This is page numbers 6207 – 6238 of the Hansard for the 17th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was water.

Topics

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

The Premier has indicated earlier today that consultants on the work that we did on the franchise agreement and whether we issued support to NTPC bidding was done in house. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Dolynny.

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To put the Minister’s answer in context, this was a response done in camera, so I can’t believe we are talking about that in the House here. But I can tell you that, quite frankly, Ordinary Members have not seen this report yet, so we are talking about a report that is still not before the House or before Members, and what we know is that I can’t comment on something we haven’t seen.

NTPC is the only organization set to gain anything from the expropriation of Northland Utilities, and yet the Minister of Finance claims to open up competition. Yet it is he who writes the policy and sets the rules for the electric industry.

Can the Minister explain how Cabinet is providing a path to competition and lowering of electricity rates when they’re working in a vacuum? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

In point of fact, my understanding is that the authority for bidding on franchises is enabled in the legislation for the Cities, Towns and Villages Act. It comes under the purview of Municipal and Community Affairs, and the community of Hay River – and every community has the right in the Northwest Territories – chose to trigger that process on their

own behalf after doing their own due diligence on what they thought would best meet their needs and help them deal with the high cost of living and the inequities between the power rates in the neighbourhood that they reside in in the South Slave. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Member for Frame Lake, Ms. Bisaro.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions today are for the Minister of Health and Social Services. I would like to follow up on my statement about the potential for getting the Avens expansion project off the ground this year, not in five or 10 years’ time.

I would like to first ask the Minister, I know that there has been a working group, a joint working group between the department and Avens that has been getting together and meeting and doing some work over the last number of months. I would like to ask the Minister, first off, for an update on where the work of the working group is at. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Minister of Health, Mr. Abernethy.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I and my Cabinet colleagues, as all Members in this House, are committed to the seniors of the Northwest Territories and obviously we want to make sure that our programs and services are meeting their needs. We as a department have Our Elders: Our Communities elders strategy which is focused on aging in place which ultimately does address or talk to the need for additional housing units or beds for seniors here in the Northwest Territories.

Avens is an incredibly important partner of ours and we have been working very closely with Avens to move their project forward. We have provided Avens with $25,000 to participate in the working groups to move this project along. We also helped, or rather, got out of the way of Avens so that they could move forward with the leveling of the ground on their campus. We do have a working group and as part of that working group there are two sub working groups and one of them is to continue to advance the partners to the GNWT’s capital planning process. Second is to participate in oversight of the financial model related to multi-year block funding and client rates outside of the current regulatory environment.

These aren’t simple questions. These require a significant amount of analysis and work. I know the Avens is frustrated with the progress, as are we. Recognizing that things haven’t been moving as fast as, say, Avens or even we had wished they would, the department is actually going to be

contracting with a consultant to support the detailed financial regulatory as well as legal analysis necessary to provide an accurate and comprehensive range of funding options to help move this project forward. I expect that work to be done in October. Thank you.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks to the Minister for the information. I have to reference his comment to Our Elders: Our Communities and that the focus of that is aging in place. That’s all well and good, but we all know that seniors reach a point where they cannot age in their own home, and that’s where we need to provide for them in a supportive living environment of some sort. So, I’m pleased to hear that there’s work going on. I’m dismayed to hear that it’s going to be October before there will be results, but I can appreciate that it’s complex.

So, I’d like to ask the Minister, in light of our changed financial landscape on the heels of the announcements from the federal government, has the Minister had an opportunity to consider our changed financial landscape, and if so, what new options does that provide for us in relation to this specific project? Thank you.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

The Cabinet has regularly spoken about our current fiscal situation and the fiscal realities facing both the government of today and the government tomorrow.

In the Premier’s statement earlier today, he said this increase to our borrowing limit gives the Government of the Northwest Territories increased flexibility to invest in much needed infrastructure that will support the responsible development of the Northwest Territories economy to bring down the cost of living for communities and residents. We’ve also been incredibly clear that this money is not intended to be used for operations or maintenance, which would be a big problem.

The construction of a new facility, the new 30 beds for Avens, comes with an O and M price tag as well. For instance, when we moved forward about five years ago with the development of the dementia facility on the Avens compound as part of the capital planning process, it also came with a $3.9 million annual operation and maintenance cost to hire staff and provide those services. All that money is coming from the Government of the Northwest Territories. The current facility also has a $3.4 million price tag for the long-term care beds or the supported living beds that exist within the Avens compound, and construction of a new Avens facility would come with increased O and M costs as well.

So, we have to make sure that we do our due diligence, that we do our analysis and that those costs are understood and reasonable and that we can afford to continue to provide those services. The build is just one part of it. The ongoing maintenance is another part. Thank you.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks to the Minister for that extensive response. I didn’t really hear an answer to my question about options based on our new financial situation. So, I would hope that that would be coming in the near future and I’d hope it would be a discussion that Cabinet would have in conjunction with Regular Members. It’s been promised, but we’ve seen no evidence of that yet.

