This is page numbers 725-762 of the Hansard for the 18th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was program.

Topics

Members Present

Hon. Glen Abernethy, Mr. Beaulieu, Mr. Blake, Hon. Caroline Cochrane, Ms. Julie Green, Hon. Jackson Lafferty, Hon. Bob McLeod, Hon. Robert McLeod, Mr. McNeely, Hon. Alfred Moses, Mr. Nadli, Mr. Nakimayak, Mr. O’Reilly, Hon. Wally Schumann, Hon. Louis Sebert, Mr. Simpson, Mr. Testart, Mr. Thompson, Mr. Vanthuyne

The House met at 1:30 p.m.

---Prayer

Prayer
Prayer

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Good morning colleagues. Honourable house leader.

Point of Order
Point of Order

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order under rule 24(k), use of abusive or insulting language of a nature likely to create disorder. I have waited until today to raise this point of order because I wanted to review Hansard.

Yesterday, during her Member's statement, Ms. Green said while speaking of members of the public service, and I quote from page six of the unedited Hansard from Thursday, June 16th, 2016, "... while we may not like to speak to it, these higher levels raise possibilities of malfeasance and corruption in this spending of public funds." On the same page, Mr. Speaker, Ms. Green also said, "... these elevated amounts have increased the possibility of kickbacks and preferment." Mr. Speaker, the Member has raised some serious issues in her statement that could create doubts about the efforts and behaviours, not just of Cabinet, but of hard-working public servants in the NWT business communities, in the minds of the public. Perception is reality, Mr. Speaker. Using such strong language to suggest it is a possibility could very easily contribute to the public perception that the activities that the Member suggests could happen are actually or at least likely taking place.

Corruption and malfeasance are serious issues, Mr. Speaker. We would take those very seriously as a government. The Financial Administration Act and Contract Regulations are law, and we expect our employees to follow them. In addition, our employees are bound by a Code of Ethics that they must agree to follow. Rules are set out in the Financial Administration Manual to guide staff in proper contracting procedures, and advice and support is available to them from the Department of Finance and Procurement Shared Services. All noncompetitive procurement transactions have to be carried out under these established rules. They must all be properly justified, appropriately authorized, and recorded in SAM, the corporate financial management system.

If the Member has information about specific cases where this might have occurred, I urge her to bring those forward to the appropriate authorities, not paint the public service and the business communities with the same broad brush. Mr. Speaker, the remarks from the MLA from Yellowknife Centre seem to suggest a deep mistrust of government and its employees that I don't believe are helpful in advancing the business of the Assembly or maintaining positive relationships in this House.

I believe the Member's remarks violate the established rules and practices of the Assembly. On this basis, Mr. Speaker, I respectfully suggest that Ms. Green be directed to withdraw her remarks and apologize to the House. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Point of Order
Point of Order

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. On point of order, I will allow a debate. Member for Yellowknife Centre.

Point of Order
Point of Order

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this complaint is frivolous and vexatious. I have not impugned any motive to any person, business, or employee of the government. What I have said is that there is potential, with raised amounts of sole-source contracts, for improper conduct. The government has been very vigilant about the need to respond to assessing risk and to meeting that risk with extra vigilance. I am pointing out that this needs to be the case.

I have the greatest respect for the civil service. They are professionals who are doing their jobs to the best of their abilities. The government does and has a responsibility to guard against the loss of public property or funds. That is why, for example, we have segregation of signing authorities in the spending of public funds to ensure oversight and prevent problems. Major funds are involved in sole-source purchasing, $41.6 million, according to the last available report from two-and-a-half years ago. Under the new guidelines, sums as high as $100,000 could be spent sole-source.

It was not my intention, and nor did I say, that any individual is guilty of this action. I pointed out, with significant sums now authorized for expenditure under the elevated sole-source spending, that we must ensure sole-source spending is monitored closely. With elevated sums available, there is elevated risk. I know the government is paying close attention to the risk in its 2016-17 business plans, and that is as it should be. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Point of Order
Point of Order

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. On point of order. I will take the point of order on advisement. I will get back on the ruling within the next few days. Masi. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Minister of Education, Culture and Employment.

Minister’s Statement 59-18(2): Celebrating Student Achievement
Ministers’ Statements

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in education, our greatest successes are seeing the faces of students realizing that they have accomplished something remarkable. To see a student graduate with pride in their achievements, surrounded by their families, friends, and communities is one of the focuses of the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, and a priority of this Assembly.

Mr. Speaker, we are working to ensure our students have the opportunities and resources to realize those accomplishments. We are striving to provide a responsive, sustainable, and meaningful education system for our students, starting from our earliest learners to our older students. We have developed a continuum of education strategies to address the needs of our learners. Right from the Start, the Early Childhood Development Strategy, focuses on pre-school needs, providing services, programs, and opportunities for families with children to have the best start in life. We incorporate principles of play-based development and physical and mental stimulation in all of these programs. This is the period where children are learning to think, solve problems, create relationships, and learn. This is the most critical time in a child's life, to lay the foundation for future success.

Once a child enters the school system, Junior and Senior Kindergarten are bridges between early learning principles and more formal education. Education renewal in the NWT is already underway, focusing on the JK to the grade 12 system. Students are learning differently now than they did even ten years ago, so we have to teach the way they learn.

Education Renewal is targeting the different needs of students and focusing on their strengths and competencies. Self-regulation, resiliency, teacher and student wellness, identity, and connections to culture and tradition are all woven throughout the strategy. This is a continual process of building on successes, introducing initiatives, and working with education boards and councils to determine what is working and what needs improvement.

Beyond JK to 12, the Skills 4 Success Strategy focuses on improving employment success for NWT residents by closing skill gaps for in-demand jobs and more effectively responding to employer, industry, and community needs. With the Northwest Territories Labour Market Forecast and Needs Assessment and the Labour Market Information Resource, we can help northern residents with the opportunities available in the next 15 years.

Mr. Speaker, in 2015, we had the highest secondary school graduation rates in ten years, at 67 per cent across the territory. We certainly still have work to do, but the incremental increases we are seeing are encouraging. As well, Aurora College celebrated 111 graduates this spring, with degrees, diplomas, and certificates from the Schools of Business and Leadership; Education; Health and Human Services; Arts and Sciences.

Mr. Speaker, education is critical to the success of our territory. We must work together to provide a system that helps all students, regardless of where they live, how they learn, and what struggles or barriers they may need to overcome. We have the responsibility to provide an innovative and responsive education system accessible to all kinds of learners, which will create limitless opportunities for northern youth. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister’s Statement 59-18(2): Celebrating Student Achievement
Ministers’ Statements

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Ministers' statements. Minister responsible for the Status of Women.

Minister’s Statement 60-18(2): Gender Equality
Ministers’ Statements

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to provide an update on efforts to support gender equality in the Northwest Territories today. Equal opportunity for the development of the human potential of both women and men is a benefit to society as a whole and is the responsibility and concern of individuals, government, and non-government organizations. The Status of Women Council of the NWT, Native Women's Association of the NWT, Yellowknife Women's Society and the YWCA of Yellowknife have challenged us and other NWT politicians, policy makers, and individuals to take the short introduction to gender-based analysis plus, or GBA Plus, online training to show our commitment to inclusive and equitable policy and programming.

We have been challenged to take the training by Canada Day, July 1st. Those who have taken the training are encouraged to take a picture with their certificates and upload them to social media, tagging any or all of the women's groups. I have posted my certificate, and I encourage others to do so.

Gender-based analysis is an important tool for governments in advancing gender equality. The Government of the Northwest Territories has set the groundwork for GBA through the Equality of Women and Men in the NWT Policy but there is still a great deal of work to be done in this area. The Government of the Northwest Territories has made a commitment in its mandate to improve gender equity in appointments to territorial boards and agencies. Gender-based Analysis Plus is an analytical tool that we can use to look more carefully at the factors in that equity.

Mr. Speaker, in addition to this important initiative, I would like to provide a brief update on the 60thmeeting of the United Nations' Commission on the Status of Women in New York City. The Member for Yellowknife Centre and I attended as part of the national delegation led by Canada's Minister responsible for the Status of Women, the Honourable Patty Hadju. The delegation included provincial and territorial Ministers, as well as representatives from non-governmental organizations.

The meetings were an opportunity to attend sessions on women in politics, gendered wage gaps, empowerment of Indigenous women, addressing domestic violence in the workplace, and violence prevention. I also had the privilege of participating in two bilateral meetings at the invitation of Canada, New Zealand, and Sweden. New Zealand has faced similar challenges with violence against Aboriginal women and girls as well as family violence. In New Zealand, half the violence in the country is family violence. Key components to their plan are cultural identity, community leadership, and the understanding that protection for the family is protection for all. There were some very interesting perspectives and experiences that were shared. I look forward to exploring these further as possible best practices for the Northwest Territories.

Mr. Speaker, violence against women and girls remains a serious issue in the Northwest Territories. Our government has been working with other governments and the National Aboriginal Organizations to focus the national attention on violence against Indigenous women and girls. Earlier this year, I was also pleased to lead the Northwest Territories' delegation to the second National Roundtable on Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls in Winnipeg, where we had the opportunity to engage in the national discussion on how we can take action together to address the root causes of violence against Indigenous women and girls.

Efforts to address gender equality in the Northwest Territories need to be broad in scope, and involve many partners, such as the Gender-Based Analysis Plus initiative highlighted today. We need to learn and work with other governments, taking advantage of opportunities like the United Nations' meetings and the national roundtable. It is also key to make sure that research, planning, and coordination are well-guided at home.

Once again, I have challenged all MLAs to take the GBA Plus training by July 1st, and I look forward to seeing each Member's certificate on their Facebook pages. I also encourage each MLA to expand the challenge to all of their constituents. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister’s Statement 60-18(2): Gender Equality
Ministers’ Statements

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Ministers' statements. Minister of Aboriginal Affairs and Intergovernmental Relations.

Minister’s Statement 61-18(2): 2016 National Aboriginal Day
Ministers’ Statements

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, June 21stis National Aboriginal Day. This day is an opportunity for all Northerners to celebrate the rich and diverse cultures of the Northwest Territories' Aboriginal people and the wealth of traditions, lifestyles, and languages that make up the fabric of the Northwest Territories. As the only jurisdiction in Canada to recognize this day as a statutory holiday we are leading the way for the rest of the country through our strong commitment to honour the Dene, Inuvialuit and Metis people.

Our experience shows that we are stronger and more successful when we work together as partners. I believe the foundation for working together with our Aboriginal government partners has been solidly established through the Government of the Northwest Territories' commitment to engage with Aboriginal governments in the spirit of respect, recognition and responsibility. Mr. Speaker, our partnership approach is unique in the country, and I am proud to have had the opportunity to show the rest of Canada how we do business in the Northwest Territories while serving as Chair of national forums such as the Aboriginal Affairs Working Group.

The Aboriginal Affairs Working Group has provided an important forum for provincial and territorial Ministers of Aboriginal Affairs and the leaders of the national Aboriginal organizations to engage in collaborative and respectful dialogue on issues affecting Aboriginal peoples across the country. I am pleased to report, Mr. Speaker, that the partnership provinces have been forging with Aboriginal leaders since 2009 has now expanded to include the federal government. Last week I was pleased to co-chair the first meeting of the Federal, Provincial, Territorial and Indigenous Forum with the Honourable Carolyn Bennett, Minister of Indigenous and Northern Affairs. This new forum replaces the Aboriginal Affairs Working Group and includes the Federal Government as a full partner in addressing the issues that are important to Indigenous people in Canada. During our meetings last week, Ministers and Leaders confirmed a new relationship in support of improving outcomes for Indigenous people and promoting reconciliation in Canada.

Mr. Speaker, it has been an honour to have had the opportunity to chair the Aboriginal Affairs Working Group over the past two years. I am proud that the Northwest Territories will hold the distinction of being the final chair of the Aboriginal Affairs Working Group during the time that we achieved the long-standing goal of having the federal government become a full partner with us. I believe that the Federal, Provincial, Territorial and Indigenous Forum will be instrumental in providing national leadership to ensure a strong future for Indigenous people across the country. I look forward to working collaboratively with my national colleagues on issues affecting Indigenous people both throughout Canada and here in the Northwest Territories.

It is critical that we recognize that the full participation of Indigenous people is not only key to the wellbeing of communities, it is also key to the wellbeing of our nation. There can be no stronger economic, social, and just society than one that lifts up all citizens to take their rightful place in our country. This is the path to reconciliation and the Government of the Northwest Territories remains committed to this path for the Northwest Territories and for Canada.

Mr. Speaker, on June 21st, I invite all Northerners and all Canadians to join us in recognizing the many ways in which Indigenous people have contributed to the success of our territory, our country, and the important role they will continue to play in our future. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister’s Statement 61-18(2): 2016 National Aboriginal Day
Ministers’ Statements

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Member for Yellowknife North.

2016 National Aboriginal Day
Members’ Statements

Cory Vanthuyne

Cory Vanthuyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank you to the Premier for his eloquent words. Similarly, I will be speaking on the same. Mr. Speaker, next Tuesday we mark National Aboriginal Day in the NWT and across the country. Since the day was proclaimed by the Governor General 20 years ago, National Aboriginal Day has become an important celebration, a way for Canadians to honour the First Nations.

Over those 20 years, Aboriginal communities across Canada have gathered yearly in celebration, pride, and respect. Sadly, too often non-Aboriginal Canadians don't join in. Many don't recognize that this is a Canadian holiday, not an Aboriginal one. That must change.

Mr. Speaker, over those 20 years, some things have changed. Residential school victims received a prime ministerial apology. The Idle No More movement brought Aboriginal issues to national attention and garnered significant mainstream support. Most notable is the work of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. While its process was painful for everyone involved, the Commission's necessary work broke new ground. Its Calls to Action point the way for a healthier, more respectful future relationship between Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal Canadians.

I am proud that the government of the NWT moved quickly last year to respond to the TRC's Calls to Action. The TRC report outlined many areas where relations can be improved. The NWT made its intentions clear in response. However, there is work to be done.

Mr. Speaker, we can also take some pride in the NWT on what they have already done. Aboriginal languages are official languages here in the NWT. Our legislature sessions can be conducted in those languages. Our schools incorporate them. Our curriculum includes the residential school legacy, essential knowledge for us to bridge the gaps between us and build community.

Mr. Speaker, I am proud that the Northwest Territories leads the country by being the one jurisdiction in Canada where National Aboriginal Day is a full statutory holiday. I'm proud that I can work in this Assembly with my Aboriginal colleagues, with mutual respect and appreciation of our different heritage and cultures. The NWT leads the way for all Canadians to fully and respectfully partner with the Aboriginal nations in the Canada of the future. Mr. Speaker, the NWT should take the lead and formally campaign the federal government to finally declare National Aboriginal Day as a full national statutory holiday. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

2016 National Aboriginal Day
Members’ Statements

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Members' statements. Member for Kam Lake.

Reduced Tax Rates To Support Small Business
Members’ Statements

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Mr. Speaker, small business is the life blood of a diverse and thriving community. How well our economy is doing should be measured by private sector growth and job creation outside of the public service. Growing our private sector will increase competition and productivity, and give Northerners more choice for goods, services, and employment. These are real opportunities that this government cannot afford to ignore.

