This is page numbers 3977 – 4034 of the Hansard for the 17th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was going.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Mr. Chairman, as with the Heritage Fund, it will flow once it’s accrued and we know exactly what amount of money we have available to in fact divvy up. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Is it safe to say that the grants and contribution transfers – we heard the number $15 million – is just a book entry until such time as the money starts flowing in a year from now or two years from now? Is this is a book entry? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Deputy Minister Aumond.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Aumond

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The question is correct in many respects, is that under accrual accounting we have a liability since we

signed the Devolution Agreement and we’ve agreed to share 25 percent of our net fiscal benefit with Aboriginal governments. We have to book that and since we are estimating $120 million, their 25 percent share works out to $15 million. We have to account for that in the year that’s earned, which will be ’14-15. We won’t actually have the cash until the ’15-16 fiscal year when we will be able to finalize and determine what the net fiscal benefit is. Then that’s when, as the Minister said, payments would be made to both the Aboriginal governments and the NWT Heritage Fund. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

So just to be clear, is it a 25 percent model or is it a $15 million dollar model that is being accrued? I ask this with a caveat. Let’s say we have $130 million of resource revenues, what is the deciding factor? Is it the percentage or is it actually a fixed dollar that is being accrued?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Mr. Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It’s the percentage.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

No further questions.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Next on my list, Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I’m just wondering: with respect to the cost of living tax credit, is that related to the payroll tax and, if so, how and do they work together? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Deputy Minister Aumond.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Aumond

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Member is correct; it is related to the NWT payroll tax, but I didn’t quite hear the end of his question.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, deputy minister. Mr. Bromley, could you finish the question? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Yes, thanks. Sorry. The question was: How are they related and how do they work together? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Aumond

As the Member may know, on his own paycheque he pays payroll tax of 2 percent, then when you do your taxes at the end of the year you apply the cost of living tax credit against that up to a certain threshold level, then you receive that money as a credit. You get it back on your taxes in the year that you file it. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

How would that vary? Just on that, has the department… We obviously need revenue. This government needs revenue; I don’t think anybody questions that. Payroll tax, based on information provided by the Minister, is providing significant funds, some of which we lose through this cost of living tax credit, but it still leaves significant dollars. I believe it was increased from 1 percent originally to 2 percent. Given our situation

where we have so many migrant workers who live somewhere else and work here and take their dollars away so that there are very few benefits, this is the only opportunity we have that I know of. What’s the consideration for raising this from 2 percent to 4 percent or 5 percent?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. For the purpose of this budget, we have come forward with a budget that it stays at the 2 percent. Is there a debate that could be had next budget go around to talk about the efficacy of raising it, how does that work, what kind of additional revenue would it generate? That’s a discussion that we could have, but for this budget we’ve left it at 2 percent. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Many Members have recommended that this be raised. Why was it not raised in this budget?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Mr. Chairman, upon review and reflection, the decision was to not raise taxes except for the modest increase we put on to loose tobacco at this point. Looking after our expenditures, managing to live within our revenues and budget for the additional revenue that we look to get through the Resource Revenue Sharing Agreement. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

I hope I would have your support to get an answer here. I know what the decision was, obviously. It’s represented in the budget here. I’m asking why. What was the thinking? What was the assessment of increases in the payroll tax? What were the barriers? Why didn’t we go there?

This is not the first year that this has been raised. This has been raised repeatedly during my short career as a politician, so I’m looking to find out why we are not taking advantage of this apparent real opportunity to increase our revenue when we so very clearly need revenue, as the Minister has said. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. We’ll go to Deputy Minister Aumond.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Aumond

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The NWT payroll tax applies to everybody who works in the Northwest Territories where you are a resident or not. While we may get some more revenue from the fly-in-/fly-out workforce, we would also be taxing the people who work in the NWT. To that effect, we would be increasing our own cost of living and it would also cost the government more because our cost of living tax credit would have to go up commensurate with that. But after you reach a certain threshold, you would just be taxing more people who are resident than who are working here.

We can’t just tax those fly-in/fly-out workers because there’s a Charter challenge associated with that mobility right. I guess the intent of the payroll tax originally was to try to dissuade people from flying in/flying out. That hasn’t necessarily worked to the way that we thought it would, so the thinking now is to try to find other ways and means to get people to work and live in the NWT. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you. I think that’s the reason why we went to a payroll tax is because we can’t just tax people that live somewhere else and fly in and out. That’s why we went to the payroll tax and that’s why we have this cost of living tax credit as you’ve just explained.

Why couldn’t we simply increase the tax and increase the cost of living tax credit to protect residents?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Miltenberger.