This is page numbers 4511 – 4544 of the Hansard for the 17th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was work.

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Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. I will certainly take your advice on this one here and I will make comments on his opening comments. I will follow that procedure.

Since these are opening comments, I do want to say that it is good to have students who are going out from the North or in the Northwest Territories, especially from outside the Territories. It encourages them to come back and bring these skills back with educational knowledge and be positive role models in our communities. I know that Aboriginal students are taking advantage of it through the grants. I know a grant is only limited and they’re only allowed a certain number of semesters before the grant runs out. SFA has that in the policy, and sometimes the Aboriginal students feel that they’re treated differently from the rest of the population. If the semesters are taken up or the funding is being used to the maximum, they no longer are eligible for it and they want to continue on with another type of career, because it takes them awhile to get into that requirement for this type of education. Say if they want to become a lawyer or study, they have used up their semester, I call it points, then I guess that’s when they’ll have to look at the loan system and see if they’re eligible, and according to the Minister, as long as they come back and live in the North, that shows true repatriation of our students.

I’m a little concerned when students who come to the North, raised in the North, and take advantage of our generosity because they don’t have to go to the banks. One thing I always found curious when I met with the students down south, they said they’re paying off their loan. I didn’t understand that, that they had, to the banks or some other institution, to pay off their loans. We see a lot of those students in our schools right now or in our health centres. People who are young who say they’re paying off their loans working up here. I never understood that. I thought everybody has a similar situation like I do, and I didn’t realize that. That’s part of my ignorance was, I didn’t know there were different levels of education in the Northwest Territories. You know, I’m saying, paying off your loan?

Anyhow, I do want to say that the more I look at this that the students who are taking advantage of this through the loan system and go down south, and for whatever reasons they continue to live down south after they finish their education, that’s where we’re seeing this issue here. I’m not too sure if the Minister and his department is continuing to work on that, because he said aggressively seeking policies that would make sure students, to the best of their knowledge, said they’ll come back and work and live in the Northwest Territories. It feels like sometimes that we’re being taken advantage of and our system has some form of a degree of abuse, and that’s not the whole intention of these support systems we have in place for students.

I wanted to just let the Minister know that we need to look at this issue seriously and stronger, the issue that students who come to us with good intentions and they get support, but they do not return, for whatever reasons, and only they know those reasons. However, according to the statement, there is a lot, a high percentage of them coming back and living in the North, so that’s a good sign. We’re seeing a small fragment or segment of our loans, and I certainly, again, support this bill with the request, and I support the students who are taking post-secondary institution training for the betterment of their families. Those are my comments.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. I didn’t really hear any questions there. Did you want to respond to that, Mr. Lafferty?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Madam Chair. Yes, this particular remissible loan, $40 million to $45 million, is certainly an incentive for the individuals to come back to the North and also to live in the North, and also to welcome them back to work in the North as well. Yes, they are 30 percent, or less than 30 percent out there we’re still working with individuals that may not come back or there are some challenges. We have to continue working with that, but it is creating incentive for them to come back to work. Mahsi.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister Lafferty. General comments. Next I have Mr. Hawkins.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Madam Chair. I’m just going to follow up and it’s very specific to the issue before us at this second, but I’m going to follow up on a matter that I raised in committee some time ago. Still, to my knowledge, I have yet to receive either a letter or any type of correspondence to that. It directly relates to the SFA and the loan system, and now we plan to expand it.

The issue I brought to the attention of the Minister is when we provide loan bursary programs and we only charge, if memory serves me correctly, at 1 percent above the regular rate, it is very, very low. Here, we’re asking for more money to increase the loan system, which I’m not necessarily against by any means, but the fact is how do you encourage people to come back when we have the lowest interest rate on loan systems. Shouldn’t we have a multi-tiered system to encourage people to come back? It doesn’t cost any additional money by increasing the rate, and actually it helps keep the balance of this fund lower if people are paying the higher rate if they choose not to come back to the Northwest Territories. It’s a choice, because right now it’s almost as if we’re giving money away and I’d like to see education pursued, and if we need to expand the loan system, I’m in favour of that, but we need to do it in a way that’s strategic.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Minister Lafferty.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Madam Chair. First of all, we’re not the lowest in Canada, and even the interest paid, it does go back to the general fund. But I will get Ms. Saturnino to elaborate, and she’s been actively involved in this, as well, with the remissible loans. Mahsi.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister Lafferty. Mr. Hawkins.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