Mr. Speaker, this government has many programs that assist small businesses, but it needs to do more. Only by changing the foundation of our economy can we move forward. One solution is very simple: the government must send a strong signal that the NWT is open for business. Today, I am asking the government to keep its promise to Northerners and cut the tax rate for small businesses and make the NWT the most tax competitive jurisdiction in Canada's North.

No one can deny that small businesses create jobs, and in this year alone I have seen that happening all over my home community here in Yellowknife. From the restaurants now offering world-class gourmet fare, a brewery that soon will be expanding production, and a farmer's market that contributes nearly $1 million per year to the local economy, it is an easy thing to take pride in seeing all these entrepreneurs succeeding. I want to ensure this success and help all businesses reach their full potential and keep investing locally.

Mr. Speaker, this government ought to listen to local advocates for business. Yesterday, I tabled a letter from the Yellowknife Chamber of Commerce supporting a tax cut for their members and for all businesses here in the NWT. I want to thank the Chamber for their advocacy and again ask that this government be clear on delivering on its promise to cut taxes for small businesses.

Economic uncertainty is rife throughout the NWT, Mr. Speaker, both due to commodity prices and because of this government's unpredictability in its relationship with the private sector. That's why we need to assure potential investors and entrepreneurs that we are open for business and this is the best Northern territory to invest in. Mr. Speaker, let's be smart on our tax policy and provide the fuel for sustainable economic growth. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Reduced Tax Rates To Support Small Business
Members’ Statements

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Members' statements. Member for Nahendeh.

Congratulations To Graduates Of Thomas Simpson Secondary School
Members’ Statements

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Tomorrow afternoon, I will get the honour of attending the Thomas Simpson School graduation at the Papal site, weather permitting. If it is going to be bad weather, we are into the school.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate the 17 graduates and graduands for reaching this major milestone in their lives and achieving a major goal in their lives.

The uniqueness of the Thomas Simpson School graduation is that it has students from the smaller communities from the Nahendeh riding as part of this celebration. These students come from their small communities and spend three years of their lives away from their homes to achieve this goal. This year, we have two students from Nahanni Butte, Nathan and Josh, and one student from Wrigley, Rochelle. I know they had to face extra challenges by coming to Fort Simpson, but they succeeded. Part of their success is thanks to the couples that look after the residents to ensure the out-of-town student feel at home and have the support they need to graduate. I would like to thank them for making a difference in these young people's lives. I know these student will look back on this with fond memories.

Mr. Speaker, like I said on June 8th, I have to thank all the teachers, including Ms. Nathalie Lavoie, who is retiring at the end of this school year, all the principals, support staff from the Deh Cho Divisional Education Council, and other school support staff who worked just as hard to get these 17 to this stage. As well, I need to recognize and thank the communities, people who volunteer their time to offer out-of-school activities, friends, and most importantly family who were there to encourage them along the way. As well, it's time for them to be very proud of their graduates' success.

Mr. Speaker, I'm proud to say that I know a majority of these young people. Their commitment and hard work has finally paid off, and tomorrow afternoon will certainly be one of the biggest moments in their lives. They have a lot more to achieve.

Today, I want to pass this message on to these young people: I wish them the best in whatever future endeavours they choose. Please remember, education is a lifetime journey and it does not stop tomorrow. As a big supporter of youth and education, I look forward to seeing what they do next with their lives. To those of younger youth, like the Bompas kindergarten and grade six students who had their graduation ceremony last Friday, take a look at this year's grads and realize, just like them, you have what it takes to succeed and you can be a grade 12 graduate, too, one day. Just keep working hard, keep taking the challenges head on, realize that mistakes are learning opportunity, and dream big.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate each and every graduate in the NWT, whether it is high school, college, or university, for the achievement they are celebrating this year. I applaud the parents, families, teachers, and communities for the support that they have shown their students. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Congratulations To Graduates Of Thomas Simpson Secondary School
Members’ Statements

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Member's statement. Member for Yellowknife Centre.

Australian Campaign To Eliminate Family Violence
Members’ Statements

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I was thrilled to join the Minister Responsible for the Status of Women in New York in March for an important conference. We attended the 60thAnnual Meeting of the Commission on the Status of Women at the United Nations, with women from around the world and across Canada. I was inspired by the work being done to prevent violence against women and children.

Mr. Speaker, today I want to talk about one document that particularly impressed me. It's from Australia. "Change the Story" is a framework for the primary prevention of violence against women and children, published last year by a national organization called Our Watch. This report was peer-reviewed and it draws on evidence-based best practices.

Our Watch takes as a starting point that violence against women and their children is not inevitable and it is preventable. It is a prevalent and serious human rights abuse. Their goal is an Australia where women are not only safe, but respected, valued, and treated as equals in both private and public life. This goal is ambitious but realistic, if endorsed by the whole country.

Our Watch is responding to an urgent need for collective action. One woman is murdered by a current or former partner each week, and Australian police deal with over 600 calls a day related to domestic violence. Aboriginal women experience violence at twice the rate of non-Indigenous women. The scope of violence against women resonated for me, given that the high levels of violence against women in the NWT prompted us to describe family and community violence as a crisis in our mandate.

Their response resonated, as well. "Primary prevention requires changing the social conditions, such as gender equality, that excuse, justify, or even promote violence against women and their children." Primary prevention activities include social media campaigns, workplace initiatives, and school programs that change fundamental values and practises.

Everyone has a role to play. With government leading the way, a broad-based movement for change can and will bring about social transformation. Think about the campaigns to wear seat belts or end drunk driving, and you get the idea of the kind of movement they are talking about. Australia is a world leader in primary prevention, and it's time for us to join them. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Australian Campaign To Eliminate Family Violence
Members’ Statements

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Members' statements. Member for Frame Lake.

GNWT Liabilities For Prairie Creek Mine
Members’ Statements

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le Président

. My statement today is on the proposed Prairie Creek Mine, its precarious financial position, and the environmental liability at the site. This property was first discovered in 1928 and almost went into production in 1982 before silver prices crashed. The site is currently owned by the Canadian Zinc Corporation.

According to a 2016 Pre-Feasibility Study for Canadian Zinc, the company requires about $244 million to take the property into production. In its 2015 annual filing with the US Securities and Exchange Commission, the company noted that it has incurred losses of over $109 million since its inception. Last year, it lost over $8 million alone. In the latest available financial statements to December 31, 2015, the auditors stated there is "substantial doubt about Canadian Zinc Corporation's ability to continue as a going concern." Over the last five years, its stock has dropped from about 75 to 25 cents a share.

On the financial security side, the Minister of Lands tabled information in this House earlier in this sitting indicating that GNWT now holds financial security of about $2 million in cash, cheques, and a guaranteed investment certificate. There may be an additional $250,000 under a surface lease. Unfortunately, that lease limits the environmental liability of Canadian Zinc to a totally inadequate reclamation plan negotiated by the federal government whereby buildings do not have to be removed and the tailings pond can be simply abandoned as is. That lease expired at the end of 2013 and is currently in an over-hold tenancy status, with an annual payment of $5,680. It is not clear if GNWT now holds this lease, and what, if any, actions have been taken to renew the lease and ensure there is proper and adequate financial security to cover the current conditions of the site.

The calculation of the current environmental liability at the site is a complex one that is clouded by previous ownership of the site. Canadian Zinc itself claimed the environmental liability of the site was $9 million in 2014. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

---Unanimous consent granted

GNWT Liabilities For Prairie Creek Mine
Members’ Statements

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Mahsi, colleagues, and mahsi, Mr. Speaker. The federal government calculated the liability at over $19 million, should the site actually go into production. The Mackenzie Valley Land and Water Board settled on over $17 million. Clearly the financial security currently held would not allow for a proper remediation of the Prairie Creek site, and leaves the taxpayers at risk. In these times of fiscal restraint, this is not sound public policy. I will have questions for the Minister of Lands later today. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

GNWT Liabilities For Prairie Creek Mine
Members’ Statements

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Members' statements. Member for Deh Cho.

Supporting Parents In The Birthing Experience
Members’ Statements

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Escort support of pregnant women is limited. I have had several constituents come to Yellowknife to have their baby, and not one of them had their spouse there to help them. It's not because they did not want to; it's because we do not have the support in place for fathers during the delivery of their children.

Mr. Speaker, it is a very special moment in the lives of families when a woman delivers a baby. I think we can all agree that we try to make it as comfortable as we can as an experience, in that special moment when a child is born. Mr. Speaker, this government has identified that we need to grow our population. You know, if we have a low population, that indeed it also reflects our Territorial Formula Financing.

Mr. Speaker, it is only practical to grow our population, that we ensure measures are in place to support families so that programs and services reach parents and children through our Northern communities and they can grow into large, vibrant, and abundant families. Mr. Speaker, supporting families, including support for fathers so they can play a big role in the delivery of the children, is important and integral, and I'll have questions for the Minister later on. Mahsi.

Supporting Parents In The Birthing Experience
Members’ Statements

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Members' statements. Member for Hay River North.

Environmental Liabilities Associated With Northern Transportation Company Limited
Members’ Statements

R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We are all aware of NTCL's recent financial troubles. It's a territorial issue. Barging is an essential service for many of the communities up the Mackenzie and in the Arctic. Concerns about the delivery of fuel and other supplies have been addressed by multiple Members in this House.

Hay River is the base of operations for NTCL, and because of that we have additional concerns. Taking an educated guess, I would say NTCL probably has more land in Hay River than any other private entity, and probably by a large margin. Much of it is owned, but a fair amount is leased land. NT has operated out of Hay River for over 70 years. if they ultimately go under, there are serious concerns that these parcels of land will require extensive environmental remediation. There have also been barges sitting idle in the river for years, and there are questions about their effect on the environment.

The question is: who would be responsible for the clean-up of the lands and waterways? If leased lands are returned to the town, the Town of Hay River could be on the hook for millions. On top of this, the town is owed nearly $700,000 in unpaid property taxes.

Bankruptcy is not a foregone conclusion, but I'd like to know if the GNWT has a contingency plan as it relates to potential liabilities for the Town of Hay River. At the appropriate time, I will have questions for the Minister. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Environmental Liabilities Associated With Northern Transportation Company Limited
Members’ Statements

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Member for Great Slave.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd like to recognize a couple of individuals in the gallery today. My parents, Dick and Loretta Abernethy, are with us, as well as, all the way from Oxford, Nova Scotia, my aunt Diane Harrot is with us. This is the first time she's been to the Northwest Territories. Welcome to the gallery, welcome to the Northwest Territories. It's great to see you.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Member for Yellowknife North.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Cory Vanthuyne

Cory Vanthuyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I, too, want to take this opportunity to recognize our colleague's parents. They are also Yellowknife North residents, Dick and Loretta Abernethy, and of course Auntie Diane visiting. I also want to take this opportunity to recognize the executive director of the Yellowknife Chamber of Commerce, Deneen Everett. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Member for Yellowknife Centre.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. It is my pleasure today to recognize Emmanuel Lamvu, who is sitting to your right. He and his fellow student, Ivan Ceria, have been pages here and they are at the William McDonald School in Yellowknife. Thank you.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Member for Kam Lake.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to recognize Deneen Everett, executive director for the Yellowknife Chamber of Commerce. Thanks for doing all the hard work advocating for small businesses. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. If we missed anyone in the gallery, welcome to the Chamber. It's always great to have an audience. Masi. Item 6, acknowledgements. Item 7, oral questions. Member for Yellowknife North.

Question 247-18(2): Implementing Truth And Reconciliation Commission Recommendations
Oral questions

Cory Vanthuyne

Cory Vanthuyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions today are for the Premier. The GNWT has already set out a clear road map heeding the TRC's Call to Action, tabling Meeting the Challenge of Reconciliation last October. My question I'd like to ask the Premier is: what is the government doing to follow up on these commitments as a one-year anniversary of the TRC? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 247-18(2): Implementing Truth And Reconciliation Commission Recommendations
Oral questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. The Honourable Premier.

Question 247-18(2): Implementing Truth And Reconciliation Commission Recommendations
Oral questions

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We are working with all of the governments across Canada, and of course the Government of Canada, to make sure that all of the recommendations are followed up on. I guess the biggest area for us to follow up on is for residential school survivors that have indicated there is additional need for healing and reconciliation, and so we will be looking into what further action we should be taking in those areas. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 247-18(2): Implementing Truth And Reconciliation Commission Recommendations
Oral questions

Cory Vanthuyne

Cory Vanthuyne Yellowknife North

Thank you to the Premier for his reply. Mr. Speaker, when the Assembly of First Nations created the federal government on its delivery of the recommendation of the Royal Commission on Aboriginal People, the government earned an A grade on only one thing, and that was establishing a national Aboriginal Day. I would like to ask the Premier, will he commit to formally request that the federal government follow the NWT's lead in making Aboriginal Day a fully-fledged statutory holiday?

Question 247-18(2): Implementing Truth And Reconciliation Commission Recommendations
Oral questions

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I believe previous governments have done so, and we're quite prepared to do the same.

Question 247-18(2): Implementing Truth And Reconciliation Commission Recommendations
Oral questions

Cory Vanthuyne

Cory Vanthuyne Yellowknife North

That's appreciated, and I think that there might be some further consideration at the federal level given to that if we were to raise it again, so thank you to the Premier for that commitment. Then lastly, for the interests of the public, can the Premier describe how the GNWT will be recognizing Aboriginal Day in 2016?

Question 247-18(2): Implementing Truth And Reconciliation Commission Recommendations
Oral questions

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The government first and foremost, and the only jurisdiction in Canada has recognized this as a statutory holiday.

Question 247-18(2): Implementing Truth And Reconciliation Commission Recommendations
Oral questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Nahendeh.

Question 248-18(2): Procedure To Address Afterhours Issues At Small Airports
Oral questions

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, during the weekend of March 1st, there was some concerns raised about who you need to contact to get information on smaller airports. In the past, it was a regional staff, but I've heard this has changed. Mr. Speaker, can the Minister of Transportation please advise the House when it comes to dealing with afterhours issues for smaller airports, they do not have government staff. Who do they contact, and is there a 1-800 number? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 248-18(2): Procedure To Address Afterhours Issues At Small Airports
Oral questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Minister of Transportation.

Question 248-18(2): Procedure To Address Afterhours Issues At Small Airports
Oral questions

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think I missed the very last part of the Member's question, if it was a 1-800 number, but we take all airport safety and issues seriously in the smaller communities. If you cannot contact a local contractor, I suspect you can get right hold of the Department of Airports, which would be our local director.

Question 248-18(2): Procedure To Address Afterhours Issues At Small Airports
Oral questions

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

I thank the Minister for his answer. I guess my question is if you're going to be contacting the NWT or the Department of Transportation, is it a regional contact or is it a territorial Yellowknife contact?

Question 248-18(2): Procedure To Address Afterhours Issues At Small Airports
Oral questions

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

It probably depends on the issue, the concern that the people will have, so you can actually go through the regional person or come right directly to headquarters.

Question 248-18(2): Procedure To Address Afterhours Issues At Small Airports
Oral questions

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

I guess I should have clarified. These are after-hours issues on weekends. In the past, it's been my understanding, what I've been told by people in the communities that there was a regional contact. Now, it is territorial contract. Can the Minister confirm this is the practice?

