Good afternoon, colleagues. Before we get started today, I will provide my ruling on the point of order raised by Mr. Abernethy yesterday, June 5, 2013, regarding comments made by Mr. Dolynny which were perceived to impute false or hidden motives and were viewed as allegations against Mr. Abernethy. As Members are aware, a point of order must be raised at the earliest opportunity and I find that Mr. Abernethy did, in fact, raise the point of order at the earliest opportunity.

I have now had the opportunity to review the unedited transcripts from yesterday and wish to bring focus to the remarks which gave rise to the point of order.

Mr. Dolynny, in speaking about the new downtown Yellowknife office building, expressed concerns about responses he had received from the Minister's office to requests for information pertaining to the terms and conditions of the construction contract. Mr. Dolynny indicated his ‘shock' at finding, “the department wanted to charge me $1,477.75 to photocopy a whopping 1,992 pages of documents.” He then went on to describe this as, “nothing more than a document dump and a ridiculous charge to ward off a Member of this government the right to get answers to simple questions and to protect the public purse.” He also coloured this response as a “recurrent theme” which he sees “all too often.” He went on to state: “It almost appears that this government has a history of document dumping and fee shock to scare off would-be inquiries,” and, “now appears to be the tactics used on an elected Member of this House.” It was shortly after these remarks that Mr. Abernethy rose on his point of order.

Mr. Abernethy's point was that Mr. Dolynny, by questioning the responses received from the department, was directly questioning his motives with regard to the capital project under discussion

and the process to be adhered to in requesting information relative to the project. I will quote Mr. Abernethy in stating his point of order found on page 13 of the unedited Hansard for Wednesday, June 5, 2013: “...the Member for Range Lake has suggested that we are impeding his ability to get detailed information to do his job.” He went on to say: “...the Member is suggesting that we are intentionally trying to keep information from him, which is not the case.”

In reviewing these comments, I examined closely the rules cited by Mr. Abernethy in his point of order, and in doing so, I considered the following questions: Did Mr. Dolynny make an allegation against Mr. Abernethy? Did he impute false or hidden motives to him?

I find the answers to both of these questions is, clearly, no. Mr. Dolynny made no direct allegations against Mr. Abernethy. I also fail to see where the comments imputed a false or hidden motive to him. I do not find that Mr. Dolynny's remarks were directed specifically at Mr. Abernethy, nor do I find they questioned Mr. Abernethy's personal integrity, honesty or character. Therefore, I find there is no point of order.

I wish to thank all Members who offered their views on the point of order. I particularly appreciate the respectful and balanced tone of the discussion. Thank you, Members.

Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Minister responsible for social programs.

Mr. Speaker, our government is committed to this Assembly's goal of helping our residents become and stay healthy, educated people free from poverty. A strong territory needs a strong society. All residents of the NWT should have the chance to enjoy the benefits of living in a prosperous, well-governed territory and to participate fully in a healthy, just society.

This is why the Premier committed last year to the development of an Anti-Poverty Strategy. At the appropriate time today, I will table the Strategic Framework towards the Elimination of Poverty in the NWT. This framework has been developed in partnership with the No Place for Poverty Coalition, representatives from the business sector, as well as Aboriginal and community governments.

I want to acknowledge the efforts of the many partners on the steering committee who devoted countless hours over the past year to this important work. Not only is the framework an excellent document and a roadmap for the future, it is also a testament to what we can achieve by working in collaboration.

Mr. Speaker, poverty is complex, and to tackle this issue requires action on many fronts. Our government's priorities all work together to address poverty. A thriving economy gives residents the chance to support themselves and their families. Healthy, educated people are better able to take advantage of economic opportunities.

The framework reflects this complexity and targets five priority areas for tackling poverty in the NWT. These include a focus on children and families, healthy living, safe and affordable housing, sustainable communities and better integration of services. Our government is already taking action in many of these areas. In this session alone we have heard about our commitments to renew the Early Childhood Development Framework, develop an Economic Opportunities Strategy, improve our relationships with Aboriginal governments, and address mental health and addictions in our communities. This work has a common thread. It is all part of our work to achieve our vision of a poverty-free NWT.

Now that the strategic framework is complete, it's time to focus on actions.

Over the summer Ministers will work together to develop action plans to coordinate responses to this and the other frameworks and strategies that have recently been tabled. I will encourage other stakeholder organizations to do the same. As plans are developed, I will host a symposium in the fall so we can all talk about what we want to do and how we might work together.

There is a role for everyone in our efforts to create a poverty-free NWT, and I look forward to new partnerships that will have long-term benefits for all of our people. By working together, we can make progress on our shared priorities. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. The honourable Minister of Transportation, Mr. Ramsay.

Mr. Speaker, achieving our government's vision of a strong, prosperous territory requires that adequate supporting infrastructure, such as the transportation system, is in place to effectively link communities to opportunities for social growth and economic prosperity.

The Department of Transportation has made significant improvements to the transportation system over the last 10 years through partnerships with the federal government under the Canada Strategic Infrastructure Fund and the Building Canada Plan. Through these partnership agreements, the GNWT and federal government have invested more than $330 million in transportation infrastructure. These investments were guided by two funding proposals, Corridors for Canada I and Corridors for Canada II, submitted to the federal government under each of these federal funding programs.

Mr. Speaker, in March 2013, Canada announced details of its new infrastructure investment strategy under Canada's Economic Action Plan. This new federal funding program includes a new Building Canada Fund, with $14 billion investments allocated over the next 10 years.

This new fund will provide our territory with an opportunity to continue the transportation system improvements accomplished through the previous infrastructure funding programs that are now coming to a close.

Mr. Speaker, later today, at the appropriate time, I will be pleased to table the Corridors for Canada III - Building for Prosperity, the Department of Transportation's strategic funding proposal that will be submitted for consideration under the new Building Canada Fund. The proposal includes a $600 million investment over 10 years to improve our winter roads, highways, bridges, marine and airport infrastructure.

Corridors for Canada III is an action plan that addresses transportation infrastructure needs across all regions of the Northwest Territories.

These investments are proposed under the two separate components of the new Building Canada Fund: the $10 billion Provincial-Territorial Infrastructure Fund and the $4 billion National Infrastructure Fund.

We are proposing to invest $415 million over 10 years under the provincial-territorial base funding program. Investment is proposed for reconstruction, grade and safety improvements on all of our eight public highways and the Detah access road, bridge rehabilitation and replacement, a new air terminal building in Inuvik, and upgrades to our ferry landings.

We are also proposing an investment of $185 million over 10 years under the second component of the Building Canada Fund, called the National Infrastructure Fund, a merit-based investment program that targets projects of national significance. Projects proposed under this fund address the next steps to advance the Mackenzie Valley Highway, enable economic development and help the transportation system adapt to climate change.

Mr. Speaker, the Government of Canada recognizes the Mackenzie Valley Highway as a project of national significance that will improve industry access to energy resources and lead to prosperity and economic benefits spread across the country. The future completion of an all-weather Mackenzie Valley Highway is also a priority of this government.

The Mackenzie Valley Highway investments proposed include completing the highway's environmental assessment, constructing bridges including the Bear River Bridge, and a new segment of winter road linking Fort Good Hope to the Dempster Highway. Grade improvements along the existing alignment will also bring us closer to the future completion of the all-weather highway.

This government is taking a balanced approach that will help us grow our economy, support our people and manage our environment responsibly. Corridors for Canada III is an important part of that approach. The objective of our infrastructure funding proposal is to continue working with Canada to address our transportation infrastructure priorities that lead to jobs, economic growth, and prosperous communities in the Northwest Territories. We will promote this proposal to the federal government this summer, and I will report back on our success during the fall session. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Honourable Premier, Mr. McLeod.

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to update the people of the Northwest Territories about the Government of the Northwest Territories Land Use and Sustainability Framework.

A healthy, well-managed environment sustains all of our people and is the foundation for a healthy life. The land nourishes us and is the driving force of our economy. Following our historic debate and vote on the devolution motion yesterday, we will have enhanced decision-making power to manage land, develop the economy, and protect the environment. A Land Use and Sustainability Framework will guide the Government of the Northwest Territories in making land management decisions and it will provide transparency and consistency to the interests that we bring when working with Aboriginal governments and other land partners.

Over the past year we have been discussing land management with residents and stakeholders. Last July we distributed Land is Life, a discussion paper that laid out our vision, interests and principles for making land management decisions on behalf of residents of the Northwest Territories.

Mr. Speaker, later today I will table What We Heard About...Land is Life. We heard that people are comfortable with our vision and principles for land use. We heard about the need to balance conservation and economic development and we heard about the need to work together.

The Government of the Northwest Territories is one partner in an integrated land management system. The Devolution Agreement contains provisions for intergovernmental coordination and collaboration on lands and resources management. The land is our life and the source of our wealth and well-being.

Healthy people depend on a healthy environment, and our natural resources have the potential to transform our economy, creating jobs and opportunities for all.

While the operating environment is still unfolding and the framework is not yet finalized, we have been hard at work. Sustainability is much broader than the physical landscape, it must consider water, wildlife, land, energy, renewable and non-renewable resources. We have completed a Water Stewardship Strategy. We have undertaken significant discussion and engagement on energy planning, economic opportunities and mineral development in the Northwest Territories, and standing committee consultations are currently underway on a proposed new Wildlife Act.

All of these are connected under the broad vision of the Land Use and Sustainability Framework. The values and operating principles of the framework build on our Sustainability Development Policy and provide guidance to other strategies that will affect how our land and resources are used. All of these are critical in achieving the vision of the 17^th Assembly. Working together, we will responsibly and sustainably manage the lands, waters and natural resources of the Northwest Territories for the benefit of current and future generations.

We have reached consensus on a Devolution Final Agreement with an effective date of April 1, 2014. The Government of the Northwest Territories needs to be well prepared for that change and is setting out an appropriate land management framework that will encourage and support northern leadership over northern lands. Making the right decisions on the use of land and its resources is one of our greatest responsibilities, and we want to get it right. I look forward to bringing the final Land Use and Sustainability Framework to this House during our fall session. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment, Mr. Ramsay.

Mr. Speaker, the oil and gas activity in the Sahtu Region has the potential to grow and diversify the Northwest Territories economy, a key priority of this government. In the last few years, this potential has created many opportunities and challenges for the people, businesses, and industry working in the area.

