This is page numbers 2283 – 2332 of the Hansard for the 17th Assembly, 4th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was college.

Topics

The House met at 1:31 p.m.

---Prayer

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Good afternoon, colleagues. Today I would like to honour the memory of our elder Mrs. Elizabeth Blake from Tetlit Zheh, who was an example for our communities. She was a beautiful mother and a loving jijuu.

Elizabeth Blake was born on November 5, 1914, in Caribou River, Yukon Territory. She grew up living off the land, working hard to make a living. Married to Fred Blake, they had 14 children, 60 grandchildren, 89 great-grandchildren and 19 great-great-grandchildren.

Raising a large family out on the land was hard work. Elizabeth Blake enjoyed trapping, snaring rabbits and tanning moose hides. Later on, she was an active member for the Women’s Auxiliary of St. Matthew’s Anglican Church.

This hardworking woman was dedicated to her family and she made sure each member felt special.

Elizabeth Blake was a keeper of the Gwich’in culture.

Elizabeth Blake passed away on February 21, 2013. We offer our deepest condolences to her family and friends.

On a personal note, I never ever did go through Fort McPherson without stopping at her house to have tea with her because she’d always tell stories. She was just an awesome lady. To her families and friends, our thoughts and prayers are with you.

Item 2, Ministers’ statements.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Mr. Speaker, when we developed our strategic plan, Building for the Future, residents told us that we needed to examine our home ownership programs and

recognize the different role that home ownership plays in non-market communities, than it plays in market communities and that changes were needed to our programs to make them more effective.

Mr. Speaker, as part of our actions related to the strategic plan, we will be making significant changes to Providing Assistance for Territorial Homeownership, our main home ownership subsidy program. The changes include the way we determine subsidy levels, expands the eligible pool of clients, and significantly closes the gap between the cost of home ownership and public housing.

Our subsidy approach will use the same zone approach to group communities as is used for the public housing rent scales. Subsidies will be higher in communities with higher cost of living. To use an example, an eligible household in Fort Good Hope would be able to purchase a new home for about $140,000 after receiving a subsidy under PATH. This would mean the client would have approximately $1,500 in monthly shelter costs. This is very similar to the maximum rent charged for public housing clients.

The approach to the subsidy will be different in market communities. Housing supply and development is much different in these communities, and risks and benefits related to home ownership are different than in non-market communities.

In market communities the program will focus on helping first time homeowners and will provide support to young families and others that want to move from the rental market to become homeowners.

We will also be expanding our eligibility criteria for PATH. While the program will continue to focus on those most in need, some support will be provided to households that have income levels somewhat higher than our current income thresholds. This will mean that, for example, a household in Lutselk’e earning up to approximately $95,000 in annual income will be eligible for the full subsidy and households between $95,000 and about $145,000 will be eligible to receive 50 percent of the subsidy.

Finally, in support of the 17th Legislative Assembly’s

priority to sell public housing stock, we will introduce the Public Housing Purchase Program. This program will provide up to $25,000 in

additional support for tenants of public housing units that want to purchase their unit. The NWT Housing Corporation will be proactive in making tenants aware of this opportunity.

These program changes will take effect early in the upcoming fiscal year. Communications materials are being developed and we look forward to continuing to work with residents in partnership to help them meet their housing needs.

Mr. Speaker, these changes will help address housing needs, as directed by the priorities of the 17th Legislative Assembly, and will support strong

individuals, families and communities.Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Beaulieu.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Minister of Health and Social Services

Mr. Speaker, as this Assembly is aware, cancer is the number one cause of death in the Northwest Territories. Lung cancer causes the greatest number of cancer deaths, but the most commonly diagnosed cancers are colorectal cancer in men and breast cancer in women.

When I travel to communities, this is one of the biggest concerns that people talk to me about. Our communities want to understand this disease better, and people want to know what actions they can take to change these trends.

Mr. Speaker, today representatives from the Canadian Partnership Against Cancer are in Yellowknife to meet with Health and Social Services officials and invited community guests to talk about the First Nations, Inuit and Metis Action Plan on Cancer Control.

The Canadian Partnership Against Cancer is an independent organization that works to implement Canada’s cancer control strategy, from looking at improving prevention and screening, to conducting research and improving supportive care. Today’s meetings build on our past collaboration with this organization. Over the years the partnership has supported our healthy choices programs such as Drop the Pop. They have provided technical support to the Department and Authorities. More recently, Mr. Speaker, we turned to this organization to help us respond to requests from Fort Good Hope and Fort Resolution to help them take action against cancer.

The purpose of today’s meeting is to discuss the implementation of the First Nations, Inuit and Metis Action Plan on Cancer Control, and explore opportunities for further collaborative work.

Part of the discussions with CPAC will include a review of some of the NWT’s cancer-based initiatives. This will include looking at how we implement our cancer screening programs against colorectal, cervical and breast cancer. This will help to identify priority areas where they can support our initiatives.

Mr. Speaker, we are looking for ways to provide information on cancer to communities, and looking at how we can provide better support to individuals and families affected by cancer. We must continue to prevent cancers, where possible, through regular testing at health centres and through healthy lifestyle choices, including proper diets, exercise and avoiding drugs and alcohol.

Moving forward, we will continue to build on lessons learned from last summer’s cancer sharing circles in Fort Resolution and Fort Good Hope. I am pleased that both of these reports have been shared with communities and remain available on the department’s website.

We are also pleased that Canadian Partnership Against Cancer will return in June. This will be the first time their board of directors meet in the Northwest Territories. We look forward to hosting the board as they advance their important work to reduce the burden of cancer for all Canadians.

Mr. Speaker, today we have with us Dr. Adams and Ms. Lee Fairclough. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. The honourable Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Lafferty.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mr. Speaker, Aboriginal languages are important pillars of our Northwest Territories society, they create a strong sense of identity and belonging, and we must actively work with our language communities to ensure our youth identify themselves as language and cultural ambassadors. March is Aboriginal Languages Month, and I urge all language groups to actively participate in the celebration of language and culture in their communities, not only during the month of March but at every opportunity throughout the year.

In our ongoing commitment to the preservation and revitalization of Aboriginal languages, the Department of Education, Culture and Employment continues to develop language resources to encourage use in the home, community and schools. Over the past year, five Dene language apps for Apple products were developed, and we are nearing completion of the Inuvialuit and Cree language apps. The South Slave Divisional Education Council also worked with the community of Fort Resolution to create the Chipewyan

Dictionary, and students were involved in the entire process.

Mr. Speaker, we are seeing a new direction to focus our efforts in language preservation and promotion with our students and youth. Through efforts of some of our local and territorial filmmakers, media and film arts are emerging as a new opportunity to create an identity for the cultures and languages of the North. I have spoken previously about fusing our cultures with technology, and the importance of supports and resources in place for our residents that are telling their stories through these channels. I am very excited about the possibilities.

Mr. Speaker, as part of our ongoing engagement process with the language communities, the department is hosting the second annual Aboriginal Languages Symposium from March 20 to 21, 2013. One hundred twenty-five delegates from across the territory will converge in Yellowknife to discuss ways in which to promote, preserve and revitalize our Aboriginal languages, especially with young people, a group critical to our success.

The symposium will also be used as a platform to validate the Aboriginal Languages Secretariat implementation plan and priorities with stakeholders, raise awareness, and share best practices.

Mr. Speaker, I want to recognize all those who dedicate their time to revitalizing and maintaining their Aboriginal languages. Languages strengthen our greater NWT community by creating an identity and cultural foundation for all of us. As a priority of the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, we will continue to further language and culture initiatives that help preserve, promote and revitalize these important pillars of our society. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Beaulieu.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Minister of Health and Social Services

Mr. Speaker, March is National Nutrition Month. Nutrition Month has been celebrated worldwide since 1980 and it focuses on the importance of healthy eating and the positive impact it has on our health and well-being.

Healthy eating is important at every stage of our lives. Proper nutrition contributes to the development of healthy babies. It supports physical growth and brain development in early childhood. Kids who eat healthy foods do better at school. Young athletes need to eat well to fuel their performance. As we all grow older, healthy eating helps to avoid chronic disease.

Mr. Speaker, in Canada the increasing rates of unhealthy weights among children are becoming an epidemic. According to the Curbing Childhood Obesity report from the Public Health Agency of Canada, more than one in four childrenin Canada is overweight or obese.

This can lead to serious health issues like type 2 diabetes, heart disease and high blood pressure. If we do not address this now, our children will grow up to be less healthy and have shorter lives. This is why it is important that we focus on improving the health of our children by preparing healthy family meals, which means getting the healthiest ingredients and taking the time to cook healthy foods.

With busy lifestyles, we do not always cook, but we should still make sure we provide healthy food for our children to support their growth and development.

Mr. Speaker, in January Health and Social Services, and Education, Culture and Employment held an early childhood development roundtable. Everyone shared their fundamental belief that children must be given the best possible start in life.

One of the best ways to do this is to give children the foods they need for proper growth and development. This begins with pregnant mothers eating proper foods.

Once the baby is born, families and communities can best support the mom and baby by promoting breastfeeding and then giving them healthy foods to eat as they grow and develop.

Mr. Speaker, I really cannot state more strongly that parents need to invest in children right from the start with the right foods. Not only does unhealthy food risk a child’s overall health, but poor nutrition negatively affects proper brain development, making it hard for a child to learn at school.

Too many sweet foods lead to obesity and tooth decay. Too much sugar, salt and fat at an early age leads to chronic diseases. In the NWT, too many baby teeth are extracted, more than half of our population 18 years and older are either obese or overweight, and diabetes is on the rise.

The Department of Health and Social Services are taking steps to respond to these issues. This year we are working on healthy food guidelines for early childhood development. We are also sending out 2,000 dental kits to families with young children, and providing training for Healthy Family program workers.

We will create “Healthy Beginning” tool kits for early child development workers that support healthy eating and active living. Drop the Pop is supporting school-based activities to reduce high-calorie, sugar-sweetened beverages. In November the NWT/Nunavut Chapter of the Canadian Public

Health Association and the department held a workshop with representatives from local governments, NGOs and businesses that explored how communities can prevent chronic diseases by taking steps to create healthier environments through partnerships.

Mr. Speaker, healthy habits are ingrained early in life and are very hard to change as people get older. If we don’t change course, the sad truth is that today’s parents are predicted to outlive their children because they will develop chronic diseases like cancer, diabetes and heart disease.

We must all pull together. We are doing this with partners like the Northern Nutrition Association and our very own registered dieticians. We are very proud that we have registered dietitians and members of the Northern Nutrition Association providing services through the health and social services authorities. Through partnership with the Northern Nutrition Association and authorities, there will be several events taking place to recognize National Nutrition Month. The association will host a Facebook and twitter feed, the department will post nutrition tips and nutrition videos on its website, and dietitians throughout the territory are volunteering to hold menu planning sessions for organizations such as Bailey House, and grocery store tours.

Through these initiatives and partnerships, we will help to improve the health of our territory’s children, our most valuable resource. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. The Deputy Premier, Mr. Lafferty.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mr. Speaker, I wish to advise Members that the Honourable Bob McLeod will be absent from the House today and tomorrow to speak at the Prospectors and Developers Association of Canada Conference in Toronto and meetings with federal Ministers in Toronto and Ottawa. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Item 3, Members’ statements. The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The role of Regular Members in setting spending priorities is one of the most important features of consensus government. When we insist on changes to budgets, Regular Members are expressing their highest priorities and we expect government to act.

This government has failed miserably in that over the last year and I am fed up.

Last year Members prioritized $1.25 million targeted to finalize an Early Childhood Educator Program at Aurora College to graduate fully qualified professionals. Also included were developing community family centres and supporting community early childhood programs for young families. We have now learned that of the hundreds of thousands approved for training development, very little was spent, program development was limited and the program is now stalled.

At the community level, funds committed to family centres were held until the end of the fiscal year and then dumped quickly out the door. Hundreds of thousands are apparently being reallocated in the last weeks of the year for quick and inappropriate expenditures relative to the purpose for which they were intended.

The budget was passed in June. ECE dithered over it until November before even issuing a call for proposals. Today the money is being hustled out on last minute, bulk small purchase items in a mad rush to spend it before it disappears.

Last minute expenditures include internally duplicating the program that has already been contracted out by ECE, a program that has been in place for over a decade. Now even the museum is being told to spend early childhood dollars.

This wastage is precisely what gives government the bad reputation we often have. Let’s not forget the ECE money was moved from Inclusive Schooling, so that program suffered for what gain to early childhood development?

We set priorities. Cabinet drags its feet and continues on with its own agenda. What’s the point of consensus budgeting, Mr. Speaker?

How can we have any faith in Cabinet to take direction from the will of the House with performance like this? Where were the updates and debate over reallocation if necessary?

I will be urging committees to demand spending priority work plans from Cabinet with actions, milestones and progress reports.

I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

---Unanimous consent granted

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

I will be asking for an internal audit of how the government has performed in carrying out the Members’ amendments of past budgets, and I will seek advice from the Auditor General on the propriety of taking the money that Members vote for one cost and spending it on another. This has got to stop.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Ms. Bisaro.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The current GNWT directive on inclusive schooling states the following: “Inclusive schooling is intended to ensure equal access for all students to educational programs offered in regular classroom settings.” This very statement is symbolic of what is wrong with how inclusive schooling in the NWT is currently being funded and addressed at the department level.

It is time to revisit and redefine the directive and the funding formula for inclusive schooling. We must consider this, also from the ECE directive, “What inclusion is not:

• It does not mean having all students learn the

same thing at the same time in the same way.

• It is not simply placing students with exceptional

needs into the regular classroom without essential supports and services.

• It is not an easy solution for meeting the needs

of exceptional students.

• It is not the sole responsibility of the classroom

teacher.

• It is not the sole responsibility of the student

support assistant.”

What I hear from teachers, students, parents and community members is that this is now what inclusive schooling looks like in many classrooms in the NWT. In the absence of adequate classroom support staff and an appropriate funding formula, the students are being shortchanged under this directive.

Inclusive schooling should not be about ensuring equal access, it should be ensuring equity for NWT students. “Equity does not mean treating all students in the same way, but rather responding to the individual needs of each student and providing the conditions and interventions needed to help him or her succeed.” That’s from Ontario’s Inclusive Education Strategy.

I want to share a statement to me from a parent who is struggling with an inadequate learning environment for her child. She says, “I urge you to reconsider the current funding allocation for children with special needs. My son is not getting the education he needs to prepare him for life and what it holds for him. This will severely restrict his ability to make a living and support himself.”

I know educators, parents, education councils, authorities and board members want the best for the children in their care. In order for teachers to do that, to properly respond to individual student

needs, existing barriers must be identified and eliminated.

I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

---Unanimous consent granted

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

This means the department has to work with those education councils, authorities and boards to come up with a funding formula that ensures success for NWT students. I have the following question for the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment: Will you revise our approach to inclusive schooling to ensure all of our students can achieve success?

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. The honourable Member for Hay River North, Mr. Bouchard.

Robert Bouchard

Robert Bouchard Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am rising today to talk about the Hay River Homecoming that’s coming this June 28th to July

1st . Hay River invites all its former and current

residents to stay in the community, come back to Hay River and enjoy the festivities that are being organized. It is a time for people that were in the fishing industry, people that worked for NTCL, NorthwesTel, GNWT, or just lived in Hay River to come back, experience Hay River and take part in this great event.

I want those former residents to look up on hayriver2013.ca. There’s a website there. You can register your name. They need to know who is coming. You can see some of the lists on the website of those people who have already signed up, who’s coming back to Hay River to see the community and take part in the events. There’s going to be a community fish fry, pancake breakfast, blessing of the fleet and, obviously, a Canada Day parade.

There are a group of people in Hay River right now that have been working for over a year planning this homecoming. It’s going to be a great event. I’d like to thank those people that have already put in their time and there will be a great many more that put a lot of effort into this event. I’m just reminding everybody that’s lived in Hay River to come back home to Hay River June 28th to July 1st , and please

register at hayriver2013.ca.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Bouchard. The Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Blake.

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today is March 4th and a respected elder in Aklavik is celebrating her 98th birthday. Respected elder Mary Kendi of Aklavik reached 98 today. The family are preparing to celebrate their mother’s birthday on Saturday, March 9th , at the Sittichinli Community

Complex in Aklavik, and the community is invited to share in this event.

Mary was born in Aklavik on March 4, 1915. Mary attended the residential school in Hay River from 1920-1923. Mary and Alfred Kendi were married on July 1, 1932, and had nine children.

Mary lived the traditional lifestyle and taught many the wisdom passed down from her ancestors. Mary did traditional sewing and sewed traditional clothing for a living. Her involvement with the Women’s Auxiliary brought her to Africa, along with Bella Ross, in 1977. The family would like to recognize their mother’s accomplishments at this event this coming Saturday.

Colleagues, please help me in wishing Mary Kendi a very happy birthday today.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Blake. Mary Kendi, happy birthday on Saturday, and I hope you have a good day. The Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. For the first time in history, the NWT will have a bridge that crosses the Mackenzie and that’s a great thing. Although we are now reaping the benefits of a truly all-season road, which also includes the additional costs that the government promised would never happen, many citizens can’t help but keep asking, could the government have done this for less.

This Assembly approved an extra $10 million last spring to finish this project before the end of 2012, and as far as Minister Ramsay is concerned, that’s all water under the bridge for now. But the reality remains that this cost of the additional project could have gone on to status quo and would have cost us less, if not close to half. What would have allowed us to distribute the rest of the remaining construction process over the following year but instead we swallowed an additional $10 million in a one-lump-sum fee to the contractor so they could rush around the clock to increase the risk of the project but make sure they delivered it by November 2012.

May I remind this House that this additional $10 million – we already had a contract for it, so they didn’t actually need it – was just extra money. It

could be defined, as many citizens have told me, was this an extra $10 million of slush or simply gravy? It’s funny that an additional $10 million carrot was dangled by Minister Ramsay to get this bridge done by last fall; but the fact is they already had a contract in place to complete it, so why the additional $10 million?

As we continued to needlessly negotiate a fixed contract, this reminds the other contractors out there who want to do government bidding on northern projects that all they have to do is just wait until we’re held over a barrel because that’s when we’re ready to pay more. The taxpayers pay more.

We could learn many lessons from the Deh Cho Bridge, and I would normally urge the department to do a thorough analysis. But, you know what? My expectations of hope of that being a reality are probably very few. The only way to get to the bottom of this is to call the Auditor General in and ask them about the likelihood of actually learning anything.

The NWT, as we all know, is contemplating major infrastructure. Do you think we’ve learned, once again, on how to do things properly? My expectations and hopes have certainly been dampened. If we avoid making further promises that we cannot keep, we can only then deliver full projects the way that they were meant to be, on time and on budget. We should stop diluting the process and be honest with Northerners.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The Member for Range Lake, Mr. Dolynny.

Aboriginal Languages Month
Members’ Statements

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mahsi. [Translation] Thank you for allowing me to give this message in the Tlicho language. I have a lot of respect for many elders and Behchoko residents that I have met in my years as a pharmacist, so I have made a promise to myself that I would learn to speak some Tlicho during my term of being an MLA.

It is important that during Aboriginal Language Month we need to promote and use our language every day at home, in the community and at work. We need to celebrate our languages. We need to always encourage people to learn about them and to use them. Our children need to see us using our languages in our home, in our drum dancing, during play and during storytelling.

I know that the Tlicho language is very strong and many speak it in the Northwest Territories, but Aboriginal language use is on the decline. We have five Aboriginal languages to date that we have less than 500 residents who can speak it. I am very fearful that in the future these five Aboriginal

languages and their cultures could one day not be here. This would be a sad day for the North.

Thank you for letting me speak your beautiful language and join me in celebrating Aboriginal Languages Month. [Translation ends]

Thank you for their help, and thank you for allowing me to celebrate Aboriginal Languages Month in my own special way. Mahsi.

Aboriginal Languages Month
Members’ Statements

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Nadli.

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I have spoken many times about the lack of jobs in the communities in my region and the lack of opportunities for our young people to make a good living. It is true that there are a lot of mining jobs in our territory. In a few communities people have had some success getting those jobs, but it is not easy in communities that are a little further away from the mines. In my region very few people are working at the mines.

Unemployment is highest in our small communities. You would think that we would focus our training for jobs in the mining sector, but that is not the case. Mine training is not delivered in most of our small communities and it should be. Progress towards production has been made at the Prairie Creek Mine. Canadian Zinc is expecting a drop of its Type A water licence in the next few weeks. When the mine finally opens, there will be more than 200 new jobs available.

Canadian Zinc signed a socio-economic agreement with this government back in August 2011. The company committed to hiring 60 percent of its workforce in the North. At that time the Minister of Education noted that this is an excellent opportunity for Northerners to benefit from meaningful jobs and training, particularly in the Deh Cho. Unfortunately, that does not seem to include the communities in my Deh Cho riding.

To my knowledge, the only training that has taken place has been in Fort Simpson, Fort Liard, Nahanni Butte and at the mine itself. Aurora College was one of the main partners in delivering this training which was spearheaded by the Mine Training Society. The federal government also contributed $200,000 through CanNor.

