Thank you, Mr. Chair. Committee would like to consider Tabled Document 322-18(3), Main Estimates, 2019-2020, with the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs and Department of Executive and Indigenous Affairs. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Testart. Does committee agree?

Thank you, committee. We will consider the document after a brief recess.

---SHORT RECESS

I will now call Committee of the Whole back to order. Committee, we have agreed to consider Tabled Document 322-18(3), Main Estimates 2019-2020, beginning with the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs. I will turn to the Minister for opening remarks. Minister Moses.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am pleased to present the 2019-2020 Main Estimates for the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs. Overall, the department's main estimates propose an increase of $3,236,000 from the 2018-2019 Main Estimates, which is a 3 percent increase.

The 2019-2020 Main Estimates reflect:

• an increase of $111,000 to support the need for increased grants in lieu of property taxes payments to community governments; and
• an increase of $1,400,000 for community governments to support their operational needs and the delivery of water and sewer services, which continues our support to community governments, which has seen an increased investment of more than $6.7 million during the life of the 18^th Legislative Assembly.

Municipal and Community Affairs will continue to work with key stakeholders such as the NWT Association of Communities on the development of a plan that will help to address the municipal funding gap. As part of this plan, we are reminded that this Assembly has also previously approved an annual increase to Community Public Infrastructure Funding of $1.8 million to provide enhanced support for community infrastructure priorities.

Additionally, the 2019-2020 Main Estimates also reflect:

• an increase of $350,000 to support non-government organizations to stabilize operations or develop their capacity to manage programs and services;
• an increase of $1,348,000 to implement the NWT's 911 Service;
• an increase of $334,000 to ensure efficient delivery of the Investing in Canada Infrastructure Plan; and
• an increase of $389,000 to support the Deline Self-Government Agreement.

The department's proposed spending in 2019-2020 continues to support the priorities of the 18^th Legislative Assembly.

Under the community wellness and safety priority, Municipal and Community Affairs has refined its implementation plan for a territorial 911 service. Our investment in this budget will result in this service coming online by the summer of 2019.

Through an increase in funding for community governments, we are continuing to provide support for municipal core needs. This funding advances the governance priority by helping to build a stronger relationship with community governments.

In support of the cost of living priority area, we will continue to support community governments as they apply for and take advantage of the suite of federal infrastructure funding programs available to them.

That concludes my opening remarks, Mr. Chair. I would be happy to answer Members' questions. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. On my left, I have Eleanor Young, deputy minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, and on my immediate right is Gary Schauerte, who is the director of corporate affairs. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister. Municipal and Community Affairs begins on page 323 of the budget document. The departmental total is on page 327, but, as is our usual practice, we will defer consideration of the total until after we consider each activity. There are seven activities, followed by two information items. The first activity, community governance, begins on page 330. Does committee have comments or questions on page 330? Mr. Thompson.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. My first question is: is the department still focusing its efforts on a pilot project with Fort Providence, Tulita, and Ulukhaktok, and how is the work proceeding? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, we are looking at continuing to do that work. For maybe further detail, I will go to my deputy minister for where we are in that area, Ms. Young, please. Thank you.

Thank you. Ms. Young.

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. As I have previously mentioned, I am concerned about transferring assets to communities without them also getting the necessary funds for operation and maintenance. What is the department doing about this process? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We are doing an asset management plan with each of the communities. It is something that we have been focusing on moving forward. It is not only the concerns of the communities that the Member has brought up, but it is something that we will have to have discussions with administration, as well as mayor and council, leadership, obviously, making sure that we are both working together to address the issue. We are going through an assets management plan for our communities and assure the Member that we are going to work with that. There is a responsibility on both sides. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. My next question: how is the department planning to secure any additional funds needed for surveys or land assessment? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Ms. Young.

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Are the funds needed associated with these initiatives being factored into the calculations of the municipal funding gap? Thank you.

Thank you. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think we just had a little bit of a discussion, as well as the Minister's statement that I just put out today, which the Member was aware of. This is going to be a discussion that we're going to have with the NWT Association of Communities this weekend, and also look in terms of how do we address these, some of the shortfalls, but also what our core needs are for the communities. I know I've had these discussions with committee previously, and it's going to be something that we will have a discussion about and focus on this weekend, in a very honest and open discussion with our other elected officials. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I understand that there is the Minister's statement and that, but these are some of the questions that have been asked of me by my constituents to ask, so I'm just making sure I'm going through my list here. I thank the Minister for that. In correspondence with the Standing Committee on Government Operations, the department noted that Municipal and Community Affairs will need to identify a long-term process to transfer assets and lands. What is involved in this work and what is the time frame for completion? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Ms. Young.

