Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. The honourable Member for Kam Lake, Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Colleagues, I would like to draw your attention to the gallery today to the presence of our Conflict of Interest Commissioner, Mr. Gerry Gerrand, who is with us today.

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We welcome everyone in the gallery today. I hope you are enjoying the proceedings. It is always nice to have an audience in here. Item 6, acknowledgements. Item 7, oral questions. The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Bromley.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions are on caribou today. I am wondering, first of all, for the Minister, in consultation leading up to the ban, how did the Minister take into consideration the fact that the Yellowknives Dene had not settled their land claims negotiations? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. The honourable Minister of Environment and Natural Resources, Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We recognize very clearly that this is a politically complex part of the country with Tlicho with settled claims, and the Yellowknives Tlicho with unsettled claims, along with the Northwest Territories Metis, the largest population centre, the most heavily drawn upon herd in the Northwest Territories. We recognize that this whole process we are engaged in the longer term process for our Caribou Management Plan is going to require whole involvement of all the aboriginal governments. We are committed to doing that. When we looked at the ban, we looked at the caribou numbers that were done, recognizing, as the Premier pointed out, that caribou don’t look at political jurisdiction, they just do what they do. The numbers are precipitously dropped over the last three years and we made the decision based on the conservation aspects. Thank you.

I appreciate those remarks. I recognize there is the conservation issue for the caribou. According to the Minister’s experts, mineral developments have removed about 4 percent of the Bathurst range from them, through disturbance and avoidance. The experts also say that the harvestable rate, the maintainable rate is about 4 percent. With the range diminished by that much, ongoing harvest would be focussed on either fewer caribou or on caribou with reduced vigour and

unable to handle the same amount of harvest. This could contribute to the decline and it requires consideration and management action. Along with the ban on hunting, what restrictions is the Minister placing on mineral development activity to protect the caribou, and if it is beyond the range of this jurisdiction, what recommendations is he making to the federal government in that direction?

Each of the diamond mines was reviewed and I’ve given approval. The issue of cumulative impact is one that has come more and more into the forefront as we look at resource development. What we’re dealing with, with the band, is a short-term period of three to four months that will get us through the hunting season and allow the longer-term process for a harvest management plan to be put into effect. It’s during that longer-term process that the work done to look at what the effects are, what are the variables that are driving the caribou numbers down have to be taken into consideration so that we can make the best decisions possible. If out of that process comes the issue of requirement for review of the cumulative impact, then we’ll be responding to those recommendations as they come forward.

I’m looking forward to action on that front. Obviously they are having impact, as the Minister’s own staff are telling us. What monitoring is being one to at least measure the continuing harvest of Bathurst caribou from the range that’s under the restriction of the ban?

We’ve enhanced the coverage with the officers around Yellowknife. As well, they’re working in Behchoko with staff. We’ve also taken on some part-time seasonal staff to assist the officers that are currently on the job.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Final supplementary, Mr. Bromley.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you for those comments. We’ve become pretty good over the years at monitoring the caribou at their calving grounds. It’s been a long process, but I think the counts now are at least statistically sound and so on, and increasingly reliable. But to date we have not been able to measure or count dead caribou. That has greatly reduced our ability to manage the current situation and the past situation that’s allowed this to develop. What is the Minister doing to enable us to be able to count accurately dead caribou and thus actually manage the harvest in a sound and reasonable way before it gets to an emergency situation?

The Member makes a good point. There is a wide range of numbers in terms of the harvest in the North Slave on the Bathurst; anywhere from 7,000 to 10,000 a year, depending on who you talk to. The issue is, and part of the harvest management plan is going

to have to deal with the issue, the requirement for mandatory reporting from all harvesters. Right now we can tell how many outfitters there are, how many resident tags there are, but we have no clear idea except on a voluntary basis on the aboriginal harvest. So part of the ability to have a good harvest management plan is to set up a process agreeable to all parties that is going to allow us to get that information so we can count with considerably more accuracy the amount of animals taken out of any given herd, be it the Bathurst, the Cape Bathurst, the Porcupine, Bluenose-West, East, Ahiak, or the Beverly.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. The honourable Member for Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to ask the Minister of ENR regarding the traditional knowledge policy this government is leading in terms of this very important issue of caribou survival. I want to ask the Minister in terms of the type of involvement. Can he indicate to me the traditional knowledge information from the elders? Is there any indication of records and meetings? The elders have spoken about this issue here and what could be done with the survival of the herd. What have the elders told him?