Opportunities in mining and other development must extend to the communities in my riding and that means getting some training done very soon. I am also concerned that Canadian Zinc may not meet its target for northern hires as training is only offered in a couple of communities. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Nadli. The Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, Mr. Moses.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This past summer I was fortunate enough to attend parliamentary training down in Quebec where I learned of a couple of jurisdictions who created this legislation for mandatory and coerced treatment, that anybody who is a harm to themselves or to others that ended up in the emergency rooms would have to go under mandatory treatment. That really got me thinking and wondering if there is some type of legislation that we can implement here in the Northwest Territories.

Well, I did a lot of research. I talked to some of the jurisdictions, some of their MLAs, to discuss how we can try to do this up in the Northwest Territories. At first they said it would be challenging, but I was very optimistic to see if we could continue to pursue this.

It wasn’t until we went down to Ottawa for NWT Days where I had the opportunity to set up a meeting with the Canadian Centre on Substance Abuse, and chat with their policy and staff and try to see if there is some type of legislation that we can introduce into the House by a motion to ensure that we protect our citizens and our residents that end up in the emergency rooms, that end up in the jails, that need the help when they are harming

themselves or others.

So it wasn’t until last week when I had a good chance with our research staff, and we looked and talked about whether or not this is something possible that we can implement in the Northwest Territories, and the same discussions we had would be it would be really challenging due to the lack of resources that we have in the Northwest Territories. Well, as a result of the lack of resources that we have, a lot of people are slipping through the cracks and not being recognized or getting the help and the treatment that they need.

So last week when I went home, I took home with me the Mental Health Act. I said if we can’t create new legislation, let’s look at the type of legislation we have here and see how we can amend it, see where we’re failing, and see how we can fix this so that people who are ending up in emergency rooms, that are ending up in the correctional facilities, in the jails, how we can help them and get them back into the help that they need so they can become healthy residents.

Well, I reviewed the Mental Health Act over the weekend and there were a lot of sections that raised a lot of questions for me. I’m glad I had the opportunity to do so. Today I will have questions for

the Minister of Health and Social Services, as well as the Minister of Justice on how we can address those. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Moses. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Colleagues, I’d like to draw your attention to the presence in the gallery of our special guest, Mr. Colin Eade, from the Government of New Zealand.

Mr. Eade came highly recommended by my colleague the current High Commissioner of New Zealand to the United Kingdom and former Speaker of the House of Representatives in New Zealand, Dr. the Right Honourable Lockwood Smiths.

Mr. Eade organized his stay here in the Northwest Territories to see firsthand a non-adversarial democratic process, the way in which it has developed and evolved over time and where it is likely to evolve in the future. Mr. Eade has been driving professional development to public servants to help them understand the way the Westminster form of government works in New Zealand. He’s developed a working interest since he became a senior advisor to the Ministry of Health, including placement in the Ministers’ offices.

Members will be seeing him in the Assembly all this week while he gets to see and learn how our northern consensus government works here in our territory. I’d like to welcome Mr. Colin Eade to the House.

---Applause

Thank you for coming and taking in today’s meetings. Welcome to the House.

Item 6, acknowledgements. Item 7, oral questions. The Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, Mr. Moses.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In follow-up to my Member’s statement with regard to the Mental Health Act, my questions today are for the Minister of Health and Social Services. The interpretation of a psychiatrist under this act means a medical practitioner who holds a specialist certificate in psychiatry issued by the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada or an equivalent qualification acceptable by the Minister. I’d like to ask the Minister of Health and Social Services how many psychiatrists under this interpretation we have in the Northwest Territories.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Moses. The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Beaulieu.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Minister of Health and Social Services

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Stanton Territorial Health Authority funds two full-time psychiatrists. The Stanton Territorial Health Authority has one psychiatrist on staff and uses locums at the Dalhousie Global Psychiatry Team to cover the second position. A second psychiatrist will be joining the Stanton Territorial Health Authority staff in the summer of 2013. Additionally, Stanton Territorial Health Authority has the equivalent to a quarter full-time equivalent psychiatrist dedicated to providing child and adolescent psychiatry services.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

The reason I’m asking these questions is because a lot of the sections in the Mental Health Act deal with the information and services provided by psychiatrists.

In terms of the locum, the Minister said we had one full-time psychiatrist at Stanton Hospital and the second one is a locum. In terms of the locum psychiatrist that we use at Stanton, how many days out of the year is that locum here to provide services and assessments to residents of the Northwest Territories, to patients? How many days out of the year does that locum provide those services?

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Minister of Health and Social Services

Two positions, one is filled full time and the other one is filled by locums, and more than just one psychiatrist also filled in addition to the locums that we are using from the Dalhousie Global Psychiatric Team. I think that the second position is filled fully by locums and the Dalhousie Global Psychiatric Team. I am assuming that it would be one full-time equivalent being filled by those locums.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

In terms of psychiatry services that are offered at the emergency room, what is the protocol when somebody comes into the emergency room that needs a psychiatrist? Is there a protocol in place at the emergency room that allows those types of services to happen, or gives the medical practitioner or nurse that’s working there what they need when they deal with somebody who is mentally incompetent, or there is a mental disorder that’s in place?

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Minister of Health and Social Services

Because the actual protocols in this type of situation or scenario are determined by the health centres, hospital, or emergency centre, I don’t have the actual written protocols with me here today, but I can provide that information to the Member.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Final supplementary, Mr. Moses.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think the health centres and hospitals should determine their

protocols based on the Mental Health Act and what’s addressed in the Mental Health Act.

My last question for the Minister is in regard to these locums. Does the Department of Health and Social Services provide education on the Government of the Northwest Territories Mental Health Act to these locums that come into the Northwest Territories so that they know what the protocol is when they’re dealing with somebody who has a mental disorder and ends up in the emergency ward?

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Minister of Health and Social Services

The locums that do work in the Northwest Territories are required to know the Mental Health Act. As far as the training that they would require to ensure that they are following the Mental Health Act, again, I do not have that information with me here.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Ms. Bisaro.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions today are addressed to the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment. I want to ask some questions about the inclusive schooling funding formula. The Minister has heard Members talk about the problems with the inclusive schooling formula and the way that inclusive schooling is provided. Boards are underfunded, many of them, and the formula basically is not working. I think the current percentage applied across the board to our education authorities is inappropriate.

I would like to ask the Minister initially, what does the department do to evaluate how the education boards or authorities spend their inclusive schooling money? What do the boards provide to the department in terms of accountability? What do they provide to the department to account for their inclusive schooling money spending?

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. The honourable Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Lafferty.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. The inclusive schooling is an area that is currently under review. Based on the information we’ve received from the general public, most specifically, of course, from the Northwest Territories, we need to provide or enhance our programming. Right now we spend well over $26 million in this area. In return I think we can do better. That’s the whole area where the reporting mechanism and the framework itself we are exploring through the education renewal process. Part of that includes the schooling review. There is a reporting mechanism in place for the school boards on an annual basis, but in my view, that’s not enough. It doesn’t tell us how many special

needs students there are within the system. Those are areas we are continuing to explore and we want to enhance and improve in those areas.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks to the Minister for that response. I’m really glad to hear that the formula is under review. I think the Minister has mentioned that a number of times last week.

Some NWT communities, especially Yellowknife, tend to attract special needs students, families with kids with special needs, and they seem to come here because we have facilities and services here that aren’t available in smaller communities. I’d like to know from the Minister how the department’s inclusive schooling funding formula recognizes the extra financial burden that is borne by magnet community schools.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

The current formula funding is based on enrolment. That is the whole reason we are currently reviewing it. We want to make those changes because we have been told that it doesn’t reflect student needs or doesn’t do much in the area where we haven’t identified special needs. Based on the feedback that we’ve been receiving, and even through the early childhood development, the stakeholders, the three experts spoke to us, and in general and as well as in their research and studies and also the elders have told us that we need to re-emphasize and put that as a priority within our department and that’s what we’re doing. We are currently reviewing that actual programming and funding that’s attached to it, developing the framework itself how the reporting mechanism should be strengthened and tied to those key areas.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks to the Minister for that response. I appreciate, and gather from his response, we don’t currently have anything that recognizes sort of magnet community schools and the needs that they have. I’m really pleased to hear that that is something that the department is considering.

Similar to that, some schools obviously end up with more special needs students than others. Some end up with students with much higher needs than others. That ends up putting an extra financial burden on either a board or a school.

I’d like to know from the Minister if, at this point in time, our funding formula provides any flexibility, if there is any flexibility within the formula to give more money to one board or one school over another because of their extra special high number of needs students.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Those are discussions that we’ll take into consideration as part of the overall plan once we engage the general public on the review itself. The Member is correct that there are certain schools, certain funding may not be enough. Also, there are some schools that

do not have equipment, such as small communities, isolated communities. Those are the factors we need to seriously look at. Based on enrolment does capture all schools. The review is before us and we want to make those changes that will reflect on what’s been said, what’s been heard around the Northwest Territories from the parents, from the experts, even from the professionals. Those are the areas that have been stressed to us as my department and we took those into consideration as we move forward.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Final supplementary, Ms. Bisaro.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thanks to the Minister. I appreciate that we’re going to have all these various and sundry factors looked at. I think it is high time.

This formula hasn’t been working for quite a while. I’d like to know from the Minister if he can give us any kind of idea when the formula will be revised and when we can see an implementation of a new revised formula. Will it be at the start of the school year for 2013-2014?

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

As you know, the overall review of education renewal is very complex and comprehensive. We want to reach out to every single individual out there that we possibly can in the Northwest Territories to hear them out. Our target date, of course, is late fall/early winter. That is the target date right now. We are working towards that and we want it completed by then.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Nadli.

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Earlier today I talked about mine training opportunities in small communities. My question is to the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment.

How would someone in Fort Providence currently, for example, access mine training for a job at Prairie Creek?

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Nadli. The honourable Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Lafferty.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Part of the process is, of course, through various training initiatives within the Mine Training Society. They have reached out to certain communities and I believe they will be going to the Deh Cho riding, as well, and Prairie Creek, possibly around the Fort Simpson area and surrounding communities. They have done so with the diamond mines and surrounding communities. I believe that is the normal process where they will be visiting

and meeting with the community of Fort Simpson, the largest community, then expanding out to regional communities to deliver those training programs. Opportunity will be there.

I would encourage those individuals who are interested in training to submit their application or resumes to the Mine Training Society, even to my department or the ITI department and we can forward that to the appropriate group, the standing committee that’s out there.

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

I know there’s been a lot of good work that the Mine Training Society has done, but why is mine training not offered in so many of our small communities where jobs are scarce and unemployment is high?

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

We’ve heard that when we were visiting the communities that were not impacted, there are some developments that are happening in preferably the Deh Cho riding that we have identified and we need to reach out to those communities. We are working closely with the federal government to expand the Mine Training Society into those areas. We talk about the Beaufort-Delta. How can we assist in those areas with any training that’s required? It’s been brought up in the House here. We are doing what we can to engage and also get support from the federal government on the long-term plan. That’s an ongoing discussion we are currently having. The Mine Training Society is up and running as we speak, and will be reaching out to Fort Simpson and the surrounding communities.

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

I’d like to thank the Minister for his response. It’s encouraging that the Minister has indicated that there is an engagement process, at least, with the communities. Will the Minister work with the communities of Fort Providence and the K’atlodeeche First Nation to establish local delivery of mine training within the near future?

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

The overall plan not only of the Mine Training Society but within my department, the Labour Market Development Agreement both from the federal government, we want to reach out to all communities as best as we can. Through the Mine Training Society, the Hay River Reserve and also Fort Providence, and also Kakisa and the surrounding communities, that we can definitely approach and work with the leadership and work with the educators in the communities, as well, also industries. Industries are all partners in this venue.

I will invite the Member to have a more detailed discussion on this particular area, and also with the communities, so I will definitely look forward to those visits to the communities.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Nadli.

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Biomass Initiative has been a major significant, positive development in my region, in the South Slave region, but also expanding further north. It’s been on the radar for some time. I wanted to know what level of preparedness has the department entered into in preparing communities that will be affected by a forest management agreement with potential for a plant to be situated somewhere in Hay River? What kind of training has the department, perhaps, forecast in terms of training needs at the community level for this major project?

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

When we talk about training in the communities, there are certain parties involved, whether it be ENR or ITI. There are interdepartmental committees working closely with the regional groups. There is a steering committee that is established to identify those needs, whether it be the biomass, and areas of training that are required by the Deh Cho region. Definitely, those are areas that we need to identify as part of whether it be a month, two months, however the length of training program that’s required, and then identify those individuals that are interested. It is the grassroots people that we need to work with, the regional representatives, and they’re the ones who will guide us on what’s needed in the region. We will continue to update the Member on the progress itself.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Nadli. The Member for Weledeh, Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions follow up my Member’s statement earlier today and are directed to the Minister of Finance.

The budget reallocations Regular Members insist upon are our priorities and when approved become the will of the House. So how does that shake out into action through the Executive once the budget has been passed?

When I was a public servant, I’d allocate the funds to projects, keep track of my costs, and plan my work to avoid being caught with money unspent and no work to show for my time. That should pretty much be how this government runs its spending on a macro level, so how does the Finance Minister and others responsible for the performance of deputy ministers keep an eye on budgets to ensure the assigned work is actually done?

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. The Minister of Finance, Mr. Miltenberger.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This consensus government is one of the most collaborative, inclusive governments in the country, with the exception of possibly Nunavut. We

collectively work together for six months to do business plans, draft the main estimates, bring a budget together that reflects the priorities of this collective Legislative Assembly, and then it is passed in this House. This is the Member’s sixth budget cycle, if my memory serves me correctly. Then the bill is assented to.

The departments all have the business plans. The Members all are aware of what’s in the main estimates. Then there is the business of government which now is to implement that budget, and it’s done through that business plan, through the strategic plans of the departments. Those priorities become the marching orders for the various departments. There are things that are done. There are variance reports that are done. Our managers manage. The Ministers oversee and are responsible for their departments. We meet with committees on review of various projects and initiatives, either at the request of government or at the request of the committee, to try to track all the work that’s being done. We have a fairly comprehensive program in terms of putting the wishes of this Assembly into practice.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

The Minister’s pretty good at putting the theory out there, but I didn’t hear an answer to my question. The government’s priorities are clear. Mineral strategy? We’ll get right on it. Fracking? Clear the decks. It’s clear what the Member’s priorities are too. Early childhood development? Talk to me in November. Renewable energy? We hope to get to it.

Can the Minister tell us, given that Members demand some modest dollars to be focused on their priorities and it becomes approved through the will of the House, how is it possible that a file lies dead for six months until November?

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

This document here that we’re debating in this House – this is the priorities of this Assembly, and these Members and this government – is $1.6 billion worth of priorities. We take our job very, very seriously. It is filled with dollars, over 60 cents of every dollar going into social programs. We are taking a very careful look at things that are very difficult, things like fracking. We have put together a business plan that reflects the times we live in. We have reflected the input of the Members. This is six months of work into this document.

The Member wants to know what we’re doing with renewable energy. We’re spending millions on renewable energy. We’re going to continue to do that. We are investing 60 cents of every dollar, over 320-some million dollars into Education, Culture and Employment’s budget.

The Member is talking about what happens when we do this budget process, after all this work is done and the Members decide, in addition to all the money that they’ve agreed to here, they want to put

more money in, often that puts us beyond what we’ve agreed to as targets. We’re having that discussion now. We’re engaged in that debate now.

Last year was the first year of this government. The budget was laid in the fiscal year. We acknowledged and pointed out that we would put this money into use but that we were clear that there were capacity issues of trying to get this money effectively into play. We follow the will of the House. We have the debate and we’re going to do that again this cycle.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

The Minister keeps holding up this document. I’m not talking about this document. I’m talking about the current year’s budget that we’ve fallen short on. This government has failed, and when the government fails to put the funds to work and those funds can’t be spent as intended, why does the government not come back to committee for input on reallocation? Termination of program development without consulting committee defies our principles of consensus government. This year we might have said move dollars back to Inclusive Schooling until we get a meaningful start on early childhood instead of last minute wasteful expenditures.

Will the Minister work with committee to audit the administration of this current year’s budget with respect to amendments to the budget made by the House in response to priorities raised by Regular Members? I’m talking about the ’12-13 budget.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

This document, I’d be happy to hold up from last year’s. It’s about as thick as this one. The same principle that I’m articulating here today applies to last year’s budget as well. There are audits done. If the Members have specific concerns that they don’t think we’ve met, then we’d be happy to come back and talk to committee. We review the main estimates. We review budgets. We are working with and at the behest of committees when they have issues they want to address.

The money the Member’s talking about is the several millions of dollars that were added late in the last budget. The vast majority of the $1.6 billion budget, a billion dollars last year and this year, will be spent as we have agreed to and has been directed by this House. If the committee will articulate the source of their aggravation, displeasure and concern, then we would be happy to have those discussions, absolutely.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thanks to the Minister for that reasonable response. It wasn’t quite a commitment to the audit, but he’s willing to discuss things with committee. I think committee will take him up on that.

Our record is bad. We need to make it right. Following the passage of this budget, will the Finance Minister work with his Cabinet colleagues early in the fiscal year – by the spring session would be reasonable – to establish priority spending work plans, set up milestones, and monitor and provide regular reports to Members on the implementation of the priority programs that we add through discussion of the budget? Mahsi.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, as Finance Minister I can tell you that I think, in fact, this budget, the last budget, every budget that I have been involved in in this House is a good budget. They tend to pass unanimously. We are doing an enormous amount of good work here. There is $1.6 million being put to work and the vast majority of it is spent on programs. It’s audited every year by the Auditor General. There are all sorts of other reviews done on an ongoing basis. We, of course, will continue to work with committee and the Members to make sure that we have the best budget possible dealing with constraints that we work under and the fact that we have a plan that we’ve agreed to for the four years and in the two years coming up, we’re going to be adding money to the budget. But, yes, it is a given in this type of government that we will continue to work closely with the Members and the committees to make sure we do the best job possible for all the people we represent. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. The honourable Member for Range Lake, Mr. Dolynny.

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The people have been very concerned in the aftermath of the Highway No. 3 accident. They are wanting answers to their questions. I think Members are wanting answers to those very same questions such as why was the air ambulance told to stand down when it was clearly the obvious choice and proper patient triage and extraction. Another question such as why are there gaps in our emergency ground ambulance and air ambulance protocols. Keeping in my continued theme of this accident and trying to get to the bottom of what happened and what are some of our gaps, my questions today will be for the Minister of Justice.

In relationship to this most recent highway accident, will the Minister of Justice formally report to this House the full RCMP investigation that resulted in two deaths and a significant delay in patient care for the remaining victim? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. The honourable Minister of Justice, Mr. Abernethy.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Minister of Justice

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The RCMP is investigating the accident and will determine a cause. If necessary, charges may or may not be laid. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Mr. Speaker, we have some of that recorded here. Will the Minister of Justice formally commit to a report of all communications to and from the RCMP, when the RCMP incident command officer called for medical help, and all communications involving this accident? Thank you.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Minister of Justice

Mr. Speaker, the RCMP will conduct their investigation and what can be made public will be made public. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Mr. Speaker, again, we are waiting for this RCMP incident report. I just want to make sure that that report will be shared with everyone here in the House. It appears that the Minister of Justice is willing to accommodate or at least, by his response, to a certain degree to these questions.

Will the Minister commit to a third-party audit of the event’s scene, the security of the site, the first aid responders, the responses by all respected agencies and all comments from bystanders? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Minister of Justice

Mr. Speaker, the RCMP are professionals. They have professionals who took care and control of the scene. As I have indicated, they are doing an investigation and the aspects of that investigation that can be shared will be shared. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Dolynny.

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Mr. Speaker, can the Minister indicate to this House when we may be able to see this RCMP investigation? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Minister of Justice

Mr. Speaker, as I have indicated, the RCMP is doing a thorough investigation into this incident. Once they have completed that investigation, after they have gathered all of the evidence and they’ve done all the analysis that needs to be done, what can be shared will be shared. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In 2010 Ruskin picked up the defunct contract on the Deh Cho Bridge and took the price from $167 million to $182 million. In less than a year we needed an additional $10 million that pushed the contract to

$192 million. In the spring of 2012, the McLeod government went even further by demanding $10 million that brought the project up to $202 million.

The question is to the Minister of Transportation. What value and services did the taxpayer of the Northwest Territories receive over and above the original 2010 signed contract with the GNWT and Ruskin? In essence, did we get anything more than a bumper sticker that said open 2012 instead of 2013? Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The honourable Minister of Transportation, Mr. Ramsay.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Minister of Transportation

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The public in the Northwest Territories, the transportation companies, everybody has access to the Deh Cho Bridge. It has been open since November 30th . That is a great benefit to the

residents here in the Northwest Territories. We got the bridge open on November 30th of 2012. Had we

chosen a different path as the Member suggests, we would still be in court, the bridge wouldn’t be open and we’d still be asking ourselves many questions. Thank you.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Speaker, what were the costs and savings realized when this government drove the contract from $192 million to $202 million? Thank you.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Minister of Transportation

Mr. Speaker, that horse left the barn about six years ago. There have been a number of questions that have been asked over the years. I don’t believe it does us much good to be beating a dead horse. The bridge is open. If the Member wants specifics on what exactly that $10 million was used for, that money was used to get the contract complete by November 30th so that the

bridge could be put into service and that’s exactly what we did. The government was intent on getting that bridge put into service on November 30th .