Question 248-18(2): Procedure To Address Afterhours Issues At Small Airports
Oral questions

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

Any 24-hour issues that they may have with some of these airports, there's always a duty manager on location in Yellowknife. There's a flight supplement number, which could be accessed through a 1-8-7-7 number, which I can provide to the Member anytime they want. Airline companies, I suspect, are the ones that are having these issues, and they're probably well aware of this number, but we'll gladly share that with the Member anytime he wants.

Question 248-18(2): Procedure To Address Afterhours Issues At Small Airports
Oral questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Nahendeh

Question 248-18(2): Procedure To Address Afterhours Issues At Small Airports
Oral questions

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thank the Minister for that answer, and that's great to hear there's a 1-8-7-7 number. When the Minister talked about the contact being duty officer in Yellowknife, was this always the practice to have the duty office in Yellowknife deal with it, or was it a regional office? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 248-18(2): Procedure To Address Afterhours Issues At Small Airports
Oral questions

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

Centralizing the functions of the duty manager resulted in the department saving over a quarter million dollars by identifying more effective and cost-saving practices for answering calls received afterhours.

Question 248-18(2): Procedure To Address Afterhours Issues At Small Airports
Oral questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Kam Lake.

Question 249-18(2): Reduced Tax Rates For Small Business
Oral questions

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, yesterday I tabled some correspondence for the Yellowknife Chamber of Commerce that advocates to decrease the small business tax rates to two per cent, and the larger business tax rate by one per cent, which would give the Northwest Territories the lowest and most competitive tax rates for businesses in Canada. The Minister of Finance indicated he supports this recommendation.

Question 249-18(2): Reduced Tax Rates For Small Business
Oral questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Minister of Finance.

Question 249-18(2): Reduced Tax Rates For Small Business
Oral questions

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Yes. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as part of our mandate, I believe the support to small businesses was part of the 18thLegislative Assembly's mandate, and it is something that we would have to consider. We're going through an exercise and a budget session right now. We will be taking part in our business planning process in September, and we know it is part of the mandate. It is a concern of many of the Members in this Assembly, so as we continue to go forward, we will explore the possibility.

I can say that we have probably about 50 per cent of our small business is in the Northwest Territories, I believe, don't pay any tax at all, but having said that, recognizing that it is in the mandate and a priority of many of the Members, it's something that we would have to consider.

Question 249-18(2): Reduced Tax Rates For Small Business
Oral questions

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Not sure if that was a clear commitment to the recommendation, but I appreciate that the Minister's speaking about developing approach. Can I take that to mean that by the next budget, Mr. Speaker, we will have a small business tax cut continued in that budget?

Question 249-18(2): Reduced Tax Rates For Small Business
Oral questions

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Mr. Speaker, I can't make that commitment here as to what's going to be in the next budget without going through the budget planning process, and as part of that process is the business planning process in September, which we take part in along with the Regular Members. So I'm sure the issue will be raised at the time, and it's something that we can determine then, if it's financially viable to include into next year's budget cycle.

Question 249-18(2): Reduced Tax Rates For Small Business
Oral questions

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Mr. Speaker, certainly, we on this side of the House can advocate for things, but the department needs to drive the bus. Will the department be bringing forward in their next business plan a tax cut for small businesses?

Question 249-18(2): Reduced Tax Rates For Small Business
Oral questions

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

I appreciate the Member letting the department drive the bus when it's convenient for Members on the other side. We will work with the Members as we have committed to do, and bring in a lot of the issues in the mandate forward. There's times where we try being erased to the bottom with the other jurisdictions across the country as far as business tax go, and in our case, because of the high cost of delivering programs and services up here, it gets to be a little unaffordable.

I have made the commitment to work with Members opposite when we go through our business planning process, and as we develop our Main Estimates for next year.

Question 249-18(2): Reduced Tax Rates For Small Business
Oral questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Kam Lake.

Question 249-18(2): Reduced Tax Rates For Small Business
Oral questions

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, year on year, corporate tax revenue has shrunk. I think that sends a signal that we are losing investment. Measures like this send a clear signal that the North is open for business, and we aren't drawing much from our small tax, our small taxes anyway. It's a sacrifice that will result in economic growth. It's supported by many in the Northwest Territories, including our business community. I'd like the Minister to give a firmer commitment that it will be in the business plan for the fall sitting. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 249-18(2): Reduced Tax Rates For Small Business
Oral questions

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Mr. Speaker, there's a number of reasons why business is not as lively across the Northwest Territories as it usually is. Part of it is because of lack of investment, and what we're trying to do going through the exercise that we're going through now is to have more money that we can invest into more opportunities for our businesses to take advantage of some of the money that we will make available.

Again, it is an issue that needs further discussion, and I have committed to being a part of those discussions with the Members across the floor, and with my Cabinet colleagues as well. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 249-18(2): Reduced Tax Rates For Small Business
Oral questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Yellowknife Centre.

Question 250-18(2): GNWT Campaign To Eliminate Family Violence
Oral questions

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions are for the Minister of Health and Social Services. The most recent anti-violence campaign in the NWT was called What Will It Take. It was aimed at changes by standard responses to violence against women. Can the Health and Social Services Minister report on what that campaign accomplished, including how many people took the workshops and where they were offered? Thank you.

Question 250-18(2): GNWT Campaign To Eliminate Family Violence
Oral questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Minister of Health and Social Services.

Question 250-18(2): GNWT Campaign To Eliminate Family Violence
Oral questions

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as the Member has indicated, the campaign was intended to break down some of the myths and stigma that exist around family violence and create awareness. The program has had a number of workshops delivered across the Northwest Territories. In 2015-2016, as an example, there were 26 workshops that took place. Twelve of those were facilitated by the Status of Women with 146 participants in communities across the Northwest Territories. We also had other facilitators providing the workshop. FOXY facilitated 14 sessions for youth across the Northwest Territories. I don't have the participation numbers for the number of people who attended the FOXY sessions, but I will get that information and share it with the Member and committee.

Question 250-18(2): GNWT Campaign To Eliminate Family Violence
Oral questions

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you to the Minister for that answer. Does the Minister have an evaluation of this campaign that he could share with the House, other than strictly relying on participation numbers?

Question 250-18(2): GNWT Campaign To Eliminate Family Violence
Oral questions

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Mr. Speaker, in 2015, the Department of Health and Social Services worked with the Program Review Office to develop a comprehensive evaluation of framework for the What Will It Take campaign. Based on this frame work, the new participation feedback forms are being developed, and they will be completed in time to provide to participants during the 2016-17 delivery of What Will It Take, and that will help us get the information and evaluate the effectiveness of the program long-term.

Question 250-18(2): GNWT Campaign To Eliminate Family Violence
Oral questions

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you to the Minister. It's good to hear that these plans are in place and going forward. How does the Minister plan to follow up the What Will It Take campaign, or alternatively, can he advise us how long this campaign will run for?

Question 250-18(2): GNWT Campaign To Eliminate Family Violence
Oral questions

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Mr. Speaker, the department has $82,000 in annual funding, and ongoing funding which was available to implement What Will It Take training across the Northwest Territories. We're looking at branching out and launching a broader media campaign to create awareness of the program, but also to start working to break down some of the other myths that exist around family violence.

We have been attending the community healthy living fairs that have been taking part in the Northwest Territories and we’ve been promoting What Will It Take. We intend to keep running this program. How it looks in the future will depend completely on the evaluations and the effectiveness, which we'll be in a better position to assess once the questionnaires have come in after the 2016-17 delivery of the What Will It Take campaign.

Question 250-18(2): GNWT Campaign To Eliminate Family Violence
Oral questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Yellowknife Centre.

Question 250-18(2): GNWT Campaign To Eliminate Family Violence
Oral questions

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you to the Minister for that. My last question is in reference to the change to the strategy, sorry, Change the Story strategy which I referenced in my statement. What would it take for the Minister to create a territorial primary prevention strategy on violence against women?

Question 250-18(2): GNWT Campaign To Eliminate Family Violence
Oral questions

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Mr. Speaker, we work in cooperation between the departments, and addressing family violence is a priority for the Department of Justice, Department of Health and Social Services. Education, Culture and Employment clearly has a role in helping break down some of this with younger people and youth, and the Status of Women certainly as a partnership. We work together trying to come up with mechanisms and programs that will help us break down the stigma and reduce family violence.

I hear the Member. I'm not familiar with the program that she is describing. I'd certainly love to sit down with the Member and committee and get a bit of an update on what she has learned and see if we can share that with departments to move forward, to continue to combat violence against women and children in the Northwest Territories.

Question 250-18(2): GNWT Campaign To Eliminate Family Violence
Oral questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Deh Cho.

Question 251-18(2): Support To Participate In The Birthing Experience
Oral questions

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, Sunday will be Father's Day. I'm hoping that the Minister of Health and Social Services could deliver some good news. Mr. Speaker, could the Minister of Health and Social Services please explain the existing support for families during the delivery of their children?

Question 251-18(2): Support To Participate In The Birthing Experience
Oral questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Minister of Health and Social Services

Question 251-18(2): Support To Participate In The Birthing Experience
Oral questions

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There are physicians across the Northwest Territories providing obstetrics services. We also have midwifery services in Fort Smith, Hay River, as well as the MORE OB program up in Beaufort Delta, and we have birthing here in the Northwest Territories. Unfortunately, and I think it's to the Member's point, there are individuals that do have to come out of their smaller communities to centres like Yellowknife or Fort Smith, Hay River, or Inuvik to facilitate birthing. To bring those individuals in, the mothers, we do bring them in on medical travel and we do provide, whether it's one of our boarding homes or other mechanisms, places for them to stay when they have to come to one of the centres. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 251-18(2): Support To Participate In The Birthing Experience
Oral questions

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

I thank the Minister for acknowledging that. Our challenge with supporting family, yet from small communities, pregnant women have to be brought here for their own safety and wellbeing at Yellowknife, and they stay here for extended periods of time, and they're separated from their children. Can the Minister explain, how does the department support fathers to ensure that they could be with their spouses during the special moment at delivery?

Question 251-18(2): Support To Participate In The Birthing Experience
Oral questions

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Mr. Speaker, unless there's a clinical need, medical travel isn't available or escorts aren't available for birthing mothers who have to come to one of the centres, and it is up to the family, the father, to find their own way to the central location where the birthing is going to take place.

Question 251-18(2): Support To Participate In The Birthing Experience
Oral questions

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

Mr. Speaker, there's been discussions in terms of the efficiencies in terms of government spending and revenues, and one of the focus points has been the issue of medical travel. Will the Minister commit if there is perhaps down the road an opportunity to review the program, would the Minister commit to ensure that the involvement of fathers during the delivery of their children is considered with the view of trying to support families in that special moment?

Question 251-18(2): Support To Participate In The Birthing Experience
Oral questions

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Mr. Speaker, medical travel is actually currently being reviewed and one of the pillars that is being reviewed is escorts when and how they should be supported. We did go out for public engagement. We got a significant amount of feedback from residents across the Northwest Territories as well as other stakeholders and we are moving forward with that plan. I’ll have a conversation with the department, certainly, and I’m certainly willing to continue to have a dialogue and discussion with the Members across the floor about what we should be covering under escorts. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 251-18(2): Support To Participate In The Birthing Experience
Oral questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Deh Cho.

Question 251-18(2): Support To Participate In The Birthing Experience
Oral questions

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I didn’t hear a commitment from the Minister. Will he commit once again to support the review of medical travel at the same time with the view of support and follows to be involved and besides their spouses, during the moment of delivery of their children? Yes or no? Masi.

Question 251-18(2): Support To Participate In The Birthing Experience
Oral questions

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

I’m not going to commit at this time to covering fathers during birth, but I will certainly look at exploring the possibility of how we can be, you know, provide better support and other mechanisms. But at the end of the day, our medical travel is incredibly expensive. We have escorts for certain criteria. Criteria like a patient who is under 19 years of age who needs an escort. A patient who is breastfeeding an infant and requires an escort. A patient who has a medical or physical disability of a nature that they require an escort. There’s a lot of criteria that we have to apply and in the situation of birthing, those situations may not apply unless there’s a clinical need on behalf of the mother. But we will certainly look at it, Mr. Speaker.

Question 251-18(2): Support To Participate In The Birthing Experience
Oral questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral question. Member of Hay River North.

Question 252-18(2):impacts Associated With Northern Transportation Company Limited
Oral questions

R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Earlier, I spoke about NTCL. My questions are for the Minister of MACA and he might have to tap into his expertise in Finance and Lands as well.

---laughter

NTCL owes about $685,000 in property taxes, last time I checked, to the town of Hay River. Does the department have a contingency plan for this money, if NT can’t pay it, as the town’s an unsecured creditor? Or is the town expected to absorb this cost? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 252-18(2):impacts Associated With Northern Transportation Company Limited
Oral questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Minister for Municipal and Community Affairs.

Question 252-18(2):impacts Associated With Northern Transportation Company Limited
Oral questions

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my first advice to the town would be to seek some advice from their lawyer or their accountant and in fact, I would advise all communities that find themselves in this similar situation to seek the proper advice. If the $685,000, or $600,000, just close to $700,000 is owed for property taxes, the town does have the ability to explore the recovery taxes as per the Property Assessment and Taxation Act, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Question 252-18(2):impacts Associated With Northern Transportation Company Limited
Oral questions

R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

s I stated earlier, NT’s probably the largest holder of land in Hay River, by quite a large margin. Is the government aware of how much land will revert back to the GNWT if NTCL does go bankrupt or how much will revert to the town or how much will revert to the feds.

Question 252-18(2):impacts Associated With Northern Transportation Company Limited
Oral questions

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

The Member is correct. The company does own a large number of properties in Hay River. As for the actual number of which ones are, if any are GNWT owned, I would have to follow-up and get that more detailed information and how much is owned by the town. So I’ll commit to the Member that I’ll try, I’ll work to get a breakdown of exactly where these properties are from, if they’re leased, they’re owned and I will provide that information to the Member.

Question 252-18(2):impacts Associated With Northern Transportation Company Limited
Oral questions

R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

I thank the Minister for that. My next question is the town, the land that does revert to the town or the GNWT, well, I guess the town is my concern. Much of it is going to need environmental remediation. I mean, NT’s been there for 70 years, there’s you know, hydrocarbon contamination on a lot of the sites. There’s contamination from paint, from all this kind of stuff. So is the town responsible for the environmental remediation? Because it could be tens of millions.

Question 252-18(2):impacts Associated With Northern Transportation Company Limited
Oral questions

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Mr. Speaker, the environmental remediation would be the responsibility of the owners. So if the town owns the land, responsibility for remediation would be theirs. If the GNWT owns the land, then the responsibility for the remediation would be the GNWTs. We have an Environmental Liabilities Committee, which would do an assessment whether contamination exists on the land and so the land would go to on our environmental liabilities list and would be remediated according to the GNWT priority and procedures. Unfortunately, this is one of those cases where whoever owns the property would be responsible for the remediation.

Question 252-18(2):impacts Associated With Northern Transportation Company Limited
Oral questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral question. Member of Hay River North.

Question 252-18(2):impacts Associated With Northern Transportation Company Limited
Oral questions

R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

I believe this is my last question. My fourth.