We want to make sure development continues in a timely yet environmentally sustainable way, and that local residents and businesses benefit. Later today, at the appropriate time, I will be tabling the Resource Exploration in the Sahtu Settlement Area: Opportunities and Challenges, wherein these issues are addressed.

Our natural resources are the source of our prosperity, and after devolution, they will provide additional revenues to support investments in our people, our environment and our economy.

The report takes a closer look at projections for exploration activity in the Sahtu over the next five years, the potential for opportunities and challenges related to the level of activity, and how the GNWT can prepare to respond.

It includes a number of recommendations, highlighting areas that must be addressed to maximize benefits for NWT residents, businesses, and communities.

These include:

• the need for an approved land use plan for the Sahtu;
• the need for improved training opportunities;
• the need to develop comprehensive environmental baseline information for the proposed exploration areas; and
• the need for improved information-gathering procedures to better understand the opportunities and impacts related to hydrocarbon development.

Mr. Speaker, petroleum exploration and development is important to the Sahtu region. After the busy winter work season, many residents have had training and job opportunities, and NWT businesses have profited from company spending.

However, we as a government have always adhered to the principles of sustainable development. This prosperity will not come at the expense of those who live and work in the region. Investments in managing our land and environment help us use our resources wisely and sustainably while continuing to protect the health of our land and our people.

The Department of Industry, Tourism and Investment has been working closely with a number of other GNWT departments to address any issues related to development.

We want to ensure the services and resources needed in the region are readily available, and that those resources are being used effectively.

Just last week, representatives from the GNWT, industry, Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development Canada, Canadian Economic Development Agency, National Energy Board, Sahtu Land and Water Board, Mackenzie Valley Environmental Impact Review Board, Sahtu Renewable Resource Board and other groups came together in Norman Wells to identify common actions to support the ongoing exploration activity in the region.

Mr. Speaker, by being proactive and taking steps to identify challenges early, these impacts can be managed efficiently and effectively.

We are continuously building relationships and identifying the needs for partnerships.

By continuing to maintain a consistent dialogue between industry, all levels of government, between GNWT departments, Aboriginal organizations, and NWT residents and businesses, we will be better prepared to address any social, environmental and economic issues related to this activity and will ensure resource development continues to be part of our diversified economy that provides all communities and regions with opportunities and choices. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The honourable Minister responsible for NTPC.

Mr. Speaker, on May 31, 2013, in response to questions from Mr. Alfred Moses, Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, I addressed aspects of this government's plan to provide relief for the residents of Inuvik by introducing liquefied natural gas, or LNG, to the community. I would like to clarify one point about LNG storage plans.

Northwest Territories Power Corporation plans to store just under a weeks' supply of LNG on site for the electricity project. A full year's supply of backup diesel is already on hand in Inuvik. Once the pilot year is completed, an evaluation of storage requirements will determine what the optimal storage requirements will be and that may be as much as 30 days.

While providing lower cost electricity to NTPC customers is certainly a central objective of this initiative, it may not be the only way that Inuvik residents will be able to enjoy the benefits of LNG. Provided that the LNG pilot year for electricity proves successful, the community may wish to consider the merits of LNG as part of the heating solution for the town as they may receive some economies of scale by exploring an LNG solution alongside NTPC.

The seasonal heating requirements for the town will require a higher level of storage - in the order of 30 days' worth of storage. The optimum level of storage and the overall viability of LNG for heating supply will have to be evaluated after the LNG pilot year is operational and the impact of extended ferry service has been assessed. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Ms. Bisaro.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Elders make a difference in our communities every day. Elders are deeply involved in our communities and their contributions benefit NWT residents of all ages. I'm really pleased to see so many MLAs wearing purple here today to raise awareness of elder abuse.

June 15^th is World Elder Abuse Awareness Day and I'm going to do my part today to raise the awareness of elder abuse. Elder abuse is a significant threat to the older residents of our NWT communities, as Members well know, and it is a problem in both small communities and larger centres.

For many years elder abuse remained a private matter, hidden from view and not talked about. Thankfully, in the last 30 years or so, elder abuse has become increasingly more important to our society and it's now seen as a public problem that needs attention.

The World Health Organization report called Missing Voices stated that abuse, neglect and financial exploitation of elders are much more common than societies admit. The same report demonstrates clear links between elder abuse and disempowerment and discrimination of elders.

Elder abuse is defined as any kind of physical, sexual, psychological or economic abuse, as well as neglect. Perhaps surprisingly, male elders are almost at the same risk of abuse as female elders. Elders are taken advantage of because they are physically frail or have diminished mental capacity. Family members extort money from their elders or force them to sign over property. It's very unfortunate, Mr. Speaker, but elders are an easy target.

Elder abuse does not discriminate. It happens in institutions as well as private homes and to elders of all races. Our elders should be respected and honoured. They hold the wisdom, the history and the knowledge of our communities and our territory. We must not ignore elder abuse, and understanding it gives us the power to fight it. Society has recognized that elder abuse and neglect is occurring and must raise awareness of the problem. We need to inform health and social service practitioners and the general public about elder abuse, ensure that they can identify the signs of elder abuse and know where to find the help to combat it. We need to use the media to change attitudes and reduce stereotyping of the elders, and we need to educate our elders as well.

All of these actions bring the problem of elder abuse out into the open, encourage acknowledgement that it's a problem, and we can start to eradicate it. Next Saturday, June 15^th, wear purple again, find an elder, show them the respect they deserve, and let them know you care.

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. The Member for Weledeh, Mr. Bromley.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Pathways to Mineral Development is an excellent portrayal of industry perspectives. Compiled in partnership with the NWT and Nunavut Chamber of Mines and paneled with industry professionals without even an offer of public meetings, it is an imbalanced agenda of corporate priorities that in whole sections is completely devoid of public interest and environmental sustainability perspectives.

Here are a few high points, or really low points: There's the basic premise that corporations are to be wooed with a blend of government-funded subsidies, debased regulatory standards and freedom from social benefits and employment requirements or environmental accountability. The report envisages our good old 43,000 person territory as a mid-Canadian jurisdiction class - between Newfoundland and Ontario - cashbox of subsidies and inducements. Recommendations call for the creation of a cadre of public-funded development advocates who would act as industry handmaidens assuming the responsibilities and costs of industry to engage the regulatory process. Lack of skilled northern workers is referred to as a deterrent to investment rather than an obstacle to the prosperity of the NWT residents who must be the first beneficiaries when their birthright is merchandised. Fly-in/fly-out is taken as a given. An even worse given premise is the casual expectation that we will continue in the creation of contaminated sites requiring perpetual care. That's if, and at costs to government, the land and people that far outstrip one-time benefits of the developments. The report refers to the yo-yo spurts of Yukon and Nunavut exploration spending as plights to be envied, not instability to be avoided.

The biggest mantra is marketing. Public dismay at environmental degradation and lack of corporate accountability for costs of cleanup are seen as problems of public misperception to be schmoozed away. Recommendation priorities hammer on the notion that the NWT must be seen as eager for any development at any cost, greased through a disassembled regulatory system with government-funded staff, taxpayer subsidies and relaxed socio-economic requirements.

This is the fox owning the henhouse.

I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

---Unanimous consent granted

This is the fox owning the henhouse. Acceptance of such recommendations as the fuel of post-devolution policy is deeply chilling. Where's the balance?

If the Minister's intent was to get the industry to dream in colour and tell them what they want, that's fine, but please, go now to a respected public interest policy group and get that perspective added in before developing a final strategy.

I will have questions.

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. The Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Nadli.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Second to none, Fort Providence is home to the biggest horseflies in the Northwest Territories. They are nasty, vicious biters which cut through the skin to feed on blood. Swarms of mosquitoes and sandflies also leave itchy bites and cause some people to suffer allergic reactions. These bugs are attracted to movement, bright colours and carbon dioxide in our breath.

The Government of the Northwest Territories leaves it up to municipalities and hungry birds, fish and frogs to work out their own abatement programs. In the interests of health, tourism and our economy, we need to launch a nontoxic pest control that does not involve telling people and animals in the NWT to always wear light colours and stop breathing. The fact that large-scale solution lies in bug biomass, an innovation that will benefit our communities, improve our economy and help solve other issues along the way.

Vehicles hit thousands of horseflies along the highway all summer, requiring motorists to scrape carcasses off their vehicles after every trip. The attack on mosquitos and horseflies that get drawn to a vehicle was that these and an equally irritating child is enough to make even the keenest tourists want to jump off the Deh Cho Bridge.

---Laughter

I urge the departments of Environment and Natural Resources and Industry, Tourism and Investment to install giant insect traps in all of our small communities so we can collect bugs and use them along with wood pellets to heat our homes and public buildings. As technology advances, soon we will be able to harness living insects and use them to produce power as they buzz around inside small generation units instead of our windows, screen doors and picnic tables.

Bug biomass helps us tackle the issues that get under our skin. Harvesting this natural resource reduces fossil fuel consumption and greenhouse gas emissions, eliminates the need for pesticides, attracts tourists, and increases the number of happy campers and blissful buffalo, bears, caribou and other animals who are also harassed by bugs. Rest assured there will be still plenty of insects to feed all the birds, frogs, dragonflies and spiders up and down the food chain for generations to come.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

---Unanimous consent granted

I would like to take this opportunity to wish my colleagues, constituents and all the residents of the Northwest Territories a safe and enjoyable summer. Wear sunscreen and don't let the bugs bite. Mahsi.

Thank you, Mr. Nadli. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Menicoche.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today I was very pleased to hear the Minister of Transportation's statement on Corridors for Canada III, a document for building prosperity. While I cannot share any details before it is tabled later today, I can say that potential investment in Highway No. 7 brings a tear to my eye. An improved transportation network is a foundation required to support economic development and the future prosperity in the NWT. Improvements to transportation also benefit our communities and people, by improving their level of service like more chipseal and by making our highways safer. I support this Government of the Northwest Territories in being proactive and submitting this infrastructure proposal to the federal government in advance of the funding program details being known. This may help to form and shape the federal program so that the North can realize more infrastructure improvements.