There was a cost to do that. That is what we did, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Speaker, in the Minister’s mind, that horse may have been gone six years ago, but I can tell you it’s before the taxpayer for the next 35 years, if not longer.

Why didn’t the Minister of Transportation mention that we saved approximately $2.4 million on the operation and maintenance of the ferry and the ice road services? If I have to answer my own questions in this House, I’m going to ask the Minister what was left over with the $7.6 million needed to open up the bridge a year earlier. What were the benefits of opening it up a year earlier other than spending $7.6 million uselessly? Thank you.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Minister of Transportation

Mr. Speaker, it would have been a year worth of tolls on the bridge. It would have been a year’s worth of interest paid on that money which would have well exceeded the

$7.6 million the Member talks about. That bridge is open. Again, it’s serving the public of the Northwest Territories doing what it was supposed to do and intended to do. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Paying the interest on the loan is actually a bit of a misnomer. We would have had to pay that fee anyway. Where did the money really go and what benefit did the territorial citizens receive? The Minister is correct about the tolls being a wash when it comes to the money, but the tolls themselves wouldn’t have added up to $7.6 million of slush money to open up this particular bridge.

Where are the facts of where the money went to and what was the received benefit by opening it up a year early? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Minister of Transportation

Mr. Speaker, the benefits are that we’re not waiting, there is access to the North Slave region 24 hours a day, seven days a week. There is convenience. It’s good for transportation companies. It will be great for university students coming back from university in May. They won’t have to face leaving their vehicles in Hay River and fly to Yellowknife and then fly back to Hay River to pick up their vehicles.

It went into the contract. There were extra costs associated with accelerating the contract in order to get the bridge open by November 30th , and if the

Member wants to find exactly where that $7.6 million went, we’d be happy to share that information with him. I believe we have shared that information with him and committee at a previous meeting. I’d be more than happy to pick up that presentation that was provided to his committee.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, Mr. Moses.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m just going to continue on the same theme here with the Mental Health Act. I have questions here today for the Minister of Justice.

I’d like to ask the Minister of Justice what is the number of psychiatrists and psychologists that we have in our current corrections facilities right now. How many psychiatrists and psychologists are there in the facilities?

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Moses. The honourable Minister of Justice, Mr. Abernethy.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Minister of Justice

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Currently, corrections has psychologists at the North Slave Correctional Centre as well as

the South Mackenzie Correctional Centre who provide mental health services to our inmates. The North Slave Correctional Centre psychologist is currently on maternity leave and is being covered by a contracted psychologist. We don’t have any psychiatrists within our facilities, but psychiatrists are available at Stanton Regional Hospital and corrections has links to those services through referrals, just like any other NWT resident.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

It’s good to hear that they do have the services at our corrections facilities. My next question is, in terms of Justice, do peace officers in the Northwest Territories have a good understanding and education of the Mental Health Act, and also understand what their duties are, and under the Mental Health Act and legislation what they’re entitled to do should they encounter somebody with a mental health disorder? Is there a program that ensures they are educated on the Mental Health Act when they do come to the Northwest Territories?

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Minister of Justice

RCMP are familiar with their role under the Mental Health Act. It’s actually part of their training. On specifics, the types of training that they go through and how we ensure that they have that, I’ll get more information for the Member and committee on that. I did fail to indicate one psychologist position that we have at the North Slave Young Offenders Facility. We have a staff counsellor position or individual there who is in the process of obtaining her licence as a psychologist, under supervision of a licenced psychiatrist at Stanton. So we’re working on one more.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. Item 8, written questions. Mr. Moses.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions are for the Minister of Health and Social Services.

1. (a) Under Section 6(a) and (b) of the NWT

Mental Health Act, how many voluntary patients have there been throughout the Northwest Territories hospitals and health centres from the 2009-2010 fiscal year to the present?

(b) Of those voluntary patients, how many were admitted into the hospital and how many were denied admittance during the same time period?

(c) Of those voluntary patients denied admittance, how many were reasoned due to lack of beds and/or space during the same time period?

2. (a) Under Section 8(1), what are the specific

numbers in which a medical practitioner has had

to make an order for detention for a psychiatric assessment from the 2009-2010 fiscal year to the present?

(b) Under Section 8(3), how many reports has the Minister’s office received since the 2009-2010 fiscal year to the present?

3. (a) Under Section 15(1), what are the specific

numbers in which a medical practitioner had to apply to admit an involuntary patient from the 2009-2010 fiscal year to present?

(b) Under Section 16(1) and (2), how many applications has the Minister examined, and how many applications were approved, and how many were refused during the same time period?

(c) Under Section 17, how many times has the Minister had to approve an extension of time for applications from the –

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Mr. Moses, I have just been informed that when you have written questions, you’re only allowed four supps and I think you’re about eight now. If you want to do a second one, you can, but as of right now you’re allowed only four.

---Ruled Out of Order

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. New written questions to the Minister of Health and Social Services:

1. Under Section 17 of the Mental Health Act, from

fiscal year 2009-2010 to the present, how many times has the Minister approved an extension of time for involuntary patient period of detection applications?

2. Under Section 18 of the Mental Health Act, from

fiscal year 2009-2010 to the present, how many certificates of involuntary admission have been completed in NWT hospitals and health centres?

3. Under Section 18.1(1), from fiscal year 2009-

2010 to the present, how many patients have had to be transferred outside of the NWT?

4. Under Section 19.2(1), from fiscal year 2009-

2010 to the present, how many times has substitute consent been given on behalf of a voluntary or involuntary patient under Sections 19.2(1)(a), (c), (d), (e), (f) and (g)?

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Moses. Ms. Bisaro.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment.

For fiscal year 2012-2013, the Department of Education, Culture and Employment re-profiled $1 million from the Inclusive Schooling budget to Early Childhood Development initiatives.

Immediately following year end for fiscal year 2012-2013 March 31, 2013, I ask that the Minister provide a list of actual expenditures for that same $1 million.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Item 9, returns to written questions. Mr. Clerk.

Tim Mercer Clerk Of The House

Mr. Speaker, I have a Return to Written Question 4-17(4) asked by Mr. Dolynny on February 11, 2013, to the Honourable Tom Beaulieu, Minister of Health and Social Services, regarding NWT health care cards.

According to the Bureau of Statistics, the estimated population of the Northwest Territories at December 31, 2012, was 43,349. The number of active NWT health care cards as of February 25, 3013, is 42,239.

The Department of Health and Social Services incorporates two types of health care audits:

1. a health care card renewal that happens every

three years; and

2. periodic review of client files throughout the

year.

A health care card renewal is currently underway for the 2013 calendar year. As a part of this renewal, approximately 38,000 residents will be required to complete and submit a NWT health care card renewal form. If clients send in their renewal form more than four months after their health care coverage expires, they are required to provide proof of residency in the form of one of the following:

• rent receipts, lease agreement or letter from a

private landlord, or confirmation from a financial institution that the resident has a mortgage for local residential property;

• utility, power, oil, property tax and/or phone bills;

or

• confirmation from Canada Revenue Agency that

the resident filed a NWT income tax return.

Periodic reviews also ask clients to provide confirmation that they are residents of the NWT. These reviews are usually a result of a client receiving continuous medical services outside the NWT.

The department completed 124 health care card periodic reviews in 2012 and is currently gathering the information on the results of these audits. We will keep the Members up to date on our findings.

Tim Mercer Clerk Of The House

I have a Return to Written Question 5-17(4) asked by Mr. Yakeleya on February 11, 2013, to the Honourable Tom Beaulieu, Minister of Health and Social Services, regarding alcohol-related health conditions.

The actual costs to the Department of Health and Social Services of alcohol-related health conditions cannot be determined with a sufficient degree of certainty. While some health conditions can be linked to alcohol-related causes, those same health conditions may be due to other non-alcohol-related causes. Therefore, every individual case must be assessed to determine whether alcohol was a factor or not. However, there is no practical or feasible way of doing this. Similarly, alcohol-related conditions are not reportable under the Disease Registries Act, and as a result there is no mechanism for consistently collecting this type of information.

In spite of this, the department recognizes that the costs of alcohol-related health conditions are significant in the Northwest Territories. Alcohol misuse and abuse are considered to be major cost-drivers within the health system. With respect to hospitalizations, the average annual cost for those hospitalized with either a primary or secondary diagnosis of alcohol misuse is approximately $6.5 million.

Much like measuring the costs of alcohol-related health conditions, there is no universally accepted measure of success in alcohol treatment rehabilitation programs. In some programs, success is measured by sobriety. However, there is little agreement on how long a person needs to be sober to be counted as a success. In other programs, harm reduction through a reduced level of alcohol consumption is considered a success.

One of the more common ways of measuring treatment program success includes tracking the proportion of participants who complete the program. However, it should be noted that for programs that record only the number of participants who complete the program there is no follow-up with the participants. This is done in order to ensure that participation in the program is strictly private and confidential.

No personal information about the individuals participating in treatment is kept and, therefore, follow-up contact is not possible. While the department does not formally track the proportion of participants who complete treatment programs, Nats’ejee K’eh Treatment Centres does occasionally provide the department with participant completion rates. From April 1, 2012, to October 31, 2012, there were a total of 99 clients who had entered treatment, with 83 completing the program.

Ultimately, success is best measured by the individual who attended treatment. For some, staying sober through the 20-day program is a success. For others, remaining sober for weeks or months after treatment is a success. For still others, consuming less alcohol following treatment is success. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Tim Mercer Clerk Of The House

I have a Return to Written Question 6-17(4) asked by Mr. Yakeleya on February 11, 2013, to the Honourable David Ramsay, Minister of Transportation, regarding Mackenzie Valley winter roads.

Later today, at the appropriate time, I will table the document entitled Mackenzie Valley Winter Roads. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Clerk. Item 10, replies to opening address. Item 11, petitions. Item 12, reports of standing and special committees. Item 13, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 14, tabling of documents. Mr. Robert McLeod.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to table the following document, entitled Government of the Northwest Territories Response to Motion 19-17(3), Child Tax Benefit Clawback.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Mr. Ramsay.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Further to my Return to Written Question 6-17(4), I wish to table the following document, entitled Mackenzie Valley Winter Road.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Item 15, notices of motion. Item 16, notices of motion for first reading of bills. Item 17, motions. Item 18, first reading of bills. The honourable Minister responsible for Environment and Natural Resources, Mr. Miltenberger.

Bill 3: Wildlife Act
First Reading of Bills

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Monfwi, that Bill 3, Wildlife Act, be read for the first time.

Bill 3: Wildlife Act
First Reading of Bills

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Bill 3, Wildlife Act, has had first reading.

---Carried

Bill 3: Wildlife Act
First Reading of Bills

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Item 19, second reading of bills. Item 20, consideration in Committee of the Whole of bills and other matters: Table Document 9-17(4), NWT Main Estimates, 2013-2014; and Bill 1, Tlicho Statutes Amendment Act; Education, Culture and Employment, Transportation, with Ms. Bisaro in the chair.

By the authority given to me as Speaker, by Motion 1-17(4), I hereby authorize the House to sit beyond the daily hour of adjournment to consider the business before the House.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Wendy Bisaro

All right. We’ll call Committee of the Whole to order. We have before us Tabled Document 9-17(4), NWT Main Estimates, 2013-2014; and Bill 1, Tlicho Statutes Amendment Act. What is the wish of committee? Mr. Dolynny.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. Committee has decided we’ll continue on with Tabled Document 9-17(4), NWT Main Estimates, 2013-2014, with our continuance of Education.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Wendy Bisaro

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Is committee agreed?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Wendy Bisaro

Thank you, committee. We’ll take a short break.

---SHORT RECESS

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Committee, I’d like to call Committee of the Whole back to order. We’re just going to get clarification here. Ms. Bisaro.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would just like to confirm that committee would like to consider the tabled document before us, Department of

Education and Transportation, as well, if we get that far. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Okay. Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Does committee agree?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

We’ll just add that to today’s list of agenda items. Minister Lafferty, do you have witnesses you’d like to bring into the Chamber?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Yes, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Does committee agree?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Great. If I can get the Sergeant-at-Arms to please escort the witnesses into the House, please. Thank you.

Mr. Lafferty, would you like to introduce your witnesses to the House, please.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. I have with me, to my left is Gabriela Eggenhofer, deputy minister, Education, Culture and Employment, and Mr. Paul Devitt to my right. He is the director of strategic business services with the Department of Education, Culture and Employment. Mahsi.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Lafferty. Mr. Devitt, Ms. Eggenhofer, welcome back to the House.

Committee, we are page 10-13, Education, Culture and Employment, activity summary, directorate and administration, operations expenditure summary, $10.521 million. I have Ms. Bisaro.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have a number of questions in this section. I’d like to start with culture and heritage. I spoke last week about a request from a number of heritage groups in the NWT to the Minister to provide a bit more of a focus on heritage. The Minister, I think, sort of suggested that we do stuff for culture, and I’m not saying that we don’t. Or for heritage, I should say. There is a portion under this section of Education… Oh, sorry. We’re not on that page yet, are we? We’re on page 13. Right, Mr. Chair?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Okay. Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Yes, we’ll address that when we get to the appropriate page. Moving on this page for questions, I have Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

No questions.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Moving on this page, I have Mr. Hawkins.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

I have questions on page 13. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’m going to ask about the leadership structure of Aurora College and how they’re tied into the Department of ECE. The reason I’m asking that is because last week I had

asked questions about the capital planning for an Aurora College and how that process begins. To be clear and to make sure no one is fooled by my question, I’m not asking for the capital project this coming budget because we’re in an operations budget, so, as such, the planning is an operational issue.

Maybe if the Minister can enlighten us as to how the role of the Board of Governors and the president of the college plug into the administrative level of the Department of Education, Culture and Employment. Is the college in charge of the college? Is some director somewhere within the department in charge of the college? Because I want to get a sense of how we plan for a college. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Minister Lafferty.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. Through the reporting mechanism, the president works closely with my deputy minister and also assistant deputy ministers pertaining to operations within the college. We provide funding on an annual basis and they provide a report at the end of the year. Then there is also a reporting mechanism within the college through board chairs and myself, as the Minister responsible. At the same time, we are going through a review of the reporting structure and accountability framework between the college and also working closely with my Department of Education, Culture and Employment. That is before us. It should be concluding real soon and we will be sharing that with the standing committee.

If I may, just to elaborate even further on detail of the reporting structure, I will ask my deputy.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Lafferty. Ms. Eggenhofer.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Eggenhofer

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The review, as the Minister stated, will clarify the roles and responsibilities in terms of what’s set out in the legislation and what’s actually happening on the ground. We should have that by the end of March, with some recommendations on how we can improve, certainly around roles and responsibilities. But I can say that I’m in close contact with the president of the college and we have a good working relationship between the department and the college.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Eggenhofer. Mr. Hawkins.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

As it stands today, is the president of the college treated as an associate deputy minister when they report to the Department of Education, Culture and Employment? Are they treated as a director? Are they treated as an assistant deputy minister? Can you help define the role, because I want to get to the planning question,

and I want to make sure that if it’s clear on the record who is in charge of the president. Or are they on a shoulder-to-shoulder support role with the deputy minister in a similar manner and they report up through the Minister? I guess, in essence, who’s in charge of the president, setting aside the board governance factor, Mr. Chairman? But who’s in charge and who can apply direction and lack thereof, wording, orders for direction to the president?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Lafferty.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

The reporting and also appointing is laid out in the legislation. The president reports to the board, the Board of Governors for Aurora College. Also, I have working relations through various areas with the president. If there are things that need to be addressed or issues or concerns or ideas, then we would meet. The same with the college chair. I would have frequent contact with the chair as the need arises. But the reporting mechanism comes down to the president to the Board of Governors of Aurora College.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

My question seems to continue to elude the department. I’ve asked to set aside the board governance, but when the board governance model, which we haven’t got to yet, is an issue to discuss, but when that message of the college… Maybe I’ll wrap it up this way, because it seems to cause a problem. When the message of the college comes forward, who trumps the message of the college at the department? Does the college itself report to a director somewhere within the system? Does the message of the college report to an associate deputy minister, an assistant deputy minister? Are they treated like maybe one of those, even the deputy minister? I’m not sure why this question is so challenging. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mr. Chair, I already spoke to the reporting mechanism, the college Board of Governors. We are talking about the Board of Governors for the college. The reporting mechanism is through the board chair, the board council, on to the president and on to my department. My senior staff would deal with that directly. She is also considered a manager in the position that she’s at. She would deal directly with my deputy or, in absence of the deputy, the assistant deputy minister. Those are the structures that we currently have. Again, reiterating that we are assessing those key areas. We are going through some interview processes with the college, the Board of Governors with my department, and then that information will be available on the board structure and reporting mechanism, the overall framework will be available to the Members and we will be presenting that to them within a few weeks. Mahsi.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Chair, I would say this: If Aurora College said they would like to build a new college, does someone within the Department of ECE have that authority to say no, or does someone have the authority to say yes, and who is that authority? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mr. Chair, if the decision came down from the Board of Governors through their chair, through their president, it will go to my department, deputy minister or ADM, assistant deputy minister, and will be brought to my attention, and in due course we have to go through the process to identify funds, capital.

We are talking about capital infrastructure here. If there is a plan in place, then by all means, my department will work very closely with the college to identify the needs. There is a process that we follow. It is a process of this Legislative Assembly as well. That’s what we follow. Mahsi.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

If a message was sent from the Board of Governors to the chair, to the president to be carried to the Department of ECE, would ECE have the ability to say no if the college, through the Board of Governors, through the chair, through the president said that they wanted to build a stand-alone college? Would they have the authority to say no? Who would that particular person be to say no? Who would be saying no if the answer happened to be no? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Mr. Hawkins, we are painting a scenario, but I will ask the Minister to reply. Minister Lafferty.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

We are not filtering the process through the college to me as Minister responsible. If there is a request, I usually get a heads-up from the college, the board chair. We would have these communications. Our staff would work on a plan from there. We have constant contacts between my department, my role as the Minister responsible for the college, and the board chair.

The board chair was just reappointed, so we have a positive working relationship. We are going to continue that. Anything that’s addressed by the Board of Governors is addressed with me as well. I make the decision, so it’s not my department that makes the decision. I make the decision. I’m the one that stands up in the House. I’m the one responsible for the college. Mahsi.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Chair, we still haven’t had clarity on the role of capital planning. Capital planning falls under…(inaudible)... Who does the college, whether it’s the chair, the Board of Governors or the president, whoever is sent with cap in hand to say that the college itself would like to proceed on a particular mechanism, who do they actually report to at the department? Who has the say yea or nay on a particular project? If the college

wants to proceed on a particular project, they must be held accountable at the department level to that question.

It still is not clear who they actually report to. I have heard various answers earlier that the president is a manager. I have heard various filterings of how the deputy minister, the associate deputy minister, but there is no clear line of who they bring that message to and the fact is it’s all a feeder system. Is this message filtered by someone within the department? Who has the authorization to say yes or no when the Board of Governors, through the chair, sends the message through the president to the department on a particular programming request? Who gets to say yes or no on those types of things? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mr. Chair, I’m not sure how clear I can be. I’m the one who is responsible. I’m the one who is responsible to put initiatives into the capital planning process based on the advice I’m getting from whether it be the college or my staff and we move forward from there. The reporting mechanism from the board chair, the president on to my deputy, as you know, we have all of these different divisions, as well, within our shop. Mr. Devitt here is also responsible for a piece of that. Even though there are two or three lines from the president to my deputy, it connects through all the departmental within our shop as well. At the end of the day, I make the final decision. Mahsi.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Lafferty. Mr. Hawkins, your time is up. I don’t have anyone on the sheet. Would you like to continue the questions?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Now I’m hearing there are two or three lines they’re reporting to and I’m trying to get to the bottom of this, that if the college wants to put forward a particular initiative, who do they forward it to in the department? Does that person or persons… We need a clear role because somebody would be in charge of that.

The Minister has been in charge of this department for six years. I have been asking about an Aurora College plan for years. Is someone at the department stopping this? I’m not sure what the heck he’s doing over there. I want to be clear on the record. Who is in charge of the reporting of this particular, if there was a particular request, and who slows it down? I’m sorry to waste his time, but I’m sick and tired of this goddamn question.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Mr. Hawkins, I would suggest you use proper parliamentary language in your continued ask of questions. I further ask, Mr. Hawkins, that the Minister has responded to your series of questions. You are providing a lot of hypothetical scenarios of a following or chasing of questions that don’t exist. I would ask if you can

keep those two items in mind with your question to follow. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Chair, I appreciate your guidance, but this is not hypothetical, because we need to know the process as to what the request would be. It is not hypothetical and the Minister is unable to answer this. If the college was to carry out requests, how can I get to a capital request program in question if we don’t know where the question is going to in the department? That’s part of the question that seems to continually be avoided. I am hearing he is in charge. He gets the say yes or no, then he says the deputy minister, then he says the assistant deputy minister. We need to find out where that line goes to, because when I ask a question about the planning process for the department of Aurora College, who is making these types of decisions? I illustrate an example to help us understand why I keep trying to ask this question. There is nothing happening on this. We need to know how this works.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Before we ask the Minister to respond to that question, I would ask that you withdraw your earlier comment, please. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Sure, for the sake of moving forward, I will withdraw that.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mr. Chair, this decision process falls under me through various venues from the board chair, the president, my deputy, associates, and those individuals are involved with the capital planning process. At the end of the day, it goes back to me as advice coming from all angles. The decision is made by me as Minister responsible for the college. The capital infrastructure, there is a process in play. That same process we follow on a constant basis every year. We do follow that and we’re talking about a 60, 80, 90 million dollar building and we have to think creatively how we can pursue that. As you know, through our budget planning process, we’re talking about capital, which is not before us, but that’s the planning stage we’re at right now, we’re working with the college, we’re working with various potential investors as well.

