, if so, how large is that particular space? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Guy. Sorry about that. Minister McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

Yes, Mr. Chairman, right now we’re at the planning stage. We have, I believe, some money earmarked towards that in a supp and we have looked at a number of options in terms of sites and have looked at building size and things of that nature, but we’re still fairly early in the review.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Chairman, has a particular size of the general office space been decided upon at this particular stage? If I hear the Minister correctly and the DM, that this project is sort of in the early stages, but has a particular size of a potential building been identified? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, the size of the building that we would like to bring forward is 6,000 square metres and it’s around the same size as the Laing Building, I believe. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

In the market disruption study process, Mr. Guy has mentioned it had been done over the last fiscal year. Obviously it’s pretty recent, it sounds. As many people would know, the Bellanca Building is coming to a point here very shortly that it will be empty and I’m just wondering, was that building taken into consideration, knowing that that building will be empty in about a year, year and a half. Was that considered in the market disruption study? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, yes, we took that into consideration. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Is there anything that the Minister can speak to the size of the market, how it will change, or is that a better question for the Department of Executive? In essence, I want to get a sense of the type of impact this will have on the Yellowknife market at this particular time, knowing that potentially again -- we’re speaking potentially here -- of a new government office building and we also know that one commercial building is opening up very quickly here. So I’m trying to get a sense of the size and magnitude of shift in the market that may or may not happen. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, we can certainly point to the fact that the availability of office space has been practically zero in Yellowknife. The demand is certainly growing and

we feel this is a valued investment. It would help in many different ways and, yes, the people that are planning to have available office space are quite aware of what we’re doing. In fact, they are working on some of the aspects of this new building with us.

Oh, I’m sorry; I should correct that. I just had a correction here. They are working on another building that will be opening up office space.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

I know, of course, every fiscal dollar is an important fiscal dollar that we have and it’s important to use it wisely. Has the Department of Public Works considered the potential opening up of the Bellanca Building in the next year, year and a half, to consider it in the context of would it suit their needs as opposed to building a new building for general purpose office space? Has that consideration or discussion happened at all?

I’m not speaking in the sense of I don’t want investment in our territorial economy; I’m just concerned of the market disruption this will play. One of the things the department needs to hear, from both my point of view as well as the market point of view, is that when we... You know, I don’t believe we’re in the business to make sure that every leased space is picked up, but what this does is puts a lot of small retail spaces at risk as well. So it’s that type of disruption when a larger space becomes available, it can have many devastating ripple effects on our small little leasing market in our community. So I just wanted to find out if the Department of Public Works has even had a discussion with them in the context of possibilities whereas that space may be suitable. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, we see this investment as a positive move; we see this as an ability to open up new office space. We also have had discussions with the people that the Member is referring to. The Member is aware, I believe, that the people who are going to have the available office space are building a new building to put the very offices that they have into this new office space. So there’s been discussion. I think most of the major players in Yellowknife are aware and have had some discussion at least with the concept if not some of the detail. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Nobody else on the list on asset management, operations expenditure summary, $81.946 million.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Ramsay

Page 7-18, asset management, active positions. Questions? Agreed?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Ramsay

Page 7-21, Technology Service Centre, operations expenditure summary, $1.361 million.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Ramsay

Mr. Yake... Oh, Mr. Bromley, then Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I understand that the education authorities have been removed from the network and I’m wondering, first of all, have I got that right. Is there a cost associated with this? When is it going to happen? And, finally, is it difficult to do this? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Mr. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, no, the education institutions haven’t been removed from the service.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Yes, I realize they haven’t, but I understood that that was the plan. If that’s not the plan, I’m happy to learn that.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, we’ll have our TSC expert here speak on some of the more specific detail as to what we have done and what will be happening.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Gault

Thank you, Mr. Chair. There has been a lot of...

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

Just wait until the light comes on.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Gault

Sorry. Okay? Okay, good? Thank you, Mr... Not yet?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Ramsay

Thank you, Ms. Gault. Thank you, Mr. Minister. You just have to be directed through the chair, Ms. Gault. Ms. Gault.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Gault

Thank you, Mr. Chair. There has been a lot of change in the network and in the traffic patterns of all departments, Education in particular being a particular heavy user by the nature of their activity and with the students. What we are looking at is a redesign of our network. So this is not setting up separate or private networks for one department or other, but looking at all departments, looking at the traffic flows within the whole network and then finding what is the optimal traffic patterns for each. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Ramsay

Thank you, Ms. Gault. Anything further, Mr. Bromley?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the comments towards greater understanding here. Is there a cost that’s estimated to that budgeted for it and do we know is there a schedule yet for that? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Gault