The investments made under Corridors for Canada I and Corridors for Canada II have made significant improvements to the system. I look forward to continuing the improvements. There is much work to do. I am also encouraged that investments are proposed in every region across the NWT. There are many needs in my riding, as I have been raising in this House. Normally my favourite two words are Highway 7. I do recognize that this proposal needs to be strategic and we can't include everything we would like. I am pleased that it appears that the government has been listening to my concerns, and also on reconstructed Highway No. 7 and improvements to the Mackenzie Highway including sections towards Wrigley. I also hope to see more chipseal from Fort Simpson towards Hay River, which is being asked for by my constituents.

The Deh Cho travelling through Nahendeh this winter has dramatically increased and, also, they expect an increase in industrial traffic in Fort Liard this year as well. I am very supportive of the projects included to advance the Mackenzie Valley Highway. I look forward to finding even more funding to begin constructing this highway north of Wrigley. Industry will substantially benefit from the investment, perhaps our partnerships, opportunities to invest even more. Once again, I look forward to a positive response from the federal government as the Department of Transportation and other governments make our plans this summer. Mahsi cho.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. The Member for Range Lake, Mr. Dolynny.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Member for Frame Lake brought an important topic to the House today and I'd like to continue that work on, as she put it, elders do make a difference, and I totally agree with her.

During this session we heard about what the Department of Education, Culture and Employment is doing to combat bullying in schools. This House even passed a motion joining our national legislative colleagues on denouncing cyberbullying. It seems everywhere you turn a form of bullying is making its way to mainstream media through social networks.

Another not so well known or talked about form of abuse is bullying of our beloved seniors and our respected elders. This is being brought forward this year as the World Elder Abuse Awareness Day, which is happening on June 15^th.

So why is this so important for us here in the NWT? I have to thank the hardworking NWT Seniors' Society, because they carried out a recent study and it was a questionnaire, and 528 people through 11 communities around the Northwest Territories participated in this questionnaire, and 71 percent who completed this questionnaire indicated that elder abuse was an issue in their community, which is fairly significant. During this study they found that there were some common patterns of abuse worth noting. As they said, all forms of abuse were prevalent, but they did earmark the fact that there were some quite common ones in their report. That one was financial, followed by neglect, emotional and, finally, verbal abuse.

More importantly, it was also noted that there was a lot of silence around the issue, with little or no reporting or understanding of what to do about it, which is a very common practice with elder abuse.

During this awareness day on June 15^th, I will challenge all Northerners, including Members of this House, to find ways to recognize the signs of elder abuse in our communities.

I'm hoping that everyone will take the time to reach out and take an active role on this topic, pass it on, and that's not the abuse I mean, but pass it on in terms of the information and the knowledge that we have by sharing this today, and collect local stories from our elders and our seniors and let them have a voice on this day, and even doing what we're doing here today, Mr. Speaker, and supporting us by wearing purple.

So I'd like to thank the Minister's office, the Minister of Health and Social Services, for spearheading this today. You'll notice a lot of us are wearing our corsages and I'd like to thank everyone for their participation today. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. The Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, Mr. Moses.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I cannot stand today to do my Member's statement. The reason being is I've committed to being in a wheelchair for today, and although I did stand when the Mace came in and during the prayer, I did that out of respect for the House and the rules of the House.

The reason I'm in a wheelchair today is because I've committed to creating awareness of a different kind: awareness for people with disabilities. This week is Disabilities Awareness Week and the theme is Disability Awareness: Creating an Accessible and Welcoming Community for all People.

As I sit here in a wheelchair today, I've been going around the building to see how accessible the Legislative Assembly is. I also do this not only in support of people with disabilities, but for the good, hard work and commitment from the people who do work for people with disabilities. The NWT Disabilities Council, more importantly a group that I've done work with and volunteered with in the past, and that is the Inuvik Disabilities Council as well, who, on a short budget - earlier this week we talked about the NGO Stabilization Fund - raised and did a lot of volunteer fundraising to get a transportation van that actually does a lot of really good work in Inuvik, and they hold an annual dinner to raise money in support for people with disabilities. So I just wanted to shed light on the good work that people are doing as well.

There was more than just reason about awareness. I wanted to create some of the things that we've heard while sitting in this Assembly. In the NWT Human Rights Commission Annual Report, of the 38 new complaints this year, 20 of them were categorized as a disability. That in itself should say we need to do more work and look into this to get these addressed.

Persons with disabilities have the right to be treated equally, with dignity and respect. We not only need to engage the communities, make them more accessible, but today we did something different, we've engaged the Legislative Assembly. We've brought something to light that's sometimes never really talked about or brought action to, and I can speak to this because I've lived it for just part of the day. Later today I will be going out in Yellowknife and do some other things to see how accessible the city of Yellowknife is. I do hope to set up a meeting with the Persons with Disabilities here in Yellowknife before I do leave.

I'd just like to thank my colleagues today for assisting me in any types of assistance that I did need, but I'd also like to thank my colleagues and staff members who let me be independent and go around the building without any support. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Moses. The honourable Member for Hay River North, Mr. Bouchard.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today I'd like to revisit an issue I've brought forward to this House before, bariatric surgery. As Members know, over the last two years I've been working hard to lose weight. I've lost just over 200 pounds.

---Applause

I appreciate that, but I'm working to pay it forward to the people that are still in the situation where they are seriously overweight. In my discussions with the Minister of Health and the Department of Health, they've told me the department is working on lifestyle choices, healthy lifestyle choices, and that they have lots of support out there for people who want to lose weight. I don't disagree with that. I know, as that individual two years ago, I had lots of support. I had nutritionists, dieticians, diabetic nurses that helped me out as much as they could.

But I'm not talking about people who need to lose 20 or 30 pounds, people who are slightly overweight. I'm talking about people who need to lose 50, 100, 200 pounds just to be in the normal weight category. It's not just a matter of just saying if you eat a little more veggies and exercise. When you're 403 pounds, you go and exercise one day, you have that ability, the next day it hurts, it hurts a lot, so you can't do this on a steady basis.

There are people out there who need this kind of weight loss and need additional help. Bariatric surgery provides that help, allows them to limit their food intake and assists them in losing weight, so when they do exercise, they see the results immediately.

The department has told me that they have done a cost estimate of the nutrition program and the costs attached to it. I understand that, but the costs that I'm talking about are other costs involved.

When I was 403 pounds, I was on insulin, Metformin, blood pressure pills, water pills and the GNWT was getting charged anywhere from $800 to $1,000 a month.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my speech.

---Unanimous consent granted

At that cost of $800 to $1,000 a month, which I was costing the GNWT every month, I have since then been able to get off of insulin, I haven't eliminated Metformin yet, I have gotten rid of water pills, and because I am on Metformin still, I need a blood pressure pill. Most of those costs are gone, Mr. Speaker. So the costs associated that are saved could be put towards bariatric surgery. That would be repaid within a year to two years, depending on the types of medications an individual is on.

I will have questions for the Minister of Health today to convince him and the department that this is a necessity for people who are seriously overweight. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Bouchard. The honourable Member for Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to pass on my heartfelt appreciation for my friend here. He is walking his talk and it is much appreciated. The last years with my grandfather, the last 10 or 15 years or so, he spent in a wheelchair, so I appreciate what he's doing here.

I want to do my Member's statement on the synthetic natural gas in Norman Wells. Yesterday Member Bisaro talked about you can't get what you always want, the Rolling Stones tune. Mr. R.C. McLeod followed up with another line from the Rolling Stones: If you try some time, you might just find you get what you need. I like the Rolling Stones, so I'm going to do my Member's statement as: you can't get any satisfaction here.

The Town of Norman Wells has entered into an MOU with Dalkia Canada to provide a heating solution for the residents who will completely lose their natural gas source by this time next year. Dalkia has agreed to supply the community with synthetic natural gas for two years, until the town and the company decide on the best long-term heating solutions for Norman Wells. No one is really saying how much Dalkia's plan will cost. They have an estimate, so the residents of Norman Wells already know they're going to pay more to heat their homes. Some people have gone off the grid.

Norman Wells is a big part of the Northwest Territories renewable energy plan. Many people ask for subsidies to be able to afford to heat their homes. The Government of the Northwest Territories pays millions of dollars in energy subsidies. These costs have a huge impact on the fiscal framework. They affect our ability to provide programs and services and move forward on important initiatives.

Norman Wells isn't the only community facing an energy crisis. Between 2012 and 2014, this government will spend at least $300,000 on exploring long-term energy solutions for Inuvik. Again, we need to invest in long-term solutions for Norman Wells, just as does our sister community in Inuvik. The Department of Public Works plans major investments in biomass in our airports and our schools. Biomass and district heating systems are among the options the community has proposed for long-term solutions. These efforts should be expanded and built upon to ensure a sustainable future for our community and natural resources.

I seek unanimous consent to conclude my Member's statement.

---Unanimous consent granted

The government needs to step up as an active player now and find long-term energy solutions for Norman Wells. We must fully support the residents' efforts to convert sustainable energy sources like biomass, hydro or solar power. We need to do this before our people go south or go broke. I'm looking for satisfaction.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. I just thank God you didn't sing it for us today. The Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to use today's Member's statement to revisit the health care card issue as it continues to be a bit of a frantic issue out there. Some people are defining it as maybe a mini scandal of some sort, and others say maybe an inquiry of some sort, as well, needs to be considered.

The fact that people have been e-mailing, whether they've been faxing or even mailing in their applications, they don't know where the information is going and it really continues to call into question the integrity of the system as well as the safety of that information being sent out there. Often enough we hear about how people are preyed upon when they have private information. Here we're talking about elder abuse. We have elders here who have often been targeted as people to get their private information so nefarious people out there do nasty, nasty things.

The point here is we've got two issues. One, what's going to be done about the health care card application process. Is it a scandal? Is it a problem? We don't know how big the problem is because we can't even define how many applications have gone in there and where they've gone. We don't know who to contact because we don't know if we've processed them. By the time we finish this application process, it's going to be a year or two away. We're going to require immediate action.

But, as always, I try to bring a solution to the table at the same time. I've been looking at this issue from a different perspective. First of all, why do we renew health care cards? Well, one of the obvious reasons is we have to ensure Northerner's are getting a northern health care card. In other words, we're not having the fly-in/fly-out workers using northern health care. We all know at length on how short or not available, that is, dollars are when it comes to paying for health care initiatives and how challenging that always is, so we want to ensure Northerners are getting health care that Northerners rightly deserve.

