I do, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Does committee agree?

Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses into the Chamber.

Thank you. Mr. Miltenberger, could you please introduce your witnesses.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have with me Mr. Ernie Campbell and Ms. Susan Craig from Environment and Natural Resources, the deputy minister and finance.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Committee, we’ll open up the floor to general comments on the Department of Environment and Natural Resources. General comments. Mr. Blake.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just a few comments. This summer we had extreme fires here in the south, but in the coming summer I’m hoping to see more of our fire suppression crews in all the communities, especially in the Delta. We cut back over the last few years from Tsiigehtchic and other communities, Fort McPherson as well. I know we’ve really downsized over the last 10 years here. We used to have a lot of crews in many of the communities. I hope we do the same training as we usually did every spring and have people on hand and trained up in case of emergencies like we had this past summer.

Also, it’s good to see the Take a Kid Trapping and Prime Fur Bonus moved back to ENR. It was a concern that was raised that it was a part of ITI in the past.

Also, just moving forward, I know one of the communities would like to see their part-time position moved to full time. Right now it’s a part-time position. We just got a new facility there and people would like to see that position moved to full time. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Blake. Minister Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank the Member for his comments. In regards to the fire crews, I’ll let the deputy speak to that.

As well, I appreciate the comments about the Take a Kid Trapping. Those programs will continue to provide a high level of service in that regard.

In regards to the half-time position, at this point there are no plans to increase that to a full-time, but we will make note of the community’s interest in that area and will ask the deputy to speak to the fire crews. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. I’ll go to Deputy Minister Campbell.

Thank you, Deputy Minister Campbell. Mr. Blake.

Just on another note under the biomass, we have been working with the community of Fort McPherson quite a bit over the last couple of years and made a lot of progress. They are looking forward to building on that and possibly tie in other buildings within what system they have and also we can upgrade to maybe more systems. Is the department willing to work with the community? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Blake. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We’re very interested in pursuing biomass initiatives. There are those projects underway in the community, as the Member indicates. As we achieve success, we’re interested in looking at those. There are other ones with the

Willows and waste heat. I commend Fort McPherson, as well, for their initiative. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Next I have Mr. Nadli.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just have some opening comments. I was very interested, of course, in the progress towards updating the Forest Management Act and with the particular interest in terms of the non-timber forest products. I understand that’s still in the works at some point. Hopefully, we’ll see some progress towards that end.

Why I remain very interested in that is because, of course, the non-timber forest products pertain to the mushrooms in terms of how it is that this government will be responsible and manage them and ensure they’re sustainable at the same time. There are regulations in place so that there is at least some management regime to ensure the protection of such a vegetative species but, at the same time, ensuring that there are regulations in there so that people don’t over-harvest them.

I understand too, in that same light, there was an effort from the House here to set up an interim system so that, in the absence of the updating of the Forest Management Act, there will be at least an effort to try and set up a regime so that things are workable. Last year we experienced for the first time a major population from down south that came up in the Deh Cho area along the highway and harvested a lot of mushrooms. More than likely we’re going to see more people come up, especially in light of the major forest fires that we had. There needs to be at least a system in place so that there’s a regulatory system in place so that we can manage it at the same time. We can monitor it at the same time and ensure the sustainability of the morel mushrooms. That’s something that I remain interested in.

The other aspect of my general comments is on the forest management agreements that were recently signed in Fort Providence, and also, hopefully with some effort, to bring along other communities that will be interested in terms of entering into the business area of looking at biomass initiatives that we have, in the end, more likely a wood pellet mill and plant operated in the Deh Cho.

I think with the recent closing down of Strat Oil at Cameron Hills, the Deh Cho constituency that I represent and, at the same time, the South Slave region really need a boost of some kind to invigorate the economy to create jobs and business opportunities. This is the hope. The North Slave communities are looking forward to creating some jobs and business opportunities.

There are, of course, ongoing things such as the advancement towards our Water Strategy. There’s great leadership shown by this department in terms

of ensuring that there is a water strategy in place for the Slave that runs into Great Slave Lake, but equally important is the Liard that flows into the Mackenzie from northeastern BC. You know why that remains, in my eyes, fairly significant is because you have the Horn River Basin and we have major fracking activity that’s happening in that area, so any effluence would run down the Liard and on to the Mackenzie River. The development of a water strategy in northeastern BC going into the Liard and into the Mackenzie is something that more likely is advancing towards its final stages, and that’s very encouraging.

Just some other comments on this are government has made great efforts to develop a traditional land use policy framework and ensuring that we have guiding principles in terms of how this government is going to operate and manage the natural resources but, at the same time, trying to balance conservation and development. In that same spirit, there are initiatives out there within the region down the valley where some regions have taken the initiative to develop at least a conservation regime, ensuring that things are done equally in a balanced way. For the Dehcho, they’ve tried to move forward on our land use plan. This government has been involved in a tripartite regime. There have been efforts since 2001 to develop a land use plan, and that’s ongoing. I understand that there are five or at least seven issues that remain outstanding and hopefully it becomes resolved, unless it stays for greater things to come in terms of maybe forging the steps towards a final agreement of a land claim and self-government arrangement.

