Thank you, Madam Chair. The committee wishes to consider Tabled Document 1-17(2).

Thank you. Is committee agreed?

Agreed. Thank you. We’ll do that after a short break.

---SHORT RECESS

I’d like to call Committee of the Whole back to order. We are still dealing with Tabled Document 1-17(2), Interim Appropriation 2012-2013. Yesterday when we had left off, we had dealt with all the departments with the exception of the Department of Transportation. Mr. Menicoche.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I move that this committee resume consideration of item 11, Department of Transportation, contained in Tabled Document 1-17(2), Interim Appropriation 2012-2013, summary of interim appropriations found on page 3. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. The motion has been circulated. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Question is being called.

---Carried

Department of Transportation, as per your documents it is item number 11. Appropriation authority required, $29.848 million. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Madam Chair. In order to conclude this process, I would request permission to go to the witness table and bring in some witnesses.

Thank you. Does committee agree?

Agreed. Thank you. I will ask the Sergeant-at-Arms to escort Mr. Miltenberger’s witnesses to the witness table.

I’ll ask Mr. Miltenberger if he’ll please introduce his witnesses for the record.

Thank you, Madam Chair. From the Department of Finance I have with me the deputy minister, Mike Aumond, and the director of the Financial Management Board Secretariat, Olin Lovely.

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Department of Transportation, Mr. Menicoche.

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. In the previous day’s deliberations in Committee of the Whole, I was asking some questions on Highway No. 7 and the plan for the department to deal with the conditions on Highway No. 7, fixing it up. I know that some of the issues have been because of lack of capital dollars and I continue to remain frustrated that there were zero dollars allocated in the 2012-13 Capital Budget as it stands.

Another issue that I do have is that there are appropriations in the interim budget and in our budget for operations and maintenance of Highway No. 7, but myself, my constituents and communities continue to be frustrated that the expenditures are done in August and September during the rainy season. It’s late in the season and I’ve continued being at the table; I’ve been in the House saying look, we’ve got to spend the money early. I get verbal commitments that the money will be expended earlier so that we can address some of the highway conditions and get it done early in the season. But that’s been falling on deaf ears.

So, once again, in yesterday’s deliberations I asked for a plan for Highway No. 7. I’m pleased that I did get a note from the Finance Minister’s office, but the plan that they indicate for me for Highway No. 7 is to monitor conditions during the spring, and that’s not something that either me or my constituents wanted to hear. I’d like to know when will they be constructing, what will they be constructing, and I’d like to have a firm written commitment that they’ll do this construction early in the season.

I’ve been here almost nine years, I’ve been fighting for Highway No. 7 for that long and that was the biggest concern out of Fort Liard and Fort Simpson, my whole riding of Nahendeh, anybody that travels down Highway No. 7. It affects our tourism years. Over the years we used to have busloads of tourists that would go to Fort Simpson. That has declined. In fact, the recent statistics from ITI show that tourism has declined in the Nahendeh region and if there’s anything that adds some economic stimulus to any region it’s tourism, and that cannot be happening when Highway No. 7 is known to be impassable.

People from Fort Nelson, people even from the Yellowknife tourism office, Hay River, Enterprise, they all advise people not to use Highway No. 7 every year and that takes away from us. It’s a real shame that Highway No. 7 has that kind of a reputation. In fact, talking with one of the guys in Simpson that has international contacts, even people from Germany phone him up about this time of year or else in early spring about the condition of Highway No. 7 as we get lots of European tourists and they do want to make the trip up to our northern territories and one of the ways to do it, if they do want to access the Nahanni National Park,

a lot of them do it fly-in, but a lot of them drive in as well. Once they know about Highway No. 7 it scares them away.

So the reasons are many that we should pay attention to this highway and I’m frustrated with this government for their inattention to Highway No. 7. There’s zero dollars for capital in 2012-2013 and then we’ve got our interim budget appropriations. Like I said, I want to know the plan for Highway No. 7. There are some carry-over dollars from last year, but the key is to spend it early in prime construction season, and I don’t see that. I’ve got no commitment about that and it’s equally frustrating. So I’d like the Finance Minister or the Transportation Minister to give me some commitment, some written commitment that they’ll spend these funds early.

Every year about April or May Highway No. 7 does collapse. So we’ve got to be prepared for that and I would like to know how they’re going to be prepared for it other than monitoring it, because I really believe that we need a plan and we’re here early enough, I’m raising it early enough that I believe that we can come up with an adequate plan that the roads are open. If there’s an issue, then it can be addressed right away. I’d like to know the plan about that, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Minister Miltenberger.