One of the solutions I'd like to propose is, because we have a DMV in many areas, whether they're in small communities, large regions or even in Yellowknife, why don't we look at considering the situation of providing a photo health care card? I'm not suggesting we stop, pull all the brakes out at this particular moment, but this is the type of initiative we could start planning for today. Kind of like a Service Canada model with the federal government where when you go into one stop, you can do a little bit of one-stop shopping.

If we had a photo ID, that would help protect the integrity of the system because you can demonstrate fully that that is you on the picture, and that is you getting northern health care, and that is you who is a true Northerner and you deserve that. That may not be the perfect solution, but we can work with ways moving forward. Again, I don't expect it now, but I do say this is something we can work towards.

That said, I will have questions for the Minister of Health about this potential scandalous situation and how we can solve some of the things going forward. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Blake.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The RCMP has been part of our lives in the North since their arrival in 1904. We are proud of the relationships that our communities and the RCMP have built over the years. It is important that leaders support communities and the RCMP to continue to build on these positive working relationships. Our leaders and communities want to work alongside the RCMP to make our homes and communities a safer place to live.

Over the last couple of years, I have made a number of statements in this House concerning the lack of policing in Tsiigehtchic. There is no question in my mind that a police detachment in Tsiigehtchic is necessary and must be a part of this government's long-term plan. I do, however, recognize the reality and know that a detachment isn't going to happen tomorrow. I know a detachment is a ways off. It could be years. This is an unfortunate reality.

The problem is that, as I fight for my constituents and champion for a detachment, the needs of my people continue. The issues don't take a break because there is no detachment. In fact, it only gets worse.

Today I want to work with the Minister of Justice on some interim solutions to policing and public safety that can exist in Tsiigehtchic.

Our world is constantly changing. Today we are dealing with factors we did not traditionally see, such as drugs. Our elders are worried about how to deal with this and how to help our youth. We need to work together to explore all options, especially in our communities that do not have detachments.

I know that we have many committed people who will dedicate their time to help those who come into conflict with the law. There are community justice committees, victim service workers, volunteers for crime prevention activities and other community events. They require our ongoing support, as do the RCMP members who are working in our communities.

I want to explore all of the options to create links with the RCMP, recruitment, Aboriginal community constable programs, programs for the youth that may help address community safety and support policing in Tsiigehtchic.

Later today I will ask the Minister of Justice questions on what we can do while we are waiting for a detachment to become a reality in Tsiigehtchic, working together on these types of initiatives to help my constituents feel safe in their homes and in the community. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Blake. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. McLeod.

Mr. Speaker, today I would like to recognize the 62^nd wedding anniversary of my in-laws, Fred and Berna Mandeville. Fred and Berna were married in Fort Resolution on April 13, 1951, so Friday the 13^th is lucky after all. They have 12 children, of whom my wife, Melody, is the eldest. Fred and Berna live in Hay River and, at the young ages of 80 and 82, live on their own and continue to spend time at their cabin at Buffalo River whenever they can.

Their wedding was supposed to be a double wedding with George and Rosa Fabien. However, the 13^th happened to be on a Friday, so George and Rosa decided to get married the day before. George and Rosa are also celebrating their 62^nd wedding anniversary this year. They are both living in the extended care facility in Hay River. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The Member for Tu Nedhe, Mr. Beaulieu.

Mahsi cho, Mr. Speaker. I'd like to congratulate Adrian Lizotte, originally from Tu Nedhe, for receiving the Premier's Award yesterday for his work on anthrax.

It is with great sadness that I send my condolences to the family of the late Grant Giroux. He passed away on March 24, 2013, at age 58. He was born in Rocher River on February 18, 1955.

Grant was a hardworking, dedicated man and was dedicated to his seven children and 10 grandchildren. His work was always focused on the benefits for the people that he loved. He was a great father and grandfather and loved to show his love, and this will keep his memory strong.

Grant was a hunter and trapper, and also a heavy equipment operator instructor. All his life he always shared what he had with elders, friends and family. His life was always to help people. He had a great sense of humour and people would always surround him because he showed compassion to everyone he met.

Grant was predeceased by his parents, Wilfred and Elizabeth Giroux, and his sister, Violet Giroux-Bailey. My condolences go out to Grant's seven children, 10 grandchildren, his brothers, George, Raymond, Robert, David, Velmore, Carl and Justin, and his sisters, Edith and Dianne, and his many nephews, nieces, cousins and friends.

I also would like to send my deepest condolences to the family and friends of Mr. Barry Sanderson of Deninu K'ue, who passed away this year and had the funeral on May 14, 2013.

Barry was born November 25, 1966. He was a hardworking person with a loving heart and he loved his two children, Craig and Roberta, and his mother, Mary. He did the best he could for them.

He is survived by his mother, his brother, James, and sister, Cyndi. Barry had a great sense of humour and wanted to see family and friends smile and laugh. He loved life and always had a helping hand for those in need.

My sincerest condolences go out to his two children, Roberta and Craig, his mother, who will miss him dearly, his sister, Cyndi, and his brother, James, many nieces, nephews, cousins and many, many friends. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Item 4, reports of standing and special committees. Mr. Nadli.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Standing Committee on Government Operations is pleased to provide its report on the Report of the Auditor General of Canada on the 2013 Northwest Territories Income Security Programs and commends it to this House.

Thank you, Mr. Nadli. You may proceed.

Introduction

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Standing Committee on Government Operations held its public review of the 2013 Report of the Auditor General of Canada on April 16 and 17, 2013.

The standing committee thanks assistant auditor general Ronnie Campbell, principal Glenn Wheeler, and lead auditor Erin Jellinek for preparing the report and assisting the committee during the public review. The committee also thanks the associate deputy minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Dana Heide; Deputy Minister Gabriella Eggenhofer; and the director of income security, Ms. Lois Walbourne, for appearing as witnesses at the review.

Role of the Auditor General of Canada in the NWT

The Auditor General of Canada conducts financial and performance audits in all three northern territories. Financial audits tell the Legislative Assembly and the public whether the government is keeping proper accounts and records and presenting its financial information fairly. Performance audits consider whether programs are being run with due regard for economy, efficiency, effectiveness and environmental impacts. Since 2006, the Auditor General has conducted seven performance audits in the Northwest Territories and issued one status report covering progress on the recommendations of previous audits.

The Legislative Assembly's Standing Committee on Government Operations is mandated to review the reports of the Auditor General and make recommendations to the Government of the Northwest Territories.

Members look for efficiencies, best practices, and gaps, with the intent of improving services to residents. The Auditor General's reports are essential tools in Members' scrutiny of government spending and performance.

I will now hand the report over to my colleague Ms. Bisaro.

Thank you, Mr. Nadli. Ms. Bisaro.

Northwest Territories Income Security Programs Delivered by the Department of Education, Culture and Employment

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Auditor General's report was tabled in the Legislative Assembly on March 7, 2013. This year's performance audit focused on four income security programs delivered by the Northwest Territories Department of Education, Culture and Employment (ECE): Income Assistance, Student Financial Assistance, the Child Care User Subsidy, and the Senior Home Heating Subsidy.

All of these programs are directly related to the 17^th Assembly's goal of “healthy, educated people free from poverty.”

In the past, northern indigenous peoples survived by following traditional laws of sharing, caring, and mutual respect. If someone was in need, they received help. There was no shame in that. Everyone had a contribution to make, and everyone was worthy of respect. Today Northwest Territories income security programs help meet the basic needs of individuals and families for food, shelter, clothing and warmth. Members believe such programs should be delivered not only in compliance with modern-day statutes and regulations, but also in the spirit and with the intent of the traditional laws.

Northerners also strongly value self-reliance. Since 2007 this value has been explicitly reflected in Northwest Territories income security programs delivered by the Department of Education, Culture and Employment. These programs reduce dependency on government by encouraging people who are able to enter or remain in the workforce, supporting students in post-secondary education, subsidizing child care to help parents become or stay employed, and helping seniors stay in their own homes through assistance with heating costs.

These are large and important programs. The number of people who received benefits under one of ECE's four programs in 2010-11 totalled 5,455, or roughly one in every eight Northwest Territories residents. The Government of the Northwest Territories spends about $30 million per year on these programs.

The Auditor General's 2013 Report

The Auditor General's performance audit covered program delivery between April 2009 and September 2012. Client files from April 2009 to June 2012 were sampled to determine if applicants were assessed and benefits paid according to requirements. ECE's efforts to assess program performance between January 2007 and September 2012 were examined, in order to include changes to the programs made in 2007.

The audit focused on two main questions. The first was whether the department was delivering its programs according to key elements of legislation and policies. The second was whether the department was collecting data and assessing program performance to ensure objectives are met.

The Standing Committee on Government Operations was dismayed to learn from the Auditor General's report that there are serious systemic problems with the delivery of income security programs by the Department of Education, Culture and Employment.

According to the Auditor General, the department is providing reasonable access to these programs and has established the required appeals processes.

However, the Auditor General also found that many client files are not managed according to requirements: processes are unclear, not followed or incomplete; monitoring is inconsistent; financial oversight is sometimes lacking; employees are not sufficiently trained; and there is limited assessment of program performance. These issues are significant.

In delivering income security, the right amounts must go to the right people, at the right time, otherwise someone could be out on the street trying to collect enough pop bottles to pay for their next meal. A disabled person might not be able to meet their rent. A student could drop out, or an elder could get sick because their house is too cold. Behind the income security numbers are some of the most vulnerable people in our society.

Observations and Recommendations

The Auditor General's observations on ECE income security programs, and the committee's ratings based on the audit, can be summarized as follows.

Access to income security programs?

• ECE promotes its programs through the media.
• Program information sessions are held.
• Routine visits to small/remote communities are made.
• Local Aboriginal language services are used.
• There have been improvements to appeal processes.

The committee considers this satisfactory.

Program delivery in accordance with requirements?

• Fifty-nine percent of 65 files reviewed did not meet one or more key requirements.
• Income Assistance had the most unsatisfactory files (90 percent)
  • Client eligibility was not consistently verified
    • regarding client income
    • regarding participation in required activities (“productive choices”)
  • Payments were inaccurate
• Student Financial Assistance did better, but:
  • correctly determining residency was a problem
• Senior Home Heating and Child Care User Subsidy payments were not made within the required time frames.

The committee considers this unsatisfactory.