He just said Ms. Saturnino.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

I’m sorry. Ms. Saturnino.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Saturnino

Thank you, Madam Chair. We’ve recently done some research, and that recent research shows that the Northwest Territories does not offer the lowest interest rate in Canada. There are a number of jurisdictions that offer loans with zero percent interest rates, or just offer grants straight across the board, such as the Government of Newfoundland.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Saturnino. Mr. Hawkins.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. That still doesn’t change the principle of the question, which is if somebody takes a loan through the loan program, goes and gets an education and they say to themselves if I’m only going to pay 2 percent interest to come back to the Northwest Territories regardless if its 2 percent, zero percent, 1 percent, I don’t really care, to be frank, low, low, and that’s the point. They say, well, I can get a job elsewhere. Well, it’s almost like it’s free money. So they choose to go elsewhere. That’s the issue.

The whole idea of the loan program is get people to come back and invest here in the Northwest Territories. So we invest in them and they come back and invest in us by working here. I’m asking about what type of evaluation and how do we crunch the numbers to encourage that if people choose not to come back to the Northwest Territories, which is their choice under mobility reasons, they’re certainly welcome to do that, we cannot make them do that. So should we re-evaluate our loan system to say if you want to go stay somewhere, whether you took your school in Toronto or who knows, Houston, Texas, wherever, and you want to stay there, that’s fine, but now you kick into the secondary loan interest rate program.

The whole idea is we send people out to get technical skills, training, well-educated people and bring that strength here back to the Northwest Territories. If we almost give it away, we’re really giving it away and what benefit has it been to the people of the Northwest Territories?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Minister Lafferty.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. Obviously, this whole remissible loan within the SFA area, we want to attract those individuals to come back to the North. As Mr. Hawkins alluded to reviewing, we are doing that as we speak. We want to evaluate our current system in place to make it more attractive, to make more incentives for those individuals who are going south. We want them to come back. If not, what other options can we provide to them? Mr. Chair, those are the areas we are currently reviewing. Mahsi.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Chairman, I asked this question well over three months ago and I’m still waiting for an answer. I’ve asked it in committee. The Minister said that they would get back to me. If it’s my error that I’ve received your response, which I’m pretty sure I haven’t, please resend.

The fact is my understanding is that no one has responded to me after three months on this issue. I, frankly, want us to find ways to ensure that we attract well-educated people back to the Northwest Territories. I think it’s of great value that we have people from the Northwest Territories who have spent most of their life or all their life here, going out, getting education and coming back to the Northwest Territories and continuing on to the next chapter of their life. I like us to find every reason to do that and I think maybe looking at a tiered loan system can do this.

We need to put pressure on people to say this really is your best choice, not your only choice, but your best choice. Can I get that information and perhaps maybe he could give me an idea when? This question is at least three months outstanding.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

I just did commit to that. Sometimes when it comes to a review, it does take time, but we will provide that information to the Members. Mahsi.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

I don’t know what else to say. I’ve already said it. I’ve already waited three months. The Minister says he’s going to come back to me, so I guess that’s it. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Any further questions, Mr. Hawkins? Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. General comments. Committee, are you prepared to go clause by clause?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, committee. I’d like to turn your attention to Bill 24, clause 1.

---Clauses 1 and 2 inclusive approved

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

To the bill as a whole.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Does committee agree that Bill 24, An Act to Amend the Student Financial Act, is ready for third reading?

---Bill 24 approved for third reading

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Bill 24 is now ready for third reading. I would like to thank Minister Lafferty for coming here today. I would like to thank Mr. Chutskoff and Ms. Saturnino for joining us today. If I could get the Sergeant-at-Arms to please escort the witnesses out of the Chamber. Thank you.

Ms. Bisaro, what’s the wish of committee?