Thank you, Madam Chair. The Member is correct; the capital budget was passed in November and it was a very modest capital budget as we are all aware going into the deliberations given our fiscal circumstances. We do have some plans in the midterm to address that as we’ve been discussing in this House over the last number of days.

In regard to the specific timing and sequence of the use of the O and M money this coming spring, Madam Chair, with your concurrence I’d ask Minister Ramsay to speak to those specific program questions. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Minister Ramsay.

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I appreciate the Member’s concerns about Highway No. 7 and the condition they’re in. Also, the condition as it relates to tourism in the Deh Cho, in his riding, it’s a situation where we have approved a capital plan. We are having some difficulty trying to come up with a long-term plan, which will be required for Highway No. 7, but we are going to need to do that. It needs to be reconstructed. Most of that highway will need some substantial reconstruction in the neighbourhood of $250 million. Those dollars we just do not have today. I think going forward we need to try to find a way to get some capital dollars in a substantial way

into Highway No. 7, but currently that’s just not the case. The Member has talked of it and I know the Finance Minister has talked to this, as well, about the fact that we’re carrying over approximately $1.3 million. I don’t have a crystal ball, but that money will undoubtedly be spent early in the season and if need be, we are going to have to come forward with some type of emergency or special supplementary funding if an emergency does arise, and I think that’s something that we have to live with. We just don’t have any other choice.

So we’re going to have to watch things closely as they play themselves out, and I just want to assure the Member that we need to find a long-term plan to address the condition of Highway No. 7 in a meaningful way and that is going to include a substantial amount of capital dollars to begin the reconstruction of that road. That hopefully can happen here in the next few years that we can chart a course forward for Highway No. 7. But again, we need the dollars, Madam Chair. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Ramsay. Mr. Menicoche.

Thank you very much,

Madam Chair. Like I said, for nine years I’ve been here and I still find it incomprehensible and with disbelief that they did not allocate any capital dollars to Highway No. 7, because I’ve stated time and time again, almost every session, about the condition of Highway No. 7 and every spring it collapses. Previous Ministers have always said yes, we’ll spend the money early in the season, but I hear that again. So it’s not good enough for me. I want a written commitment, perhaps from the Minister of Transportation, that yes, they will spend a little carry-over money and capital money that they have early in the season and spend it, because for the past eight seasons construction always happens in August and September and that’s when the rainy season is. It impacts the construction and leads to poorer construction. I don’t know why that is. Why do we continue to put the Nahendeh highway systems on the backburner?

We approved the capital budget in November for the last few years actually, but still last August they were tendering out a contract to chipseal Highway No. 7, which I was very happy to hear about, but they were tendering it out in July. What’s going on? Why are they tendering it out in July? We gave them approval in November.

So that’s the kind of frustrations that I’d like to bring to the table today, Madam Chair. When it comes to this O and M budget, whatever money is there I want to ask and get a commitment from the Minister of Transportation that, yes, they will start construction early in the new year. I don’t want to hear soft commitments. I’ve been hearing that for eight years and that’s not good enough for me

anymore. We’ve got to take care of the needs of Highway No. 7.

I know that our government is spending lots of time putting the Inuvik-Tuk highway on the Prime Minister’s lips. He’s got to hear Highway No. 7 as well. That’s equally important to our North. It’s beneficial to our North. We’ve got a couple of major infrastructure private sector projects in the region that will depend on Highway No. 7. The Enbridge oil spill depends on Highway No. 7. They’re moving all their product down there. It will be in even poorer shape when springtime rolls around there.

I’d like our government and the Department of Transportation to start paying attention to Highway No. 7 in my riding, and that begins by the commitment and the action of working on that highway early in the season and early enough. Like I said, your commitment to monitor and respond to road conditions as they need is just not good enough. We need firm commitments. We need action, not words. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. I allowed a little bit of extension beyond the 10 minutes there. We can come back to you after if you like, but next on the list I have Minister Ramsay.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I wanted to respond to Member Menicoche’s concerns once again. We are hopeful that the $12 million that we have spent over the past four years on Highway No. 7 will help to address past problems that we’ve seen with Highway No. 7. But going forward, the reality is we have $1.3 million. That’s all we have for next year. If the Member wants a commitment that that money will be spent early in the season, that’s something we can look at. My belief is it will be spent early in the season and we will undoubtedly require more money if the road conditions are such that we need to come back for supplementary funding to address the concerns.

It is a tough situation, but as I mentioned before, I want to work with the Member and this government to try to come up with a long-term plan to reconstruct Highway No. 7, and that’s going to include some substantial capital dollars that today we just do not have. We have to try to find that and get that work done. I agree with the Member on that. Thank you.