Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, we could provide that information to the Member.

Thank you. My second question, changing subjects, Mr. Bromley had asked the cost per inmate, per day, the individual costs of the inmate at a facility.

Can I also get a breakdown of what it would cost to send inmates out, be it adult or a juvenile, both male and female? Thank you.

Thank you. We could get that information as well. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Ramsay. Committee, on page 9-27, activity summary, court services, operations expenditure summary, $12.415 million.

Page 9-28, information item, court services, active positions.

Page 9-31, activity summary, corrections, operations expenditure summary, $38.928 million. Mr. Dolynny.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. It’s 9-31 that we’re on?

Yes. Mr. Dolynny.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just wanted to clarify. I just wanted to take a moment to look at the line item on grants and contributions that lists $179,000. This number is in reference to, I guess, on-the-land programs, in other words we call them wilderness camps and in this case there’s an

elders’ program as well. We know, as a committee, that wilderness camps have been on the radar for the department for some time. We know that we haven’t had many in existence probably for about two years. The last two that we had of value was the Kozo Lake adult camp and the Sahtu elders’ camp. We know those are no longer in activity.

We know that really these wilderness camps don’t represent a direct cost-savings opportunity for our NWT justice system partly because of the ratio of staff to inmates is quite a bit higher and the fact that they need more program development. We know that. We know that the cost savings in the end has more to do with the success of reducing recidivism at the end of the program, so we know there’s a high level of investment upfront and, hopefully, high rewards near the end. We know that in the operation of those two wilderness camps, safety was a definite issue. There were some issues regarding safety mechanisms for the inmates and the staff.

What has the department done to reflect on what we’ve learned from these camps to improve those areas of safety? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Minister Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I agree with the Member and there are other Members who have raised the issue about wilderness camps. Again, we went out to RFP late last year looking for a service provider for the operation of an on-the-land program. We didn’t receive a proposal that was deemed appropriate or available to us, so we are regrouping now. We want to get a wilderness program off the ground for all the reasons the Member has cited. It’s a good program to have here in the Northwest Territories and something we want to see and ensure happens. First and foremost, we want to assure the safety of the inmates who would participate in an on-the-land type of program. We need to, as a department, find the right fit for an operator.

Going forward, we are hopeful we can find an operator who wants to provide this service. Our belief is we will be successful in finding an operator. I know the Member for Sahtu has talked to me a number of times about an operator perhaps from Fort Good Hope. We’re optimistic that someone will step forward and help us get this program up and running. Thank you.

I appreciate the barriers in trying to find the right proponent to try to take this on. We know it will be a pretty daunting task.

Has the department established any safety protocols so that when a proponent is identified that the government is the one who has established what those barriers of safety are? Did the

government prepare the safety protocols? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Deputy Minister Haener.

Thank you, Deputy Minister. Mr. Dolynny.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I thank the deputy minister for that answer. I guess what I heard from that is they are working on it. They are working on some baseline, but it sounds still like the government hasn’t established the full parameters of a safety baseline in order for any proponent to work under our guidelines and not the guideline of the proponent. We can just park that for a second, Mr. Chair.

My next comment is there has to be some kind of guiding framework for the government to have for those on-the-land programs.

Does the department have a full framework, tried, tested and true that if a proponent comes around, that proponent is working to our guidelines. Do we have a framework for the government to go by when it comes to on-the-land programs? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Minister Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, we do. That would have been part of the RFP package and something we would be able to share with Members as well. Thank you.

I appreciate the Minister’s response. Let me rephrase my question a little bit differently here. Are we expecting the proponent to come up with the guiding framework, the safety protocols and the therapeutic outcome, or is the department establishing the baseline? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

It would be the department. Thank you.

So, given that, has that work been completed or is that still in process? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

That work has been concluded. Thank you.