Thank you. Page 13-23, information item, forest management, active positions. Any questions?

Seeing none, page 13-25, activity summary, wildlife, operations expenditure summary, $16.118 million. Ms. Bisaro.

Thanks, Mr. Chair. As I have for the last several years I need to ask the Minister when there can be any expectation, if any at all, that caribou outfitters will get some tags so that they can revive their business, maybe revive their business, bring it out of hibernation or mothballs? Is there any hope that in the ’14-15 winter that they will be able to get tags for caribou? Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Minister Miltenberger.

No, Mr. Chair. The herd numbers are such that we think it has hopefully stabilized at 35,000 or so. We are still keeping the hunting restrictions in place for the Bathurst herd, 150 tags for the Yellowknives, 150 tags for the Tlicho and we have agreed to issue and said the herd can sustain the issue of one resident tag to be harvested out of the Beverly-Ahiak herd and we looked at the Bluenose-East and their numbers have declined significantly from what we thought was well over 100,000 to 110,000 down to 60-some thousand. So we are at voluntary harvest on that herd as well.

So there is no light at the end of the tunnel when it comes to commercial harvest in this part of the country. Thank you.

Thanks. Great news – being very sarcastic. Okay, so does the Minister have any suggestions for these businesses that are scraping

by at the moment trying to hang on? I mean, should they just fold up their business and totally go on to something else, or is there some hope in the next two, three, four years that maybe they will get some caribou tags? Thank you.

Thank you. I’m somewhat restricted in my ability to talk extensively about the outfitters; we are currently involved in litigation with a number of them. We are working our way through that process, but in terms of the future for the recovery of the herd, it depends on what the survey is going to tell us and we’ll have the numbers probably late 2015 or 2016. If the trends continue, I would suggest that the outlook for any type of commercial harvest in the Bathurst herd is going to be very bleak, that wherever there’s road access to herds the numbers have declined precipitously and the herds are in distress. So in this area if we’re going to focus on rebuilding the herd, keeping the hunting restrictions in place to try to give the herd all the help it needs, but the future is bleak when it comes to commercial outfitting in this part of the country. Thank you.

Thanks to the Minister. I appreciate the clarification and the explanation. My last question goes to reporting and I don’t believe we have mandatory reporting for every individual who hunts caribou in whatever herd. So in order for us to maintain an accurate read on the number of animals and in order for us in the future to get an accurate read on the number of animals and to do decent projections, will the Minister consider requiring reporting from everybody who hunts caribou? Thank you.

Thank you. As we work on the regulations in the next number of months, that is one of the key topics of discussion among the working group members and there is recognition that you can’t manage what you can’t count. I’m fully expecting that by the time the process is concluded with input from the working group and the SWAAG group that we will have achieved a regulatory agreement as it pertains to mandatory reporting. Thank you.

Thanks to the Minister. That’s good to hear and I look forward to positive results. Thanks.

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Continuing on with wildlife, I have Mr. Bromley.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just want to talk about caribou briefly. I know there’s a lot of concern from the Minister and certainly from biologists about the loss of cows, particularly from depleted herds through hunting. Again, as the Minister knows, we’ve had years and years of restrictions for non-Aboriginal hunters to bulls only. I suppose hundreds or thousands of animals were taken and I’m not aware of any charges for shooting cows. Yet the department is still letting

cows be taken even from dangerously reduced populations like the Bathurst herd. Biologists will tell you that cows are the most important component of caribou herds in terms of their recovery. They’re the ones that bear the calves and raise the calves and any pressure on them whatsoever is a significant reduction in the recovery capacity of the herd. Will the Minister commit to stopping harvest of cows and allow these herds to recover? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. For that response I’ll go to Mr. Campbell.

Thank you, Mr. Campbell. Mr. Bromley.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to the deputy minister there. That is certainly substantial progress going from predominantly cows to less than 65 percent or less than 35 percent, I suppose that would be cows, 40 or 35 percent. That is certainly progress and I would certainly support the department in working on further progress on that front. I know it’s difficult. I mean, there are some cultural considerations and practices here, so it’s a tough situation, but I think the deputy minister is right. Without backing off on a cow harvest, the potential for recovery will be much reduced. I appreciate those efforts.

The other thing I wanted to bring up is the caribou herds of the east. I believe it’s currently going under the designation of Beverly-Ahiak, and has, I think, recently been approved for a harvest of one by those without Aboriginal treaty rights. While that’s progress, it’s almost ludicrous to come up with one tag at a distant and remote site like that. So far I’ve only found two hunters that are going to have the means to get over there, so again, it’s practically, in a practical sense, shutting out those without Aboriginal treaty rights again, despite there being a harvestable surplus. Why did the Minister restrict this harvest opportunity – let’s call it an opportunity even though it clearly isn’t for 99 percent of our hunters – to one animal?

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I prefer to look at it as we went from no harvest to the start of a resident harvest to one animal based on the best advice that I got from the experts, the folks in the field. Initially, we had hoped and thought that we’d be able to sustain a similar harvest with the Bluenose-East, but the numbers came back not being able to sustain that, so we went with, at least to start with, the one animal. I’ll ask the deputy if he wants to add anything further about the thought behind this.

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Deputy Minister Campbell.

Thank you, Mr. Campbell. Mr. Bromley.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Hunters have a saying that tracks make for thin

soup, and that is exactly what the Minister has provided to the hunters. Pretty thin soup here. I have to say it’s interesting that this government is willing to bend over backwards to help one group of people and do nothing but create barriers for another group. Just a comment there.

I’d like to talk about the Yellowknives Dene First Nations work with the department. They’ve been trying to work cooperatively with the department and had an agreement with the department for three years running, and all of a sudden the department has gone unilaterally off on their own. I know there are dollars in the budget here to work with these people. Why has the Minister decided to go off unilaterally issuing tags for Yellowknives Dene First Nations people but to people who are not actually members of this First Nation and without their agreement?