My other comment is mostly related to the forest fire experience. It was a major forest fire season last summer, of course. What we saw was the interruption in public travel. The riding that I represent is right on the Mackenzie Highway right from Alberta when you travel up to Yellowknife. It is uninterrupted. You can make the trip in a period of about seven hours, a day trip. It is very scenic. You have lots of things to see and do while you make your way up to Yellowknife. But that highway was closed a couple of times. I understand there was forest fire suppression, and management is another thing along with the Department of Transportation. The point that I’m making is that we need to learn from that experience. Hopefully, we come up with a very fluid system this summer. Those are just my comments. Mahsi.

Thank you, Mr. Nadli. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank the Member for his comments in regards to the morel mushroom situation. Our plan A is to come forward in time for passage in the May/June session with a very small amendment to the existing Forestry Act that will

give us authority to manage the morel mushroom situation. At the same time, over the longer term, the plan is to come forward and bring renewal or redoing of the Forestry Act to bring it into the 21st century. That will be a longer term project that will take place in the life of the 18th Assembly.

Plan B is if we can’t get that small, modest amendment through in time, then we will look at a policy solution, working with other departments like ITI, in terms of managing the morel season for this coming year.

In regards to the Forest Management Agreement, they are up and running. We have put in hundreds of thousands of dollars to support both Fort Providence and Fort Resolution. We know that there are other interests now from other communities, Jean Marie River and Kakisa specifically as they see the evolution of the project with Aurora Wood Pellets take shape and see the potential opportunities and benefits there. We are collectively more experienced in how to manage these and how to negotiate those agreements, so we are, of course, willing and we will be talking to these other communities.

In regard to the transboundary water agreements, we have final documents, for the most part, with Alberta, and hopefully by the end of this week we’ll have concluded our final discussions with BC on the final wording to the various appendices and the intent document itself which is going to be a major achievement on behalf of this Assembly, a process that started back in 1997. We are also quite confident, having initiated these discussions with Saskatchewan, that before the end of the Assembly, as well, hopefully even before the May/June session we will have concluded an agreement with Saskatchewan. There is work underway at revitalizing and modernizing the Yukon agreement, which is currently the only one in existence under the Mackenzie River Basin Transboundary Agreement.

We share the Member’s concern and interest under the Land Use Sustainability Framework and the Dehcho Land Use Plan as a government working with the Dehcho to hopefully conclude the outstanding issues that are there. We have now concluded land use plans in the Gwich’in, the Sahtu and the Tlicho, and there has been, as the Member has pointed out, years of work, and we think we can get there if we continue to apply ourselves.

The fire season, as the deputy mentioned, we’ve been doing a major review in anticipation of the upcoming fire season. There were some issues with the fires, as the Member pointed out, between here and Providence. There was inconvenience of some road closures, but those were considered essential just for vehicle safety and to avoid any accidents and fire that could take an unpredictable

turn if there were people on the road and things didn’t quite work out according to plan.

As we move forward this year, as the deputy once again has already pointed out, we’re going to be making sure we have our troops mobilized and that we’re on this situation very early, based on last year’s experience. There are going to be assessments done of the snow load and moisture content and those types of things. We are in year four of a major drought. We don’t think the snow pack this year is going to be sufficient enough to really put a dent into the drought conditions that were in existence when winter set in, plus there were modest fall rains, so a lot will depend on what the spring brings us. I will maybe ask the deputy just to quickly touch on some of the work that’s been done and the amount of reviewing and consulting as a result of the last fire season in anticipation for the upcoming fire season.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. I’ll go to Deputy Minister Campbell.

Thank you, deputy minister. Next on my list I have Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’ll just speak briefly. A few weeks ago I raised the issue of wanting to see further support from the department through the Arctic Energy Alliance for doors and windows. Since that time I’ve learned that there is an extremely small, I wouldn’t want to even call it meagre because that would sound like there’s something, but there is an extreme sliver of support for insulation, and I think we could be doing a lot more. I have yet to hear back from the Minister as to what the department plans to do or how they plan to move forward on that initiative.

Again, as I talked about that day, that’s where a lot of energy is created and consumed and certainly lost through things like exterior insulation, windows and doors. We could be helping a lot further. Although I would not necessarily speak in any way against things like woodstoves or pellet stoves or those types of heating devices, but if we really want to be talking about how we can save and use less energy, there is certainly one way to go.

I’m glad to see a little bit of what looks like headway on the area of recycling of electronics. That’s kind of nice to hear something is coming.

I would certainly like to hear a little bit on the issue of a tire shredder. That’s been brought up by me and I think at least one other Member or two other Members over the years. It isn’t a new item. It’s certainly one of good value that I think we could be doing something. No one community itself would be able to meet the demand one would normally need to own one, but we could run one up the valley and we could certainly lease it out to our good friends to the east and the west which, of course, is Nunavut and the Yukon. There could be some great opportunities there. Once we own an asset like that, we can ship it up the valley, do some work, do some good work, plus recycle those tires that are just sitting there in some of these communities that will never, ever move.