In working with the department, there could be a very small equipment-related cost specific to Education. That would be at their discretion for additional reporting for their usage. But the capacity that has already been forecasted and has been within the approved submission, so this is really a redesign of traffic versus an incremental cost.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Ramsay

Thank you, Ms. Gault. Next the chair will recognize Mr. Yakeleya.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Chair. One question to this part here. In terms of the funding, it seems that it’s going up almost every year. Is there some type of control in terms of the Technical Services Centre in terms of the expenditures? Is it going to level out in terms of the increases that we’re seeing every year in terms of this piece of work here?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, we’re looking at the change, and the change is as a result of a net change to the amortization expense of $94,000.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Yakeleya. Okay, thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Next I have Mr. Hawkins.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just on the TSC area, I’ve always been a good supporter of the direction the TSC has been going. I think it made good sense when they were going the direction. One concern I’d like to highlight, perhaps it more of a myth as opposed to a fact, but I’m hearing a lot of concern about the size of the network sort of being pared down on employees. So, in other words, the usage, storage, those types of things are being pared back, if I can leave it as simple as that. Is there any truth to that, from this point of view? Are there any changes in our network that are reflecting usage for whether it’s employees who want to use the network or store things on the particular network? Of course, we are talking work-related issues. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Ms. Gault.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Gault

Thank you, Mr. Chair. There is no question storage growth is a real challenge for TSC and for GNWT. What we find as we manage to contain our storage through increased technology devices, departments more and more are requiring more storage because of applications that are required by the government. Each year we budget for additional infrastructure growth. At this point, it’s finding that balance, but we see it increasing, but more in a controlled fashion as the technology allows us to tier our levels of storage so that we can make that cheaper and more compact. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

I appreciate that answer. I’m noticing it a little bit myself. People will start sending large attachments. I mean, we’re starting to see reports. I mean, there’s been discussion by this House. I think this House, the Assembly is trying to lead by example, where we keep more documents in electronic form rather than paper form. Things of that nature, and I see that challenge sort of coming

up. I’m just wondering how the TSC is responding to the fact that, you know, I can open up my e-mail any day of the week and there are several attachments of three, four or five megabytes each and, you know, you always have to aggressively stay on top of your e-mail. And it’s difficult, because e-mail are also an important asset to people like us in our job, not unlike any other person in our government system where they need to keep information and store it and some of it is very relevant that we need to go back to it. The management of this type of information is extremely critical. I mean, any project officer will tell you they’ll probably keep every e-mail they’ve ever had on a particular project. Any MLA in this room here will probably tell you that they need to keep every particular e-mail concerning certain constituents because they’ve been through difficult situations and whatnot, ones that require a high level of management that you want to make sure that every detail and every step has been followed or followed through for them on their behalf, and that type of information. My concern being is it getting smaller, that capacity? Is it coming down on us? The fact is, people are using this technology more and more. Is it keeping pace with the demands that are coming forward?

Thank you, Mr. Chair. If I could hear some comments in that regard. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Gault

To summarize, I think I can tell you about three initiatives to specifically address. One of these is in e-mail archiving that TSC is leading. This will condense the amount of space for e-mails. We’ll be looking to deliver that toward the end of this year.

There is an enterprise document management initiative that’s being looked at now to address the cross-government-wide use and proliferation of documents duplication. That’s probably a one to two-year horizon. As well, as I mentioned, the tiered storage. We’re hoping to move toward that over this coming year. So there are three initiatives we are hoping will address the growing demand. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you for that. That’s good news to hear. I feel very sad to say I actually understand what you’re saying and I can see how it works too.

Just for the record one more time, has there been any change in restriction of flow or storage capacity that we’ve enjoyed in the context of doing work via e-mail or storage of our work? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Gault

No, we have not done any restrictions. We will reach capacity or close to our certain limit and we will send a note out to departments and ask them to move some storage or to delete, where possible. But we have never turned down departments or told them to remove important documents. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Ramsay

Thanks, Ms. Gault. Thanks, committee. We’re on page 7-21, TSC, operations expenditure summary, $1.361 million.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Ramsay

Page 7-22 and 7-23, petroleum products, operations expenditure summary, $2.134 million. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just want to follow up with some of my general comments a little more specifically and get the Minister’s take on some things here. During the business plans review, committees brought up the possibility of diversifying petroleum products to include pellets, and there was a commitment by the department to work with ENR to investigate and determine the feasibility of entering in the market to supply renewable energy products within the 16 communities served by the petroleum products division. I’m just wondering how progress is moving along on that, what the plan is, and when we can hear back on that.