So again, at the end of the day, it falls under me, the decision is made by me and maybe I’ll just get my deputy to elaborate a bit. I’m not sure how different she can approach it, but she can explain the reporting mechanism to the president. Mahsi.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Lafferty. Ms. Eggenhofer.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Eggenhofer

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think the department’s interfacing with the college happens on many levels. It depends on the subject at hand. For example, when the college wants to put on programs, there’s a number of people within the department that would assist the college in

determining programming that we would share research and analysis, and that happens at various levels. When it comes to capital projects, the department would offer advice on the process, on the steps that ought to be taken, but the department at an administrative level would not in any way impede access of the board, or the college board to the Minister to provide unfettered advice and make a pitch for a capital project. The Minister would ask our advice, which we would offer, but we wouldn’t be an impediment in providing the access to the Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Eggenhofer. Mr. Hawkins.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That was very helpful. If the college was to come forward in this particular budget cycle under capital planning, how much money would be allocated to that particular initiative if they wanted to plan for a college, an independent college in Yellowknife? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Mr. Hawkins, that’s a capital planning question. Would you like to rephrase your question, please.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Chairman, I’m not talking about capital, I’m talking about the plan. So if the college wanted to come forward with this type of initiative that it all starts with the booklet, the study, the review, the programming and that’s the capital planning. It says right here in the third paragraph, business and capital planning for the department, and that’s what I keep referring to. I’m not sure why this seems to keep… No one is talking about a $40 million to $50 million, even $60 million infrastructure when we can’t even talk about the plan. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you for clarifying, Mr. Hawkins. Minister Lafferty.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. With any planning process for infrastructure, we have to work with the college to identify the funds that may be available to them. Then we need to work out the logistics of it. I will get my director to elaborate on the process itself. Mahsi.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Lafferty. Mr. Devitt.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Paul Devitt

Mr. Chair, the initial planning is funded by the department to do the needs assessment. We’ve also worked very closely with the college to assess their spatial needs and develop guidelines working very closely with the college. Once we’ve identified what the needs are, then it does go through the government capital planning process and the first stage is the approval of a planning study, which would determine the scope of the project and take it through to schematic design. But that’s part of the government’s capital planning process. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Devitt. Mr. Hawkins.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. How much money is being dedicated under this fiscal year and the last two fiscal years towards a needs assessment for the Aurora College to be expanded into an independent campus? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. For that we’ll go to Minister Lafferty.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. I would have to get my director to elaborate. He’s been involved in the process since we’ve been discussing the college for several years now. So I’ll get Mr. Devitt to elaborate.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Lafferty. Mr. Devitt.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Paul Devitt

We don’t have a specific budget for that, but department staff work very closely with Public Works and Services, which provides technical information and planning support. We work with our clients, including the college, to identify the needs and each year we update them. We’re now going through that process and we will take that information into the government’s capital planning process. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Devitt. Mr. Hawkins.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Is any budget being considered for this fiscal year on a needs assessment for Aurora College? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Minister Lafferty.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. I believe Mr. Devitt answered that. It’s not in the business planning cycle at this point. Mahsi.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Over the last six years I’ve heard the Minister say there’s planning, discussions, planning and discussions, and more planning and discussions on the Aurora College. So what type of planning money has been committed that I’ve heard over the last six years? I’m trying to get a sense here, I asked for the last two fiscal years as well. So we hear the same answer over and over again, but now I’m hearing zero money. So I’m left to conclude that there’s some anomaly in his answers as he keeps giving them to the House about how much money he’s talked about planning for all these years. So the anomaly is us, the one he’s created. So how much money has gone into the planning of an independent Aurora campus and where does it show up? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi. Like every year, we go through these assessments with any infrastructure that’s available that’s before us. That’s how we invest our funding, working closely with the college, or if it is the schools then we have to work closely with the schools. If we need to hire

a consultant to do that, engaging community members, then we expand in those areas. We don’t have the actual numbers before us, but over the years assessment does cost money and that’s what we do on an annual basis when the opportunity for infrastructure is before us. So those are areas that we have worked closely with the college and, as you know, we extended their lease agreement as well. So we are getting to the point where Public Works is working closely with them to identify options for how we can move forward on this because three years will be before us in due time. Now we’re on to a year already. So we need to re-evaluate those areas. Mahsi.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Lafferty. Mr. Hawkins, your time is up. Do you have any more questions? I have no one else on this page. However, Mr. Hawkins, if you’re going to continue I’d ask that if you have anything new to offer on this subject given the fact that we’ve had two cycles of questioning today, we had one cycle of questioning the previous Committee of the Whole day, so unless you have something very new to offer, please rephrase your questions to something new. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thanks, Mr. Chairman. The Minister just made note of documents. I’d like if maybe he could elaborate for the House which documents he’s referring to. That’s certainly a new question. What dollar amounts are associated with those documents? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi. That information that Mr. Devitt referred to was a needs assessment. Those are some of the areas that are part of the process when we talk about the capital planning process. If I may, again, Mr. Devitt can elaborate on the process itself. Mahsi.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Lafferty. Mr. Devitt.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Paul Devitt

Two of some of the documents we prepared, one of them is the 10-year education plan for Yellowknife, which looks at the all the educational facilities, including the college. We’ve also worked with the college to develop guidelines, which we use to determine the needs of different campuses. So those are two of the documents. Then each year we go through a process of looking at technical and planning information and identifying or updating the needs of the college and the education authorities.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Devitt. Mr. Hawkins.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Are there any technical or planning documents on the needs assessments of the college that are being anticipated for this fiscal year that are specific to the college itself? Furthermore, what has the

department developed, and how much money have they spent in the past two fiscal years to that end?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Paul Devitt

A lot of the work has been, or most of the work has been, done by government staff both in the department and Public Works. I believe at one point the guidelines were part of the work was contracted out, but I need to confirm that.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Back to the technical plans and needs assessments specific to the college over the last, including this, year for the plan going forward as well as the past two fiscal years. What is the department able to share as to the work developed and foreseen for the planning portion of the capital planning of the Aurora College?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Lafferty.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. We’ll share what information we can possibly share. We need to engage the college as well. Some of the information may not be satisfied for us to share with the public, but we’ll have to engage them. There is a lot of information being shared between the two departments. With that we can go back to the standing committee and share some information that could be made available.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Mr. Hawkins.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

I’m not on the standing committee, so I will go to the Minister for his thoughts on that regard.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

We can share it with the Members.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

What planning position of development, technical information, planning documents, or needs assessment has the Aurora College provided to the department on their own initiative?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

This is an area that we obviously don’t have the information detail before us. We’re leaning towards the capital planning. We are again working close with the college, the Board of Governors, to identify the needs, the needs assessment. We will provide that information to the Members once we engage the college. We will provide that information in due time. Unless my director has some detailed information which I may not have in front of me, I will allow Mr. Devitt.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Mr. Devitt.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Paul Devitt

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The 10-year education facility plan for Yellowknife is on the department website. That is available to the public.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Devitt. Mr. Hawkins.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The question was, what did Aurora College put forward as a capital planning initiative to the department on their own initiative? Now, we’ve heard the Minister and certainly Mr. Devitt talk about the technical planning the department does through its needs assessment. What initiative for the planning process has been put forward by the college so that we know where it goes into the system so that could be rolled forward? What was the college’s initiative?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Lafferty.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. We did over time receive correspondence from the college. Just recently we received one that showed an expression of interest on the campus itself. That is an area that we are currently exploring within our department. We will be going through the capital planning process, and it will be addressed at that level too.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Speaking in general to capital planning, that is, what type of correspondence has the Minister received? If you could speak to the general nature thereof as to the intent of what the request was or move forward to the initiative. The nature of the general request needs to be built into the capital planning process, so if the Minister can speak to the nature and how often this request has come forward.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Again, as indicated, we just received the letter from the college that is showing expression of interest. That’s all it lays out. Now our department and the college need to sit down and discuss that, the interest, and where we’re going to go with that. Although we speak in general terms, we are talking about capital planning process. We will get there when the time comes. Now we are going to have my department meet with the college.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Maybe the Minister could elaborate what expression of interest means.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

There is an interest to have a facility in Yellowknife. That has been brought up on numerous occasions in this House, and we are working towards that.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Okay, so that we’re clear on the record, the Minister has a letter of correspondence from the college expressing an interest on developing an independent campus in Yellowknife. Is that correct?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

The letter expresses an interest in a college campus. That’s as far as it went. Like I said, we need to get into more detail, which wasn’t provided.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Is this the only request of this type of nature – and I’m trying to speak in general terms,

that is – that the department has received? Or have they received other requests of a similar nature in the past couple of years?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

There have been other private sectors, as well, just showing an interest in how they can get involved, providing some options. Just preliminary discussions with potential industries or private sectors, I should say. It is the college that has been showing interest, as well, so we will be meeting with them. I’m sure they have been meeting with various private sectors as well. That detailed information will be brought to our attention.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

I go back to my last question: Is this the first time they’ve received some type of expression of interest on this particular topic about expanding the college? Find whatever wording that makes someone feel comfortable, whether it’s independent campus or stand-alone or whatever the phrase may be, but is this the first time or, as I said, has there been other expressions of interest in the last few years since this Minister has been Minister of the department?

I’m not referring to private sectors who’ve expressed interest. I’m talking about the campus itself or the college itself. Has there been any other requests of this general nature, and, if so, what and when?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Mr. Hawkins, I believe that question was already asked and already answered. Do you have another question?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I respectfully say that he started going on to private sector requests. He didn’t answer that. The only time he said he got a letter was from the college recently that’s an expression of interest. That’s when I asked what does that mean. Then I asked him about, is this the only time this type of request went in. The record will state that he started talking about private sector requests being involved. He didn’t answer the question, which had to do with, has Aurora College sent letters in the past in the last few years to that. I would say that I didn’t get a clear answer on the record.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins, for clarifying. We’ll go to Mr. Lafferty.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. When we’re talking about capital planning projects, which we are, the planning process itself, we reach out to the college. We reach out to the school boards and identify what their needs are. In general terms, yes, we are getting feedback from them.

What I’m referring to was just recent because they know the capital planning project is coming up. In usual terms they show interest. So they showed interest in writing to us, and now we’re going to meet with them to discuss the capital planning

project that will be before us with the college campus, stand-alone, and it has been a debate in this House and a lot of interest around Yellowknife citizens. These kinds of requests do come up, and we deal with them on a case-by-case basis.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Mr. Hawkins, your time has expired. Page 10-13, Education, Culture and Employment, activity summary, directorate and administration, operations expenditure summary, $10.521 million.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Page 10-14, Education, Culture and Employment, information item, directorate and administration, active positions.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Page 10-16 and 10-17, Education, Culture and Employment, activity summary, education and culture, activity description. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to start with the early childhood development aspects here. First of all, I note that early childhood and school services division is the title. Could I first learn, is early childhood development programs within that division, or does the early childhood just refer to preschool programs aspect?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Mr. Lafferty.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. The early childhood development, as it states here, there are certain programs under that. But I will have to get my deputy to elaborate more because there is detailed information respecting whether it be the division and the budget cycle itself. I have to get my director to explain or elaborate a little bit more.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Mr. Devitt.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Paul Devitt

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Early Childhood Development Program and instructional support services are under early childhood education division…sorry, early childhood and school services division. It’s in the organizational chart on page – I don’t know if I can refer to another page – but 10-3.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Devitt. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you for that information, Mr. Chairman, and Mr. Devitt. My concern is, early childhood development is quite different than education. There is an obvious need for some integration at the later stages with the education. But it is so important, as the Minister knows, to, I would say, just about all of our broad government goals that it needs to stand in an autonomous way.

Is there a plan to take this early childhood development aspect out of the school services division, which there is a record of completely overwhelming the early childhood development aspects, and developing their own, sort of, organizational infrastructure or early childhood development?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Lafferty.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

I believe this was brought to my attention. That’s part of the reason why we’re doing this education renewal. There are six pillars and part of the one pillar is to deal with the systems. I understand where the Member’s coming from. That’s an area that will be discussed through stakeholders and other educators, and providing that input, and if we need to make those changes then I have to work with my Premier and so forth, my colleagues, to make that a reality. That will be part of the discussion.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

That’s all I was looking for, that we are looking into that seriously, so thank you for that.

Early Childhood Development Program, I see, is $7.7 million. Could we get a brief outline of how those dollars will be allocated and, if it’s possible, a comparison to the current fiscal year? That’s the $7.719 million under program delivery details and there were categories such as family centres and Aurora College training programs and so on that were used in the current fiscal year.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

The $7.7 million that the Member is referring to, the breakdown, if I can have my director to give a detailed breakdown, if he has it before him. If not, we would have to provide that information. I don’t really see it in front of me, but we’re just going through, if you can give us a minute. Mr. Devitt has more detailed information as he just found the paper.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Lafferty. Mr. Devitt.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Paul Devitt

Mr. Chair, I don’t have all of the details in front of me but in terms of some of the larger amounts, the Early Childhood Program contributions are on the following pages is just under $4 million, and there’s another $2.1 million for the Healthy Children Initiative. We also have approximately $346,000 in other O and M in the program and the remaining amount is salaries for staff at headquarters and regional offices.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Devitt. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

I appreciate that information. Perhaps the Minister could provide, at his convenience, a comparison with the current fiscal year so we know where the changes have been made. More specifically, the House approved $1.25

million in the current fiscal year in addition to what was originally proposed in the mains for this fiscal year. I’m wondering if the Minister will provide an accounting for how that $1.25 million was expended.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Lafferty.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Yes, we’ll provide the comparable breakdown on the early childhood $7.7 million. We do have the $1.25 million that was committed the last go around. The breakdown itself, we can provide that to the Members as well. The first one is the ECE framework renewal. That’s what we’re going through right now, and also part of that will be coordination with the Northwest Territories different agencies and stakeholders and so forth. Child and family resource centre is another one for $250,000 for two communities, Tulita and Ndilo.

First, if I can reflect back. The framework renewal is slated for $200,000, the child and family resource centre is $250,000, and the early childhood community outreach. That’s another one, the public awareness, $670,000, we’re already advertising, call in, print and so forth. It’s got a list of activities on that page, as well, that we can provide to the Members.

Another one is Early Childhood diploma program through Aurora College, Early Learning Idea Program, zero to three years, $50,000. Also, the last one is the Early Childhood Environmental Rating Inspection Manual and training, which we are working on producing handbooks, for $80,000. That’s just the breakdown that we have before us.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thanks to the Minister for that breakdown. I have some of that information. What I would be interested in, in particular, is how the expenditures have varied from what was planned at the beginning of the fiscal year, so I would appreciate that. I know the Minister made a commitment to have a fully qualified – which I assume means meeting the federal standards – early childhood worker employed at each of the two child and family resource centres. Could I just confirm that those fully qualified people are employed in those programs as per that commitment?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

The $250,000 would offset the cost of those qualified people within that establishment. That was part of the plan, so we are working closely with both communities, Tulita and Ndilo, that have been slated for the $250,000.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Lafferty. A final, short supplementary, Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I’m happy to get on the list again. I didn’t hear the Minister say that that commitment had been fulfilled, that we have actually two fully qualified early childhood

development workers looking after children in these communities. Could I still get that confirmed? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

I’m not sure if we have that detailed information here but we are working with those two establishments, because part of the commitment that was made was to have qualified people within the framework. At this point, I don’t think we have that detailed information but I can provide that to the Member, where the status is at, if they hired those qualified people. We can provide that information. Mahsi.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Lafferty. Mr. Bromley, I will put you back on the list here. We are on questionings on 10-17. I have Ms. Bisaro.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to follow up for my first questions on Mr. Bromley’s questions with regard to the funding for Early Childhood Development.

I noted in the Minister’s opening remarks he stated, in 2013-14 the department plans to spend $7.7 million, about $1.4 million more than budgeted in the 2012-13 Main Estimates. I thought about that. The main estimates were amended, I believe, when committee added $1.25 million to the main estimates. I would like clarification. If we have $1.4 million more than the 2012-13 Main Estimates in this budget, the 2013-14 budget, how much of that $1.4 million is new if we had $1.5 million that was added already after the fact to the mains? Am I correct that our newness is $15,000 give or take? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. For that we’ll go to Mr. Devitt.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Paul Devitt

Mr. Chair, the changes are from mains to mains. I believe the adjustment was made after the mains that the Member referred to, was after the mains were approved so it is included in the difference between the two main estimates. In addition for 2013-14, there is a child daycare inspection coordinator position being added. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Mr. Chair, I don’t think I quite understood that. If we are comparing mains to mains, we had the mains for 2012-13 that were a dollar, say. We have the mains for 2013-14 that are $1.4 million plus one dollar more, so we added after the revised mains from 2012-13 were $1.25 million bigger, from what I understand. Can I get that clarified? Are the revised mains numbers from 2012-13 $1.25 million at least higher in terms of education than the 2012-13 mains for education? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Paul Devitt

Mr. Chair, on page 10-17 for early childhood programs, you can see that the change the Member is referring to, the reallocation of funding, took place after the main estimates were

approved and is shown in the revised main estimates. Maybe that will help clarify. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you. Yes, I see that we went from… If I look at the revised mains to the main estimates, there is not very much of a difference there. Basically, from 2012-13 to 2013-14 we have a difference of $1.4 million minus $1.25 million, $0.15 million, so really the new money in 2013-14 for early childhood is minimal. Am I correct in that? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Paul Devitt

The change is for the child daycare inspection coordinator which is approximately an addition of $138,000. There are other changes for collective agreements, but that’s the major change that’s taking place since the revised main estimates. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Mr. Chair, okay, I think it’s as clear as mud. So really the $1.4 million more in this year’s estimates is a bit of smoke and mirrors. Really the addition is whatever number Mr. Devitt just gave me, which has gone out of my head already.

I’d like to know from the Minister, with looking at this $1.4 million that the Minister says is like new money, how are we using the $1 million that has been carried over from the 2012-13 revised mains. The money that the committee added to the budget last year, the $1 million or $1.25 million, how is that being used in this budget? Is it being used in the same way for the same programs? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Minister Lafferty.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. The $1.25 million or $132,000 that the Member is referring to, we had to be creative and innovative when we had to go through the budget cycle last time so we can find the money from within. So that’s where it came from. I just outlined the $1.25 million where the funding will be allocated. There are five different key areas that I have laid out and I can provide that copy to the Members. Mahsi.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Mr. Chair, thanks to the Minister. No, I don’t need that. We have that information. I just wanted to know that it’s basically being used for the same programs this year as it was for last year.

I’d like to go back to… I started to talk about heritage and the requests from the various heritage organizations to the Minister. I didn’t really understand in the budget where cultural contributions show up. If I could get that clarified, that would be helpful. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. For that we’ll go to Mr. Devitt.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Paul Devitt

Mr. Chair, the cultural and heritage programs are under this activity, education and culture. The contributions are shown on pages 10-19 and 10-20.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Mr. Chair, thanks to the director. That’s helpful.