---laughter

I’m also concerned about the waterways because there’s been barges sitting idle for years and I’m wondering who’s going to be responsible for the clean-up of that? Is that a federal responsibility or is that something the GNWT is going to help out with?

Question 252-18(2):impacts Associated With Northern Transportation Company Limited
Oral questions

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Mr. Speaker, as far as the waterways go, that would still be a federal responsibility, so it seems that in this case, it could be, you know, the town has some interest in it, the GNWT may have some interest in it and the Government of Canada may have some interest. So I think it would be wise for the three organizations to get together and decide a plan to do some remediation if the company goes, I mean, the company is in receivership, so we’ll have to come up with a plan going forward. But I do know on the government side of it though, we do have our committee that would do an assessment on any remediation that we might be responsible for.

Question 252-18(2):impacts Associated With Northern Transportation Company Limited
Oral questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Frame Lake.

Question 253-18(2):financial Security Associated With Prairie Creek Mine
Oral questions

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Masi, Mr. Speaker. Maybe it’s environmental liabilities day or week. I apologize, I didn’t give the Minister much heads up on this. It’s been a busy week. Earlier this week, I made a statement about the significant financial security shortfall for the Cantung mine and how our government really didn’t deal with the issue after we inherited the site under devolution. Today, though, I made a statement about the significant financial security shortfall for the Prairie Creek site. Can the Minister of Lands tell this House whether the GNWT holds the surface lease for the Prairie Creek site? Masi, Mr. Speaker.

Question 253-18(2):financial Security Associated With Prairie Creek Mine
Oral questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Minister of Lands.

Question 253-18(2):financial Security Associated With Prairie Creek Mine
Oral questions

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Mr. Speaker, the answer is yes, the administration and control of the site has been transferred to the GNWT. However, through provisions of the Devolution Agreement, any historic liabilities are still the responsibility of Canada.

Question 253-18(2):financial Security Associated With Prairie Creek Mine
Oral questions

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

I appreciate the answer from the Minister. There are terms and conditions in that lease that limit the liability of Canadian Zinc and leave GNWT taxpayers at risk of having to pick up the unfunded liability of the site, which could be as little as $6.5 million or perhaps as much as $19 million. That lease is also in over-hold tenancy right now. Would the Minister tell this House what actions he is taking to close the financial security shortfall under the lease?

Question 253-18(2):financial Security Associated With Prairie Creek Mine
Oral questions

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Mr. Speaker, as the Member noted, the current lease is in an over-holding tenancy and production is not allowed on this lease. Under the NWT Lands Act, the company will need to negotiate a new surface lease that allows for production and at that time, we’ll negotiate updated securities in the context of the most up-to-date reclamation plan. The Member is correct that there is some liability that’s held there and he mentioned the figure 2 million and out of that, $250,000 was for the surface lease.

Question 253-18(2):financial Security Associated With Prairie Creek Mine
Oral questions

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

I appreciate the response from the Minister. The issue is, the security under the lease is not going to cover what’s actually at the site now. The issue is this company is having some financial issues. I outlined the financial warning signals on Prairie Creek in my Members’ statement. Can the Minister tell us what work his department does to monitor and track the financial stability of companies where we hold financial security and if we have developed thresholds or triggers for us taking action and the action might include things like bumping up security or turning the site back to the federal government.

Question 253-18(2):financial Security Associated With Prairie Creek Mine
Oral questions

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Mr. Speaker, as I said in my opening response, the federal government has accepted responsibility for historical remediation or liabilities. However, on a go-forward basis, the Department of Industry, Tourism and Investment, they monitor the activities of the mineral and development petroleum companies operating in the NWT and including the financial status of the company and the work is delivered through ITI’s financial analysis and royalties administration division. As much as we would like all the companies operating in the NWT to be financially stable, our main concern is to ensure that we have all the proper securities in place so that if they were to have some financial trouble, at least we would have the protection of remediating any liabilities that might occur.

Question 253-18(2):financial Security Associated With Prairie Creek Mine
Oral questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Frame Lake.

Question 253-18(2):financial Security Associated With Prairie Creek Mine
Oral questions

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Again, I appreciate the answer. In the absence of any action by our government to ensure full and adequate security for Prairie Creek, it’ll be increasingly difficult to demonstrate due diligence. Without due diligence, it will be harder and harder to turn this site back to the federal government.

The clock is ticking and we have less than three years to sort it out. Can the Minister commit now to voluntarily turn the Prairie Creek site back to the federal government to avoid us picking up the expenses of remediating another contaminated site? Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Question 253-18(2):financial Security Associated With Prairie Creek Mine
Oral questions

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Mr. Speaker, my understanding is that any remediation that needs to be done at this site when it was, now, is the responsibility of the federal government. On a go-forward basis, we need to ensure that as the Member said, we need to ensure that we’re doing our due diligence to ensure that this government and the people in NWT are adequately protected when we have these sites going up.

I’ll explore this further and see if there’s any options out there. We want to ensure that we protect anything that we’re responsible for since taking over those responsibilities through devolution.

Question 253-18(2):financial Security Associated With Prairie Creek Mine
Oral questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Oral Questions. Member for Kam Lake.

Question 254-18(2):status Of Open Government Policy
Oral questions

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Mr. Speaker, can the Minister for Transparency and Public Engagement let members of the public and Members of this House know how the Open Government Policy is coming along? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 254-18(2):status Of Open Government Policy
Oral questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Minister of Transparency and Public Engagement.

Question 254-18(2):status Of Open Government Policy
Oral questions

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Yes, Mr. Speaker. Of course, this is one of the topics that’s going to be on our agenda for the summer caucus. We are doing research in this area and we’ll hopefully be presenting some options to caucus when we meet in the summer.

Question 254-18(2):status Of Open Government Policy
Oral questions

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Has the Minister reached out to other jurisdictions and learned what they are doing with open government policies? I know that the federal government has made a commitment to having open government policy by next year.

Question 254-18(2):status Of Open Government Policy
Oral questions

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, we have looked at initiatives that are taking place in other jurisdictions. Hopefully, they will provide some guidance to us as to the options that we will be looking at in our jurisdiction.

Question 254-18(2):status Of Open Government Policy
Oral questions

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Does the Minister intend to have a work plan or a schedule completed by the end of the fiscal year? Can he make that commitment?

Question 254-18(2):status Of Open Government Policy
Oral questions

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

As I mentioned earlier, Mr. Speaker, we are working on this and we would hope to have such a plan by the end of the year.

Question 254-18(2):status Of Open Government Policy
Oral questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Oral Questions. Member for Kam Lake.

Question 254-18(2):status Of Open Government Policy
Oral questions

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I’ve often criticized this government for gloom and doom. It’s good to hear hope from the other side of the House. Can we get a commitment, though, rather than just hopes? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 254-18(2):status Of Open Government Policy
Oral questions

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

I’m not sure of the exact dates, but we will have such a plan in due course, hopefully by the end of the year.

Question 254-18(2):status Of Open Government Policy
Oral questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Oral questions. Member for Yellowknife Centre.

Question 255-18(2):status Of Mackenzie Valley Highway Business Case
Oral questions

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Masi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, these questions are for the Minister of Transportation. The Minister of Transportation said in this house that the Department of Transportation had submitted a detailed business case to the Government of Canada proposing a $700 million investment in an all-weather highway from Wrigley to Norman Wells. We would like to see on this side of the House, this detailed business case and I wonder if the Minister can tell us where and when we will receive that? Thank you.

Question 255-18(2):status Of Mackenzie Valley Highway Business Case
Oral questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Minister of Transportation.

Question 255-18(2):status Of Mackenzie Valley Highway Business Case
Oral questions

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

I’ll have to check with the department and I know we’ve submitted one on the Mackenzie Valley Highway and see where that’s at. I believe it’s going back and forth with the federal government. I will endeavour to check on to it and get back to the Member on that.

Question 255-18(2):status Of Mackenzie Valley Highway Business Case
Oral questions

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thanks to the Minister for that answer. Can he tell us at what point he’s going to share this business case in any form with this side of the House?

Question 255-18(2):status Of Mackenzie Valley Highway Business Case
Oral questions

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

As I said, I will look into it with the department and see where we’re at with the Building Canada Plan and if we’re available to share that, I will share it with the other side of the House as soon as I can.

Question 255-18(2):status Of Mackenzie Valley Highway Business Case
Oral questions

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Speaker, I’m also looking for a document that is a macro-economic policy framework blends application to the Fortune Minerals Tlicho road. I’m wondering if the Minister of Transportation can share that document with this side of the House?

Question 255-18(2):status Of Mackenzie Valley Highway Business Case
Oral questions

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

Again, I will have to check with the department and see where that’s at, see if we’re able to share that document as it has a bunch of detailed information, I believe, in it that I’d have to check on.

Question 255-18(2):status Of Mackenzie Valley Highway Business Case
Oral questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Oral questions. Member for Yellowknife Centre.

Question 255-18(2):status Of Mackenzie Valley Highway Business Case
Oral questions

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, could the Minister of Transportation articulate the terms under which he will share documents for which he is responsible with this side of the House? Than you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 255-18(2):status Of Mackenzie Valley Highway Business Case
Oral questions

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

Any correspondence that we need to, that we are able to share with the Members of the Assembly, we will share through committee or through tabling of documents in this House [indiscernible] --

Question 255-18(2):status Of Mackenzie Valley Highway Business Case
Oral questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Can the Minister repeat that? The mic. wasn’t on.

Question 255-18(2):status Of Mackenzie Valley Highway Business Case
Oral questions

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

I forgot what I said, no.

---laughter

Question 255-18(2):status Of Mackenzie Valley Highway Business Case
Oral questions

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

I said, yes. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’ll have to check on the department, on what we can share with the public and what we can share with the committee and we’re willing to share anything we can through committee or through public release of documents or tabling documents in the House.

Question 255-18(2):status Of Mackenzie Valley Highway Business Case
Oral questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. I think that was what he said earlier.

---laughter.

Now it is on the record. Masi. Oral Questions. Member for Nahendeh.

Question 256-18(2): Procedure To Address Afterhours Issues At Small Airports
Oral questions

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

I’m just going to ask a couple more questions to my favourite new Minister of Transportation. In regards to our conversation today, we were talking about, or our Q and A session here, we were talking about the airports and that. Can the Minister please advise us how somebody from Yellowknife, a duty officer is able to provide good information to the airlines that are outside when he has no experience in those communities?

Question 256-18(2): Procedure To Address Afterhours Issues At Small Airports
Oral questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Minister of Transportation

Question 256-18(2): Procedure To Address Afterhours Issues At Small Airports
Oral questions

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

As I mentioned earlier in the day, we have the 1-800 number that is set up to have contact with the duty officer. That’s normally the procedure for this type of communication. But as I earlier said, they can also go to the regional person and that can be relayed on up to the chain of command. Thank you.

Question 256-18(2): Procedure To Address Afterhours Issues At Small Airports
Oral questions

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Maybe I’ll get all four questions here. I guess what I’m asking the Minister is, how can a duty officer in Yellowknife have the information to be able to provide the regional services afterhours so they can get concrete and safe information.

Question 256-18(2): Procedure To Address Afterhours Issues At Small Airports
Oral questions

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

As I stated, that’s how the system is set up and if the Member is aware of any issues, I’d gladly sit down and discuss them with him. But as far as I know, the 1-800 is working to suffice the service at the airports.

Question 256-18(2): Procedure To Address Afterhours Issues At Small Airports
Oral questions

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

I thank the Minister for his answer. I guess the thing is the question comes back to, he’s saying it works. We’re hearing, myself, that there’s some challenges out there. So my question is again, how does somebody in Yellowknife not in the region, in Yellowknife able to answer questions afterhours and on weekends?

Question 256-18(2): Procedure To Address Afterhours Issues At Small Airports
Oral questions

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

But I’m not trying to be rude to the Member, but we do have the 1-800 number and that’s the mode of communication between the airports and the regional centre.

Question 256-18(2): Procedure To Address Afterhours Issues At Small Airports
Oral questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Oral Questions. Member for Nahendeh.

Question 256-18(2): Procedure To Address Afterhours Issues At Small Airports
Oral questions

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I thank the Minister for his answer. I’m not trying to be rude and I understand there’s a 1-800 number. What I’m trying to find out is does the regional offices provide this information to the duty officer so that he’s able to communicate this information after hours or on weekends or is there another system in place that contractor or the airlines have to contact the local contractor, which is sometime impossible to get a hold of him, especially in the smaller communities, especially on weekends when they’re out on their land doing stuff.

Can the Minister please explain to me and the people in my riding, what the process is? Is the information available, do they do reports, do they give that information to the duty officer so he is able when people phone the 1-800 number to get that information to him. Thank you.

Question 256-18(2): Procedure To Address Afterhours Issues At Small Airports
Oral questions

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

As I’ve said, we have the emergency, 24-7 number, we have our regional managers in place. If there’s any issues that are brought forward to the 24-7 number, it will work its way up the chain of command to the director, the regional superintendents who are also on constant contact with the regions, be it highways or the Department of Transportation or marine and once those issues are relayed to them, they will definitely be relayed to Yellowknife, and we would deal with it. I’m unaware of any particular issue in any of the regions related to the airports at this time and if the Member would gladly sit down and discuss them with me, we will deal with it.

Question 256-18(2): Procedure To Address Afterhours Issues At Small Airports
Oral questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Oral questions. Member for Yellowknife North.

Question 257-18(2):northwest Territories Power Corporation Interim Rate Application
Oral questions

Cory Vanthuyne

Cory Vanthuyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of the Power Corporation. We know now that the Public Utilities Board denied the Power Corporation’s rate application for a rate increase. I’d like to know, can the Minister tell us what does this mean for the operation costs of NTPC? Will the rate payers or the taxpayers of the territory be expected to subsidize the Corporation further?

Question 257-18(2):northwest Territories Power Corporation Interim Rate Application
Oral questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Minister responsible for NWT Power Corporation.

Question 257-18(2):northwest Territories Power Corporation Interim Rate Application
Oral questions

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, the Member is quite correct. The Public Utilities Board, PUB, did not approve the Northwest Territories Power Corporation’s interim rate application that was to have come into effect on June 1st. NTPC will reapply for an interim rate, the same 4.8 per cent increase when it submits it GRA later this month with an anticipated effective date of August 1st, 2016. So we’re not anticipating much loss or any loss of money in a significant amount.

Question 257-18(2):northwest Territories Power Corporation Interim Rate Application
Oral questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Oral questions. Member for Frame Lake.

Question 258-18(2):habitat Protection For Bathurst Caribou Herd
Oral questions

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Masi, Mr. Speaker. I apologize. I didn’t give my colleague, the Minister of Environment and Natural Resources any warning of this, but earlier this week, he tabled a response to oral questions where he gave notice about some caribou matters and I wanted to follow-up on some of that.

I wanted to ask the Minister, it appears to me that the burden of the management responses to the decline of the Bathurst caribou herd have fallen on resource harvesters. Can the Minister of Environment and Natural Resources tell us what concrete actions have been taken in terms of habitat protection on this side of the border? Habitat protection on this side of the border.

Question 258-18(2):habitat Protection For Bathurst Caribou Herd
Oral questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Minister of Environment and Natural Resources.