The context for it is fossil fuels are a huge part of our cost of living, they’re extremely volatile in price, especially compared to alternatives like biomass products, and they don’t help the local economies at all, whereas biomass products can be a real engine to local economies especially in communities such as these 16. So again I’m wondering where we are on that. Have we started to work with ENR and when can we expect some progress on this? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Mr. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, we have not done a whole lot of work in this area. It’s something that is still being considered and we need to work with ENR on it, and we’re also waiting to see some of the work that’s going to come forward as part of the Biomass Strategy. So it’s still work that we have flagged but has not been completed to date.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Just to mention a certain frustration because I know we’re slow to move on these things, but I have been mentioning this every year and I’m really looking forward to it. I hope the Minister could focus on this soon and at least get a schedule of implementation here to us in the not-too-distance future. I appreciate the Minister’s efforts in this direction. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. That was more of a comment but, Mr. Minister, would you like to respond?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, we certainly recognize that the Member has raised a number of issues in this area, and we can commit that we’ll start working on it in this coming fiscal year and hopefully we’ll have a better response by

the next time around or the next set of business plans. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Next on the list is Mr. Yakeleya.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you. Just on the environmental management, they had a close call during spring breakup in terms of the petroleum products fuel lines. Has that been rectified and are there other issues like that, that when the ice breaks up, the fuel lines are being monitored and there are safety mechanisms in place that we don’t have a fuel spill into the Mackenzie River?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, the situation that the Member is referring to has been rectified and we believe we have alleviated the problem by moving some of the facilities to a different location.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Have similar types of issues like this also been looked at in terms of where fuel products are being pumped into the communities’ fuel tanks?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

Yes, we always are very diligent when we’re dealing with fuel and we monitor our facilities very closely. Any time there is any indication of potential contamination, we certainly don’t hesitate to move on it. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

I have just one more point. I know the community of Colville Lake is dealing with an issue here on their tank farm and I know it’s quite a costly endeavour to work with Colville Lake to move the tank farm. I just wanted you to know that I’d like to continue working with the Minister on this issue. It’s quite a costly endeavour and Colville Lake has made a request on their tank farm situation. It’s going to cost them about a million dollars to move to a place where they want to do it. It’s within their community plan. However, Colville Lake just doesn’t have that kind of dollars to be a partner with moving the tank farm. So I just wanted to let the Minister know we’ll continue knocking on his door in terms of what we can do in this situation.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, we’ve been making some investment in the community for the last number of years and as recent as 2008 when we expanded the tank farm from up to five large tanks. It is a site that’s most suitable for the tank farm.

It would be a fairly expensive, fairly significant investment that would be required to move the facility. We certainly can have that discussion with the community, but right now we have no plans in place to relocate the tank farm. We can have that discussion as we tour the Sahtu and his communities. I believe we’re going there in April sometime.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Anything further, Mr. Yakeleya? We’re on page 7-23, Public Works and Services, activity summary, petroleum products, operations expenditure summary, $2.134 million.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Ramsay

Page 7-24, Public Works and Services, information item, lease commitments – infrastructure.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Ramsay

Page 7-26, Public Works and Services, information item, Technology Service Centre chargeback. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. One of my concerns is that this is an area that seems to be a bit of a runaway train. It feeds on itself continually. I am just not convinced that we’re getting the best use out of this technology that we can. I see it’s up 17 percent this year roughly and I think we’re trying to keep our departmental increases to about 3.5 percent. This one continually outperforms just about all of the departments. I’m wondering if the department has thought of putting a cap somehow on this sort of thing or if the departments have to stay within a three-year running average of a 3 or 4 percent growth or something like this. We deal with these big ticket items continually and this seems to feed into that. I’d just like to throw that out there for any perspectives the Minister might have.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Mr. McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, the Member has pointed out that there has been a fairly large percentage of increase in this area and, of course, there are a number of cost drivers that we can point to. As it stands now, the departments are responsible for the cost in their areas. It’s fairly difficult for us to on our own put a cap on it, but that’s something that we can certainly have a discussion on. We can spend quite a bit of time talking and investigating the different areas that are driving the costs up. We’ve offered committee a more detailed briefing and that offer is still on the table if the Members would like to have it.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

We’ve had briefings before on this. I think perhaps maybe I’d prefer a briefing on how we can put a cap on these expenditures so that they stay within the realities the rest of the departments are expected to stay within. That would probably be the best approach.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

It’s not something we can do on our own, but we certainly can have the different departments have that kind of discussion with all the different areas that need investment, and the growing concerns of usage and support, and security and compliance, and all the different factors. But it’s very difficult for me to say, yes, we’ll

provide a cap. A lot of departments have requirements that would be affected. So we can look at the possible options. We can commit to having discussions with our colleagues and also have that with committee if that’s the desire.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