In terms of culture and heritage, I know I suggested to the Minister, in my statement last week, that we could give a higher profile to heritage than we do. We have a Minister’s Cultural Circle, but I’d like to ask the Minister specifically whether or not he would entertain a name change to those awards, if he would call it the Minister’s Cultural and Heritage Circle, just adding the word “heritage” in there. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Minister Lafferty.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. When it was brought up in the House, I did look at the criteria as well. The heritage is laid out as part of the criteria within the policies that we have that we follow. It captures the heritage as part of the program that we currently have. If there’s going to be some name changes, then that would be something that I may have to re-evaluate and talk to certain groups and whatnot. I did take that into consideration when Ms. Bisaro did raise it in the House and I’m currently working with various organizations as part of the process. Mahsi.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Mr. Chair, I have another question with regard to these heritage funds and the culture funds. They are on pages 19 and 20. I would like to know from the Minister how these funds are administered. Are they called cultural funds? If they are just cultural funds, are they administered through the department or is there a group somewhat like the Arts Council that administers the funds and doles them out? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mr. Chair, what I’m looking at is cultural and heritage. I believe that is the information that I have. Maybe I will get my director to maybe elaborate a bit more.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Lafferty. Mr. Devitt.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Paul Devitt

Mr. Chair, the arts and cultural contributions are administered. Some of them are administered by the department and the Arts Council, though, administers the ones shown on page 10-20 under NWT Arts Council. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you,Mr. Devitt. Ms. Bisaro.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I’ll sneak the last question in. So we really don’t have much of a profile in terms of heritage. The NWT Arts Council, I presume it’s called an arts council. So I presume that they don’t and their description doesn’t say much about grants for heritage. So there are donations for heritage centres, but that tends to be the operations of the centres themselves. So in terms of programming, it sounds to me as though the only funding in this budget for programming is

cultural projects, which is $36,000. Am I correct in that? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Minister Lafferty.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. Heritage centres do receive funding, as well, of $491,000. Again, arts councils, culture projects, cultural organizations, when you really look at it in detail, cultural organizations, cultural projects do capture heritage because you work closely with the museum. In the Sahtu region there was a project on the go with ice. So those areas do capture heritage. It may not be upfront, but almost every one of them do capture heritage. Mahsi.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Lafferty. Ms. Bisaro, time is up. I can put you back on the list. Next I have Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just to follow up a little bit, significant dollars were committed to early childhood community outreach in response to the priorities raised in the House. I’m wondering if we can get some kind of report as to how those dollars have been spent. Will they be fully expended this fiscal year and fully renewed for the next in this budget? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Lafferty.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. The child and family resource centres, the two communities, again, working very closely with them. We had some challenges with the community of Ndilo. Their CEO left and he was actively involved with developing the proposal. So time lapsed and we continued our discussions in the early new year. He left around December. So right now, as it stands, we’ve allocated funding. I believe it was the first or second week in February. We were assured by the group that are working closely with us on this particular project that the funding that’s been allocated to them that there was enough time to complete before March 31st . So we want to make

sure that happens. Again, reiterating that we are working closely with them, my department with Ndilo and also Tulita, to make it successful. To renew, that’s an area that we are currently going through as part of the Early Childhood Development Framework, which will be brought forward to this House, as well, as a tabled document going forward. So I can’t really commit today if it’s going to be renewed. It will be based on the output of the discussions that we’ve had with the stakeholders and the elders. If that is the wish then we’ll put it as part of the package. Mahsi.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you. My question was activity three, early childhood community outreach, and the Minister has spoken about activity two. But obviously it would be very disappointing if at the very end of the fiscal year we provided the money

for a program and then in a few weeks later discontinued it. That is exactly where government gets its reputation from.

So my question was on the substantial amount of funding on early childhood community outreach. What have we done in this area? Have we extended the money and are we going to bring that forward? Is that in this new budget?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi. Sorry about that. I was referring to option two. Number three is early childhood community outreach, $670,000 that’s been budgeted and to date we’ve spent that on various initiatives such as public awareness, elders’ sharing circle, there’s a Healthy Family Program working with the Health and Social Services department. ECD, Early Childhood Development Framework, again, working with Health and Social Services, an engagement plan, the regional committee members travelling to various sites and so forth. Children’s resources for Prince of Wales Northern Heritage Centre, supplies and educational materials, and there’s a whole list of activity that’s been played and we’ve gone beyond the $670,000 that’s been allocated. The Member is asking if we’re going to have that renewed. Again, I have to refer back to the Early Childhood Development Framework that will be before us and it will be part of the business planning cycle as we move forward to 2014-2015. Mahsi.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you. The figure I have is $300,000 for this activity. The Minister refers to $670,000. This was to be focused exclusively on the zero to three years old, the critical years, prenatal through three years old and I think there was some Aboriginal Head Start Program money in there. But anyway, I’d say it’s very difficult to get the information I’m looking for today.

Moving on, the pupil-teacher ratio we have is way beyond what’s called for in legislation and it’s been demonstrated that there’s no correlation between the performance we’re getting in education, the outcomes and this excessively low, which is generally favourable, pupil-teacher ratio. There’s an obvious opportunity for efficiency. Is the Minister planning to do anything with that? Is that being proposed in this budget? Mahsi.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi. The pupil-teacher ratio has been brought up in this House, as well, along with inclusive schooling. It is part of the education renewal when we talk about the small communities, the teachers teaching so many students in their classrooms and how we expend funding to the school boards. So those are the factors I will be taking into consideration when we’re discussing that with the stakeholders, the school boards, educators at the community level, hearing their input, and based on that, we need to make some changes. We are legislated, but it’s well

beyond the legislated level. So that’s where we are at this point. Mahsi.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thanks for that information. I’d like to see a distinct proposal come forward to committee and I hope it does.

Moving on, again, the cultural heritage arts organizations and projects, there is a real need for an arts centre – arts, cultural and heritage centre, really – in a number of regions. Certainly in the capital. This is obviously an infrastructure project, but I don’t know that the government would be responsible for a large role in that, but I would see the government playing a role in facilitating an effort by all of the groups and perhaps the community interested in pursuing that. Does the Minister see a role for helping facilitate this interest in a regional cultural, heritage, arts centre? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Anything to do with arts, we are there. We want to be involved. Through the coordination, if it’s a centre that’s infrastructure, and we have to work closely with Public Works and Services. Other agencies are out there that we provide funding to. Whether it be the arts council, the heritage centre, the cultural projects, cultural organizations, all these different groups we have to engage. Again, it’s part of the capital planning because we are talking about centres. Anything to do with arts programming and so forth, we are willing to work interdepartmental, which we currently are going with Public Works and Services. We will continue to do that with other agencies that are out there and actively involved with arts programming.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thanks for the Minister’s comments. I think this is legitimately discussed in an operational budget. I think we’re talking facilitation of planning from public groups in these areas and the Minister providing some leadership assistance in helping organize efforts where our partners would be the major funders, perhaps, because I haven’t seen much interest from this government for funding such centres in terms of infrastructure. Anyway, I hope the Minister will look at that as an opportunity.

The language nests that we’re doing, moving on here under Aboriginal languages, I'm just wondering, once again, are there elders and fluent language, how is it assured that the real holders of the language participate in these language nests?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

When we talk about the language nests, obviously the program would have to be delivered by a language spoken qualified teacher. That is an area that sometimes we’re challenged with. To date I have seen some real success in regions that are delivering the Language Nest programming. We’ll continue to invest in those areas because they are working. When I talk about the elders in school, I want them to be fully engaged in those areas. I have made a

commitment that we want that to be delivered. It probably won’t be in all schools, but starting this school year in the fall time. We want to have some of the schools to have elders as a beginner to be involved in this, whether it be the language nests or cultural language classes that they are teaching, on-the-land programs and so forth. We do have some teachers, but obviously we want more qualified Aboriginal speaking teachers in our classrooms and we are pushing for more of that through the TEP program and through the ASEP program and so forth. We will continue to push that forward and have dialogue with the school boards, with the college. We’re always emphasizing with the college that we need to produce more qualified Aboriginal speaking teachers. That is our goal.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Mr. Bromley, your time is up. Moving on with questions I have Mr. Moses.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My questions, I’m going to get away from early childhood development. My colleague has asked some good questions around that and the dollars that we did fight for over the last two budget sessions here. I’m going to go into school contributions.

The school contribution provides contributions to education authorities for the operation of NWT schools. I’d just like to, looking at some of the numbers here from the 2011-2012 actuals and the revised estimates of 2012-2013 to this year’s main estimates, there’s been less than a 1 percent increase to the budgets that are going out to the education authorities. With forced growth and everything that we’re dealing with within the regions, speaking with some of our educators in the regions, they feel that the budgets they’re getting offered aren’t sufficient to run the proper programs and services for both staff and students.

I just wanted to get an idea of what the funding formula is and how they categorize the funding formula, whether it’s by region. Maybe if the Minister can elaborate how they come to be at the dollar amount for each authority within the Northwest Territories.

Obviously, representing the Beaufort-Delta region and working with the Beaufort-Delta Education Authority the costs of travelling in that region is very high and the cost of living is very high. I just want to know how they come up with the funding formula and if that funding formula does actually put some of the education authorities below what other regions are getting for their dollars, especially when we live in such a high cost of living area in the territory.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Moses. Minister Lafferty.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

The funding that we provide to the schools is based on enrolment. Not only that, but there is indexing in pricing, whether it be the salary of those qualified people in the education system. Also, the operation costs. As you know, every year there is an increase in costs. Those are some of the areas that does capture. I’ll get my director to maybe elaborate about the process itself of enrolment and so forth, because he’s actively involved in this area.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Mr. Devitt.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Paul Devitt

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As the Minister explained, the formulas are based on a number of factors. They are based on enrolments but the amounts vary, depending on the size of the school, the location. For example, a teacher in some communities would receive northern allowance and that is a factor. As well, there are additional costs of shipping and just high cost of living, and that’s indexed, as well, into the formula. The formula looks at all those factors and at the different areas of the formula. There are areas for administration, for the teacher formula for both elementary and secondary schooling, there’s funding for Aboriginal language and culture programs, for inclusive schooling and, as well, we fund for – particularly in Yellowknife – utilities and maintenance of buildings, although for other areas of the North that amount is budgeted in Public Works and Services.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Devitt. Mr. Moses.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Mr. Devitt did speak on a few items that were taken into consideration when you come out to how we fund our education authorities. When he mentioned something like it varies on the size of the school and we get schools that are the same size in Paulatuk as you do get into maybe Kakisa or something, I’m thinking if that is put into the factor then they’re both going to get the same type of education when we know that we have longer winter months up in Paulatuk that might be more O and M class to run the school. Some things need to be taken into consideration.

Maybe if I can ask the Minister and his staff if he would commit to providing myself all the criteria of deciding how a funding formula works, and I can take a look at it, and also maybe break down how the funding is distributed throughout the regions in the Northwest Territories. That way I can get a good grasp on how dollars are spent. Especially in the coastal communities, I just want to see how those communities are getting funded in terms of their location as well. Maybe I can ask the Minister if he could commit to providing me all the details and then also breaking down how each region, not each region but how much each region is being funded.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Moses. Mr. Lafferty.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. We can definitely provide the breakdown, how much, whether it be the regions or the schools, comparable from small communities to larger centres and the remoteness and so forth.

As it stands currently with enrolment and the price index and so forth, as part of the education renewal we are going to be looking at that. The formula funding is a big topic every time we go to the communities. Small communities feel left out. It will capture that as part of the systems and, also, accountability. That is part of the discussion that we’re going to be having with the stakeholders.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

[Microphone turned off]

…contributions and the formula funding, I’d just like to ask the Minister when the last time the formula funding was assessed. When was the last time that the formula funding for education authorities was assessed and renewed?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

I was just asking my director, since he’s been 30-plus years. It is assessed on an annual basis but I don’t think there have been any major changes. That’s the whole reason why we’re doing the education renewal under my leadership, we want to see positive impacts in the communities based on their needs. Those are discussions we will be having over the year.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Just continuing on this page, in terms of the Aboriginal Languages Strategy, I want to say good job earlier on your Member’s statement. Very well done. I’d just like to ask the Minister where we are in revitalizing the Aboriginal languages in the Northwest Territories, as well as an update of the iTunes project application and how that’s working out. Just two updates: one on where we are on the Aboriginal Languages Revitalization Strategy and if there’s anything that has been put into action today, and then also maybe an update on how successful the iTunes application project that he initiated is working.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Moses for your kind words. Mr. Lafferty.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. This is an area that is one of the priorities within our department because we know we are losing the languages in the region. As you know, we’ve developed some apps pertaining to Aboriginal languages. We have developed five already and now we’re currently working on an additional two. It was part of my Minister’s statement today that I highlighted we are working on two more Aboriginal languages so that, at the end of the day, we will be up to seven. We’ll want to capture all nine in the long term.

There’s also a symposium coming up in March over the next couple of weeks. That is an area that we want to focus on the Aboriginal Language Secretariat, and all the funding that we provide to various divisions and various pots of funds, we want to amalgamate them all into one area. Instead of going from one shop to another shop, we’re going to have a venue where the funding will be available to the communities and regions. We want to disburse that money directly to the regions, to the languages affected areas.

I know where Members are going with this, where Gwich’in is losing their language, as well, very rapidly. Now we’re focusing in those areas where it’s a key, a badly needed area that we need to come up with options and that’s what we are pursuing. When we talk about revitalizing our language, this is an area that has been geared towards those most impacted with potentially losing their language. It’s not only our department, it’s working with the agencies and working with language experts. That’s why we’re doing this second annual Aboriginal language symposium, to share the input in the second phase of our Aboriginal Languages Secretariat that would be before us. We’re thinking long term, so that’s an area that we will continue to push forward.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Lafferty. Mr. Moses, your time’s up. I’ll put you on the list if you need be. Moving on with questions I have Ms. Bisaro.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I wanted to just ask a question follow-through on the Aboriginal languages section and ask a question here as well. I’ve mentioned a number of times that the department has indicated, or I think they’ve indicated, that there should be some amendments coming to the Official Languages Act. There was a recommendation from committee in the 16th Assembly to amalgamate the Aboriginal Languages Board and the Revitalization Board as well. There were some difficulties, I think, with legislative amendments, I think, because of federal legislation. I’d like to get an update from the Minister on where the amendments to the Official Languages Act are at. Do we still have difficulties with federal legislation or has that hurdle been overcome?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Minister Lafferty.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. This is an area that we have worked closely with the federal government. As you know, they provide funding on an annual basis to both the Aboriginal language and French language, as well, on an annual basis. We will continue to work with them.

As the Member alluded to, sometimes it’s very difficult to change the overall act if they provide funding and we still have to engage with them, but we can provide the latest update to see where

we’re at. We’re hoping to introduce a bill for consideration during the life of the 17th Assembly,

working closely with the federal government and making this a reality. It was part of the SCOGO, I believe, recommendation that amalgamating the Revitalization Board and the Official Languages Board into one language board. That’s a target date that we have and we want to get it done during the life of this Assembly.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks to the Minister for that update. That’s good to hear. I know there are difficulties with dealing with the federal law, so I’m glad to hear that it’s on the radar and hopefully it will happen in the next couple of years.

I wanted to ask the Minister a question about inclusive schooling. It’s been a hot topic in the last couple of weeks, but in the Minister’s opening remarks he spoke to the department is working with education authorities to improve the delivery of student supports provided under the Inclusive Schooling program, and at the end of the paragraph he said it will help us build a more effective evidence-based program.

I think I’d like confirmation, again, from the Minister, but I think the Minister and the department are finally starting to hear Regular Members and realizing that the Inclusive Schooling programming and the Inclusive Schooling funding formula are not doing the job that they should, and I’m really pleased to hear that there will be an evaluation of both of those aspects of our education program. I’d like to get confirmation from the Minister that, yes, that is happening and it’s going to be an in-depth review.

The other question I’d like to ask the Minister, again, is in questions earlier today I believe he said that the changes will not be ready for September 2013 at the start of that school year. I’d like to ask the Minister, as well as confirming that the review is underway, can we speed up this one section of the review so that changes to the Inclusive Schooling programming and funding can be effective September 2013.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

This Inclusive Schooling is an area that we are going through some review process as part of the education renewal. As I stated before in this House already, the $26 million that we contribute to school boards and there is a reporting mechanism, but we really don’t know the numbers of special needs out there. That's an area that we need to identify to work with. Members have indicated that this whole Inclusive Schooling should be reviewed. Even the general public. So that’s what we’re doing now. I’ve made a commitment in the House by late fall, early winter, and if we can expedite one piece of work. It is a very complex document that’s before us. The $26 million is even complex, as well, so we’ll do what we can, but at this point I can’t really promise if it

will be delivered prior to the school year this fall. We’ll do to the best of our ability to deliver that, but one of the target dates, of course, is late fall and early winter. We’ll expedite inclusive schooling as much as we can in that regard.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks to the Minister. I appreciate that it’s difficult, but if this one section of the review can be removed and sped up, I think that would certainly be well appreciated, I think, by all education authorities, and I think by the schools and by the teachers as well.

I do have a motion, Mr. Chair.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

I move that this committee strongly recommends that the government take immediate action to reassess and redefine the distribution of Inclusive Schooling funding to recognize changing trends in the distribution of inclusive schooling needs across schools, and to ensure funding is allocated according to assessed needs of students so students requiring the support actually receive it;

And further, that the Department of Education, Culture and Employment provide adequate funding to education authorities for inclusive schooling to ensure early and ongoing diagnosis and assessment of students occurs and is completed within reasonable time frames. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. I believe the motion is just being distributed right now. The motion is in order. To the motion. Ms. Bisaro.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I’ll just speak briefly to the motion. We have had a lot of discussion about inclusive schooling, and I think one of the things that this motion tries to address is that the current Inclusive Schooling funding does not work. Providing a percentage of funding according to population to schools is not recognizing that there are certain schools and/or certain authorities who have a higher need for funding for special needs students. It’s been suggested that maybe the funding should follow the student, and I’m not so sure that that’s the exact way to go, but certainly we need to have something that’s halfway in between the funding following the student and a percentage amount going to every school and every authority.

This motion is talking to that, about redefining or reorganizing and reassessing and redefining the Inclusive Schooling funding. It’s also talking, though, about providing funding to education authorities to properly diagnose and assess

students with special needs. One of the things that Members hear quite often is that it’s very difficult to get students diagnosed; it’s very difficult to get students assessed. There are two things in this motion. Those are the two, and I think that’s all I need to say.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. To the motion.

An Hon. Member

Question.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Question is being called. The motion is carried. Ms. Bisaro.

---Carried

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I wanted to ask a question on a bit of a different topic. In his opening remarks, he talked about a statement: The department will implement and provide supports for a territorial safe schools plan along with anti-bullying legislation. The Minister has talked about safe schools. He’s talked about anti-bullying legislation and they are kind of referenced in the same breath sometimes. I would like to know from the Minister what is the difference between the safe schools plan and the anti-bullying legislation which is presumably on its way. Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Minister Lafferty.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. Currently, there was a motion brought forward by yourself, the Members in this House to look into possibly anti-bullying legislation brought forward within an 18-month time frame. That is an area that we have been working at since the motion was introduced. We are hoping to introduce that this coming spring session. That’s the time frame that we have. It does cover a broad area of anti-bullying legislation.

When I talk about the safe schools and the comprehensive plan that we are working on, there is a plan that we are working on on anti-bullying, working closely with the school boards and agencies and doing a lot of research in this area capturing what is in existence in the schools and building on that. If we can have a policy or legislation, anti-bullying legislation in general and then have the schools… We know that a lot of schools have their own policies, as well, and building on that. Those are just the two that we have introduced, unless I have my deputy maybe elaborate a bit more, if she has more detailed information, which I believe she has. Mahsi.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Ms. Eggenhofer.

Eggenhofer

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think they are two separate tools to deal with bullying prevention. One is a plan that sets out measures, and tools and resources that would be available to schools to deal with bullying. The other one is really

an amendment to the Education Act or a stand-alone anti-bullying legislation that sets out provisions in legislation about the government’s tolerance around bullying.

I think the two of them don’t necessarily have to go together. That’s what we are examining at this stage, whether a comprehensive plan in and of itself that has the input from the stakeholders would be a sufficient tool to address anti-bullying in school or whether legislation is required.

We have received some feedback from the NWTTA and I think there is a bit of nervousness around having provisions in the Education Act that deal with bullying because the question of enforcement always comes up. We have done a cross-jurisdictional check to see how many jurisdictions in Canada actually have legislation alone or a plan or both and it’s kind of an even split. But the only way to deal with bullying isn’t just legislation. A lot of jurisdictions have looked at the development of comprehensive plans. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Eggenhofer. Before we continue with questionings, committee, we are going to take a quick five-minute break.

---SHORT RECESS

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Okay, we will come back, committee. We will continue on questioning here with Ms. Bisaro. Go ahead, Ms. Bisaro.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thanks to the deputy minister for her comments. I want to say that I am a little concerned that safe schools and anti-bullying are mentioned in the same breath and they seem to have the same focus. For me, safe schools or a safe schools plan or policy encompasses far more than just anti-bullying. In my mind, it should look at safe schools in terms of students, the safety of the students. It should look at the safety of the teachers and it should look at the safety of other staff within the school. Bullying is one aspect, but there certainly are other things which happen to make the workplace unsafe for teachers and which happen to make the school grounds and the environment itself unsafe for students.

I would strongly encourage the department, when they talk about safe schools, to look beyond bullying and look at all aspects of keeping a school safe. All users, all components of the whole school program should be considered in dealing with a safe schools policy.

I had one other question and it goes to the e-learning that Mr. Moses has talked about in the last week or so, but also in line with the Mackenzie Valley fibre optic project. It’s going to change hugely our access to data, our access to, sort of, technology and it will give us a much greater opportunity to have our students learn differently. I’d like to know, I guess, in terms of this renewal

that is being looked at, the whole education system is being looked at, with the fibre optic project coming on-line in 2016, if that is the time frame that I understand that we are looking at. We should be now, in my mind, looking at how we will deliver our learning, how we will deliver our programs, how we will deliver our teaching differently, and the e-learning project is one example of that. But what is the department doing within the renewal or the reform project to look three years down the road and change the way we provide our education to our kids to take full advantage of the fibre optic link when it’s up and running? Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Minister Lafferty.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi. We’re very excited about this fibre optic link that’s before us, and we’re hoping that 2014-2015, well, 2014 I guess, the deliverance of the optic. When we met with the Beaufort-Delta on the e-learning, there’s excitement in the air. We’re delivering programs that are not being delivered in small communities as opposed to larger centres. Not only that, but at the same time delivering language apps into the schools and language programming where we have an elder on another screen who can work closely with the students.