Question 258-18(2):habitat Protection For Bathurst Caribou Herd
Oral questions

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I guess I’d have to clarify the Member’s question, if it’s related to Boreal caribou or the Bathurst herd. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 258-18(2):habitat Protection For Bathurst Caribou Herd
Oral questions

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Yes, certainly, I’m talking about Bathurst caribou, specifically the Bathurst caribou herd and that’s the herd that was the subject of the response that the Minister tabled in the house earlier this week. So that’s what I’m asking is habitat protection on the NWT side of the border for the Bathurst caribou herd.

Question 258-18(2):habitat Protection For Bathurst Caribou Herd
Oral questions

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

As many people may not be well aware, the Bathurst herd has a working group that is working on a complete range plan and a recovery strategy for the herd of Bathurst.

Question 258-18(2):habitat Protection For Bathurst Caribou Herd
Oral questions

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

I appreciate the answer from the Minister. So out of that working group and range planning exercise that’s going on, can we actually expect that there’s going to be proposals to withdraw lands, protect habitat on this side of the border when it comes to the Bathurst caribou herd because that hasn’t happened so far to date and that the herd is in a bad situation. So are we going to see some specific land protection on this side of the border coming out of that process?

Question 258-18(2):habitat Protection For Bathurst Caribou Herd
Oral questions

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

It’s early days for the working group on the Bathurst and other Boreal caribou and other things as such, so I suspect that those conversations will be taking place and we’ll be bringing forward the commitments and ideas that these committees bring forward. I cannot tell the Member as of yet if we have any plans set aside for this type of thing.

Question 258-18(2):habitat Protection For Bathurst Caribou Herd
Oral questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Oral questions. Member for Frame Lake.

Question 258-18(2):habitat Protection For Bathurst Caribou Herd
Oral questions

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker and

I appreciate the response from the Minister. I guess the reason why I’m pursuing this in the House today is that the Nunavut Impact Review Board announced its recommendation recently that the Sabina Gold Project should not go ahead on the Nunavut side of the border because of its potential impact on the Bathurst caribou herd and its calving grounds.

Now, the position of the Government of the Northwest Territories in that proceeding and that process was that we did not want to see any development in the calving grounds of the Bathurst caribou herd.

So if we’re going to ask Nunavut to take action protecting habitat on their side of the border, what are we prepared to do on our side of the border with regard to protecting the Bathurst caribou herd, specifically habitat. Is there going to be some kind of land protection on this side of the border to help the herd? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 258-18(2):habitat Protection For Bathurst Caribou Herd
Oral questions

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

he Member is right. We have taken a position on the calving grounds on the Nunavut side of the border, but that is where the calving grounds are. On the Northwest Territories side is the range areas of the herds and many herds. Like I’ve said, we’re working with all the Aboriginal groups and stakeholders in this and across many departments and we’ll be developing something coming forward in the plan for the Bathurst and I will be bringing this forward at some time to this Assembly.

Question 258-18(2):habitat Protection For Bathurst Caribou Herd
Oral questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi.

Oral questions. Member for Hay River North.

Question 259-18(2):proposed Closure Of Court Library
Oral questions

R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just have some questions for the Minister of Justice. I’m just trying to wrap my head around the proposed closure of the law library.

---laughter.

Most lawyers in Yellowknife and the territory, I assume, are employed by the territorial government and they need access to legal materials. Do they already have, does the government already have a redundancy of all these materials that are in the library? Do the departments have full access to these materials already or are government lawyers accessing the law library and using these materials?

Question 259-18(2):proposed Closure Of Court Library
Oral questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Minister of Justice

Question 259-18(2):proposed Closure Of Court Library
Oral questions

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I mentioned yesterday, there is very little activity, of any kind at the library. There are very few people, lawyers or otherwise using that library. There has been a change in the way in which lawyers and other research the law and most of it is done online.

I believe that when the library was reduced from its very large size to its current size, that some of the historic books were given to Archives and some of the other books of interest to the local bar were simply given away to the lawyers. I don’t think the law library is used very much by the lawyers in the government, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Question 259-18(2):proposed Closure Of Court Library
Oral questions

R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

I know that there’s a sign-in sheet so when people come into the library, they sign in. I saw the Minister’s comments yesterday talking about how much it costs, how many books were checked out and I know for a fact that when people go to the law library, they don’t all sign in and I know that when people go there, they might look at books and they might not sign them out, they might use those materials there. My concern is that while there might be a reduced cost to the government here, this reduced access to materials is just going to result in the government having to supply these materials in another way. Provide a library full of materials to the GNWT lawyers, otherwise, the department is going to working without all the information it needs.

Has the Minister looked at what costs might rise for the government in terms of procuring those materials in relation to the potential cost savings of closing the library?

Question 259-18(2):proposed Closure Of Court Library
Oral questions

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, a godly number. In fact, most of the cases and many other analyses of cases are free online through CanLII or some of the other services that are provided to the public and also for lawyers. I have not received or done an analysis as to what costs we might incur should we be provided library-type services on a limited basis, but certainly there would be still a very, very large saving, in my belief, because the current costs which I referenced yesterday are very high, and if there's a very small kiosk or something along those lines provided with access through the internet certainly there would be a consider saving in any case.

Question 259-18(2):proposed Closure Of Court Library
Oral questions

R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

I'm not a lawyer; I've done a bit of legal research, though, and I know that I use lots of books, lots of physical books, because sometimes you can't find that material online and sometimes it's just-- it's inaccessible. It's difficult to go through a 500-page book on your computer. So I'm just concerned about the effect it's going to have on the quality of legal work being done, and I'm concerned about the effect on small practitioners because the Minister mentioned that these materials are expensive. Legal books are very expensive. Access to online legal resources can be very expensive. There's good sites like CanLII which is free, but there's other sites that aren't free and they have much more material and stuff as needed.

So I'm just really concerned that it's going to affect the sole practitioners. They're not going to be able to afford to practice here; they might head south. I know it's difficult to keep lawyers here anyway. I guess I could go on but it's more of a comment, I guess. Maybe the Minister can put some more thought into this. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 259-18(2):proposed Closure Of Court Library
Oral questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. I hear more of a comment. I'll allow the Minister to respond if he wishes.

Question 259-18(2):proposed Closure Of Court Library
Oral questions

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

I was one of those sole practitioners until six months ago and found that certainly buying hard cover books are expensive, but I did have my own fairly modest library. I would note, rather, that at one point the Government of the Northwest Territories had libraries in many of the communities which could be used by the lawyers. Hay River used to have a very extensive library, as did Inuvik. Those have all been closed down. I think that what's happened is the nature of legal research has changed, so the vast majority of it, as I understand, is now being done online. Yes, there are certainly services like CanLII which are free; other ones such as Westlaw you must pay for, but I think that's just a part of practising as a lawyer. There are going to be some costs. As I mentioned yesterday and again today, the number of lawyers using the library, the current library, appears to be very small. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 259-18(2):proposed Closure Of Court Library
Oral questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Item 8, written questions. Item 9, returns to written questions. Item 10, replies to Commissioner's opening address. Item 11, petitions. Item 12, reports of standing and special committees. Item 13, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 14, tabling of documents. Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment.

Tabled Document 74-18(2): Ekati, Diavik And Snap Lake Socio-Economic Agreements Implementation Report
Tabling of Documents

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the following two documents entitled "Northwest Territories Oil and Gas Annual Report 2015" and "Ekati, Diavik and Snap Lake Socio-economic Agreements Implementation Report." Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Tabled Document 74-18(2): Ekati, Diavik And Snap Lake Socio-Economic Agreements Implementation Report
Tabling of Documents

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Tabling of documents. Minister of Health and Social Services.

Tabled Document 75-18(2): Follow-Up Letter To Oral Question 138-18(2): Hay River Long-Term Care Beds
Tabling of Documents

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the following document entitled "Follow-up Letter to Oral Question 138-18(2): Hay River Long term Care Beds." Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Tabled Document 75-18(2): Follow-Up Letter To Oral Question 138-18(2): Hay River Long-Term Care Beds
Tabling of Documents

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Tabling of documents. Member for Yellowknife Centre.

Tabled Document 76-18(2): Change The Story: A Shared Framework For The Primary Prevention Of Violence Against Women And Their Children In Australia
Tabling of Documents

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I'm tabling a document entitled "Change the Story: A Shared Framework for the Primary Prevention of Violence against Women and their children in Australia." Mahsi.

Tabled Document 76-18(2): Change The Story: A Shared Framework For The Primary Prevention Of Violence Against Women And Their Children In Australia
Tabling of Documents

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Tabling of documents. Item 16, notices of motions. Member for Yellowknife Centre

Motion 21-18(2): Altering Hours Of Sitting For Monday, June 27, 2016
Notices of Motion

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I give notice that on Friday, June 24th, 2016 I will move the following motion. I move, seconded by the Honourable Member for Great Slave, that notwithstanding Rule 4(1) of the Rules of the Legislative Assembly of the Northwest Territories, on Monday, June 27th, 2016 this Assembly shall meet from 9:00 a.m. to 12:00 p.m. to transact its business. And further, notwithstanding Rule 6(1) of the Rules of the Legislative Assembly of the Northwest Territories on Monday, June 27th, 2016 at 12:00 p.m. the Assembly shall be interrupted by the Speaker, or if the Assembly is in Committee of the Whole by the Chair, who shall rise and report progress, the Speaker shall adjourn the Assembly and all remaining business shall stand over until the next sitting day. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Motion 21-18(2): Altering Hours Of Sitting For Monday, June 27, 2016
Notices of Motion

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Notices of motion. Item 16, Notices of motion for first reading of bills. Minister of Health and Social Services you now have the floor.

Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Vital Statistics Act
Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I give notice that on Friday, June 24th, 2016, I will move that Bill 5, An Act to Amend the Vital Statistics Act, be read for the first time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Vital Statistics Act
Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Notices of motion for first reading of bills. Minister of Justice.

Bill 6: Miscellaneous Statute Law Amendment Act, 2016
Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I give notice that on Friday, June 24th, 2016, I will move that Bill 6, Miscellaneous Statute Law Amendment Acts 2016, be read for the first time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Bill 6: Miscellaneous Statute Law Amendment Act, 2016
Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Notices of motion for first reading of bills. Minister of Transportation.

Bill 7: An Act To Amend The Revolving Funds Act
Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I give notice that on Friday, June 24th, 2016, I will move that Bill 7, An Act to Amend the Revolving Funds Act, be read for the first time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Bill 7: An Act To Amend The Revolving Funds Act
Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Notices of motion for first reading of bills. Minister of Justice.

Bill 8: An Act To Amend The Children's Law Act
Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I give notice that on Friday, June 24th, 2016, I will move that Bill 8, An Act to Amend the Children's Law Act, be read for the first time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Bill 8: An Act To Amend The Children's Law Act
Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Notices of motion for first reading of bills. Item 17, motions. Item 18, first reading of bills. Item 19, second reading of bills. Item 20, consideration in Committee of the Whole of bills and other matters. Tabled Document 50-18(2) with Member for Hay River North in the Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

I now call the Committee of the Whole to order. What is the wish of the Committee? Mr. Testart.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Committee would like to continue its consideration of Tabled Document 50-18(2): Main Estimates, 2016-2017, with the Department of Justice.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Testart. Does Committee agree?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

We will begin consideration after a short break. Thank you.

---SHORT RECESS

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

I now call Committee of the Whole back to order. Committee, we've agreed to consider Tabled Document 50-18(2), Main Estimates, 2016-2017, and we agreed to continue with the Department of Justice. Minister, would you like to bring witnesses into Chamber?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Yes, I would.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses into the Chamber. Minister, would you please introduce your witnesses?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. To my left is Kim Schofield, director of Finance, and to my right, Sylvia Haener, Deputy Minister of Justice.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. We're on the department totals on page 259. We will defer this until we've considered the rest of the department details. So if Committee wants to turn to page 260, justice revenue summary and information item. We can take comments or questions on that page, page 260. I'll give Committee a moment. Mr. O'Reilly.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Under the revenue section, regulatory revenue, access to information to a privacy fees, I see $4,000. I guess I've heard from some people that the fees may be an impediment or a barrier for individuals to request information, and it looks from this that we don’t actually raise a lot of revenue from this. Is this an item that the department is looking at perhaps even doing away with fees, given the low amount of revenues here in the interest of open government? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister Sebert.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, as the House will note there is a review of the ATIPP Act being conducted at this very time and that is one of the matters that is going to be considered.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Sebert. I'll just remind all Members and Ministers to conclude your statement with a thank you, so the audio techs know to switch the microphones. It makes it a little easier for people at home to follow. Mr. O'Reilly.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the response from the Minister. I'm wondering if there are other opportunities to perhaps raise more revenues within the Department of Justice. Mr. Chair, I'm wondering if I can get some comment from the Minister and his staff. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister Sebert.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, we are always looking at the possibility of raising additional revenue. In fact, in the category or the line item, court fees and fines, you can see that is up slightly. In the land title and legal registries fees, there's a considerable increase. That's driven by increasing the cost of prospectuses which are filed across the country and also in our jurisdiction. So we are always looking at ways to increase revenue. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Mr. O'Reilly.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. So when the department's constantly looking at ways to raise new revenues, do we look at how we compare to other jurisdictions? Is it more systematic and rigorous in terms of comparing our fees against other jurisdictions in Canada? And how often might that sort of exercise happen? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Yes, Mr. Chair. We do that. We always compare our fees not only in this department, in all departments with other jurisdictions so that we can remain competitive. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Mr. O'Reilly.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the response from the Minister. Are these fees then reviewed on an annual basis for comparability with other jurisdictions? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Yes, Mr. Chair. I understand that they are reviewed on an annual basis. Generally there are increases because we have to at least keep up with the cost of living. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Mr. O'Reilly.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I have no further questions.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Mr. Testart.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Under the Nunavut Exchange of Services, I note that fluctuated between 2014-15 and 2015-16, around $1 million and now it's back to a similar ratio. Could the Minister speak to that fluctuation and what those exchange of services are? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Testart. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, that represents an amount that is provided to us by the Government of Nunavut when we house inmates from that jurisdiction in our facilities. Perhaps there's a reduction in crime in Nunavut. I'm not certain, but it's dependent on the number of inmates that we house and that number has gone down. Fewer also have been sent here since the opening of a new facility in Iqaluit. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Mr. Testart.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's the same rationale for the federal exchange of services, the same type of revenue? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Testart. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, it's slightly different in that these federal inmates are very likely people that have lived here and under arrangements between the Federal Government and the Territorial Government certain inmates who are doing federal time are allowed to remain in the Northwest Territories. So I think that is what that figure represents. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Mr. Testart.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Under the Young Offenders Special Allowance, we've got more fluctuation there from $3,000 to 25 now down to $5,000. Can the Minister provide detail on what the special allowance is and why it's fluctuating? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Testart. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, I understand these are things like child tax credits and because the numbers of young offenders has fallen, at least those in custody, therefore the number has fallen to a rather insignificant amount. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Mr. Testart.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Nothing further, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Testart. Ms. Green.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, I wonder if the Minister could explain to us what the Witness Expense Assistance Recovery Program is and why it seems to have gone out of existence. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Ms. Green. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Yes, Mr. Chair. This had to do with the prosecution of criminal matters in which witnesses were required -- I understand this is now a federal responsibility, as is the conduct of prosecutions generally. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Ms. Green.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. My next question involves inmate recoveries. Could the Minister please explain what this means?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Ms. Green. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, I understand this is when inmates go out on work release and they are paid or more money comes in for their work than is actually due or owed to them, so we recover that small amount of $7,000 a year. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Ms. Green.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just for my further information, could the Minister describe a little bit about what kind of work the inmates do and what they get paid for doing it? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Ms. Green. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Yes, Mr. Chair, I think there's a wide range of work, perhaps clean-ups in communities of that type which they have the ability to do. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Ms. Green.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm wondering what they get paid for doing this kind of work? Is there a set rate? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Ms. Green. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, I don’t think we actually have information as to what they're paid. I understand that often they're working in construction sites, so I'm assuming they are paid at least minimum wage, but I don’t have that information before me. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Ms. Green.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. So I'm trying to understand then if an inmate is on a construction site and earns $12.50 an hour, then is there a threshold of what he can keep or he can keep all of it? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Ms. Green. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