I appreciate that the Minister is in a bit of an awkward place here. It’s just that all the numbers are here. If he would play a role or take the lead on that, it would be great. I know at home I use Freeware myself and it does all the same things. I know there are lots of specific and specialized requirements and so on. I think there would be ways... If people have to, they usually get pretty creative and inventive about how to live within their means. I appreciate that commitment. Just a comment.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Next the chair is going to recognize Mr. Yakeleya.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

No. No.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Committee, we’re on page 7-26, Public Works and Services, information item, Technology Service Centre chargeback.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Ramsay

That’s continued on page 7-27, Public Works and Services, information item, Technology Service Centre chargeback, active positions.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Ramsay

Page 7-28, Public Works and Services, information item, Public Stores Revolving Fund.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Ramsay

Page 7-30, Public Works and Services, information item, Petroleum Products Revolving Fund.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Ramsay

Page 7-31, Public Works and Services, information item, Petroleum Products Revolving Fund, active positions.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Ramsay

Page 7-32, Public Works and Services, information item, work performed on behalf of others. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just wonder about the Beaufort-Delta Health and Social Services Authority maintenance services. Is that a number that comes in later? I’m just wondering why that seems to be missing here, if you catch that.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Mr. McLeod. Mr. Guy.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Paul Guy

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That was covered under the transfer of maintenance, this

being consolidated into Public Works. That funding no longer shows up in 2010-2011 because we won’t be doing that on a chargeback arrangement. Same also applies to Aurora College.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. Guy. Anything further, Mr. Bromley? Page 7-32, Public Works and Services, information item, work performed on behalf of others.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Ramsay

Page 7-33, Public Works and Services, information item, work performed on behalf of others, continued.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Ramsay

That continues on page 7- 34, Public Works and Services, information item, work performed on behalf of others, continued.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Ramsay

Thank you, committee. I would now ask you to return to page 7-7 for consideration of the department summary. Page 7-7, Public Works and Services, department summary, operations expenditure summary, $92.764 million.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Ramsay

Does the committee agree that consideration of the Department of Public Works and Services main estimates is concluded?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Ramsay

I’d like to thank the committee, the Minister and his staff, as well, for being with us this afternoon. Does the committee agree we have the Sergeant-at-Arms escort the witnesses out?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Ramsay

Mr. Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Mr. Chairman, I move that we report progress.

---Carried

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Ramsay

I will now rise and report progress. Thank you and safe travels to those who are travelling.

Report of Committee of the Whole
Report of Committee of the Whole

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Can I have the report of Committee of the Whole, please, Mr. Ramsay?

Report of Committee of the Whole
Report of Committee of the Whole

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, your committee has been considering Tabled Document 62-16(4), NWT Main Estimates, 2010-2011, and would like to report progress. I move that the report of Committee of the Whole be concurred with.

Report of Committee of the Whole
Report of Committee of the Whole

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Do we have a seconder? The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Bromley.

---Carried

Item 22, third reading of bills. Mr. Clerk, orders of the day.

Orders of the Day
Orders of the Day

Tim Mercer Clerk Of The House

Mr. Speaker, orders of the day for Monday, February 22, 2010, 1:30 p.m.:

1. Prayer

2. Ministers’

Statements

3. Members’

Statements

4. Returns to Oral Questions

5. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

6. Acknowledgements

7. Oral

Questions

8. Written

Questions

9. Returns to Written Questions

10. Replies to Opening Address

11. Petitions

12. Reports of Standing and Special Committees

13. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills

14. Tabling of Documents

15. Notices of Motion

16. Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills

17. Motions

18. First Reading of Bills

19. Second Reading of Bills

20. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of

Bills and Other Matters

- Bill 2, Forgiveness of Debts Act, 2009-2010

- Bill 4, An Act to Amend the Child and Family Services Act

- Bill 7, An Act to Amend the Summary Conviction Procedures Act

- Tabled Document 62-16(4), Northwest Territories Main Estimates, 2010-2011

- Tabled Document 78-16(4), Supplementary Appropriation (Operations Expenditures) No. 3, 2009-2010

- Tabled Document 80-16(4), Supplementary Appropriation (Infrastructure Expenditures) No 4, 2009-2010

- Minister’s Statement 47-16(4), Transfer of the Public Housing Rental Subsidy

- Committee Report 5-16(4), Report on the Review of the 2008-2009 Human Rights Commission Report

21. Report of Committee of the Whole

22. Third Reading of Bills

23. Orders of the Day

Orders of the Day
Orders of the Day

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Clerk. Accordingly, this House stands adjourned until Monday, February 22nd at 1:30 p.m.

---ADJOURNMENT

The House adjourned at 4:42 p.m.