Processes and systems to support program delivery?

• Required processes are not consistently followed.
• Guidance to front-line workers is not clear.
• The training provided may not be adequate.
• There is insufficient monitoring of program delivery against requirements.

The committee considers this unsatisfactory.

Data collection and analysis?

• Data collected is not used to analyze program performance and modify programming.
• There has been no formal overall assessment of whether the programs are meeting their objectives.

The committee considers this unsatisfactory.

1. General Considerations
   1. Integrated continuum of services

The standing committee is concerned about the coordination of income security programs within the GNWT and the coordination of income security and other services to residents in need.

The scope of the Auditor General's performance audit was limited to the four income security programs delivered by ECE. However, there is a larger context to consider. The department's income security programs are part of a network of 16 GNWT programs totalling $140 million per year. The committee was told during the hearing that subsidy and benefit programs to help meet residents' income security needs are offered by the NWT Housing Corporation, Health and Social Services, Justice, and Municipal and Community Affairs, among others. Some programs are delivered through the tax system in conjunction with the federal government. The committee did not receive a complete inventory of these programs during the review.

From another perspective, the people who apply for ECE's income support programs are more than their bank accounts. They are whole human beings, with a wide range of needs and capabilities. During the public review, ECE's associate deputy minister suggested that as many as 30 percent of income assistance clients, in particular, might be more appropriately case-managed by another department or agency. ECE's programs are heavily oriented towards the labour market. Its client service officers operate in conjunction with regional service centres that also house career development officers. Client service officers are not social workers. While they can refer people to counselling, for example, as a productive choice, the client must self-identify.

The Government of the Northwest Territories is collaborating with Aboriginal governments and non-governmental organizations (NGOs) in the development and implementation of a poverty-free NWT strategy. As the department moves to implement the Auditor General's recommendations, its officials will need to consider how these actions will impact the strategy and its implementation.

One of the pillars of the proposed Anti-Poverty Strategy is an integrated continuum of services. While the vision of the strategy is more wide-ranging, the standing committee would like to know, at a minimum, how ECE's income security programs complement other GNWT income security programs. The committee also encourages ECE to work with other GNWT social envelope departments and other service providers towards the development of an integrated case management system or team approach, consistent with its commitment to a culture of client service.

Recommendation 1

The Standing Committee on Government Operations recommends that the Department of Education, Culture and Employment take the lead in working with other GNWT social envelope departments and other service providers towards the development of an integrated case management system, consistent with its commitment to a culture of client service.

Mr. Speaker, I would now like to hand the reading of the report over to my colleague Mr. Dolynny. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Mr. Dolynny.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, Ms. Bisaro.

• 1. Program accountability and reporting relationships in ECE

The Auditor General's report briefly outlines how the Department of Education, Culture and Employment is organized to deliver its four income security programs. The associate deputy minister stated that he was ultimately accountable for these programs and their performance. The standing committee appreciates this statement. However, Members found they could not readily discern the reporting relationships and accountabilities of staff delivering income security programs at regional and community offices, regional superintendents of ECE, and managers and senior managers at headquarters.

Recommendation 2

The Standing Committee on Government Operations recommends that the Department of Education, Culture and Employment clarify the reporting relationships of staff involved in the delivery of its income security programs with a view to making their accountability evident, and provide this information to the standing committee at the earliest opportunity.

• 1. Front-line staff are concerned about workloads and safety

The Auditor General's observations conclude with a section on the workload and safety concerns of front-line income security workers. These observations were outside the scope of the audit, but they are clearly important. The standing committee has stressed the need for staff to treat Income Security clients with respect and compassion. Front-line workers deserve the same treatment.

Client service officers, or CSOs, are the front-line workers who deliver the Income Assistance, Senior Home Heating and Child Care Assistance programs. CSO caseloads can be very heavy. Large numbers of cases leave the CSOs with little time to work with clients to provide services such as career planning. The Auditor General determined that in 2011, CSOs handled an average of 34 files a month. However, in some communities, CSOs are administering 65 to 119 files per month. These figures do not take into account Senior Home Heating or Child Care User Subsidy.

The department has not officially identified a standard for monthly caseloads. The standing committee learned during the hearing that ECE is working on its CSO training effort first, which may improve these workers' efficiency. The committee suggests trying another measure, as well, that may save both the CSOs and their clients some time. The regulatory framework for income assistance already permits ongoing clients to report their income at longer intervals, rather than having to provide documentation every month. This feature of the program is underutilized, perhaps owing to concern about overpayments.

Recommendation 3

The Standing Committee on Government Operations recommends that the Department of Education, Culture and Employment set a standard for monthly client service officer caseloads, review staffing levels and rebalance workloads as needed. A backup system should be in place to provide additional experienced staff support where there is a temporary overload.

The committee learned that the turnover rate for CSOs is approximately 50 percent annually. Such a high level of turnover is costly, and it impacts the quality and efficiency of service to clients. The Auditor General's staff and the associate deputy minister of ECE consider that better training will help retention, as will the development of caseload standards. The committee highlighted the need for mentoring of new staff, not only by supervisors but by more experienced colleagues. An improved turnover rate would be a helpful indicator of whether working conditions and morale have improved, and whether training and caseload standards have been effectively implemented.

Recommendation 4

The Standing Committee on Government Operations recommends that the Department of Education, Culture and Employment report the turnover rate for its client service officers annually as a performance measure in the department's business plan.

Finally, some CSOs expressed safety concerns during the audit. Sadly, employees do not feel adequately protected from hostile clients. The department has provided a workplace protocol for hostile behaviour, and some offices have glass partitions and alternative exits. While physical measures like partitions may help with worker safety, they may not be welcoming for clients. It is also difficult to create safer conditions in smaller communities with one-person offices. Nevertheless, the standing committee believes front-line workers deserve a safer workplace. Solutions can and must be found to make their offices both safe and welcoming.

Recommendation 5

The Standing Committee on Government Operations recommends that the Department of Education, Culture and Employment prioritize the establishment of safe workplaces for its front-line Income Security workers, bearing in mind the need to retain a welcoming atmosphere for clients, and report on client service officers' satisfaction with safety measures annually as a performance measure in the department's business plan.

1. Access to income security programs
   1. The Auditor General found that the Department provides reasonable access to its income security programs

The standing committee was glad to hear that access to income security programs is provided across the Northwest Territories in a wide variety of ways and commends the department on its efforts in this area.

However, the statement in the Auditor General's report that “the department has worked with hamlet councils to implement a voucher system for the Income Assistance program” raised questions for the committee. Members recognize that vouchers were mentioned in connection with the department's ongoing efforts to respond to First Nations and community governments. Providing vouchers instead of cash is intended to help address community social issues by ensuring that income assistance is spent on basic family needs.

Members learned at the public review that voucher systems are now in place in several Northwest Territories communities, and that the department has attempted to evaluate them, with inconclusive results. The committee would like to confirm that vouchers are not limiting eligible clients' access to income assistance, that they are being provided fairly and with due respect for the dignity of clients, that the system is not subject to abuse, and that vouchers are having the intended effect of reducing community social problems.

Recommendation 6

The Standing Committee on Government Operations recommends that the Department of Education, Culture and Employment report to the Standing Committee on Social Programs on the use of voucher systems for income assistance in Northwest Territories communities, noting locations, numbers of clients, features of the systems, monitoring by the department, performance measures and evaluation results.

• 1. The Auditor General found that the department has processes in place to administer client appeals

All four of ECE's income security programs require that there be an appeal process for clients who feel they have been treated unfairly. By 2010 ECE had established the required appeal committees and boards for income assistance. The department has also been following the required SFA appeal processes. An appeals coordinator has been hired to organize appeals for all income security programs and to assist clients. The Auditor General reviewed proceedings from 36 of 136 appeals (78 income assistance and 58 student financial assistance) and found that appeals committees and boards generally conduct them in an appropriate and timely manner.

The standing committee concurs that having all required appeals processes in place is a significant improvement. However, Members had concerns about the underlying fairness of the appeals processes. Currently, an appellant may be left without financial support until such time as the appeal is heard. While most appeals are now heard in a timely manner, it can take as long as a month to get a hearing. The committee believes appellants should be given the benefit of the doubt and that support should be provided at least until the hearing, in the case of both new and existing Income Assistance clients and for ongoing Student Financial Assistance clients.

Recommendation 7

The Standing Committee on Government Operations recommends that the Department of Education, Culture and Employment provide support to income security appellants at least until the hearing, in the case of both new and existing Income Assistance clients and for ongoing Student Financial Assistance clients.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to pass on the report to my colleague Mr. Moses. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Mr. Moses.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, Mr. Dolynny.

1. Program delivery in accordance with requirements

The Auditor General found that the majority of income security client files reviewed were not managed according to one or more program requirements.

The Auditor General's staff sampled client files from April 2009 to June 2012 to determine if applicants were assessed and benefits paid according to requirements. A random sample of 65 client files from all four programs was used, from both regional and small community service centres. The file review focused mainly on compliance with eligibility requirements and timely and accurate payments.

On the positive side, there were numerous examples of good case management practices, and requirements were consistently met in some areas. The Auditor General's staff also saw many examples of client service officers providing active help to clients, including home visits, help completing applications, alternative payment methods, and help with financial management. The standing committee recognizes and applauds the many CSOs who are putting great effort, compassion and respect into helping their clients.

However, the overall results of the file audit must be considered unsatisfactory. Key program requirements were not met in nearly 60 percent of the files. The review found significant issues with the delivery of the four programs in accordance with their governing legislation and regulations. As the report states, “Not complying with these requirements means the department may not be making effective use of public funds and may be compromising its commitments to support vulnerable residents and to help them become more self-reliant.”

The Income Assistance program was clearly the most problematic of the four programs audited. Key requirements were not met in 90 percent of income assistance files audited. A substantial proportion of the files contained inaccurate payments. Worse, CSOs' client assessments and adherence to policies and procedures were inconsistent. Some CSOs verified clients' income, while others did not. Some tracked participation in productive choices and paid or refused benefits accordingly, while others did not. This means clients received different benefits depending on which CSO was processing their file. The standing committee finds these results unacceptable. Moreover, Members are aware of other issues not highlighted in the audit, including lost documents and late payments. The department must improve in all these areas.