So, I’d like to ask the Minister at this point, I appreciate that he’s doing everything he can, but we still have seniors who have nowhere to live. There was a situation that was highlighted in the paper last week, a senior who was being, he’s still there now, but a senior who is being removed from his current place at Avens and had nowhere to go to. So, until the Avens expansion is done, hopefully within a year, I’d like to know what the Minister is doing in the interim to accommodate seniors, like the one in the paper last week, who are in need of assisted or supported living housing. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

We’re doing a number of things. We’re doing things in partnership with the Seniors’ Society as well as our other health and social services authorities across the Northwest Territories.

The Member is aware that we have recently opened nine beds in Behchoko. We are in the middle of constructing nine more in Behchoko. There are 18 beds being constructed in Norman Wells. More beds were put into Fort Smith. This isn’t just a Yellowknife problem. We know that the Beaufort-Delta has experienced some real congestion there as well.

With the territorial admission process that all residents who wish to utilize our long-term care or, sorry, the supported living beds provided in our different facilities must go through. That process does an assessment on the needs, the risks and the factors, and we can put individuals in beds in different communities. There are some vacancies in Fort Smith that we have suggested are available, but we’re also moving forward with the construction of beds, which should help alleviate the burden in Yellowknife but it doesn’t take it away. I recognize that and we are working closely with Avens to make progress on the construction of more beds here in Yellowknife. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. Final, short supplementary, Ms. Bisaro.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thanks to the Minister again. I appreciate that we are building more facilities. I think the Minister mentioned 27 beds. Our waitlist, unfortunately, is probably at least twice that and probably more like three times that. So, those beds will be welcomed, but we need to get more beds, and Avens is an opportunity to do that.

From the Minister, I’d like to know the earliest date that he can give me for Avens to move ahead and build their facility with government assistance. Thank you.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

It would be impossible for me to give a hard and fast date. As the Member knows, we have a pretty thorough capital planning process, and for us to bring forward the project into the capital plan, we have to have a very, very thorough analysis articulated clearly, all O and M costs so that we can make decisions together as a Legislature.

I already mentioned the work that we’re doing in the department with our consultant, who is clearly going to be moving forward and doing the analysis needed to build that super strong business case that will allow us to move forward with this particular project. I’m hoping that we can have this work done in October, which will help inform the process. Hopefully, we can have something in the capital planning process in the near future. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. Member for Hay River North, Mr. Bouchard.

Robert Bouchard

Robert Bouchard Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In a follow-up to my statement, I have some questions for the Minister responsible for the Power Corporation. Obviously, he has indicated the Power Corporation will be bidding on the Hay River franchise.

Can I get an evaluation of what the Power Corporation did in order to decide that they were going to bid? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Bouchard. The Minister of the Northwest Territories Power Corporation, Mr. Miltenberger.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A review was done of costs in Hay River, all the publicly available information that was there in regards to the services provided. Then they also did their own estimates of the cost of potentially running those systems of the Hay River franchise, as well, and put forward those numbers, and they were then brought forward and assessed by a Cabinet committee.

Robert Bouchard

Robert Bouchard Hay River North

I’m just wondering if the Minister can indicate to me – obviously they have done an assessment and believe there can be a cost savings – have they done any assessment on what they expect that savings to be if they were to get it? Thank you.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

There are two numbers that are clearly known. One is the current

cost of power per kilowatt in Hay River, which is 31 cents and in Fort Smith and Fort Resolution it’s 21 cents. At this point, what I can say in the House is that it is anticipated that we would be able to significantly close that gap that now exists between the cost of power in Hay River and those in the neighbouring communities. Thank you.

Robert Bouchard

Robert Bouchard Hay River North

Along the lines of the Power Corporation and NUL competing against each other, has the Power Corporation looked at other jurisdictions where there is a Crown corporation and privately owned companies that compete and operate amongst each other and other utilities? I know there are some power and some phones, but just to know how they operation and how do we operate here compared to other jurisdictions. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

There is a very fragmented system in Alberta. BC has BC Hydro, which is their major power utility that has enormous sway over most of the province. But I would have to commit to get back to the Member. I don’t have any further information that I could just off the top of my head indicate what systems are in place in other jurisdictions, though I would say, clearly, in Ontario they have a utility and they are divesting themselves of some of their assets, and Manitoba Hydro, as well, is a very, very major utility in Manitoba. But I will commit to get back to the Member with the information.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Bouchard.

Robert Bouchard

Robert Bouchard Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In follow-up to my questions about the cost savings, has the Power Corporation put into the calculation the amount that it would cost to purchase the assets? I think there is $12 million on the books, but I think there has to be a premium if we’re taking a hostile takeover. Have we calculated that into the cost savings?