I understand, Mr. Chair, that if for example they are earning $12.50 an hour or some amount like that that some of that actually does end up in their pocket, if I can put it that way, but some of it goes to room and board, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Ms. Green.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Like a posh hotel kind of thing. So I wonder if the Minister could share maybe some policy or guidance around how this works just so I can get a better understanding of it? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Ms. Green. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Yes, certainly we could provide that information. It's not before us today, but I think part of the point of this, Mr. Chair, is to reintegrate inmates into society and one of the ways of doing that is to get them back into the workforce. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Ms. Green.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Of course, that's an admirable goal. My last question, or maybe set of questions, in this area is about Contract Management Committee Provincial/Territorial Secretariat. It looks like this expense was here and it disappeared and now it's back. I'm wondering if I could get some detail on that please.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Ms. Green. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'd ask that Ms. Schofield be allowed respond to that.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Ms. Schofield.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Schofield

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Contract Management Secretariat is the RCMP Contract Management Committee. It is all jurisdictions, provincial and territorial jurisdictions comes together, and we have organized ourselves to have a Secretariat that assists us with managing the contract nationally. The secretariat is being housed in the Northwest Territories where we have a contracted employee and the revenue portion of this is all the other jurisdictions contributing their share to that. So it's essentially in and out of a revenue and an expenditure item. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Ms. Schofield. Ms. Green.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just one further question on that. So is $100,000 the entire budget for the secretariat or is that the NWT share? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Ms. Green. Minister Sebert.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Perhaps Ms. Schofield could answer that, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Ms. Schofield.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Schofield

Thank you, Mr. Chair. This is $100,000 of the revenue we received from the other jurisdictions. There's 11 jurisdictions that have contract with the RCMP, so this is -- our share would be roughly $11,000. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Ms. Schofield. Ms. Green.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you very much to the witnesses for answering those questions. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Ms. Green. Next I have Mr. Thompson.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Regarding inmate recovery, do we have a -- what's the legal liability issue of having these inmates working outside of the confinement of corrections? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, I understand that inmates who avail themselves of this work are on a temporary absence program, and I understand that liability is covered by the act. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Mr. Thompson.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Could the Minister elaborate on what act he's talking about? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, I understand that they would be covered under the Workers Compensation Legislation as all workers are and I also understand that there's a bit of an overlap of coverage with the Corrections Act.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister Sebert. Mr. Thompson.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. So covered by Workman's Compensation Act and the Corrections Act. Do they sign a waiver to say that they're waiving their rights? Can the Minister explain that? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, no, they do not sign a waiver. In fact the Workers Compensation Act does not allow such waivers. People simply cannot waive the conditions and protections that are afforded by the act. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Mr. Thompson.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Could the Minister then explain to us what he means by their kind of a leave of absence? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Perhaps Ms. Haener could assist. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Ms. Haener.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Haener

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Corrections Act allows for temporary absences to be provided to inmates to assist with their reintegration into communities and prepare for their release. So the temporary absence provisions under the Corrections Act are there seeing that there would be an ability to work with communities and employers in communities to employ or otherwise support an inmate through counselling, through volunteer activities and those kinds of activities outside of a correctional facility. If an inmate happens to be working while on a temporary absence, then obviously they're covered by the Workers Compensation provisions that are available to all workers in the Territories. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Ms. Haener. Mr. Thompson.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you very much. I'll have some other questions about that later on, but when it comes to Committee I'll have some concerns about that. The federal exchange of services I've seen a huge increase from the previous revised estimates. Could you explain this huge increase? It's almost double. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, while there may be an increase from last year, I note that it is not that different than that 2014-15 actuals of $1,302,000. I don’t have long-term what the cost has been, however. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Mr. Thompson.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I understand that the 2014-2015 actuals, the $1,302,000, but the Main Estimates for 2015-2016 was $755,000. So I see a real increase from 2015-16 to 2016-2017 of about 745. It's $200,000 approximately from the previous year, so can he explain why we have this huge fluctuation and huge increase? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Thompson.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, I understand there has been some catching up, but perhaps Ms. Schofield could assist in giving more detail. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Ms. Schofield.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Schofield

Thank you, Mr. Chair. In the planning and estimating of revenue for the Main Estimates for 2015-16, at times you want to be as conservative as you can be without overstating your revenue. In this fiscal year, we did a greater analysis of what has been happening historically. We have adjusted the calculations to determine what the estimated revenue would be, as well as we have seen an increase in federal repatriated offenders in our facility over the last couple of years. Annually, the per diem rates that we charge to the federal government for housing offenders changes as well. So it is a reflection of volume increase, per diem increase, as well as looking historically to what the actual revenues have been in repatriating our federal offenders. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Ms. Schofield. Mr. Thompson.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

I thank Ms. Schofield for that answer. I appreciate the historicals, which are actually more reflective of what is going on. At this point I have no specific questions for this page. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Thompson. No further questions for this page? We can move on to page 261. Active position summary, information item. I will give committee a moment. Mr. Testart.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The decrease in corrections positions, is that as a result of the reorganization of the North Slave correctional complex? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Testart. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, yes, that is correct. The amalgamation of the two facilities is the reason for most of that increase if not -- almost all of that decrease, rather.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Mr. Testart.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

June 16th, 2016

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Are there other positions affected outside of that facility? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Testart. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Yes. Mr. Chair, there are probation officer positions affected. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Mr. Testart.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Nothing further.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Testart. Any further comments or questions?

Seeing none, we will continue on to community justice and policing. The total activity page is 263. We will defer that until we discuss the detail on page 264 and 265. Do we have comments or questions on page 264? Ms. Green

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just want to confirm that this is the correct section in which to discuss the new day program and the integrated case management projects. Is that correct thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Ms. Green. Minister Sebert.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, I believe that program does come under this section.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Sebert. Ms. Green.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, could the Minister describe for us what is happening with the New Day Program, which is a pilot program at this point? What are the next steps for the New Day Program? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Ms. Green. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, the program is going to be evaluated at the end of the year. I believe a contract has been let with a organization that will evaluate the program. I believe we are hoping to get that report back by the ends of the year. Perhaps Ms. Haener can provide more detail. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Ms. Green.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I was kind of expecting to hear from Ms. Haener.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

I apologize. That one is on me. Ms. Haener.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Haener

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just to get more information on the New Day Program, the Minister indicated that it is undergoing an evaluation. That is part of the piloting process that is being engaged in currently with the current service delivery provider. As the Minister indicated, we intend to have that evaluation completed this year. The contract with the current service provider ends at the end of this calendar year. It is our objective to have the evaluation inform the development of any awarding of any future contracts for the delivery of the program as well as the ongoing design of the program. It is our intention to ensure that we continue to deliver this type of programming. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Ms. Haener. Ms. Green.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I recognize that it is not easy to evaluate a program like this because the change would be seen over the long- term, not necessarily within a matter of weeks or months. I am wondering on what basis this program will be evaluated? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Ms. Green. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, we have a contract with an organization that is very experienced in this area, but perhaps I can ask Ms. Haener to give more detail. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Ms. Haener.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Haener

Thank you, Mr. Chair. This program was actually created in follow-up to the Family Violence Action Plan. It was developed in a highly collaborative manner with NGOs and others involved. So there is a very strong, detailed description of how the program is to be delivered and that is included in the contract with the service provider. So that information along with the contract will be used to lay out the assessment process to ensure that the contractor is delivering the program -- or to assess whether the program is being delivered in line with what was envisioned in the contract and the program description. As well, the evaluation will try to look at whether or not the program, as described and outlined in the contract, is actually achieving the objectives that it was originally intended to. Is it achieving success in terms of making a change for the men who are partaking in the program? So that would involve several different approaches in evaluation, including speaking to participants, speaking to providers, and gathering information in those ways to base an assessment upon. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Ms. Haener. Ms. Green.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I appreciate that complete answer. I understand that the current service provider has now developed some expertise in delivering this program. I am wondering if there is any possibility, pending the satisfactory review, whether in fact there could be a seamless transition between the current contract and the next contract with the same service provider? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Ms. Green. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, that certainly would be a possibility. Of course it depends on the evaluation and also the competitive process. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Ms. Green.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think that running a program of this kind is a very particular task. Where this current service provider has amassed this expertise as well as the skilled staff, I certainly would encourage the department to have the information in hand about continuing the contract sooner rather than later so that they can make that decision without there being layoff notices and a shutdown of the program if in fact it looks like it is worth continuing. So that is a comment.

My next question is if the evaluation shows that the program should not be continued in that form, what is the next step? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Ms. Green. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, the government is committed of course to funding these types of organizations because it has been clearly identified that this is a very important area, if I could put it that way, in our society and we do need this help. However, it may be that the program has to be redesigned. We would find that out after the assessment of the program is done. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Ms. Green.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate that. My hope is that there is as little interruption in this program as possible. I also have some questions on integrated case management. Maybe I should let my other colleagues have a turn first. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Ms. Green. Mr. Thompson.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would like to just follow-up on Ms. Green's questioning in regards to this program. We are going to evaluate it. How long is the stoppage of offering this type of program or a similar program in this area? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, our clear objective is to not have any gap in providing this service. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Mr. Thompson.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I guess my question is, if you are evaluating now, is the evaluation going to be done before the program stops in December and that you will have another program ready to go March or January 1st? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, we have already started the evaluation and we are hoping to get that done in the fall. before the end of the current contract. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Mr. Thompson.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Are you making a commitment that this program or a similar program will be ready to go on January 1stso that there is no lapse? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, we would certainly hope that there would be no gaps, that there would be a seamless transition if I could put it that way. It does depend somewhat on the evaluation. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Mr. Thompson.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Is the department willing to continue working with the present organization that is running this program, if there is going to be a lack in offering the program -- getting the report done by December 31st, will you work with this organization to continue to run this program until such time as the new program or this is enhanced? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, we are hoping that the appraisal of the program, the evaluation of the program, will be completed by the mid-fall, perhaps October, November. If there are issues, we certainly are not going to abandon the field, as it were. We are committed to having this program or this type of program in force. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Mr. Thompson.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you. Am I understanding that if the report isn't done, this type of program or a similar program will be implemented until such time as the new program is started? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, the organization that we have contracted with has undertaken, as I understand it, to deliver the evaluation of the program by the end of fall. Certainly, we wish to have seamless delivery of this program or this type of program on an ongoing basis. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Mr. Thompson.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Maybe it's Friday and I'm not getting the message, here. Is the department willing to look at the potential of having to cover, in the short-term if this report isn't done, to offer this type of programming until such time as a new program is implemented? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, perhaps I could have Ms. Haener expand on my responses. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Ms. Haener.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Haener

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We expect to get the evaluation completed before the contract with the current service provider ends on December 31st, 2016. If the evaluation outcome is such that there is significant change that is needed, and in the interests of not having a gap in services, we would look at what options would be available to not have a gap, and that could include extending the current contract with the service provider, for example. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Ms. Haener. Mr. Thompson.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Ms. Haener, and I thank the Minister for his answers as well. So can the Minister commit to providing the Social Development Committee with an update on this, so we know what's going on in this area? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Certainly, Mr. Chair, we would be prepared to provide such an update. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Mr. Thompson.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. No further questions on this page, thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Nadli.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just wanted to ask a question to the Minister. Apart from the New Day Program initiative, are there any other programs for men that could bring about reformative measures in the spirit of wellness and healing? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Nadli. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, there is, of course, the Domestic Violence Treatment court, DVTO, which has been up and operating for several years in Yellowknife and, more lately, in Hay River. So there are other programs to assist men in these situations. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Mr. Nadli.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Minister has stated that, in terms of evaluating the merits of continuing the New Day Program, there could be an effort to redesign the program. Could the Minister explain, if indeed it goes down the path of redesigning the program, to continue, would it have a local community or else a territorial focus? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Nadli. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Certainly, once the evaluation is received, there may be some changing in the type of program that is required as a result of that evaluation. Obviously, it will have a northern or territorial emphasis, or emphases to it. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Mr. Nadli. There's nothing further from Mr. Nadli. Ms. Green.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'd like to talk a little bit about Integrated Case Management, another of the department's pilot projects. Could the Minister please tell us the status of the Integrated Case Management program? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Ms. Green. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I wonder if I could have Ms. Haener assist in responding to this question. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Ms. Haener.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Haener

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The most recent status reports that I actually just looked at the other day for Integrated Case Management show that there are 75 clients that have been referred to the Integrated Case Management unit. Those clients come from a number of different areas and are referred by anyone from front-line service providers at Stanton, RCMP, Yellowknife Health and Social Services, Legal Aid, Probation, Housing Corporation. They've been looking at and working with those individuals on a wide range of issues. Often, housing is an item that the clients need assistance on. It can also be assistance on items around other supports or accessing other programs offered by government and by others.

There is an evaluation process that has commenced already for Integrated Case Management. The first part of the process under the pilot was to establish measures that will -- and what data would be collected through the life of the pilot so that an appropriate evaluation could be undertaken. There are now sufficient clients that part of the next stage of evaluation would include interviewing those clients to get a sense of their experience and their perception of what's worked and what hasn't, and to also speak to service providers that have referred the individuals to the program to understand their experience with the pilot.