The Student Financial Assistance program, which is centrally administered from headquarters, had better results. About 35 percent of the files audited did not meet key requirements. One important finding was that student case officers did not make consistent decisions on student residency, and decisions did not always comply with program eligibility requirements. The standing committee expects the department to clarify Student Financial Assistance program guidelines on residency and eligibility not only for student case officers but also for students and the public, especially on the department's website.

Forty percent of Senior Home Heating Subsidy files did not meet one or more key requirements. One issue specific to this program is clients not receiving the amount of subsidy to which they were entitled. In some cases this was because seniors were granted the subsidy for a limited time, usually September to March, rather than over the full fiscal year. The Auditor General encouraged the department to consider options to ensure that recipients have the opportunity to use their full subsidy amount, but did not make a recommendation. The committee wants the department to take action and report back.

Recommendation 8

The Standing Committee on Government Operations recommends that the Department of Education, Culture and Employment consider options to ensure that Senior Home Heating Subsidy recipients have the opportunity to use their full subsidy amount, and that the department present these options to the Standing Committee on Social Programs within the 2013-2014 fiscal year.

Seventy percent of the Child Care User Subsidy files examined by the auditors did not meet requirements. Here, delays in payments to parents or child care providers were a significant problem. The Auditor General found that CSOs were often unclear about the required verification process and failed to meet required timelines for the payments. The Child Care User Subsidy was incorporated into the Income Assistance program in September 2012. As with student financial assistance, the standing committee is concerned not only with clear guidelines for staff but also for the general public. The department assured the committee during the review that the necessary information is publicly available.

The committee will make a formal recommendation concurring with the Auditor General's recommendation on this subject later in this report.

1. Factors in the delivery and management of programs

The Auditor General identified six main factors in the department's difficulties in delivering and managing its income security programs according to the requirements of legislation, policies and guidelines. The standing committee concurs with all of the Auditor General's recommendations in these areas, including better monitoring, training and support to staff. The committee is pleased to note that the Minister and the Department of Education, Culture and Employment have accepted these recommendations and are working towards implementing them.

1. Processes to support program delivery are unclear in some areas

The Auditor General found that the department has processes and tools in place to support the delivery of income security programs, including detailed policies, procedures, guidelines and standard templates. In some instances, however, these are unclear. For example:

• For Income Assistance, processes are unclear in that policies and procedures do not provide clear instructions for CSOs on how to confirm clients' incomes when they apply and each month thereafter.
• For Student Financial Assistance, lack of clarity in the eligibility criteria related to student residency led to inconsistent decisions.
• For Senior Home Heating Subsidy, processes are unclear in that ECE's guidelines do not explain how to verify homeownership and who resides in the applicant's home. ECE in some regions also had difficulty tracking how much of the subsidy some clients used, because they did not get individual client invoices.
• For the Child Care User Subsidy, policies, procedures and guidelines did not provide clear guidance for verifying child care costs.

The Auditor General had two recommendations with respect to clarifying program guidelines, one general and one specific to the Child Care User Subsidy. The standing committee concurs with both.

Recommendation 9

The Standing Committee on Government Operations concurs with the Auditor General of Canada and recommends that the Department of Education, Culture and Employment should clarify policies, procedures and guidelines outlining Income Security Program delivery requirements and how to meet them. It should ensure staff understand and are following these procedures and guidelines.

Recommendation 10

The Standing Committee on Government Operations concurs with the Auditor General of Canada and recommends that, as the Department of Education, Culture and Employment introduces its revised Child Care User Subsidy within the Income Assistance Program, it should develop clear guidelines that are consistent with program requirements and clearly communicate these requirements to front-line staff and potential applicants.

1. Lack of oversight increases risk in the use of the Client Management and Administration System (CMAS)

The CMAS database was used to support delivery of all four of the department's income security programs. The system is built on the assumption that CSOs verify client information before it is entered, and that they enter the information correctly.

However, the Auditor General's review found that errors do occur, CSOs do not verify client information in all files, and they do not always understand or apply program requirements in the same way.

For income assistance, CSOs also use the CMAS system to issue monthly payments. In ECE community service centres, CSOs can both commit and release payments through CMAS without sign-off by a second party. There is a risk ECE may not have the appropriate controls in place to help stop errors in payments to Income Assistance clients, or potential fraud. This issue was noted in a 2009 review, but as of September 2012 no action had been taken.

Payments under the other three programs are issued out of the GNWT's SAM financial system.

The Auditor General did not provide a recommendation. The standing committee heard during the review that ECE has not been able to find an acceptable solution with its existing CMAS system and limited staffing in small communities. The department is concerned about limiting CSOs' ability to provide emergency income assistance. The committee expects the department to develop a plan to provide the necessary oversight. The department would do well to consult with the Department of Finance on audit and accounting protocols.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to turn over the reading of the report to Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Moses. Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

• 1. Monitoring of program delivery in regional/community service centres is inconsistent

According to the Auditor General, ECE's monitoring of income security programs delivered by regional and community service centres is inconsistent. Managers in some regions visit community service centres to monitor general program delivery and spending. However, in most regions they did not monitor files in detail for compliance due to costs of travel, staff shortages and workloads.

The OAG found examples of good monitoring practices in some regions. In one region, the manager reviews random client files and documents results to ensure CSOs verified information properly and the file complies with requirements. Findings are presented to CSOs, highlighting areas in need of attention. Another region implemented a buddy system that matches CSOs to a designated staff member to whom they can transfer responsibility for files involving family members or friends. The standing committee believes a buddy system would also be helpful in peer mentoring and as a backup in case of absence or overload.

Recommendation 11

The Standing Committee on Government Operations concurs with the Auditor General of Canada and recommends that the Department of Education, Culture and Employment should ensure that regional managers and supervisors formally monitor client files. This monitoring should include regularly scheduled reviews of client files as well as the use of standard templates in all regions to help ensure a consistent approach. In cases where monitoring uncovers deficiencies or other issues, regional managers and supervisors should follow up formally.

The Auditor General also found that regional and community service centres set productive choice requirements inconsistently. CSOs in some regions thought 25 hours a month were required, while those in other regions thought no set hours were established. In some smaller communities, CSOs enforce a standard number of hours to avoid perceptions of unfairness.

Recommendation 12

The Standing Committee on Government Operations concurs with the Auditor General of Canada and recommends that the Department of Education, Culture and Employment should clarify program requirements for productive choices in its guidance to client service officers and clearly communicate them. Regional managers should also monitor compliance with productive choice requirements and take corrective action where necessary.

The standing committee considers that some flexibility is needed in the number of hours, because of differences in client's abilities and difference in the choices available in communities. The committee's main concern, however, was that the productive choices should be genuinely productive for the clients. They often are not, in Members' experience. More guidance is needed for clients in what is expected of them when they undertake a productive choice such as education, training or, especially, volunteer work. In addition to the Auditor General's recommendation, the committee would like to see a full evaluation of the productive choices component of the Income Assistance program.

Recommendation 13

The Standing Committee on Government Operations recommends that the Department of Education, Culture and Employment undertake a complete evaluation of the productive choice component of the Income Assistance program, as a priority, that the evaluation involve the community leadership and residents, and that the department provide options for change in the productive choices component of Income Assistance to the Standing Committee on Social Programs within the life of the 17^th Assembly.

• 1. Processes to identify and address inaccurate payments have not been followed

Compliance reviews of selected files for all four programs are required by policy to ensure clients receive benefits to which they are entitled.

The Auditor General found that ECE had not developed a strategy or framework to identify files for compliance review and had reviewed files only after staff identified a problem or risk. ECE completed 72 file reviews in the three fiscal years from 2009-2010 to 2011-2012, mostly on income assistance files; three were student financial assistance files. No compliance reviews were done for Senior Home Heating Subsidy or Child Care User Subsidy.

The standing committee was pleased to hear that the department has made progress on a strategy and framework for file audits, and is now undertaking file compliance audits in one community per region each year.

Recommendation 14

The Standing Committee on Government Operations concurs with the Auditor General of Canada and recommends that, in accordance with its program requirements, the Department of Education, Culture and Employment should review a selection of income security files periodically, to ensure that clients receive benefits to which they are entitled. The department should establish a framework to identify files to audit, based on predetermined criteria. Results should be reported to the director of income security annually.

Collection procedures for debts due to a department are required over a 90-day period under the GNWT FAM. If the debt cannot be collected, the department must forward the debts to Finance for collection.

The Auditor General found that ECE has not been following required collection procedures for overpayments of income assistance and 1,620 clients have received overpayments over the last 10 years amounting to about $2 million. Only $880,000 of this overpayment had been collected by September 2012. The department deducts $25 per month from client benefits to recover overpayments. It does not collect from clients who are no longer on income assistance.

Finance has established a six-year statute of limitations for the collection of debts. There was 26 percent of clients who were overpaid who faced no collection activity in six years or more. These debts could be losses for ECE. The department does not report these debts in its annual financial statements. ECE says it does not follow the required procedure because the CMAS database does not have a trigger to set the process in motion. CMAS notifies the CSO of an overpayment but does not track the age of the debt.

The committee recognizes that the department is working on solutions to some of its collections issues and expects to see results by December 31, 2013.

Recommendation 15

The Standing Committee on Government Operations concurs with the Auditor General of Canada and recommends that when the Department of Education, Culture and Employment identifies income assistance overpayments, it should comply with the Financial Administration Manual requirements for collecting them. It should follow collection procedures by issuing invoices and written notifications, per the required schedule, and forward outstanding debts to the Department of Finance for collection when required.

1. Processes for managing remissible and repayable loans are incomplete

As of March 2012, $29.7 million in repayable student financial assistance loans was due to the department, and $6.4 million in remissible loans. The default rate for repayable loans was about 31 percent in 2012, according to the Auditor General. The committee is concerned at the high rate of default. Monitoring processes for student financial assistance loans rely on officials manually reviewing program reports and on the student or the educational institution notifying the department. There is a risk loans due for repayment may be missed.

Recommendation 16

The Standing Committee on Government Operations concurs with the Auditor General of Canada and recommends that the Department of Education, Culture and Employment should modify its management of student loans to ensure that identification of student loans due for repayment does not rely solely on student notification or manual review by officials.