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. The honourable Minister responsible for Environment and Natural Resources, Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The elders, aboriginal governments, aboriginal leaders, all Northerners have told us that caribou are of critical importance. I quoted part of a motion that was made in the Dene Assembly in 2007 that exemplifies and gives voice to that concern through our traditional knowledge process. I can point to some very specific things we have done. For example, on the Water Strategy we have done it with an aboriginal oversight committee. We have worked with all the communities up and down the valley. We have held workshops with our Species at Risk Act. We’ve worked very closely with the co-management boards and their representatives to do the drafting the same as we’re doing with the Wildlife Act. We work on a daily basis, almost, on all the caribou issues with the boards constituted through land claims, to deal with various issues like the caribou.

In this region at all the tables that we have had these consultations and work, there’s been a seat for the Akaitcho and for the Yellowknives. I can tell you, unfortunately, for example with the Water Strategy, that the seat has remained unoccupied. With the Species at Risk Act the seat has remained unoccupied. With the Wildlife Act the seat has

remained unoccupied. We would be very welcoming and happy to have all the aboriginal governments and their representatives at the table, but we are fully committed to the process of involvement and traditional knowledge.

The Minister has indicated the number of successful points in terms of him getting feedback from the aboriginal governments and leaders, and probably through the elders. I want to ask the Minister in terms of this specific issue of the caribou with respect to what the elders specifically said to him about the issue of the caribou in terms of the survival to the aboriginal people. What has the Minister heard from the elders down the Mackenzie Valley regarding the caribou and how to deal or live with the caribou?

I can point to the two workshops that were held I believe in October, here at the ski chalet, where we brought in representatives from all the stakeholders from around the lake and from some southern jurisdictions. Many of them were elder status, if we use 50 or 60 as the gauge for elder status. The information, insight, exhortation that we got was very similar to what we hear up and down the valley about the value and importance of the caribou, the need to respect the animals, the need to make sure we do the right thing so that our grandchildren and future generations are in fact able to exercise their rights, because there will be caribou going far into the future.

A difference of opinions for the elders; Mr. Miltenberger has used the status of 50 years and over as an elder. If you have that number, then I think you have a few elders sitting around this table here. He also indicated to respect the animals. I guess I wanted to ask what the Minister has heard from the elders. I’ve heard the elders saying they put collars onto our caribou, and the elders don’t like that. They say to take the collars off. What collars are on the animals? That’s showing a real disrespect to the caribou. I want to ask the Minister if he has heard this from the elders, of putting collars on the caribou.

We have heard that concern from some elders, but we also know that if you take the long view that it is actually out of respect, that we’re doing this to try to get the best understanding possible about the caribou, which covers vast tracks of land and moving as only caribou know how they’re going to move, so that we can have the information to make the most informed decision both as co-management boards and as the territorial government. We do it very carefully. We do it with as much involvement of the local aboriginal governments and co-management boards as possible, recognizing that there is a fundamental need for some very basic up-to-date and comprehensive information on numbers.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Final supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Last summer when we completed the hike on the CANOL Trail, the last 50 miles, the first thing that we did was we went to see the elders and talk about the last 50 miles of the CANOL. The elders talked about the trail and what we should be looking for, because the elders have travelled on that land, similar to what the caribou have travelled. Our elders have travelled all over the land on this vast tract of land. I want to know from the Minister about the involvement and input of elders when they say things about the caribou. It seems that we give more weight to the scientific method of evidence and more weight to decision-making than to our traditional knowledge expertise in the communities. Can the Minister indicate to me, in terms of going forward, that this issue on banning caribou and this specific issue, more weight went on the scientific evidence than the traditional knowledge by our elders?

I would submit to the Member and to this House that, in fact, this government has a very aggressive, very positive, forward-thinking Traditional Knowledge Strategy. It’s formalized. It applies to all government. ENR has a lead role to play, but it’s involved in all the critical work we do with water, with caribou, with legislation, with education, with health. We have made, and we’re going to continue to make, a strong commitment. We’ve invested money. It’s part of our corporate mentality going forward, and it’s recognized as a very fundamental need. Our science agenda makes very, very clear reference to the need to balance both the scientific and the traditional knowledge.

So I would suggest to the Member that he should be congratulating this government on the investment in farsighted attempts they have made and practices they have put into place with traditional knowledge, and we’re going to continue to do that. Thank you.