Those are the kinds of things that would be looked at in the next evaluation of the pilot. That is an interim evaluation. There would then be a final evaluation closer to the end of the pilot, because it does come to an end at the end of this fiscal year. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Ms. Haener. Ms. Green.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Could the Minister tell us, of those clients referred, how many are currently active in the program? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Ms. Green. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, I don't believe we have that level of detail before us. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Ms. Green.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. That's fine. If the Minister could supply that to me separately, that would be satisfactory. My question is whether this evaluation may prompt a continuation of this program, or is this program at the end stage? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Ms. Green. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, the program is at a sunset phase, if I can put it that way, at this current time. Certainly it could be considered, or some program like this could be considered, in the next business program. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Ms. Green.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. What would the Minister be looking for in terms of evaluation results to decide whether to continue this program? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Ms. Green. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Yes. Certainly, Mr. Chair, there does seem to be value in this type of program, and depending on how the evaluation of the pilot project moves along, we would be looking at this type of program or something very similar to it in the future with our business plans. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Ms. Green.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think that the idea for this program, which is to bring government departments together to respond to the complex needs of their clients where they may overlap in a number of different departments, is in itself very valuable because it means that the client service providers talk to one another about what they are providing. So I certainly am interested in hearing what the evaluation turns up. Can the Minister make a commitment about where and when he will share the results of the first stage of the evaluation? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Ms. Green. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Yes, Mr. Chair. Certainly we could come to committee and provide them with information at the appropriate time. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Ms. Green.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We would welcome the appearance of the Minster at the committee to discuss the evaluation in its first stage. Thank you for his answers.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Ms. Green. I have no further questions for this page. We will continue to page 265, community justice and policing, active positions. Comments or questions? Comments or questions on 265? I'm seeing none. I'll give committee a moment. Committee has no comments or questions. We will turn to page 263, the operations expenditure summary. Comments or questions on this page? Seeing no comments -- oh, Mr. Testart.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Under contract services, there is an increase this year. Could the Minister provide some detail on the additional expense and what we are contracting? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Testart. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, this is as a result of the transfer of wilderness camp funding from corrections. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Mr. Testart.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Nothing further.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Nothing further. Any further comments or questions from committee? Seeing none. I will call this page, community justice and policing, operations expenditure summary, total activity $5,040,000. Agreed?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

We will continue on with corrections. The operations expenditure summary is on page 267. We will defer that until we look at the detail. Beginning on page 268, corrections, grants, contributions and transfers. Comments or questions? Seeing none. Mr. O'Reilly.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. There is quite a big change, of course, in the way that we're -- or the funding for the youth facilities. Am I on the right page? Are we on 267?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

We are on page 268. Mr. Testart.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm just a little confused to see wilderness programming under Corrections as a contribution. I just asked a question about contract services under Community Justice and Policing and was told that that increase was wilderness camp funding. So if the Minister could just clarify? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Testart. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, I would ask to defer this question to Ms. Schofield. She can assist. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Ms. Schofield.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Schofield

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Not the entire amount of the wilderness camp funding was transferred, only the $225,000. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Ms. Schofield. Mr. Testart.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Why? Why is it in two different program areas, if it's one program? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Testart. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Perhaps, Mr. Chair, Ms. Schofield can assist with that also.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Ms. Schofield.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Schofield

Thank you, Mr. Chair. As part of the department's reductions, we identified $225,000 to come out of the wilderness camp program. However, committee had requested that we transfer that money -- keep that money and transfer it into Community Justice and Policing. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Ms. Schofield. Mr. Testart.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Thank you. I certainly appreciate the Department of Justice being responsive to the concerns of committee. Nothing further, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Testart. Would the Minster like to respond?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, we are always responsive. Thank you.

--- Laughter

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Do I have further comments or questions on page 268? Mr. Vanthuyne.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Cory Vanthuyne

Cory Vanthuyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chair. As this is corrections, I would like to ask about the North Slave Young Offenders facility. We know that it is being reorganized and significantly reduced. I wonder if the department can please provide detail on the department's long-term plan for the facility. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Vanthuyne. That might be a question for either page 269 or 267. Shall we move on to 269?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Mr. Vanthuyne.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Cory Vanthuyne

Cory Vanthuyne Yellowknife North

Under your guidance, Mr. Chair, I'll ask that the same question be asked on this page. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Vanthuyne. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, after a careful evaluation of the young offenders' facility, we had found that the numbers had been falling over the years, mainly as a result of the change in the Act in approximately 2003. So we've been looking at this for some time and have noticed a steady decline in the numbers; there didn't seem to be any jump. Certainly we are committed to keeping the facility here in Yellowknife. The whole facility, in the sense of that facility and the adult facility are being re-profiled as far as employment within the facility, but the young offenders' facility will remain with dedicated staff. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Nothing further from Mr. Vanthuyne. Any more comments or questions on page 269, active positions? Seeing none we will return to the total activity on page 267. Page 267, operations expenditure summary. Comments or questions from Committee? Mr. O'Reilly.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Under "program detail" there's a line here for youth facilities and there's some significant changes that have taken place and I'm wondering if the Minister and his staff can talk a little bit about that? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, the reprogramming of the youth facility will result in considerable savings, and that's the reason, as I understand it, for the reduction. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Mr. O'Reilly.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. My apologies, I understand that one of my colleagues has raised this issue already, but at the risk of going over the same ground, what's the long-term future of that facility? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, although the building is fairly old it's in excellent condition. I had the opportunity of doing a tour of the facility a couple of months ago. Obviously, there will be a continuing need to have that facility. We're not envisioning any change; there will always be a need for some facility such as that for youth. That facility seems to be in excellent shape and we're not contemplating any major changes. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Mr. O'Reilly.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Are we going to be making more effective use of the facility? Are there other purposes that it can be used for? I understand that the number of youth offenders in there is not that great, which is a good thing overall, but are we able to repurpose parts of it or use it for other purposes to get some efficiencies? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Yes, of course. For example, just as one change we've made, I designated it a couple of months ago as a facility in which women prisoners on remand could be held. This was a significant problem in Yellowknife. Perhaps Ms. Haener can expand on my answer, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Ms. Haener.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Haener

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The facility was constructed as a youth facility and we have an obligation to ensure that youth are held separately and apart from adults, and as well, to protect the privacy and the identity of those individuals that are held in that facility. So it is difficult to repurpose a facility of that kind. As the Minister indicated, we have taken one part of the facility and designated it as being available to house women on a temporary basis.

There may, in future, be opportunities to look at other things such as more links with communities and utilizing the staff and the resources at the facilities for those types of things. We're certainly engaged in that kind of activity in Fort Smith, for example, where there are considerable partnerships with community organizations to support programming both in and out of the men's and the women's facility there, and that may be something that could be explored in the future. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Ms. Haener. Mr. O'Reilly.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair, and I do appreciate the responses from the department to that, and that's it for me on this one. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Mr. Nadli.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, I've got a question and it's in regards to community linkages in terms of how the Department of Corrections is dealing with or trying to work with communities. So could the Minister explain what actions will be taken to enhance partnerships with communities and what does that mean? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Nadli. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, perhaps Ms. Haener could assist in the response. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Ms. Haener.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Haener

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We have, in the past, had community leaderships from a number of different communities across the territory expressing interest in working with Corrections on such things as reintegration of offenders back in to communities, and we often will engage directly with those communities to try to facilitate that wherever possible. This happens both between probation staff and staff within the correctional facility environment as well. There's also engagements with different organizations and communities to support things such as work programs and other things like that to support the rehabilitation of inmates in facilities, and to support programming and services for individuals under community supervision. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Ms. Haener. Mr. Nadli.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Could the deputy explain whether that initiative could be focused on specifically individuals that are being reintegrated, or is there an effort to look at perhaps people that are going back into the community and working with their families? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Perhaps, Mr. Chair, Ms. Haener could answer that.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Ms. Haener.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Haener

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Case managers that work with inmates in facilities currently, and for quite some time, always want to actively engage families when there's an interest and a desire on the part of families to support an inmate both during their time in a facility and in preparation for the release of that inmate. So if families have that interest and the inmates want to see that happen, because obviously the inmate has to agree to that as well, folks who work in our facilities would be very happy to hear from family members and work with them on those types of things. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Ms. Haener. Mr. Nadli.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The point of asking questions is just to try to get a sense whether there is a holistic effort in terms of trying to at least bring some reformative measures in terms of the spirit of healing and wellness with individuals that have been incarcerated.

Could the deputy explain whether Correction Services has referred to holistic healing and holistic service delivery in its vision, mission and values, and in what ways are its programs and activities holistic? Mahsi.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Nadli. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, perhaps Ms. Haener could expand on her last answer.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Ms. Haener.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Haener

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The corrections service has a number of different programs to support holistic healing and try to respect the cultural beliefs and values of individuals that are housed in our facilities. These range from healing circles, which are also done by probation as well, and smudging, on-the-land types of activities including participation in hunts. In Hay River there's a specific area on the facility grounds that is dedicated to traditional programming, as well as at the South Mackenzie Correctional Centre there is a traditionally-based program to support addictions treatment and readiness for addictions treatment. So there are a number of things like this that we have within the Corrections Service. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Ms. Haener. Mr. Nadli.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I thank the deputy for giving me that reply. What are the rules of elders and land-based programs then? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Nadli. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

As part of the, Mr. Chair, the holistic approach, I believe there are land-based and elders elements in the programs that have been discussed this afternoon by my deputy here. So that is part of this holistic approach to dealing with people that need these programs. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Mr. Nadli.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Chair. No further questions.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Nadli. I have no one further on my list for this page. Mr. Vanthuyne.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Cory Vanthuyne

Cory Vanthuyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm going to stick maybe along the theme of the programs but I'd like to ask the department first are they able to share with us how many individuals are currently in remand custody? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Vanthuyne. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Yes, Mr. Chair, I can share that information. There currently 100 people on remand. That's composed of 89 at NSCC, seven at the Fort Smith correctional centre for women, and four at the correctional centre for men in Fort Smith. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Mr. Vanthuyne.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Cory Vanthuyne

Cory Vanthuyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Can the department maybe describe for us what the average length of stay is for an individual in remand? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Vanthuyne. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, I'm not absolutely certain as to the average length of stay. I do know that the issue of remands across the country is an issue of quite a high per centage of inmates in our system, approximately 60 per cent are on remand, and I think that's consistent with statistics across Canada. I do know, however, that we have one of the best records of getting people to court. So, unlike in the south when there's very often a very long delay and people spending a long, long period of time on remand that doesn't tend to happen as much here. But, unfortunately, I do not have in front of me statistics as to what the average remand time is. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Mr. Vanthuyne.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Cory Vanthuyne

Cory Vanthuyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. While it's good to understand we have the best record, it certainly would be appreciated if information could be shared about what the average length of stay is, because there certainly have been complaints in the past that some of these stays have been exceptionally long. What steps is the department taking to actually get these people out of remand and into the court to have their day? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Vanthuyne. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, of course, court schedules and everything are far beyond our control; that's up to the judiciary. I know that the judiciary is very aware of the issue of people on remand; it's an issue everywhere. As I say, we have the best or one of the best records of getting people to court so that they will spend the shortest period of time on remand. So it's an issue the judiciary and we are alive to, and I think we are doing far better than most jurisdictions. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Mr. Vanthuyne.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Cory Vanthuyne

Cory Vanthuyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, one of the ongoing complaints is that-- and I will ask the department to please clarify this if, in fact, I am not correct. One of the complaints is that while individuals are in remand, and again, some are there for fairly lengthy periods, that the many good programs that were described earlier they do not have access to. So the question is: is there an opportunity to have access to healing and personal reform programs while in remand? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Vanthuyne. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Cory Vanthuyne

Cory Vanthuyne Yellowknife North

Mr. Chair, if I could assist with some statistics about the average length of custody; that information is now before me. For adult males the average remand time is apparently 53 days; adult females is 38 days; male youths is 53 days; and female youths is four days. So although there are a lot of people on remand, it would appear to me that the average remand length is quite short.

With respect to those on remand, we have attempted over the last few years to allow them to avail themselves to as many programs as is possible. Clearly, they cannot likely take all of the programs because some of those require leaving the facility. That is a change that has been made over the last few years. I know it was a complaint and a genuine concern years ago, but we have alleviated the problem to a large extent. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. There is nothing further from Mr. Vanthuyne. Seeing no further comments or questions I'll proceed to the call the page: Justice, corrections, operations expenditure summary, total activity $37,610,000. Agreed?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

We will now move on to Court Services. The total activities on page 271, so we will defer that until we discuss the detail on page 272. Page 272, court services, active positions. Comments or questions? Mr. O'Reilly.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Can the Minister or his staff describe the six positions that are being cut here? Talk a little bit about what those positions are and whether they're vacant or not? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Yes, Mr. Chair. The reductions are the court librarian position in Yellowknife, court officer in Inuvik, and--I'm sorry, four court positions in Inuvik, and manager of court registry also in Inuvik. I understand that the manager's position in Inuvik has been vacant as well as two of the court officer positions have been vacant for some period of time.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I don't have any further questions on this page.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly, and just a reminder to let our audio techs know when you are done speaking so they can switch over the mikes and we can proceed in a timely fashion. No further comments or questions on page 272. We'll turn to page 271 court services, operations expenditure summary. Mr. O'Reilly.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I believe this is the page where the court library for the Northwest Territories has been cut, including the staff person there. I wanted to start by asking the Minister how the cut of the court library meets the mandate of the 18thAssembly, especially in this regard. So mandate reads, or item 4.4.3 reads, "we will seek to improve access to justice in the Northwest Territories by expanding legal outreach programs and expanding public education on programs and services." I'm wondering if the Minister or his staff can explain how cutting the court library helps us achieve that part of our mandate? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister Sebert.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, legal aid has expanded its operations in the area of outreach. There is now an individual that goes out to many of the smaller communities dealing with sometimes issues that cannot be dealt with, either by private lawyers or by the legal aid clinic lawyers, so there is an effort from legal aid to have actual individuals go out and help people, particularly in the smaller communities where access to justice is a large problem, there being no resident lawyers in most of those communities.

With respect to the issue of the library, as I have mentioned earlier, the expense of continuing the library in view of the use was simply thought that this was not a good use of our resources. Some history on this is that originally, the library was set up in 1978, and there were libraries in many of the communities. The legal profession was far different in those days. There were no online services to be utilized.

As time went on, that changed in the early 1990s. The satellite libraries were closed down in Inuvik, Hay River, and Fort Smith. Not too much time after that, the library in the courthouse in Yellowknife was reduced in size to about a third of its former size. Most lawyers now use online services, and in fact, if you go to a lawyer's office now, large firm or small, you tend not to see a library that was once seen to be a great asset in a law firm.

The outreach from legal aid has been increased, and the use of the library, the traditional resource of lawyers has fallen precipitously over the last ten or 15 years. So therefore, to be most effective in having legal outreach, we think we should concentrate our assets in such areas of having more legal aid outreach and reduce costs in other areas, specifically the library. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Mr. O'Reilly.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the long explanation from the Minister. Probably don't agree with it, but I'd like to ask the Minister, he said in the House yesterday that cutting the court library would save $467,000. When we were looking at this in the business plan, I understood the only cost savings would be from cutting the staff position that's associated with the library. Can the Minister tell us how this figure of $467,000 was calculated?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Yes, Mr. Chair. The figure I gave was the figure, and referred to by Mr. O'Reilly was the cost of the library. Costs are made up not only of the librarian's salary, but publications, particularly ongoing subscription publications are incredibly expensive. Much of this information could be obtained online. So the cost savings will be twofold. The reduction in the position, but also, the cost, the very, very high cost of keeping up subscriptions.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

I understood, though, that there was an internal restatement within the department where a number of costs that were associated with a library have now been apportioned to the court registries. Can the Minister or his staff confirm that? I think the figure was about $220,000. Can the Minister or his staff confirm that, please?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, I'm certainly not aware of that. I do know that the costs of the library have been exceeding the budget costs by approximately that same amount, but I'm not aware of anything to do with the registries tying into the library.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

I guess what I'm trying to figure out here is the costs that have been quoted by the Minister in the House yesterday, $467,000. We've got a part of a staff person or staff PY. I understood that that would save us about $50,000, that the $417,000, that's really just publications, or does it actually include the costs that we would pay to rent that space within the building?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, the $50,000 was going to be the money we would save immediately or this year, but perhaps Ms. Schofield can assist. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Ms. Schofield.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Schofield

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The departmental budget for the library is $223,000 annually. The amount that was given on the $467,000 is the actual expenditures for the library program, for 2015-16, so it's actually overspending its appropriation by $244,000.