Mr. Speaker, I will now turn over the report to the chair, Mr. Nadli.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Nadli.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

1. Front-line staff do not receive sufficient training

Income security programs and the ECE strategic plan require the department to train staff to fulfill their duties. CSOs must complete a two-week course to receive their statutory designation, with authority to assess client eligibility, evaluate their financial needs and issue payments. The CSOs had completed the course, but the department does not have an ongoing training and development program for CSOs. Student financial assistance case officers, for their part, receive a binder, but no formal training. The department has not fully assessed training needs of CSOs or SFA case officers.

Recommendation 17

The Standing Committee on Government Operations concurs with the Auditor General of Canada and recommends that the Department of Education, Culture and Employment should formalize current and future competency-based training programs for client service officers and student case officers. It should identify and provide core training so they can attain and maintain the competencies their job requires. The department should also ensure that staff members receive regular training updates, to ensure that they fully understand Income Security Program requirements.

The standing committee considers regular training opportunities to be especially important in view of the very high turnover rate for CSOs. The committee also expects the department to ensure that there is no interruption of service when staff are attending training. A backup system that is more than a 1-800 number is required.

1. Data Collection and Analysis Towards Performance Assessment

The standing committee was reminded in a previous Auditor General's report that effective program management requires that:

• performance indicators and program standards are established;
• performance is measured and monitored against standards; and
• issues are identified and action taken to improve programs.

The second major question the Auditor General asked in this audit was whether ECE assessed the performance of its programs in order to ensure objectives are met. ECE's efforts to assess program performance between January 2007 and September 2012 were examined, in order to include the 2007 reform initiative that emphasized new goals of self-reliance for clients.

1. The Auditor General found that the department regularly solicits input from clients on program performance.

The department conducts ongoing client satisfaction surveys. During the review, the committee learned that 73 percent of income assistance respondents were satisfied with programs and services, according to the latest survey results. Members do not see 73 percent as a very good result. The department must focus on good client service. The survey results are valuable performance measures, and the committee would like to ensure they are eventually made public.

Recommendation 18

The Standing Committee on Government Operations recommends that the Department of Education, Culture and Employment report its income assistance client survey results annually as a performance measure in the departmental business plan.

1. However, there is limited assessment of program performance

The department collects some relevant information through CMAS, including client characteristics and numbers, spending, and variances in program use and spending by community and region. The Auditor General found, however, that the department does little to track results.

The department had not established any targets or outcome measures for three of the four income security programs audited. It had only one target for Income Assistance: reducing the number of recipients in the 19 to 29 age group by providing supports for education and training.

The standing committee learned during the hearing that approximately 30 percent of the Income Assistance caseload is made up of recipients on assistance for more than one year. Additional monitoring and reporting would be helpful in determining the reasons for such a high proportion of recipients on long-term assistance and evaluating the department's success in meeting the self-reliance goal.

The department collects other information that could be used to measure whether Income Security objectives are being met; for example, the number of returning clients, length of time on benefits, and the number participating in productive choices. The department could also use info from its student financial assistance files to help determine the number of graduates.

In sum, the department has not formally evaluated the four programs to assess their performance, and ECE has not evaluated its success in meeting the new objective of client self-reliance since income security programs were restructured in 2007.

Recommendation 19

The Standing Committee on Government Operations concurs with the Auditor General of Canada and recommends that the Department of Education, Culture and Employment should:

• establish targets and outcome measures that align with the overall objective for its income security programs;
• review the data it currently collects on income security programs, to ensure it has the data required to measure whether targets and outcomes are being met; and
• develop a plan to identify when it will evaluate its programs, to determine if the objective of its income security programs is being met.

Conclusion

The committee is encouraged that the Minister has accepted the Auditor General's recommendations and that the department plans to implement them. Members are, nevertheless, convinced that ECE's Income Security Program delivery and evaluation will improve only if the department's senior management devotes sustained attention, over a period of years, to carrying out the planned reforms and creating an organizational culture of client service.

The standing committee remains deeply concerned by the findings of this audit. It is the Auditor General's practice from time to time to review the results of past audits and report on whether recommendations are being implemented. The standing committee is hopeful that the Auditor General of Canada will conduct a follow-up audit of ECE's income security programs at a suitable interval. Meanwhile, the committee expects the Department of Education, Culture and Employment to report on its implementation of the recommendations on an annual basis to the appropriate standing committee.

Recommendation 20

The Standing Committee on Government Operations recommends that the Department of Education, Culture and Employment report to the Standing Committee on Social Programs by April 30^th each year on its progress in implementing the recommendations of the Auditor General and this House with respect to income security programs during the preceding fiscal year.

The committee believes the department is committed to change, and encourages its senior management to work consistently towards creating a far more client-centred and accountable organization for the delivery of vital income security programs.

Recommendation 21

The Standing Committee on Government Operations recommends that the government provide a comprehensive response to this report within 120 days.

Mr. Speaker, that concludes the report of the Standing Committee on Government Operations on the Review of the Auditor General of Canada on the 2013 Income Security Programs.

I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Frame Lake, that Committee Report 5-17(4) be received by the Assembly and moved into Committee of the Whole for further consideration.

Thank you, Mr. Nadli. To the motion.

Question has been called.

---Carried

Committee Report 5-17(4) will be moved into Committee of the Whole for further consideration. Mr. Nadli.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to waive Rule 93(4) and move Committee Report 5-17(4) into Committee of the Whole for consideration today. Mahsi.

---Unanimous consent granted

Thank you, Mr. Nadli. Colleagues, I'm going to take a 15-minute break.

---SHORT RECESS

Item 5, returns to oral questions. Item 6, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Abernethy.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to recognize two individuals who are on the Anti-Poverty Steering Committee, Ms. Bronwyn Watters and Ms. Julie Green, and thank you both so much for all the hard work you put into this strategy. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. Mr. Hawkins.

Mr. Speaker, it gives me great pleasure to recognize the flood of seniors we have here today, recognizing the day it is. From the NWT Seniors Society, we have Barb Hood, executive director; Carly Aasen, project intern officer; Yvonne Quick, who is a program coordinator as well as an Arctic ambassador. Maureen Hall, also known passionately as Squeak, of course, is president of the Yellowknife Seniors' Society. Marg Green is a member of the Yellowknife Seniors' Society. We all call her Nana Marg, by the way. June Van Dine Arden is a board member of the Yellowknife Seniors' Society. Kim Doyle, who is no stranger to Members here in the Assembly, is the executive director of the Seniors' Society. Della Green is the coordinator of the Victim Services Program. Esther Braden is past-president of the Canadian Hard of Hearing Association chapter in Yellowknife.

I have a couple of other quick groups to recognize, some constituents in the gallery as well. I want to thank them, as Mr. Abernethy has said. Julie Green, thank you for staying, as well as Janice McKenna; and Status of Women, Lorraine Phaneuf and Annemieke Mulders.

The last group I'd like to recognize are Engineers Canada. They are having their national coordinating body for all engineer professions and they're having their meeting here in Yellowknife. I think I have seen probably 40 or so, in that range, walking around the building. I want to thank them for coming to the Northwest Territories and let them know that there are many towns and special places outside of Yellowknife, so don't be afraid to come back and visit them. Thank you again for choosing Yellowknife. They're having their AGM on Saturday. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Moses.

Mr. Speaker, I'd like to recognize my constituency assistant, Ms. Maia Lepage. I believe I did see her up in the stands earlier. She is also here chaperoning two Pages from Inuvik, Ms. Kyla Hvatum and Ms. Keisha Shaimaiyuk. They said they've been having a good time here in the capital as well as paging here in the Legislative Assembly. I'm really glad that they have had that experience and were able to come to Yellowknife and participate in the program. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Moses. Mr. Bromley.

I believe I still have some constituents from Weledeh in the House. Barb Hood, executive director of the NWT Seniors. I would also like to welcome the other seniors and other residents here. Aggie Brockman is here. Also Cominco, Greg Loftus, welcome, Greg. I would like to specially recognize my working partner for the last four years, my CA, Craig Yeo. Also, many of the seniors here that have been mentioned. Squeak is here. Welcome, Squeak. Also Marg Green, Della Green, Yvonne Quick. Esther Braden was here earlier. I don`t know whether she is still here. Lorraine Phaneuf, Annemieke Mulders. I won't put her in the seniors' category, but many of these are, of course, some are real workhorses for public interest and public health and benefit for our people. Julie Green is out here, so much work on the Anti-Poverty Strategy and other aspects. Bronwyn Watters as well. Welcome to all of those folks and any that I have missed.

I would also like to recognize the Engineers Canada. I understand they are going to have their Engineers Canada gala at the Weledeh School here in Weledeh on Saturday night. Welcome to Weledeh a little bit in advance there. Thank you for choosing Yellowknife. Mahsi.

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Ms. Bisaro.

Thanks, Mr. Speaker. I'd like to recognize Jeff Corradetti, Frame Lake constituent. Thanks, Jeff, for coming to listen to us today. I would like to recognize the groups that came here, the seniors group that came. I don't think I need to go through the names. I'd like to particularly mention the members of the steering committee for the Anti-Poverty Strategy who are here and thank them for their work, and the Status of Women Council group who are here. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. I'd like to welcome everybody here and thank you for coming in for today's proceedings.

Item 7, acknowledgements. Ms. Bisaro.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today I'd like to acknowledge Frame Lake constituent Mr. Ian Legaree, director of sport, recreation and youth with our Department of Municipal and Community Affairs. Ian, yesterday, received the Dave Ramsden Career Excellence Award. This is the most prestigious of the awards presented at the annual Premier's Awards ceremony and it recognizes the outstanding achievements of an individual with 20 or more years of experience in the GNWT public service. Congratulations, Ian. Well deserved.

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Item 8, oral questions. The Member for Hay River North, Mr. Bouchard.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In my Member's statement I talked about the bariatric surgery and my current situation. I have questions for the Minister of Health. I guess I'm basically looking for direction from the Minister of Health. Why does the GNWT not pay for bariatric surgery?

Thank you, Mr. Bouchard. The Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Beaulieu.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. At this time the bariatric surgery is not part of the formulary; however, it can be, depending on what type of programs the doctor will recommend to an individual that may require bariatric surgery, depending on the body mass index. So, based on that, there would be several programs an individual could go through and nutrition programs, a routine that they would have to go through in order to become eligible for bariatric surgery. Thank you.