I would also like to see, over a period of time, some examination towards batteries added to the recyclable list and how we can find ways to get them back into some program rather than being tossed. The latest, of course, is the CF lightbulbs. People are having great concern about the mercury content in them and folks are just throwing them out into their normal waste that heads towards the dump. Of course, these things have turned out to be an interesting anomaly. Although they save you energy on the one hand, there’s mercury that leaches out of them on the other hand when they hit the dump. Work needs to be done and considered on what approach needs to be taken on that one.

There are other issues that I think should be considered on our recyclable list or our best sort of top 10 list on how we want to do business. What I would really like is suggest that the department look at consultation and a little bit of outreach as to what the community, as in the territory, feels about what would be good and useful from our aspect. Every community may have a different perspective, but it’s really nice to… I mean, quite often, and in the nicest sense, departments think they know best and they certainly try to do their best, but public demand could really be out there for things like tire shredders. When we go to communities, they always talk about having to get rid of waste. That’s just an example. What I’m saying, really, is the department should be reaching out for a little bit of

community consultation, get a little feedback and work towards stuff that makes sense in the NWT.

I can’t imagine us having ENR before us without talking about the fire season. This will be the year we talk about for generations to come, unfortunately. It will always be the subject at hand. Oh, geez. Can you remember the 2014 season? We’re barely starting the 2015 year and, of course, we’re going to be spending a lot of time comparing it. I think what’s going to have to happen here is I would really like to hear from the Minister as to a revision of policy, because there’s no way we can afford to keep fighting a $60 million fire if we have another low water year and a bad fire year. There’s just no way we can keep up with that and we’re going to have to start making some particularly interesting choices, choices no one’s going to want to make, especially during an election year, we all know. But the truth be told, it’s the fact that we’re supposed to be here for tough choices.

One issue that had come up, and I know they had done some recent consultation, of course, but one issue that had come up to me was, of course, an interesting one. I don’t know what value or what strategy the department will have, but I’d certainly like to see the department invest in sprinkler kits so we can be more prepared and allow residents to help fight their own fires by protecting their own assets such as their cabins.

The last issue I’ll make mention of is I had mentioned the other day in the House during questions about Giant Mine remediation. I think it’s funny. In my opinion, and I stress “mine,” it’s such a really good idea. I don’t know why people are ignoring it, which is trying to get the information out there to find someone else who will solve their problem.

In no way have I ever suggested the GNWT needs to invest the $10 million as a prize by trying to attract someone from who knows what corner of this earth, but somebody who has the power, ability, time and skills in order to help solve the arsenic trioxide problem. I understand the department will say it has too many things on the go. If we could do everything, we would do everything. I understand those answers. In all fairness, I realize that there’s some truth to that. But I brought this up over a year ago and we’re still no further ahead on this particular problem.

At times you think Ministers forget what it’s like to be on the Members’ side trying to find solutions to problems when you don’t have all the resources the departments have. On some of these it’s very frustrating to watch.

I look at our community. We’re sitting on basically the pill that could poison the world. Whether that is the truth or an outlandish exaggeration, the fact being is if the arsenic releases, it will do grave harm, one that would be so difficult to calculate and

I can’t imagine the comprehension of fixing it, which is maybe just one of those things that it just probably could never be fixed if it ever became a tragedy.

To me that’s why it’s so important that we start getting the information out there. I provided the example of crowdsourcing of ideas. It’s a new world. Someone who may have said crowdsourcing of ideas and funding an opportunity 10 years ago might have been the most foolish idea in the world, but it’s a different world. I look forward to the next 10 years where we will be looking at things we do today and we’ll be asking ourselves, why didn’t we spend a little more time on them. I’m not convinced it’s going to require a whole lot of time. I think, if the department spends a little resources on coming up with a bit of a strategy, I don’t believe it would cost a lot of money, especially compared to the fact that it is federal money but it’s $1.9 million to operate that in perpetuity of today’s dollars. It’s still a steal if we give it away at $10 million to somebody who could find a solution for that.

I don’t even know where to begin with a solution. That’s not my area, but like I said, the world is a funny place. Someone could be in Prague today working on something extremely similar or someone could be in Savanna, one of the states in the United States, or someone could be in Malaysia working on something similar. We just don’t know. But the great thing about the world is that the Internet has tied us together in the way that we communicate, and it’s difficult to foresee where it’s going to take us. That’s the exciting thing, is that all good ideas, I often think, are built on other good ideas. We always stand on the shoulders of giants just to see that little bit further through knowledge. Could this be the way to see just that little bit further to gain the knowledge? Maybe sometimes someone will be staring at the key to this particular problem at Giant Mine with the arsenic sitting there. The answer might be sitting right in front of them. Many discoveries, although we don’t have time today, have been made by great accident. But it was built on time, circumstance and raw genius being able to recognize the solution right in front of them. Accidents like Pasteur had by leaving his specimens on the table and coming back the next day and the world changed. It’s hard to believe, but he also had the skill of recognizing what he found. Excitement and breakthroughs have all started by being able to think differently and seeing the problem a different way.

Those are a few comments on the general department. I wish them well in this next budget year. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Minister Miltenberger.