When the Minister is indicating that the government would save, it would save the entire amount of what is actually being spent. The $50,000 that's in the budget this year is just what would be saved this year. In June, there's publications that are currently being purchased up until now. There is costs related to the GNWT staff retention policy, so the $50,000 is what would be saved in the appropriation for 2016-17. The entire savings on the budget side would be $223,000. However, the total savings would be $467,000, as we would no longer be overexpending the appropriation. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Ms. Schofield. Mr. O'Reilly.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks Mr. Chair. That's helpful information to have. Anything above $50,000 that we're going to save with the staff person is being spent on publications? I'm trying to find out, I want to get a specific breakdown of this $467,000, and I don't seem to be getting it from the department?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Yes, Mr. Chair. Perhaps Ms. Schofield can assist.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Schofield

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Of the appropriation for the library, the $223,000, it's roughly, I don't have the exact amount with me, about $100,000 for the salary and benefits of the librarian.

With the savings for 2016-17 in the total library would only be $50,000 because there are expenditures that are happening in this fiscal year, and the total savings would not be achieved until the 2017-18 fiscal year. The remaining amount of that $223,000 is budgeted for materials and supplies which goes to the purchase of subscriptions, the purchase of additional volumes of books that go into the library, those type of items. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

That's helpful in understanding this. Is any portion of the $467,000 that the Minister has stated in this House, is any of that related to cost of this space rental?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Your time has expired, but I will allow Ms. Schofield to answer.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Schofield

No. No portion of that is related to the lease for the space.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Mr. Thompson.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you. I'll just build on Mr. O'Reilly's questions here so I can better understand what's being offered here. So if I understand correctly, we have $100,000 for salary, then we have $367,000 which includes materials and supplies and volumes of books. Is this correct?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Yes, Mr. Chair. That is correct. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Okay, I'm just a little bit confused on why we would have this over expenditure of $244,000 every year. Is this related to just the subscriptions?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Yes, Mr. Chair, it is mostly related to the subscriptions, which are incredibly expensive, and probably have gone up in price over the years. In fact, I'm sure they've gone up in price over the years.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

I thank the Minister for that answer. Just so I understand properly--somebody said something. Now I have to catch it. Subscriptions are involved. Is it electronic or hard copy?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

My understanding, Mr. Chair, is the vast majority of the cost is hard copies. What you find with the subscriptions is that loose-leaf service is most of them, so they have to be put in the books, but they come every quarter depending on changes in the law, and they are, I know from personal experience, incredibly expensive.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

If we have these subscriptions, what--are you not going to be using them anymore or is it not going to be out there? How is this going to be handled if we do not get these hard copies?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, a lot of this information can be obtained online, or alternatively, often these subscriptions relate to fairly obscure areas of law, and perhaps the practitioners in those areas can pay for their own books as lawyers who are outside of Yellowknife must.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Do you have to pay for these online subscriptions?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Certainly, Mr. Chair, there are online subscription services that you can pay for. Alternatively, however, there are such programs or--not programs, but facilities such as CanLII where you can obtain fairly up-to-date law free of charge.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

If we go online, will we be able to provide the same service to the lawyers and the public that is required if the subscriptions are not being used?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, clearly, if this reduction proceeds, there will not be the same availability of material at the central library in Yellowknife. However, we do feel in view of the very, very reduced usage that that is not that big a loss, if I can put it that way, because most lawyers can simply find this information online, whether it's through a paid organization such as Westlaw, or CanLII where it's provided free of charge.

We have found in view of the usage, which I've referred to several times, that this is just too great an expense to justify, continuing with the library. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

What will happen to all these resources if this library is being closed?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, I imagine we will do the same as we did when we reduced the size of the library. Some of the more valuable editions might come to archives or actually to our library here. There are some interesting aspects of the collection. I don't think we're going to be able to sell many of the other assets, and I think last time, they were simply given away to members of the local bar or whoever is interested, so that is the likely way we're going to dispose of these assets.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Can the Minister tell us if other regions or other provincial, territorial jurisdictions are getting rid of their libraries as well?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, I do know that large law firms are certainly getting rid of their collections. When I started in this business many years ago as a lowly articling student in Toronto, one of the assets of every firm was seen to be their library. They don't have libraries anymore simply because they're not needed.

I don't know the exact expenditures in other provincial jurisdictions, but I imagine they are likely for the same reasons reducing their expenditures in this area. They would be in the same position in that they have asked majority of users now would be online, and it's very hard to justify the incredible expense of a library.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I thank the Minister for his answer. I am not talking about large law firms. I am talking about provincial and territorial governments. My understanding is that if this does occur in our territory we will be the only one in Canada without a law library. Is that correct, Mr. Chair? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, I know that the judiciary will still have their library and I believe the Department of Justice does have a somewhat smaller library, legal division does. Some of the books -- I had the opportunity of looking at the main library here in town does have some books on law, so we will not have one central source of legal materials in the same way, but I think there will still be some access to those types of materials, either through the regular library archives, our library here, or the internal law libraries of the GNWT. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Mr. Thompson.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I thank the Minister for his answer. I'm just looking at some information here. Nunavut, their government library is 100 per cent funded. Yukon is 70 per cent. So it really confuses me why our two sister territories think it is important to have this law library. And I guess my other concern is the judicial library is not open to the public. So how are we going to have people given the opportunity to get information properly if it's all over the place? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Individuals, Mr. Chair, will still have the option of doing their own research online, as I mentioned yesterday when asked about this issue. Only about one per cent of those using the current library are members of the general public, that is to say not lawyers or judges. So it doesn't seem that the public is using this facility very much. I can't really speak to what's going on in other jurisdictions, but we simply do not believe that the huge cost that is incurred is worthwhile anymore. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Mr. Thompson.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. At this point in time, I am going to respectfully disagree with the Minister. I will end my questioning at this point in time. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Thompson. I have Mr. Testart.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have questions about the law library. I note that my colleagues commented on the fact that we'll be the only jurisdiction in Canada without this resource. We're also the only jurisdiction in Canada without a standalone courthouse that we own ourselves. These are both financial issues. The library being a recent one, but the courthouse being a longstanding one. I'm just wondering how does the Minister feel about that, about being Minister of Justice without a courthouse, and now without a law library, and a standalone in Canada. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Testart. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, the issue of a standalone courthouse in Yellowknife has been a long-standing issue. I believe this was looked at at some point in the not-too-distant past. The cost of establishing a new standalone courthouse was found to be excessive, so there's no plans in the immediate future to develop a new courthouse. Certainly, the judiciary and law profession probably would prefer a modern, standalone, separate courthouse. Should we go down that route, the cost would be very, very high and would take away from other capital projects that might be more worthy to a larger group of the population. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Mr. Testart.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate that it is a very costly project that doesn't have the same benefits of, say, a hospital or a road so being fiscally prudent on capital certainly. We're standing alone, I think, for the wrong reasons in some areas. I know the department sent a letter to the law society informing them of the change. Were other governments consulted in their library usage statistics because I wonder if we are alone in this decline? My sense would be that other jurisdictions, if the Minister is correct that major law firms are shutting their legal libraries down, perhaps it is true that other government-funded libraries have low usage, but are maintained for completely different reasons and that's a service to the public. Were other governments consulted on their law libraries? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Testart. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, I don’t believe we consulted with other governments certainly respecting their libraries. We simply looked at our own cost structure here where there were so few people using it in view of the cost that it simply did not seem to be worthwhile. We only have a certain amount of resources for outreach, and as I mentioned earlier, we are increasing the outreach capabilities of the Legal Services Commission, and it simply comes down to a matter of cost balance against effect. Is the result good enough to justify this $467,000 cost? For the very few members of the public who actually use a library, we don’t think so. We also are of a view that the particularly valuable aspects of the collection will not be lost but would either go to archives, perhaps to this library here. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Mr. Testart.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate that a reduction exercise was the direction of this Government and that the department is working with that challenge. I'll take the Minister on his word that there's less value in maintaining something this expensive. I'm interested about the new Legal Resource Centre. I heard the word "kiosk" earlier. The other day I asked would this be a, you know, room in the basement. What are we talking about with this resource centre? I really hope the department can provide further details with the staff here. Perhaps they can give us a sense of what this resource centre is going to look like. I'm fine with rolling out a new program that's more efficient and less costly, but let's make sure it's substantial and not slapped together. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Testart. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

The portions of the building are being reconfigured. We do have some ideas for the space that the library is currently in. I'm not certain because we haven't really determined where this resource centre might be located. In the building is there issues of security and so on. But we are certainly looking at possibilities. Again, the building is being reconfigured to some degree. We have ideas for the space on the first floor. Whether the resource centre will be on that floor or perhaps the second floor is yet to be determined. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Mr. Testart.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. So we're cutting the library to save costs, but this new resource centre's going to cost money as well. Is there any idea of how much this resource centre is going to cost in terms of online subscriptions, in terms of computer hardware, and other equipment that'll be needed for it? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Testart. Minister Sebert.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, I wonder if Ms. Haener might be able to assist on this question. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Haener.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Haener

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We are very aware of the need to increase access to justice, and as part of that we have had on the books for a couple years now a project involving the reconfiguration of the main floor of the courthouse, and the work there will encompass a number of different aspects to the provision of services including making sure that it is more disability accessible because the current ramp arrangement is not appropriate and to code for disability access. As well, one of the things that we have been considering, because we haven't completely finalized what this is going to look like and what shape the renovations would take, is locating the Legal Aid outreach service on the main floor of the courthouse so that the Legal Aid outreach lawyer is present in the building and accessible to more individuals and more visible. One of the thoughts is that that is an area where people, public included, would go to seek advice and to access information and services. So that is one of the things being considered, but we have not completely finalized what shape this will take. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Ms. Haener. Mr. Testart.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate that, and you know that goes back to the many resources of expended reconfiguring that building and we still have some -- we always seem to be correcting deficiencies. I wonder if the Minister recalls the time when he was a scrappy young lawyer starting his practice in the Northwest Territories. For young practitioners who are coming up to start in perhaps the private bar, availing themselves to free resources certainly is a benefit to their practices. Is that a concern for the department at all? Perhaps the Minister could reflect on the start of his career? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Testart. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, I didn't think I'd be asked about ancient times, but when I was starting out I did have my own library and built it over the years and in fact still have it because the books were incredibly expensive and it hurts to throw them out though they have become increasingly out-dated. So in the last few years of my practice, I had one or two books, Criminal Code Watts, one or two others and that was about it. The rest of the research was done online, so I don’t think that is very different from most of the lawyers, younger lawyers, coming out now. I think actually a lot of them wouldn’t even have space for a library because they tend to operate without an office. That simply seems to be the modern model. Yes, there will be some additional costs, but there are always costs in setting up any business, and I don’t see that the costs would be excessive to have a very limited library and then perhaps access online resources. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Mr. Testart's time was expired. Mr. O'Reilly who is on my list.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I guess I just want to start with I'm glad we're talking about the cost of justice here and increasing access to justice. What role does the Minister see the court library playing in public education? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, in view of the very little usage by the general public, it seems that the public isn't that interested in using this resource either. To be fair also, that unlike other libraries that resource is only open for a fairly limited time, but even during the hours of operation, I think only about one per cent of the people using it were members of the general public. So as I say, these types of resources, legal research can be done online cheaply and often at no cost. So that's how envision legal education in the future. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Mr. O'Reilly.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I think I'm going to disagree with the Minister on that, but I wanted to move towards talking about how the department consulted with some of those user groups of the library. In fact, some of those user groups actually contributed towards the cost of the library over a number of years. As I understand the law society contributed $28,000 in 2014-15, 2015-16 it was about $20,000. The Law Foundation contributed $50,000 in 2014-15, 2015-16 the same amount. Can the Minister tell me what consultation was done with the Law Society of the NWT before this decision was taken as they're putting money on the table or they were putting money on the table as part of this? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, the Law Society of the Northwest Territories and the NWT Law Foundation over the years have contributed towards the financial contribution of the operation of the library. The total amount contributed, however, has fallen. In 2007-08 it was around $120,000 and it's fallen currently to about $50,000. So it would appear that the contributions have fallen even while our costs have risen. So as a percentage of the costs, and I don't have the figures in front of me, obviously the contributions have fallen to be about 11 per cent from probably a much higher percentage in 2007-08. Although there has been a contribution by the Law Society and NWT Law Foundation, those contributions have fallen. This issue came up approximately 10 years ago when the library was reduced. There was some opposition to that reduction. Somewhat informally, I did speak to many of my fellow practitioners and most of them, particularly the younger ones, hardly knew where the library was. When the budget came out, a letter was sent to the law society. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Mr. O'Reilly.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Mr. Chair, I'm glad to hear that a letter was sent to the Law Society when the Main Estimates were tabled. Was there any advance consultation with the Law Society as one of the funding partners for the library? Thanks, Mr. Chair. Oh, and if so, what was that? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, due to the nature of the budgetary process, I didn't feel as if I could go to them in advance, because that would be an indication of what we were doing in our budget. As I say, somewhat informally over the years I have spoken to other lawyers. I was the treasurer of the Law Society for a couple of years, and in that period of time I could see that we started reducing our contribution to the library. So I couldn't really, in detail, speak to the Law Society about this proposed change in advance of the budget coming out. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Noting the clock, I will now stand and report progress. Mr. O'Reilly, you may continue your law library questions when we resume Committee of the Whole next. Thank you to the Minister and his witnesses. Will the Sergeant-at-Arms please escort the witnesses from the Chamber.

Report of the Committee of the Whole
Report of Committee of the Whole

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

May I have the report? Member for Hay River North.

Report of the Committee of the Whole
Report of Committee of the Whole

R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Mr. Speaker, your committee has been considering Tabled Document 50-18(2): Main Estimates 2016-2017 and would like to report progress. Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of the Committee of the Whole be concurred with. Thank you.

Report of the Committee of the Whole
Report of Committee of the Whole

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Do I have a seconder? Member for Frame Lake. Motion is in order. To the motion. Question's been called. All those in favour? All those opposed?

---Carried

Report of the Committee of the Whole
Report of Committee of the Whole

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Item 23, third reading of bills. Mr. Clerk, Orders of the day.

Orders of the Day
Orders of the Day

Deputy Clerk Of The House (Mr. Schauerte)

Orders of the day for Thursday, June 23, 2016, at 1:30 p.m.:

1. Prayer

2. Ministers’ Statements

3. Members’ Statements

4. Returns to Oral Questions

5. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

6. Acknowledgements

7. Oral Questions

8. Written Questions

9. Returns to Written Questions

10. Replies to Commissioner’s Opening Address

11. Petitions

12. Reports of Standing and Special Committees

13. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills

14. Tabling of Documents

15. Notices of Motion

16. Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills

17. Motions

18. First Reading of Bills

19. Second Reading of Bills

20. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

-Tabled Document 50-18(2): Main Estimates 2016-2017

21. Report of Committee of the Whole

22. Third Reading of Bills

23. Orders of the Day

Orders of the Day
Orders of the Day

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi, Mr. Clerk. This House adjourns until Thursday, June 23, 2016, at 1:30 p.m.

---ADJOURNMENT

The House adjourned at 2:03 p.m.