Along those lines, the department has indicated to me that it is insurable if it's medically necessary. Can the Minister explain to me what is medical necessity? Does it matter if you're 50 pounds overweight, 100 pounds overweight, 200 pounds overweight? When does it become a medical necessity to lose this weight?

At one point when morbid obesity is being considered to be endangering an individual's life, then it would be considered medically necessary. Thank you.

I think the longer that somebody is obese the more likely it's going to cost the system, and cost the system in different ways. As I indicated, I was a big cost on the system before with insulin and large volumes of Metformin a requirement.

As I indicated, the department will receive its money back quickly on bariatric surgery by reducing the amount of medication required. Has the Minister looked into the cost recovery process due to weight loss done by bariatric surgery? Thank you.

Not officially and we understand that if an individual did receive bariatric surgery and then he was to come off some expensive diabetic medicines, then the recovery would be fairly rapid. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Bouchard.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As the Minister indicated, a person could come off those medications really quickly and the money could be obtained quickly.

Can I get commitment from the Minister that his department will look into doing bariatric surgery sooner than later and helping these people in the North that are heavy, heavy people that are way overweight? I'm not talking about somebody that's 20 or 30 pounds, I'm talking about somebody that's 100, 150, 200 pounds, like I was.

The department is interested in cost containment, and if we look at bariatric surgery and we recognize that the surgery is cost beneficial to the GNWT, and of course, changing the life of an individual that is morbidly obese, I will commit to looking into at least doing a cost-benefit analysis of that.

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. The Member for Range Lake, Mr. Dolynny.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yesterday I gave a Member's statement about the challenges which I had in accessing information from this government. More specifically, it was for a public government office building that's being built here in Yellowknife. I subsequently tabled, with this House, copies of my attempts to obtain a copy of this contract with the Department of Public Works. I also tabled an abstract from the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act, Section 3(2), which states that the act is in addition to and does not replace existing procedures for access to government information or records.

Yesterday the Minister of Public Works and Services stated that I failed to follow the usual procedures in getting a copy of this contract. I had the opportunity to take a look at the debate in this House when the access to legislation was passed. That was in 1994. This is in reference to page 265, of 1994, October 13^th, that I'll table later on today. At that time, a concern was raised that the act would be used to deny information to MLAs, could take away their privileges as a Member. Then the Minister of the day for Justice, Mr. Kakfwi, clearly indicated that the legislation was, and his words were, “...in no way replaces current procedures in place for accessing information, which includes MLAs.”

Given this background, will the honourable Minister of Justice and Minister of Public Works and Services commit to providing me a copy of the sought after contract without being redacted and without the necessity of me having to apply under the ATIPP Act?

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. The Minister of Justice, Mr. Abernethy.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As MLAs, as Ministers we have a responsibility to protect the rights of privacies of individuals and organizations. We also have a responsibility to share information as much as we can with our colleagues. But there is a law. The ATIPP Act requires public bodies to protect the business interests of third parties, while balancing the right of the public to access information held by public bodies. Request for access to contract information is assessed against the protection afforded to third-party business interests contained within Section 24 of the act. This section requires public bodies to review whether disclosure of business information could, among other things, harm the competitiveness of a contractor providing services to public bodies.

Also, Mr. Dolynny has tabled Section 3(2) of the ATIPP Act, which requires or provides that this act is in addition to and does not replace existing procedures for access to government information or records. Section 3(2) means that public bodies can, and should, apply policies and procedures related to routine disclosure of government information, without requiring individuals to resort to making requests under ATIPP.

Unfortunately, Mr. Dolynny has not identified the policies or procedures to which Section 3(2) might apply, and under which of the contracts in question should have been disclosed to his constituency assistant as a matter of routine.

My record speaks for itself. I've been open and transparent with committee. I've been open and transparent with Members, and I've done everything I can legally to provide them legally appropriate documents. In this case, the law is clear. I cannot give the Member a copy of this contract without going to the public body or the organization that the contract is in party with.

I've encouraged the Member to file an ATIPP request. The Member has not filed an ATIPP request. Once the Member files an ATIPP request - and we as Members are all bound by the law; we're not above the law; it has to be applied accordingly, which basically means that the ATIPP request would go through the normal process - we would identify the number of pages that are required in the request and we would identify a cost. The Member has the opportunity then, if he were to file an ATIPP request, to actually ask us to waive the fee, which absolutely, as a Member, we would do, because we want Members to have the information they need to make informed decisions. There is a law. I as Attorney General of the Northwest Territories will not break the law to give the Member a contract. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, yesterday I did table the document which I did. My office did apply for the ATIPP request. I have no reason to go collect bottles and pop cans around Yellowknife to raise $1,500 to do so. My budget does not allow me to do that.

Given that I have an obligation as an MLA to hold this government accountable, and given that this House was expressly told that the access legislation wasn't meant to replace the usual way of accessing information, will this Minister, will the Department of Public Works and Services reconsider their position and provide me with this information even only on a confidential basis?

Mr. Speaker, as I indicated yesterday, we've had one application for this information. It was from a private citizen sent from his private home, with no reference at all that he was working on behalf of the MLA. The staff who actually processed the request would have had no idea that the Member was actually the one forwarding this request.

I would love to provide the contract to the Member. I would love to do it in open and in public. The problem is, there is a law. I can't break the law. I would like to work with the Member. I would like to sit down with the Member and identify what exactly he is trying to get to so that I can provide that information.

Over the last number of months we have provided significant information. The RFP was available on-line, which outlined the build of this building. We have had public discussion in committee about the budget, so everybody in the House knows what the budget is. The contract value is public. What we have actually signed with the contractor is, indeed, public. The timeline is known. We sat here in Committee of the Whole and discussed a timeline at length. The committee has been made aware of everything on this file. The contract is over 1,000 pages long and it is a third-party contract via an agreement with somebody else. An employee can sit down with the Member and walk through the contract and show him. I had to get permission from them. The way that we engage that process is through ATIPP. We happened to waive the fee for the Member, but the Member has to file an ATIPP request and ask us to waive the fee because it is clearly outlined in law. We will do that, but it has to be done through the appropriate channels, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, believe me, the project is under budget and on time. We hear this time and time again and somehow we are supposed to believe all the information that we have here when we are disclosing witnesses. How can we, when we can't look at the information? That is basically the real problem. We have to believe that it is okay. I have the right to look at that information. I was elected to do so. I have the accountability of the people of Range Lake to do that business.

Will the Minister commit to a review of the policies and procedures around MLAs obtaining government information under the review of this so-called act that we are trying to hold dear to our heart, so as to ensure that the historical tradition and the consensus-based Legislature which we are in, of this government, will provide us as Members the continuous way so that we can do our proper business in the Northwest Territories? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Let's have a bit of respect here. Mr. Abernethy.

Mr. Speaker, we are not above the law. We are not above the law. As MLAs we are bound by the laws just like every other citizen. We don't have the right, nor should we, to break the law so that we can get information that has action part and parcel of a third party. That third party may say yes, MLA Dolynny can look at that contract. We are willing to ask, once the Member files an ATIPP request. Until such a time as that happens, we can't do that. It would be against the law. I'm not going to change the law just so MLAs can have access to information that they probably shouldn't have.

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Dolynny.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will reapply with an ATIPP request. I will include in my ATIPP request my addresses, birth certificate, my picture ID and my driver's licence. If I do all that, will the Minister comply and let me have a sneak peek of this contract? Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, the process is that it will be reviewed. It will be identified how many pages are required to meet the Member's request. It will identify the cost. The letter will indicate there is a cost. The Member can certainly ask us to waive the fee. Frankly, I'm interested in helping the Member obtain this information, so we will likely waive the fee, but we have to go through an appropriate process. We have to go through the legal process. I will do that. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. Mr. Hawkins.

QUESTION 313-17(4):
HEALTH CARE CARD RENEWAL PROCESS

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In my Member's statement today I talked about the scandalous situation we have here about the lost faxes or even mailed health care forms when people are applying for renewal. My situation comes down to this: We don't know how many applications have been lost, we don't know where they have gone, we don't know who has this information, and we don't know what they're doing with this information.

So my question to the Minister of Health and Social Services is: Is he willing to do a public type of inquiry into this process to find out where this information has gone, how come something seems to be screwed up, and what is he going to do to fix it to show confidence in the public system? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Minister of Health, Mr. Beaulieu.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The department is continuing to work to resolve the few issues that are out there with the people having misplaced in either the application process or the card that was coming from the South to them. We don't see this as a major issue. We process 100 applications per day and we're doing those applications. We have a very high rate of compliance in returning health care cards. Most people have no issues with this, so I don't think it's a scandalous situation. Thank you.

Well, let's get to the bottom of this then. The Minister cannot tell us where the information has gone, who has got it, what the problem is and what he is going to do about it. So how does he know it's not a scandal if he doesn't know what's happening? Thank you.

We judge our statistics on what we're getting from people that are indicating to us that they haven't received their health care card in the appropriate time. Most people aren't saying anything. As I indicated in the House previously, we received about 86 percent of the people who had birthdates up until a certain point that we were processing. That was 11,600 applications to the middle of May. If the information is lost, then we will do what we can to recover information. So the bottom line is, the individuals are covered for medical reasons and that's what we're trying to achieve. Thank you.

We have a leak in the ship and its sinking and no one seems to know or care why. You'd think that this is a serious problem.

The last point is, there's an integrity question being called into question and I think the integrity needs to rise all the way to the top to the Minister's office to say, how is he going to take this situation seriously and what is he going to do about it. So, quite frankly, does the Minister have any clue how many applications are at risk and who is at risk? Thank you.

I've received e-mails from the various MLAs. I would say under 20 e-mails indicating to us that there's an issue with health care cards not coming on time, but we've set allowances for those individuals if they had applied for a health care card and by the time their birthday came around had not received health care, then we would cover them.

I guess, again, we need to make sure that people have coverage, health coverage, and that's what we're doing. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Hope and pray cannot be the policy of this program at the Department of Health, that we hope nothing has happened to the information, we pray no one does anything to the information. So the fact is we don't know where the information is going.

Does the Minister know what's happening in this situation and what is he doing about it, because apparently he doesn't seem to be taking it very seriously that all this personal information is being sent out there, no one knows where it's going, no one knows where it's landed, no one knows who has it and they don't certainly know what they're doing with it. What is the Minister going to do with that?