There’s so many ways that we can take advantage of the e-learning, the fibre optic link that’s before us. We are getting ready. We know it’s approximately a year and a half, two years from now. My department is working very closely with the school boards on what kind of programs can be delivered now, and we talk about various tools that kids and children play with, whether it be on-line programming, gaming, what kind of educational gaming and so forth.

So those are just some of the areas that my department is working closely on. I can get my deputy to maybe elaborate a bit more, just involving the school boards and potential programs that will be available. Mahsi.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Lafferty. Ms. Eggenhofer.

Eggenhofer

Thank you, Mr. Chair. As the Minister said, the e-learning orientation that we were allowed to be part of was very exciting, and we’ve had dialogue with the Beaufort-Delta Education Council already on how we can expand the project into other school boards. We’re looking at that, as the Minister said, for both the Aboriginal languages as well as for general school operations and orientations with teachers. I think the possibilities are endless, and as part of the education renewal we’re taking a look at that.

With the fibre optic link it’s going to be much easier to access on-line resources, and we don’t deal with the technical difficulties of the usual pauses or

buffering. So we’re quite excited and have the initial connections with the folks at the BDEC already. Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Eggenhofer. Moving on with questions on this page I have Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I wanted to ask a question on the Aboriginal language and culture-based education. I know we have, I think, a couple of programs where we produce teachers or teacher equivalents in languages and culture such as the ALCIP program. What certificates or diplomas are available, and how many graduates do we have in this fiscal year?

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Lafferty.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi. There is a certification diploma in Aboriginal Language Instruction and Coordinator Program. We’ve had real success in the Beaufort-Delta. Just last year we had, I can’t remember exactly the numbers, but I think up to 12, I believe. I could be wrong. But we had a good number of graduates, and we’ll want to utilize them in various fields as we possibly can or even encourage them to pursue even higher education.

I don’t have the actual number for this fiscal year. The graduates are coming through the system. So we can provide that kind of detailed information once we have that from the college to the Members. Again, it has been very positive to date, and we want to deliver that in other regions as well. The college delivers it, and we are also delivering it to the regions too.

So I just got the information from my director that in 2012-13 there’s ALCIP, Inuvik TEP, and South Slave ALCIP program. Ten students are enrolled in year two of the TEP in Inuvik, and five students are enrolled in year two of ALCIP at the K’atlodeeche First Nation. That’s just some of the highlights. I can provide more detail to the Members. Mahsi.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you. At one point it took a number of years to actually complete the program. Is the ALCIP program down to a two-year program now? Thank you.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi. There have been some modules that individuals had to take in the past. It was a part of the certification program. Now we are delivering a diploma program, and if the student is enrolled full-time, then they should be able to complete the program in two years. Again, we’re working closely with the college on this.

There are certification students that are part-time students. Even the diploma program, some are part-time, some are full-time. So it does fluctuate in how long they take on the program, but we’ll

provide the Members with the information from the college. Mahsi.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thanks to the Minister for those comments. I guess I would be interested to know that we are offering the courses in a way that it is possible for those that wish it to complete the certification or the diploma programs in a fairly efficient amount of time. So I will appreciate that update.

My last question on this page has to do with controllable assets. I notice under details of other expenses there’s been a substantial change in that amount over the last couple of fiscal years. I wonder if I could have a brief explanation of what we’re talking about here and why the dramatically declining numbers on that line item. Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. For that we’ll go to Mr. Devitt.

Paul Devitt

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I believe, if I heard correctly, it’s controllable assets that the Member referred to. The difference is, for the reduction this year, was the Prince of Wales Northern Heritage repairs were budgeted in 2012-13 are no longer needed because it was a one-time cost.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank s to Mr. Devitt. Just for my own learning here, I think it might have been a couple of million or something like that a couple of years ago, half a million, and now down to $20,000. How do we define things as controllable asset versus infrastructure expenditures? Because this clearly seems like an infrastructure expenditure to me, but somehow it’s being designated a controllable asset. How do we know what’s what? Thank you.

Paul Devitt

I guess hopefully a simple explanation would be that when you’re doing repairs, if it’s not extending the life of the asset, then it’s considered O and M as opposed to capital. Thank you.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

That was very concise and clear. That’s all I had, Mr. Chair. Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Page 10-17, Education, Culture and Employment, activity summary, education and culture, operations expenditure summary, $198.772 million. Ms. Bisaro.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just one question here. Mr. Bromley brought my eyes to the line that says other. I complained bitterly in the 16th that we had amounts in other that weren’t explained anywhere, and I just wondered. I thought we’d gotten rid of all of those. I’d like to know from the department what the $258,000 under other is for and why we don’t have an explanation for it on this page.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. For that we’ll go to Mr. Devitt.

Paul Devitt

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The other here, I think, would be probably furnishings. It could also be chargeback expenses, but I believe it’s probably furnishing for the Aboriginal Languages Secretariat. There may be other expenses in there. I don’t have all the detail.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Following up with that answer, then, are there things in the other category which couldn’t also be posted, for instance, under materials and supplies? I would think that’s where furnishings would go. If it’s TSC chargebacks, then one would think they would go there. That’s actually another question. How come there’s no chargebacks for TSC from the department? I would just ask that the department eliminate other in the next year’s budget.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Mr. Lafferty.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. I do remember the Member raising that issue, and we will do it for next year. I’m kind of surprised that it was still here too. We’ll make that work.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

I guess I should ask why there’s no TSC chargebacks.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. For that we’ll go to Mr. Devitt.

Paul Devitt

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I was naming off some of the items that might be charged other, but in this case I believe it would be furnishings. The chargeback expenses are in the directorate.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Okay. I guess I would suggest then, does that line really need to be there, because it’s very confusing. Thank you. That’s all.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. We’ll take that as a comment. Page 10-17, Education, Culture and Employment, activity summary, education and culture, operations expenditure summary, $198.772 million.

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Pages 10-18 to 10-20, Education, Culture and Employment, activity summary, education and culture, grants and contributions; grants, total grants, $52,000, contributions, total contributions, $168.801 million, total grants and contributions, $168.853 million. Ms. Bisaro.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just have to go back to my issue with heritage and projects. Maybe it’s just the way that it’s written, but if I look on page 10-20, the NWT Arts Council gives contributions to artists and cultural groups – okay, that might include heritage – but then it goes on to

say to encourage creative artistic projects in visual literary performing and new media arts in the NWT. I would think that a heritage organization is not likely to want to do a creative artistic project.

I again would have to stress to the Minister that I don’t see much opportunity in here for a heritage organization like, say, the Norman Wells Heritage Society. They get funding for their building, yes, but do they get funding for outreach, for education purposes, for other programs that they might do? I don’t really see that there’s much in here. If it’s included – there’s cultural organizations on page 10-19 for $554,000 – if it’s included in there, then okay, fine. But I really don’t see where the word heritage is relative, is specifically related to programming on these three pages.

If I could maybe get a bit more explanation as to if the wording is incorrect and the word heritage needs to be added, or if there just isn’t money for heritage programming.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Mr. Lafferty.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. Some of the areas that we talk about, the heritage centre, $491,000, the cultural projects, preserving, identity enhancement, traditional cultures, and contribution to administration and operations, those are just some areas that will capture it. I understand where the Member is coming from with the arts council. New Northern Arts Program does capture to some degree northern film, part of the heritage.

I do take the Member’s comments into consideration, and we can definitely, well, we do have some highlights of what kind of organizations we currently sponsor. Based on that, we can identify if it’s part of the covering of heritage aspect. Duly noted. We can provide detailed information if that is the wish of the Members as well.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Just to comment, I appreciate that the Minister understands where I’m coming from. But if he’s looking for sort of what the groups are looking for, I would reference him to the letter which came on the Mine Heritage Society letterhead, signed by seven or nine, I think, different heritage groups within the NWT. There were a couple of requests in there which, if he’s looking for inspiration, could provide some. I’m not looking for further information than what’s here. That’s all.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Moving on with questions here, I have Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I did want to follow up on top of page 10-19, the large item there, education authority contributions. I’d like to just find out where we’re at with the TSC chargeback. We have learned that we are starting to bring our health authorities into the fold with

TSC. The common comment from the Auditor General is that departments aren’t necessarily providing the standards and leadership that they could be for our authorities.

This is one area I think that could be very helpful, is if we’re all using the same system. So communications, and I think we’re working on the financial end of things, could be standardized. I’m not aware of any of the authorities planning to convert to our system as some of the health authorities are, but is there a plan? Is the department thinking about this? Where are we at on that front?

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Mr. Lafferty.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is an area that we have been discussing interdepartmentally. There is the TSC chargeback, I believe, in every department. Our Department of Education, Culture and Employment, I believe we’re one of the biggest users along with Health and Social Services because of our videos and linkage.

We’ve been exploring different options on how we can get away from that specific area where our Internet accessibility is quite large and part of the GNWT system. This whole fibre optic link and also the e-learning is a small piece of it, but that is an area that we have been exploring. I believe my director has been involved with the chargeback itself, and maybe he can provide the detailed breakdown.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Mr. Devitt.

Paul Devitt

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The education authorities are on the government network. They separated their traffic to improve service, or at least the TSC has separated traffic. We do work very closely with the TSC in this area, if that’s what the Member was referring. I hope that answers his question.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Devitt. Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

That’s news to me. I didn’t hear that discussed earlier when it was up. I appreciate that information. As I understand it, our education authorities do use our TSC programming but it’s done in a separate way. But they are integrated across authorities, so we just provide funding to them. Do they get chargebacks on their own? Would it show up in their budget, TSC chargebacks?

Paul Devitt

The network charges are budgeted in the directorate for the department and the network for the education authorities. I should point out that the education authorities are not on the government e-mail system and they don’t receive

the same technical support, but they are on the government network.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Who does their technical work then? Do they hire their own? How does that work?

Paul Devitt

For networking within the schools, they would either use their own staff or contract for that. TSC would take the network to the schools.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

I think I’m understanding the system now. I don’t have the expertise to criticize or critique it. I guess I would ask if that is the most efficient, having TSC look after our GNWT throughout our communities, and now slowly adding all the health authorities, but having our education authorities contract their own separate maintenance system. Is there an opportunity for an efficiency there, or is that something the Minister would look at?

Paul Devitt

We did look at the system a couple of years ago. We did a study, and it did recommend some changes that we’ll be implementing in terms of standards. We’ll also, I’m sure, be looking at this and other areas as part of the renewal project.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

That’s good to know. Maybe that’s something the department could share with committee at some point just to see what those reports said. I’m glad efficiencies have been found and worked on. I guess I would just ask the Minister to be sure and include that, then, in the education renewal. That’s all I had.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. I think we have a commitment from the Minister on that, so we’ll take that as a yes then. Moving on with questions I have Mr. Moses.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just a really quick question here on page 10-19 with the Healthy Children Initiative with the contributions to communities in the amount of $2.1 million. What type of integrated early intervention services is being offered? Can the Minister elaborate on these services and if it’s being offered to all 33 communities or not?

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Moses. Mr. Lafferty.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

I was just looking at the list and I’m not sure if it’s all 33 communities, but I do have quite a list here. It does capture early childhood, disabilities, district education, friendship centre, daycare society, nursery, library committee, and playschool and so forth. But I need to find out if it does capture all 33 communities, and if not, why not, and those types of questions. But this is all based on proposals that we receive from the communities. That’s what we have to date, the 2011-2012 actual numbers that we’re using, proposals that we receive, so I can provide that information to the Members. It is detail from the communities.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Just for clarification, this contribution here is open for all organizations that provide healthy children initiatives in the communities, so I’m assuming with it capped at $2.1 million it’s pretty well on a first-come, first-served basis.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

That’s correct. It’s open to anybody that wants to deal with the preventive measurement, the early children’s initiative and so forth, in the 33 communities that we service, so it is open to them.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Lafferty. Committee, we’re combining 10-18, 19 and 20. Education, Culture and Employment, activity summary, education and culture, grants and contributions, grants, total grants, $52,000, contributions, total contributions, $168.801 million, total grants and contributions, $168.853 million. Does committee agree?

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you. Page 8-21, Education, Culture and Employment, information item, education and culture, active positions. Any questions?

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Being none, 8-23, Education, Culture and Employment, activity summary, advanced education, operations expenditure summary, $48.727 million. Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just want to follow up a little bit on the adult learning and basic education programs, and I have got some information from the Minister recently which I appreciated. Can the Minister summarize what the plans are for this year with the CanNor dollars? Is that a matching funding? Is that something we match or are we able to use those dollars exclusively on their own for this ALBE initiative?

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Great. Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Lafferty.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. The announcement came from the federal government directly to Aurora College, for Aurora College to deliver or enhance the ALBE. It’s specifically for ALBE programming, so they made it clear from the federal perspective. What we currently provide funding to ALBE is above and beyond that, so we are, as a department, working again closely with the college. There has to be a planning process to expend those funds through the college, so even though it’s their funding, we, as a department, still continue to work with them. This is an area that has been earmarked for the college to deliver ALBE through CanNor. That’s the information that we have, and again, the fund is flowed through to the college and we continue to work with them.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thanks to the Minister for that information. I know we have done a pretty extensive review ourselves of ALBE through our program review office, and I know, I think maybe the Auditor General may have commented as well. One of the things that is clear is that we spend a lot of money on this, a lot of money on ALBE, and I have to say, I was a little bit surprised when I found out we’re getting a whole bunch more money from CanNor for this. It’s not something I would ever turn down, of course. I’m happy to see it. But one of the issues was we didn’t know what we were achieving with those dollars. Maybe we knew we weren’t achieving what we wanted to with those dollars, so the really big question is what we do with them and so on. This is within GNWT rather than Aurora College, although Aurora College is probably part of it. Where are we at with that? I believe there have been some moves to put in some evaluation programs. Can I just get an update on that? Are they in place, are we starting to measure objectively what we’re getting out of our rather large expenditures on ALBE, and will the CanNor dollars be subject to that sort of evaluation and monitoring as well?

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

I realize that part of the review process was based on certain criteria, whether it be evaluating and so forth. This CanNor funding up to $9 million, I believe, over the two years to expand the programming in our territory and increase employment opportunities for the North. Of course, I’m happy that we received funding, as well, and any new funding that’s available to us, even though we’ve done our comprehensive review of our adult basic learning education. But at the same time, we have to keep in mind that there are a lot of opportunities out there where we need to utilize and expand our campuses. When I say campuses, that means learning centres throughout the Northwest Territories. The Sahtu, and now Deh Cho and Beaufort-Delta are coming on stream as well. We have to prepare these individuals, which we may not have had in the past except for the three diamond mines, and we’ve seen the results of that. We’ve seen so many people that went through the ALBE program, whether it be heavy equipment operators, apprentices and so forth.

We’ve seen some success, so this is an area that we want to capture as part of that up to $9 million that’s been handed over to the college. We want to be involved along the way. We realize that we’ve done our own homework and so that’s an area that we will continue to work, of course, with the federal government and with the college itself.

There is an accountability framework for training of adults, the Auditor General’s recommendation. We take this very seriously. That’s nearing completion and will be ready for discussion with our educational partners. As you know, we have to

work with the school boards and the college and so forth. We’re hoping that it will be ready for implementation in 2013-2014. Obviously, there will be some integration with the CanNor, with the college, but we need to work it out with them. We need to work side by side. That’s the information that I currently have right now.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

I appreciate those comments. I’m glad to hear about the accountability framework that’s going to be in place. Let’s see, I did ask for one thing that I didn’t get and I can’t remember now what it was. Is there a matching requirement for the dollars? That’s the last one. Thank you.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mr. Chair, I completely forgot about that part. It’s federal funding. No, it’s not a matching funding with GNWT or the college. It’s just the funding that flows directly to the college to deliver or enhance the ALBE program that they currently have over a two-year period. Mahsi.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Mr. Chair, Aurora College obviously is the major player in delivering this. Are there other partners in the delivery of the ALBE? Does the department itself play a role or are there other partners? Thank you.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mr. Chair, there are other, whether they be the ASETS through the federal government, going to Aboriginal communities or leadership. There is a Labour Market Agreement that we have that train in those areas. ALBE covers a lot of areas. It is very generic even at the mine site. They provide training.

I keep on referring to training, but it is ALBE upgrades. That’s what is happening at the mine site and various areas in the Northwest Territories that deliver that. Community learning centres, friendship centres and other agencies are involved. Yes, there are more than just our department or the college that delivers ALBE. Mahsi.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Lafferty. Moving on with questions I have Ms. Bisaro.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I wanted to ask a couple of questions about ALBE as well. I noted from the Minister’s opening remarks that he said the department will action recommendations from the Adult Literacy and Basic Education review. I wondered if the Minister could elaborate on what recommendations will be acted on and what programs will be changed. Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Minister Lafferty.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. When I talk about the recommendations, ALBE review recommendations, again, we have to work with our Aboriginal partners. Obviously, the college plays a big role as well. When we talk about

community deliverance, we talk about the Literacy Council. They have been actively involved. We have seen great success in that area. Not only that, but there’s been five adult educators that have been added to Aurora College community learning centres, even through CanNor, so we are beginning to see results.

Again, accountability framework is part of the recommendations that will be before us in this House, but what I was referring to was the recommendation that came out of that and we are proceeding with that through our partnerships in delivering that. Mahsi.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

To the Minister, if some of this staffing is being paid for by CanNor money, what happens in two or three years’ time when the CanNor money is gone? Will we still have adult literacy staffing in our learning centres in our communities? Thank you.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mr. Chair, obviously we would like to see a longer term commitment from the feds. Right now it is only a two-year funding. Usually it is a five-year investment, so we will be knocking at their door, even building our relationship with the CanNor department. If the fund is depleting, then that’s an area that we need to start planning now, re-evaluating even before the two-year time span is up. How has it been? Is it working well? How can we reinvest in those areas? We do have some time to re-evaluate our stance at that point in time. At the same time, we are working with Aboriginal governments, as well, because they do have some funds. We have some funds. How can we match if that’s the case? We are just thinking long term. If it’s working well within the next two years, obviously we would like to see that continue. I would like to see the federal government continue their investment in this area. Mahsi.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Mr. Chair, thanks to the Minister. I wanted to ask, within this section there are two funds which I don’t know whether or not it’s included here. One of them is the Mine Training Society and the other one is Skills Canada. I can’t find, within this section, where either of those organizations’ contributions are listed. Can I get some clarification? Thank you.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mr. Chair, even though it’s not listed on here, we are contributing to both societies. Skills Canada, we contribute I believe $80,000 on an annual basis and we continue to do that. They have other sources of revenue, funding that is coming from other agencies, as well, or industries in partnership, so it goes beyond our $80,000. Even with Mine Training Society, I believe we contributed funds for them to continue while we work with the federal government to talk about the long-term strategy. We talk about pan-territorial approach as well. The Member is

correct; it may not be highlighted specifically, but we are contributing to both societies. Mahsi.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Mr. Chair, thanks to the Minister. That’s good to hear. Could I know how much is earmarked for the Mine Training Society in this next budget year and can I be pointed to which line item it’s under? Thank you.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mr. Chair, I’m trying to get the detailed information from my staff, but I don’t have it here with me. I can provide that to the Members.

Over the years, we have contributed. We are true partners along with ITI and other departments towards this Mine Training Society. We will provide the breakdown to Members. Mahsi.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Mr. Chair, to where these contributions would show up in the budget? Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. For that we’ll go to Mr. Devitt.

Paul Devitt

Mr. Chair, I don’t have that information with me.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Devitt. Minister Lafferty.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mr. Chair, we will have to find out where exactly it’s based at. I know for sure that we are contributing, but we will find out which category it’s on and we’ll provide that to the Members. Mahsi.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Ms. Bisaro.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Mr. Chair, I appreciate that commitment and I look forward to seeing the information.

My last question here has to do with a statement in the Minister’s remarks. It had to do with the Aurora College housing. We are closing down the unit. There are savings realized by PWS from closing the existing units. It then says that the savings from PWS will be used to fund a portion of the department’s main estimates. I found that very confusing. Could I get an explanation of what is going on here? Are we transferring money from PWS to Education or what? Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. For that we’ll go to Mr. Devitt.

Paul Devitt

Mr. Chair, the offset is in savings in Public Works. There is no transfer of funding, but there are savings from closing units, because the savings are in the fact the units won’t have to be maintained by Public Works once they’re closed. Thank you.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks. So I guess I have to read the sentence and ask for an explanation because I don’t understand. The Minister’s remarks said

savings realized by PWS from closing the existing units will be used to fund $469,000 of the $898,000 increase to the department’s main estimates. Is that maybe referencing PWS as opposed to ECE? Thank you.

Paul Devitt

That’s correct. The maintenance of the units is budgeted in Public Works. So that’s where the savings are realized. Thank you.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I’m done.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Committee, we do have another person on this page for questioning. However, we’re going to take a short break and return on page 10-23 after the break. Thank you.

---SHORT RECESS

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

I’d like to call Committee of the Whole back to order. Committee, we’re on page 10-23 and continuing on with questions we have Mr. Moses.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I’ll focus my questions on the management and program support that negotiates, and monitoring training and employment provisions in the socio-economic agreements. What’s allocated here is just over $2 million. I’d like to ask the Minister how that funding is distributed throughout the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Moses. For that we’ll go to Mr. Devitt.

Paul Devitt

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The management and program support is the regional offices or ECE service centres and as well as headquarters management, the director’s office is budgeted under the $2.041 million budget.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you. In light of some of the recent studies in regard to the skilled workforce and some industry not meeting the standards for not having a skilled workforce that are outlined in the socio-economic agreements, would the Minister, through the management and program support, look at seeking more funding to address this concern so that we get more of the skilled workforce for residents of the Northwest Territories to get trained so that they can actually enter into some of these jobs in the industry, but also be meeting some of the standards that we set out in these socio-economic agreements. Right now I feel that the funding that’s allocated to these regional offices isn’t able to meet those requirements. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Moses. Minister Lafferty.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. Through the SEMA agreement, Socio-Economic Monitoring Agreement, there are certain targets in place and with the three diamond mines there are some negotiations that are underway with the

potential industries that are coming on board. We have been behind a bit on the target itself. So through time we’ve developed an MOU to work with the three diamond mines. I can refer to the three diamond mines because we’ve been working actively with them and in 2008 we signed on. We’ve made some progress in that area where there’s been some training programs. The Mine Training Society that we work closely with and also Aboriginal organizations. We have funding available, as well, through the Labour Market Agreement and the Labour Market Development Agreement. Federal funding flowed through the GNWT into the communities. There is also an ASETS training program that is available through Aboriginal organizations via the federal government. There is money available, it’s just that we need to integrate and coordinate with various organizations that are out there because we need to get ready for Beaufort-Delta, Deh Cho, and also Sahtu. Those are a lot of activities happening there. There will be in the Beaufort-Delta. We want to have a trained workforce. That is an area that I’ve instructed my department to work closely with those organization groups. Mine Training Society is the one firm that we need to be prepared. We want to capture the target percentage. At this point it’s very difficult to achieve, let’s say, within the next couple of years, but on the long-term basis we want to achieve that.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

I’m thinking it’s the management support offices that negotiate with industry here, so, obviously, somewhere something is happening that there’s not enough dollars or not enough marketing or promotion to get our skilled labour force to get educated and get the training that they need.

These regional offices, I imagine they probably report to headquarters, but does the standing committee or SCEDI get reports from the regional offices on how dollars are being spent, and if they are being spent in the appropriate areas such as training, or is it just an office to fund an office for staff and forms but no dollars allocated for training?

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

That $2.041 million is strictly geared towards the PYs in the regions. That’s an area we will continue to monitor through our department. With the training, that is additional funding that we provide through our Education, Culture and Employment department on to the Aboriginal groups or agencies or those firms that are willing to work with us to initiate a training program, such as HEO or underground training, such as the Mine Training Society. We are actively partners in those areas and we have the funding to provide that. The Mine Training Society has the funding to provide that as well. We’ve been successful to date in those areas. We feel that we need to do more. We need to prepare for those three regions that I highlighted earlier. Not only that but there is Fortune Minerals and others that are

coming on stream. The $2.41 million is strictly for PYs in the regions.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

In terms of these regional offices and the management and administrative support, do they have a database of individuals or beneficiaries who have training or a certain type of training, so that when our industry is looking for a particular job they can go to the database and say we have X, Y and Z employees that have this type of training, let’s contact them and get them over to put in an application to get the training? Do these regional offices have a database for our skilled workforce?

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

I do believe they do. There are steering committees in place to deal with industry’s needs and also community needs based on their assessment. Through various agencies we’ve been working with as a department they have produced data on individuals that were trained, what year they were trained, and how many are available to work and so forth. We do have that information available through our department and our regional representatives.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Just in terms of the management program support, I was looking on the website and I couldn’t find any links to the specific program under the advanced education. Is there somewhere we can get more information? Where are the regional offices located in the Northwest Territories?

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

With representatives at the regional level I believe we cover all five regions. Other communities, as well, beyond the five regions. We can provide some detailed information on the data itself and where individuals can collect that information via if it’s not on the website where it is at. We will find that out from the regional perspective and from our department.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Page 10-23, Education, Culture and Employment, activity summary, advanced education, operations expenditure summary, $48.727 million.

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Page 10-24, Education, Culture and Employment, activity summary, advanced education, grants and contributions, contributions, $35.349 million. Ms. Bisaro.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I need to ask here under this small community employment contribution, it’s gone down significantly from $339,000 to $160,000. Can I ask why?

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. For that we’ll go to Ms. Eggenhofer.

Eggenhofer

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The amount has been reduced because $400,000

will be re-profiled from the Small Communities Employment Support Program to the Aboriginal Languages Secretariat to hire three regional language coordinators in Fort McPherson, Deline and Fort Providence.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks for the information. So this Small Community Employment Fund, my understanding is that was established by one of the special committees during the 16th Assembly and I

think this committee was revived in the 17th . Was

this re-profiling of this $400,000 something that the Rural and Remote committee was aware of? Were they consulted before the decision was made to re-profile the money?

Eggenhofer

I’m not entirely certain how much information was provided to the committee in advance of the decision being taken, but I do recall it was in the business plan last fall and it was identified there as moving the $400,000. I think at the time the rationale for targeting the $400,000 was that the program wasn’t fully subscribed at the time and there was an opportunity to also access the Labour Market Development Agreement and Labour Market Agreement for funding to hire people in the summer. I think that was the reason for looking at that program to render the $400,000.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

That’s good.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Page 10-24, Education, Culture and Employment, activity summary, advanced education, grants and contributions, contributions, $35.349 million.

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Page 10-25, Education, Culture and Employment, information item, advanced education, active positions.

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Page 10-27, Education, Culture and Employment, activity summary, income security, operations expenditure summary, $41.591 million. Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I guess I wanted to say this is a very important program. There are many people throughout the North who need government support because of their personal situations. This division plays a big role. However, based on feedback from constituents and listening to other colleagues, there are still some major issues here. Dignity is still missing in the treatment of income assistance clients on a too frequent basis. I’m not saying all the time, but more than it should be. People, frankly speaking, are treated like they are dirt. This is totally unacceptable. I know it’s unacceptable to the Minister. Our workers are consistently losing client paperwork on a monthly basis to where clients not only have to come in and re-establish it, but they have to learn to photocopy everything, which is not

always an easy thing unless you happen to have a photocopier in your house or some piece of equipment that will serve, and that’s not typically true of many of our income support security clients. Often they have to go back to original sources such as the fuel distributor, the utility, their landlord to get original receipts because of this lost paperwork. Unnecessarily requesting a person is present when there are mobility issues, which engenders expensive taxi rides.

These are some of the issues that I consistently come up with or hear from clients about. I know the Minister has heard these sorts of things and knows what I’m talking about here.

Does this budget include or is the Minister planning a way to really try and make progress on this? I think many of our workers get into the business out of social concerns themselves, and yet somehow, after a period of time, their behaviour changes. Does the Minister see any way to deal with this situation?

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Mr. Lafferty.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. I feel the frustration of the Member and I do get those requests as well. As you know, we are going through some changes and recommendations being brought forward from the office of the Auditor General. That gives us an opportunity to improve our programs. As you know, these are regulations that we follow. It’s part of the Auditor’s report that we have to be stringent and follow our policies in place. There are some areas that we can be somewhat flexible and I’ve instructed my department, when it comes to professionalism, we need to treat everybody with respect.

We’ve conducted, I believe, a couple of workshops and training for CSOs, client service officers. We know it’s a high-demand position. We know it’s a very stressful position to be in. We provide support as best as we can as a department. There are times where one individual is working on a caseload of 30 or 40 at times. It’s a high demand, high stress area. Sometimes they lose their cool but at the same time we remind them they have to be courteous, they have to be professional in the work environment. Due to that, there has been some improvement to ensure those are consistently followed through.

Members have shared their concerns with me and I did follow through with my department to provide training. We’ll continue to do that. This is an area that I am fully familiar with, and again, working within the office of the Auditor General, they reviewed our income support file, as well, and that will be before us soon.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thanks to the Minister. I appreciate his comments there. I appreciate the focus he’s bringing to this, and I urge him not to stop or slow down. There are issues remaining out there, and I want to acknowledge that not all income assistance officers are like this. I do acknowledge that there are undoubtedly some people taking advantage of the system and that must be very frustrating, but we shouldn’t be making the people that really need our help – for whatever reason, it’s real – they shouldn’t be paying the price here. Thanks to the Minister for that, and I’ll look forward to more on that.

Just one last one. I see utilities have stayed the same as last year. I know the Minister is aware that electricity rates have gone up 7 percent this year and will over the next two years, with another 5 percent the year after that. Obviously, there’s a question here. I think we’ve heard about gasoline rates in Yellowknife and so on and elsewhere in the North. Is there a policy to try and adjust utilities here? Are we talking utilities for income support?

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. For that we’ll go to Mr. Devitt.

Paul Devitt

Mr. Chair, when we did the budget, we looked at actual expenditures and found that there was sufficient flexibility in the budget to cover the higher costs of fuel that the Member mentioned.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

That’s great news. What would have happened last year with the extra dollars budgeted for utilities? How would they be reallocated? What’s the process there?

Paul Devitt

Mr. Chair, when we look at our variance reports, usually we’ll see some expenditure areas that are higher than budget, some that are lower, and we’ll manage across the department. So we don’t necessarily reallocate funds.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

That sounds logical. What would it be called? A transfer of funds. Is that different than reallocation?

Paul Devitt

Mr. Chair, if there was a change in the budget, it would be done through a transfer. That’s correct.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

That’s it, Mr. Chair. Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Moving on with questions I have Ms. Bisaro.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to, at the outset, say that I echo Mr. Bromley’s comments. I think the Minister has heard me say a number of times that I’ve encountered constituents who have had great difficulties with income support. It is an area that is difficult, and I appreciate that it’s a difficult area for the department to staff and to keep trained up.

But it’s such an important area, and I give credit to Mr. Bromley’s request for dignity for everybody who has to go there. I think lots of times that’s not what comes first when people are going to income support. It’s not what they feel when they first go there, so I would urge the Minister to do everything he can to try and change some of that culture within this part of his department.

Knowing that there are so many difficulties with income support, I’d like to know from the Minister whether or not there is any contemplation of a review of the income support programs.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Minister Lafferty.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. The office of the Auditor General conducted a performance audit of income security just recently, spanning from April 2009 to September 2012. There has been a review, I guess, from outside, highlighting various aspects within the income security framework. The last changes we made were in 2007 after a review of our income security, so we’re just waiting for the outcome of the office of the Auditor General, what the outcome would be, and then we have to follow through with that. We’re just waiting for that, and proceeding once we get that information.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

That’s good to hear. The Auditor General, in my experience, always does a grand job of providing excellent recommendations.

As the department underwent this review with the Auditor General’s office, I know that people usually discover things as they have somebody who’s poring over their books and their programs and so on. So does the Minister have anything at this point where he can say that, yes, there were some areas where they already know that there are deficiencies and that they will be looking at trying to correct?

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

I can’t really speak specifics to the recommendations that will be coming down. I believe it will be tabled this week. So we’re just waiting, and I guess we’ll stay tuned until it’s tabled. Then from there the detailed information will come out. In due time, we’ll have to follow through with their recommendations. It is before the office of the Auditor General, so I really can’t speak to it at this point.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

I wasn’t asking for the Auditor General’s recommendations. Normally, when somebody is looking at things and you are looking at what they are looking at, oftentimes things jump out at you. I just wondered whether or not the department had, at this point, recognized that they have some deficiencies on their own without the Auditor General having to tell them that.

I wanted to ask a question with regard to the amount of money at the bottom of page 10-27 that talks to program delivery details. The amount of

money for income assistance programs actually is going down this year, ’13-14, as compared to the current fiscal year. We’re in a situation where we’re in a fairly large economic downturn. The trend that I’m aware of is that the requirement for income assistance and the number of people using income assistance has been going up as opposed to staying steady or going down.

Does this amount of money staying steady, actually going down just a bit, does that indicate that there’s been a change in that trend? Or is it simply are we kind of on a wish and a prayer that things aren’t going to change and that we’ll need more money?

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mr. Chair, I am trying to get more detailed information from my staff here. There has been some fluctuation in, of course, income support throughout the Northwest Territories, and we’re trying to reflect on that where if there’s an increase in funding. We realize that some of the regions are lacking, let’s say, job opportunities, so there’s been an increase in caseload in those areas. But at the same time, there are other regions that their caseload has decreased, so it balances each other. Obviously, we like to see caseloads go down.

In due time, where the economic booming is happening in the Deh Cho, Sahtu, or Beaufort-Delta, I’m hoping to see the income security funding go down a bit. That should be the overall target for this government. Slowly it’s happening. Maybe if my director has some detailed information pertaining to that, if we can allow him.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Lafferty. Mr. Devitt.

Paul Devitt

Mr. Chair, we monitor the income assistance monthly expenditures carefully, as we do with all of our demand-based programs. As the Member will see, the budget remains above actuals from 2011-12, so we did our budget. We felt, at that time, that there was sufficient money in the budget to cover it, but we continue each year to monitor the expenditures in this area very closely. Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Devitt. Ms. Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. It’s one thing to monitor the expenditures but I would hope that we’re also looking at providing cost of living increases in some of the amounts of dollars that we give out to our income support clients. Certainly, their expenses go up and everybody’s are always going up. Does this figure in the budget include an adjustment for cost of living increases? Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Minister Lafferty.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. It does capture some of those comments that the Member is referring to, whether it be fuel costs

going up and food costs going up. So we’ve been monitoring that. If there is an increase in those areas, then obviously there is an increase in our budget as well. We will continue to monitor it. If there needs to be changes to the budget, then we will be before standing committee to reflect those high costs of living.

In 2007, again, we have increased our funding based on communities’ needs and high cost of living and so forth. We continue to do that. Based on the outcome of this Auditor General’s report, we may have to make some changes again. We are just waiting for that report to come out. Mahsi, Mr. Chair.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Mr. Chair, I wanted to ask a question, as well, in this section under the Student Financial Assistance funding. I note that it goes up almost $2 million between the revised estimates and the main estimates for this year. I think the House approved an increase in funding for Student Financial Assistance because we’re getting more students asking for assistance, which is a good thing. It means more kids are going off to post-secondary. Does this increase in funding allow for students taking upgrades to get student financial assistance from the department? Thank you.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mr. Chair, this was also addressed in this House. SFA is a basic supplementary grant to students that are entering post-secondary. It is directly for post-secondary. It’s not for upgrading, but there are access programs that individuals can access towards their… Whether it be a diploma or degree program, they would be eligible for funding partially. Those are just some of the areas. We do have other subsidies available as well.

Again, going back to our federal funding, Labour Market, areas where we funded students in the past, there is also funding available through Aboriginal governments, the scholarships and so forth. To answer Ms. Bisaro, the upgrading is not covered through Student Financial Assistance because it is strictly for post-secondary. Mahsi.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Ms. Bisaro, your time is up. If you have any questions, let me know. I can put you back on the list. Moving on with questions on 10-27 I have Mr. Moses.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have just a really quick question in regard to Productive Choices. When was this program initiated? When was it implemented? How successful has the Productive Choices Program been since the department initiated and implemented it? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Moses. Minister Lafferty.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. The Productive Choices I believe has been in the running since just over 10 years. There have been some ups and downs with that, but it was built so that there can be positive choices in the communities working with the organizations so that individuals can be prepared to enter the workforce. Again, some experience, the life skills and employment experiences. In my view, it has been very successful. At the same time, we always look for improvements, enhancement to the programming. There are ways where individual Members have approached me to say why couldn’t we locate in those areas where maybe they can get some wood or fish for the elders and so forth. It’s organizations that we have to work with. We have a list of organizations. We always add to them as well. The Member did approach us earlier, as well, where there is limited capacity in the community when it comes to organizations. How can we effectively make it work in the communities? Those are areas that we are continuously monitoring and making changes. Mahsi, Mr. Chair.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Can the Minister just maybe confirm or give us input on whether or not Income Support has the Income Support dollars and if applications have gone up over the last 10 years?

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mr. Chair, I’m not sure we have that information here at this point, but we can certainly provide it. Actually, I do have some information that we will provide to the Members as well. Since 2007 it’s roughly 2,800 cases. In 2008 it increased a bit. In 2009 it increased. It has been gradually increasing over time. From 2007-2008 it was 2,800 roughly. In 2011-2012 it was just over 3,000. There has been some incremental increase. We will provide that to the Members.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Mr. Chair, maybe just a question here in terms of the Productive Choices Program itself. Has that program ever been reviewed and taken maybe a harder stance in terms of what type of choices would be guaranteed in terms of receiving your income support, such as job applications or resume upgrades on a timely basis? Say instead of somebody going and shovelling snow and getting their income every year, that they come and they show that their resume and cover letter has been upgraded every three months, or else either they have a letter of support from a business for a job or that they have applied on a few different jobs looking at trying to get back into the workforce.

Right now we do have some… As he mentioned earlier, there are some people that know how to play the system and it actually affects those people who are actually trying to continue on income assistance but they can’t get into any voluntary positions because all of the voluntary positions are being taken up by everybody that is already doing

the productive choices and taking that voluntary sector, taking all of those voluntary positions away. Has the Productive Choices been reviewed? Would the Minister be willing to review it and come up with a more comprehensive plan to add some of those suggestions that I had made such as updating resumes, job applications, those kinds of things? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mr. Chair, the Productive Choices, we obviously review it on an annual basis. We made a lot of changes in that area, adding to what kind of chores that those individuals should be doing, individual meaning without dependents, and with dependents and so forth. We will continue to make those changes. I am always on the look-out to regional representatives and also Aboriginal organizations and even from Members. What kind of improvements should we be making and in what areas? If there’s an area that the Member just referred to, resume writing or updating, definitely we’ll take those into consideration. I’d like to make changes where it benefits the communities, and part of the regulation is we have to provide some accountability and oversight.

As you know, the Auditor General is looking at our books at every opportunity for the last four or five years. So we have to be very careful on how we handle this. Productive Choices, yes, it’s always open for changes. Mahsi.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Just a final comment, but when I was reviewing the Budget Dialogue 2012, Living Within Our Means, there was a lot of suggestions there in terms of personal responsibility, and I think Productive Choices could take that first step in helping our residents of the Northwest Territories learn, give them life skills, give them the information that can start helping them make those productive choices and start taking on some of that personal responsibility to become part of society and help in that way, rather than just having some residents depend on government. As it was stated in the budget dialogue, it was heard quite a few times, actually. Just more a comment and I look forward to possibly being of some assistance in reviewing these productive choices and giving some of my insight and some feedback. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Moses. I know the Minister took notes down for that. Good point. Moving on with questions on 10-27 I have Mr. Blake.

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just have a question under the seniors home heating subsidy. I’d like to ask the Minister if the department has been doing any plans to actually increase the amount elders could make. I’m getting a number of concerns from the communities I represent. As you know, the cost of living is almost double up in the Mackenzie Delta riding, and for five gallons of gas

it’s between $40 and $50. We have elders that like to go out on the land and also to buy groceries. It’s double what we pay here in Yellowknife. I’d like to ask the department, are they planning to increase the amount elders make and still be eligible for the seniors home heating subsidy. Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Blake. For that we’ll go to Minister Lafferty.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. This is an area that we’ve been tackling for quite some time now. When it comes to subsidizing the seniors fuel subsidy, that’s one area that I’d like to see some changes. The Members have raised that issue in the House already, that their kids or grandchildren are living with them and how we’re still penalizing the seniors. So I instructed my department to look at options and I believe we’re at the final stages of looking at those options, and I want to move forward to present to standing committee and that will make some changes to how we subsidize the seniors fuel subsidy, which will benefit the seniors, obviously. That’s my goal. It will be before standing committee soon enough.

With the high cost of living that’s an area that, again, we’ve been exploring. With the fuel, it’s based on the litres or a cord of wood and so forth. So what the Member is referring to, of course, is the small communities and the high cost of living. So it does reflect on that, as well, but any increases we monitor and make changes along the way like we did in 2007, and if there are changes coming, then it will be reflected on our budget. I will be before standing committee. Mahsi.

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. I’d just like to ask the Minister, will we see those changes this year. Thank you.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

I, like the Member, so direct. I knew that was coming. Currently, we are going through the ‘13-14 budget. As I stated, the options are coming. They should be on my way to my office soon enough. Unfortunately, one of our senior staff is on personal leave right now and I’ve instructed him to do a bit more in-depth work in this area.

Within a few weeks I’d like to see those options and I want to make those changes as part of the next business planning cycle. So because it’s not before me yet, I can’t really make a commitment within this budget, but I’d like to make those changes in the next few months. Mahsi.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Lafferty. Committee, 10-27. Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just one quick question. I understand the Auditor General report may be out soon, in the next week or so. What will be the lag time for when we see it or do we all see it at the same time? Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Lafferty.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. It gets tabled, I believe, this coming Thursday in this House. So Members will have the opportunity.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Again, committee, 10-27, Education, Culture and Employment, activity summary, income security, operations expenditure summary, $41.591 million. Does committee agree?

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Page 10-28, Education, Culture and Employment, activity summary, income security, grants and contributions, grants, $11.136 million.

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Page 10-29, Education, Culture and Employment, information item, income security, active positions.

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Page10-30, Education, Culture and Employment, information item, Student Loan Revolving Fund. Any questions?

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Okay, 10-33, Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. If I could get an update here, I note that Yellowknife District Education Authority No. 1includes funding for K’alemi Dene School in Ndilo and I know the Minister is well aware that they’re looking for their own educational authority. Actually, they have their own, but it’s sort of been on hold and they agreed for some period of time to be under the umbrella of the Yellowknife District No. 1 and now they’re striving to be on their own. Will that be happening this fiscal year? Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Lafferty.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. This is an area we’ve been exploring for quite some time now with the Ndilo K’alemi Dene School, the DEA and so forth. So the Member is asking if it’s going to be part of this year’s budget. My staff is telling me yes.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

That was my basic question. I appreciate that straightforward answer, that’s good to hear. Will it be as straightforward for carving out the budget from YK1 for this DEA or are we anticipating that to be a challenge and what are the issues? Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. For that we’ll go to Mr. Devitt.

Paul Devitt

Mr. Chair, the budget for Ndilo is already separated. They’re contracting with school district 1. So I don’t believe that will be an issue. Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Devitt. Moving on with questions on 10-33 we have Ms. Bisaro.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I wanted to ask a question with regard to the numbers on this page. We see funded positions from ‘12-13 and ‘13-14 go down 23 positions. My first question would be do we have a corresponding reduction in student enrolments. Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. For that we’ll go to Mr. Lafferty.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. I’m trying to find that information here. The information we have, of course, is based on projection and the enrolment, if it goes down, reflects on the actual budget. Unless my director has more detailed information that he can follow up on.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Mr. Devitt.

Paul Devitt

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As the Minister mentioned, this particular information item, because of when it was done, is based on projections. I believe the projects were for about a little more than a 2 percent decrease in enrolments. Enrolments have actually gone down about, I think very close, but about 1.7 percent and we’re just completing the actual contribution calculations for next year now. The amounts here are fairly close but enrolments have actually gone down 1.7 percent as opposed to just over 2 percent as projected.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Devitt. Ms. Bisaro.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks for the information. So if our enrolments have gone down, I note that the total funding to schools has actually gone up by about $1 million. If enrolments are down, we have fewer staff from one year to the next, why is the budget going up?

Paul Devitt

There are actually Collective Agreement increases that cover, actually, two school years because there’s some from the past agreement for northern allowance and then the new agreement. There are also some other increases associated with growth in other areas such as cost.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you to Mr. Devitt for that information. Just one last question. This is almost $150 million that we are allocating to our education authorities. We turn this money over to them, and I think the Minister’s referenced it a bit previously, but what do we ask of the authorities to have them justify to the department that they’re spending the

money the way we think they should be spending it?

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Mr. Lafferty.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. Obviously, there has to be a financial accountability. On an annual basis we receive financial statements from them. I believe it’s audited financial statements from them on an annual basis. That clarifies where expenditures happen and in what areas and so forth, staff, administration, the schools, student programming, all of that. That’s how they base it on annual expenditures, through audited financial statements.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks to the Minister. That accounts for, sort of, the actual money that they’re spending, but they’re spending the money to achieve certain results and standards, I would hope.

I would like to know from the Minister, he’s heard a lot from Members about the inequality of graduating students, the level of education that students graduate with. I want to just ask this question because I often wonder about it. Who is responsible for the quality of the results in our K to 12 education? Is it the education authorities or is it the department?

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

The quickest answer would be everyone. We’re all responsible. We provide funding to the school boards. Even the parents and grandparents have to play a part. The school programming, there is an accountability framework that happens where my department and I work closely with the divisional boards to make it a success for the students. When we say who is responsible, I believe that we are also responsible. We have to make sure that the school boards are following the Education Act and the money that flows to them goes to the direct cause of student success. Those are just some of the areas that we closely monitor.

We have heard over and over about some students not successfully completing Grade 12. We have heard that. Due to that we are doing an education renewal that will capture the small community schools and professionalism, and also the systems. Even the student assessments are part of that. We are dealing with it. We are very serious. We want the education system in the NWT to be the best of the best. That is what we’re pushing for.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Page 10-33, Education, Culture and Employment, information item, details of funding allocated to education authorities.

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Page 10-34, Education, Culture and Employment, information

item, education authorities, active positions. Mr. Moses.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just one really quick question here. Something that I’ve noticed is the decrease in active positions for the Beaufort-Delta. There is a loss of seven positions here. I also see that is also a trend with the Deh Cho and Sahtu. Specifically for the Beaufort-Delta region, what positions are those and how will it affect the running of the organization?

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Moses. For that we’ll go to Mr. Devitt.

Paul Devitt

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The funding formula works on a regional basis, although we do look at community data. The reduction would happen at the regional basis and it would be up to the division education council to allocate that funding by community and school.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

So just for clarity, the Minister and staff today wouldn’t know what positions are going to be lost under this formula.

Paul Devitt

That’s correct.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Devitt. Page 10-34, Education, Culture and Employment, information item, education authorities, active positions.

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Page 10-37, Education, Culture and Employment, information item, Aurora College funding allocation, $32.075 million. Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Minister has heard committee talk about renewable energy programs, energy efficiency programs and the need to get them into Aurora College. We’ve talked about that for a number of years. I’m not aware of any yet. Maybe I can get an update from the Minister. The Minister also has said that in the interim, the renewable energy aspects and energy efficiency aspects could be built into existing programs such as for electricians or plumbers, these sorts of things. Perhaps the community administration programs and so on. Could I just get an update from the Minister on where we’re at towards getting those programs up and running?

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Mr. Lafferty.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. The Member has raised this issue on a few occasions and we forwarded that to the college. The college, as you know, delivers these specific core programs that are needed, based on the assessment that they have. They usually do their research and their survey, their studies, interviewing students or community members, and based on that, if there is a high need for renewable energy program, then they would pursue it.

At the same time, it is with the college. As you know, there have been some changes within senior staff at the college. I have re-delivered that to the new president and the chair, as well, so I’m sure it’s on the radar and I will be addressing it again when we meet. We usually meet on a quarterly basis. I will address it again to find out the status of it and if they’re foreseeing when it will be delivered, if the program is going to be delivered. I don’t have that information on the status before me but I will provide that to the Members.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thanks for the Minister’s commitment there. I know the Minister is aware, just from listening in the House, that there are many millions of dollars now just from the GNWT being spent in this area. It is a big project in Simpson, of course, but many other projects such as Diavik’s wind project and many community projects, and our new goal of getting 20 percent of all our thermal communities on solar or deriving their electricity from solar, biomass projects coming on stream quite commonly. Of course, the expertise is coming from the South. That’s the sad thing to me.

We’ve been talking about this for years, knowing that it’s coming, and it’s here and we have not been doing our work. I realize it’s Aurora College. We’re going to be talking about relationships with Aurora College and I will be participating in that discussion. It’s just kind of sad to me when we miss opportunities. I appreciate the Minister’s commitment to get an update there.

Just on the Business Admin Program, the interest to pushing to three years. Apparently we are, I think something like 87 percent of our students are having to go south for their final year. There is a big interest in getting it offered locally. I know the Minister is working on that. Is there an update available on that and when we might expect that to be implemented? Maybe it wasn’t 87 percent. It was 87 percent that had families and so their challenges for moving south for the last year of the program were very big. Just to make sure I’m giving accurate numbers there, as far as I recall.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

I agree with the Member and the students that brought that petition forward. There should be degree programming through business administration into our great campuses across the Northwest Territories. There is also the Social Work degree program that students wish to be delivered in the Northwest Territories. I just signed off a letter, I believe this morning, pertaining to that, that I would obviously like to deliver a Business Administration Degree Program. This has gone to the chair of the college Board of Governors. As soon as I hear and once we meet, then I can provide Members with the status.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Ms. Bisaro.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just wanted to ask a question with regard to the Early Childhood Development Program. Earlier in the budget when we were talking about the early childhood development and the money that we are spending in the budget, there was a $50,000 amount mentioned for Aurora College for the Early Childhood Development Certification Program. I know we have one now but it’s not a program which, I gather, provides certification which is recognized across Canada once people are done with that diploma. Could I get an explanation from the Minister on two things? What was the $50,000 intended for? Was it used? Have we changed our program? Will we be starting a new program in the fall of 2013?

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. For that we’ll go to Ms. Eggenhofer.

Eggenhofer

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, the $50,000 was used by the college to put together a fairly comprehensive discussion paper that looked at the pros and cons of offering the diploma program starting this fall. There were some challenges with offering the diploma program this fall, and they have developed a number of options that would range anywhere from going ahead with the diploma program in the college at quite a high cost of around $750,000, to, essentially, the status quo. But the funding was used to put the paper together.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks to the deputy minister. I’m struggling to understand why we would offer a program that doesn’t really provide us with the qualified people that we are looking for to run our early childhood development programs, so I’ll leave that as a statement. Can I be advised when the decision will be made whether or not to go ahead with a higher quality program in the fall?

Eggenhofer

I think we’re all waiting for the finalization of the renewed early childhood framework to get an idea of where the priority areas are. If one of the priority areas is to ensure that our licensed child care facilities have diploma-carrying staff, then we’ll be looking at that. The only caution, I would say, is there’s more than one way in getting diploma-carrying staff, and one way is to have a diploma program offered in the college. At the moment, there are actually eight NWT students who are on student financial assistance, who are enrolled in early childhood diploma programs in southern institutions as well.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

That’s good.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Committee, 10-37, Education, Culture and Employment, information item, Aurora College, funding allocation. Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Just one more follow-up on the early childhood development worker training at

Aurora College and where we might be going with that. Obviously, I think we want our people looking after our children, especially in early childhood where so much is happening, to be fully qualified, and of course, we would need to pay them as such. Now, I’ve heard concerns that we don’t want to train workers because we don’t want to be paying those salaries. This is obviously of great concern to me. I think probably everyone would agree our children are our number one resource here. Could I get the perspective of the department on that?

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Lafferty.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. This is a concern to me as well. It has been brought up through the stakeholders and most specifically with the seniors as well, the elders that we brought in, that they want to have qualified individuals coming back to our communities and working for fair wages looking after our children, similar to teachers. Those are areas that we are looking at as we speak, and even through the Early Childhood Development Framework, it does consist of a lot of entities and it will capture the wages. It has been a concern for a number of years now, and it’s been brought up here in the House, but we are following through with that.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thanks to the Minister. I wonder if the Minister would commit, just so we know what we’re talking about, if the Minister would commit to developing a briefing note, an information package on what we’re talking about here. If we were to upgrade all of our early childhood workers and their salaries, what would be the cost, in terms of the salaries, salary difference across the government for early childhood workers, just so we know what we’re dealing with and if we need to plan for it. I think that’s a good starting point. That would be great.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

We can provide that. We have a lot of information. We have done our research, our homework, even across the Northwest Territories, how much the individuals are making. It does vary from region to region and the most isolated communities versus the larger centres, so we can provide it as an information package to the Members for their review.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thanks to the Minister. Just to be clear, we would have both what we’re paying now and what we would be paying if these workers all met federal standards for early childhood workers so that we can compare. That’s probably what the Minister was saying, but I didn’t hear it exactly, so I just want to be sure we’re talking about the same thing.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

I think we’re talking along the same line, so I agree.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Lafferty. Committee, we’re on 10-37, Education, Culture and Employment, information item, Aurora College funding allocation. Any questions?

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Committee, 10-38 and 39, Education, Culture and Employment, information item, work performed on behalf of others. Any questions?

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Committee, if I can get you to return to 10-7, Education, Culture and Employment, department summary, operations expenditure summary, $299.611 million. Does committee agree?

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Does committee agree that consideration of the Department of Education, Culture and Employment is completed?

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, committee. I’d like to thank Mr. Devitt and Ms. Eggenhofer for tonight. Thank you to Minister Lafferty for being here. Sergeant-at-Arms, if I can get you to escort the witnesses out of the Chamber.

Committee, if I can direct your attention to, we’ll be starting with Transportation. With that, we’ll ask Minister Ramsay, do you have any opening comments?

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

I am pleased to be here today to present the Department of Transportation’s proposed main estimates for the 2013-2014 fiscal year. The department is requesting a total budget of $117 million, including amortization. This represents a net decrease of $3.4 million, or 2.8 percent, from the previous budget.

The net decrease in the Department of Transportation’s budget for 2013-2014 includes an increase to amortization expenses of $3.7 million, an increase for forced growth of $2.4 million, and a number of other adjustments with a net decrease of $7.2 million mainly associated with the Deh Cho Bridge coming into service.

The amortization increase of $3.7 million is a result of both the Deh Cho Bridge coming into service and an increase in the level of capital expenditures over the past several years. These assets have now come into service and accounting for their depreciation has begun.

The department’s forced growth increase of $2.4 million is provided to deal with the general inflationary increases to services and consumables required to maintain and operate the transportation network. The ongoing safe operation and maintenance of the transportation system is our highest priority, and these incremental resources

are essential to continue operating and maintaining the transportation system.

The November 2012 opening of the Deh Cho Bridge marked a celebratory occasion for Northerners who braved the biting cold to be among the first to drive or walk uninterrupted across the Mackenzie River for the first time in history. Opening the bridge means the Department of Transportation is no longer required to operate the Merv Hardie ferry or construct an annual ice crossing near Fort Providence, resulting in a reduction to expenses of $2.4 million annually. To operate the bridge requires a number of other expenditures, totaling $900,000, that include funding to maintain the bridge, operate and collect tolls, and for the community opportunity grant. In addition, as part of bringing the bridge into service, the debt service payments are being transferred to the Department of Finance, who will be responsible for managing this debt along with the rest of the GNWT debt portfolio.

I am very pleased that the department was able to bring this important asset into service, and look forward to the benefit that improved access will provide for business and industries in the NWT. As part of the project, the department is now collecting tolls for commercial vehicles utilizing the bridge. I can report that the process for collecting tolls is going very well. Commercial operators are able to pay by calling our Call Centre 24 hours per day, seven days a week. For those that wish to register with the department, we have also established a process to report and pay monthly for use of the bridge.

For 2013-2014 the department is projecting total revenue of $29.8 million, which represents an increase of $4.5 million from the previous fiscal year. The most significant increase to revenues is the tolls associated with the Deh Cho Bridge where we are projecting to collect $4 million in toll revenue.

The department is also proposing a number of other changes to revenue. This includes a requirement to incorporate existing service fees into the base rate for the various driver and vehicle licensing and permitting services that the department offers. There is no increase in the cost of the service for this change, but incorporating this change into the previously established revenue categories required a number of adjustments to the amounts reported in the various line items. In response to the Financial Management Board’s direction to review revenue sources, the department conducted a rigorous evaluation of fees charged by the road licensing and safety and airports divisions to ensure each is fair, equitable and reasonable. This budget proposes a number of adjustments to bring these fees up to date, with the

majority of the fee increases ranging from 15 to 20 percent.

Meeting the 17th Assembly’s priority of improving economic development opportunities hinges upon improvements in transportation infrastructure. The importance of cultivating the link between the transportation system and economic development prospects is now greater than ever. New developments within the mining industry such as a fourth diamond mine, the Prairie Creek Mine and the NICO project, highlight the need for additional transportation infrastructure investment so that our infrastructure and services can meet the demands of industry. The need for improvements to transportation infrastructure has been highlighted this past winter where the department’s regional operations in the Deh Cho and Sahtu are experiencing a marked increase in industrial traffic due to resource development. In anticipation of increased pressure on the winter road system, the department is working directly with industry to accelerate the construction of ice crossings, strengthen the road surface, and increase the level of service to extend the operating season to the latest possible date in the spring. The department is also working to improve safety by increasing the number of enforcement patrols on the winter road, developing a Mackenzie Valley Winter Road driving guide, and working with the oil and gas and trucking industry to ensure the safe movement of the heavy loads.

The magnitude of the oil and gas activity in the Mackenzie Valley reinforces the need for an all-weather highway. Formal planning for this highway has been underway for a number of years. Last month the department submitted the four regional project description reports, completed in partnership with the land claimant groups, and a project screening document to the Mackenzie Valley Environmental Review Board. To get the environmental review process underway, the department referred the project to environmental assessment. Much additional work is required to keep this project moving forward. The department has engaged the federal government in discussions on funding required to move the project through the environmental assessment process. To support this work, CanNor recently contributed $600,000 for the next stage of environmental and engineering study activities. The department signed a memorandum of understanding to create a partnership with the Gwich’in Development Corporation for stage 2 planning activities and a similar MOU is anticipated with the Tulita District Investment Corporation shortly.

The northern portion of the Mackenzie Valley Highway project, the highway from Inuvik to Tuktoyaktuk, has reached an important crossroad. The Environmental Impact Review Board issued its final report in January 2013, recommending the

project proceed subject to terms and conditions. The GNWT’s response to the report has been submitted for consideration to the federal government and we expect that formal environmental approval of the project will be issued shortly. The department has also recently completed the 85 percent design for the highway and used this information to prepare an updated cost estimate that reflects our northern construction realities, granular material sources, haul distances and design parameters. We are currently negotiating with the Inuvialuit Land Administration around royalties and land tenure with respect to the Inuvialuit Land Claim Agreement. The updated cost estimate of $299 million was sent to the federal government, and we are now seeking a firm commitment from Canada for an agreement on additional funding. The GNWT continues to emphasize the importance of knowing the federal commitment in advance of project approval decisions and anticipates a response shortly.

While I have highlighted some of the major new projects we are working on, I also wanted to share a few of the activities underway to address needs across the existing transportation system. The department is currently developing a Climate Change Adaptation Plan, Road Safety Plan, Green House Gas Strategy and Strategic Infrastructure Investment Plan that will be completed in 2013- 2014. The department is also investigating options to improve the existing Tlicho winter road and to connect Wekweeti to the public highway system in the future. These planning activities, along with the modal strategies already completed, will support the development of a multi-modal transportation strategy that will guide our path forward through the future. The development of the Transportation Strategy will also be informed by other GNWT-wide planning activities such as the NWT Economic Opportunities and NWT Mineral Development strategies currently under development.

These are the highlights of the Department of Transportation’s proposed main estimates for the 2013-2014 fiscal year. There are many other positive and exciting projects and initiatives that the department expects to accomplish. I am confident that the proposed budget will provide for the continued safe and reliable operation of the NWT transportation system. I would be happy to answer any questions. Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Ramsay. Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Mr. Chairman, I move that we report progress.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. There’s a motion on the floor to report progress. The motion is in order. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is at a tie. I will vote to defeat the motion.

---Defeated

Minister Ramsay, do you have witnesses you’d like to bring into the Chamber?

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Yes, Mr. Chairman.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Agreed?

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Sergeant-at-Arms, if you could bring the witnesses into the Chamber, please. Thank you.

Minister Ramsay, please introduce your witnesses for the record.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To my right is deputy minister of Transportation, Mr. Russell Neudorf and to my left is the assistant deputy minister of DOT, Mr. Daniel Auger.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Mr. Neudorf, Mr. Auger, welcome to the House. General comments. Ms. Bisaro.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Mr. Chair, I don’t believe we have a quorum.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

The Member has made reference to lack of a quorum, so I will ring the bells and commence in 15 minutes.

---Ringing of Bells

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

The bells have run for 15 minutes. As we do not have a quorum, I will now rise and report progress.

Report of Committee of the Whole
Report of Committee of the Whole

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Can I have the report of Committee of the Whole, Mr. Dolynny.

Report of Committee of the Whole
Report of Committee of the Whole

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, your committee has been considering Tabled Document 9-17(4), NWT Main Estimates, 2013-2014, and would like to report progress with one motion having been adopted and a loss of a quorum at 7:58 p.m. Thank you.

Report of Committee of the Whole
Report of Committee of the Whole

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Mr. Clerk, can you take note of those Members present in the Chamber?

Report of Committee of the Whole
Report of Committee of the Whole

Tim Mercer Clerk Of The House

Mr. Dolynny, Mr. Beaulieu, Mr. Abernethy, Mr. Miltenberger, Mr. Lafferty, Mr. Ramsay, Mr. McLeod – Inuvik Twin Lakes.

Report of Committee of the Whole
Report of Committee of the Whole

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Clerk. Item 22, third reading of bills. Mr. Clerk, orders of the day.

Orders of the Day
Orders of the Day

Tim Mercer Clerk Of The House

Orders of the day for Tuesday, March 5, 2013, 1:30 p.m.:

1. Prayer

2. Ministers'

Statements

3. Members'

Statements

4. Returns to Oral Questions

5. Recognitions of Visitors in the Gallery

6. Acknowledgements

7. Oral

Questions

8. Written

Questions

9. Returns to Written Questions

10. Replies to Opening Address

11. Petitions

12. Reports of Standing and Special Committees

13. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills

14. Tabling of Documents

15. Notices of Motion

16. Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills

17. Motions

18. First Reading of Bills

19. Second Reading of Bills

- Bill 3, Wildlife Act

20. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of

Bills and Other Matters

- Tabled Document 9-17(4), NWT Main

Estimates, 2013-2014

- Bill 1, Tlicho Statutes Amendment Act

21. Report of Committee of the Whole

22. Third Reading of Bills

23. Orders of the Day

Orders of the Day
Orders of the Day

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Accordingly, this House stands adjourned until Tuesday, March 5th , at 1:30 p.m.

---ADJOURNMENT

The House adjourned at 8:14 p.m.