Thank you, Ms. Young. Mr. Thompson.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. What other progress has the department made with respect to addressing the issue of derelict properties in the communities? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister Moses.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. That's always been an ongoing issue, I think, in every community, and that's something that we need to work with our local governments on addressing. Obviously, we want to play a strong role in that. Any administration or municipal government that does feel that they need support and work on our behalf, I encourage them to come and speak with us to address those needs in terms of derelict properties and areas in their communities. I know, since I've been in the position, we have made some adjustments for some small communities to address these needs. Like I said, I encourage leadership and membership to contact our office, and we'd be more than willing and happy to work with them. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister Moses. Mr. Thompson.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Hopefully this will be my last question for this topic. In regard to community planning, am I correct in understanding that community planning has a responsibility for assisting communities with civic addressing? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Ms. Young.

Thank you, Ms. Young. Mr. Thompson.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I've heard that civic addressing is not necessary for the implementation of 911, but I still think it's important to be included in the 911 implementation plan, for those municipalities that want it. Are you guys working with them or encouraging them to include this? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister Moses.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, this is something that we are working on. Obviously, we want to make sure that anyone who accesses 911, we have their address in place. We are working with communities currently to address these needs. As 911 is, hopefully, going to come through, we are making sure that our residents are more than, I wouldn't say happy, but that their concerns will be met. That is something that we are working on right now, yes. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Moses. Next on the list, we have Mr. Simpson.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I see this is the governance section. Is this where I would find funds that would support a community such as a hamlet or a municipality in their negotiation of an IBA? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Simpson. Minister Moses.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We provide different services. In terms of IBAs, that's more associated with the Executive, the EIA. We provide different services, so that wouldn't fall under this one. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister Moses. Mr. Simpson.

Thank you. So I guess municipalities and hamlets aren't eligible to enter into an IBA? Is that what I'm understanding? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Simpson. Minister Moses.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Not through our department. That would be more through the Executive and Indigenous, with Indigenous government services. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister Moses. Mr. Simpson.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. So this department wouldn't advise a community that they could enter into an IBA if there was a large industrial project within or near the boundaries of the community. Is that correct? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Simpson. Minister Moses.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. That is correct. We do approve community plans, and in the community plans, there is a Section 35 that focuses on consultation, so that would be where it would focus. In terms of any IBAs or anything there would be consultation about, we do work with municipalities on their community plans. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister Moses. Mr. Simpson.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just wanted to get all of that on the record. There has been some confusion about who can enter into IBAs and who is advising who to do what. I wanted to clear that up. Nothing further. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Simpson. Next on the list, we have Mr. Testart.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Under the community planning function, the department provides support and advice to communities on their community plans and community planning. Previously, the department also managed the public land and would review any applications for access to that land. Now, that is a function of the Department of Lands.

We have heard concerns over a number of years that communities aren't able to access land for development reasons. Obviously, that is a live issue here in the city of Yellowknife, where my constituency is located. I have heard concerns from colleagues in other communities such as Hay River. What is the department doing to support communities in accessing more land for development opportunities? Thank you.

Thank you. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think there are a couple of department that work in this area. We would definitely work with the municipality to identify what their needs are. As they develop their community plans, we would work on supporting them. As previously mentioned, there is a Section 35. Depending on which community is putting their community plans forward, there might be some consultation that would be needed to take in with our Indigenous partners, Indigenous governments and also working with the Department of Lands to address the needs moving forward. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Mr. Testart.

If a community came forward with a request just to access large parcels of land for the sake of their own, internal development, what would be the advice of the department? Thank you.

Thank you. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Obviously, we are going to be working with all of the municipalities that want to come forward with a community plan. We would facilitate the discussions with all stakeholders and ensure that the plans that are being proposed, whether there needs to be any Section 35 consultations or anything further that needs to be done, that we would be more than willing to facilitate those discussions and approve them. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Mr. Testart.

Thank you. Under what circumstances are community plans rejected by the department? Thank you.

Thank you. Ms. Young.

Thank you. Mr. Testart.

Would it be fair to say that the department's role is more to provide compliance with legislation than to actually make decisions over the contents of a community plan. Thank you.

Thank you. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes. We would comply with legislation. Just to let the Member and Members know that, this weekend, we will be meeting with the NWT Association and communities and leaders and ensure that some of this information and discussion will be had over the weekend. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Testart.

Thank you. That is fine. I appreciate that the Minister has shared that information with the House. I have met with several municipal officials from across the territory just this week. It is great that we have that opportunity to discuss these issues. My concern is the availability of land to develop for economic purposes. It is a crucial component if we are going to diversify the economy and expand economic opportunities. Local governments are often in the best position to make those decisions.

Now, I know this isn't the Department of Lands, so there is a limit to the range of these questions. Are there any practical difficulties, from the department's perspective, within the legislative framework it is responsible for and its knowledge of community governance operations on the ground that would prevent communities from being transferred GNWT-owned lands and allowing them to make the decisions around them without the need for piecemeal transfers as approved by the GNWT? Thank you.

Thank you. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. As I mentioned, we would facilitate a discussion. That is really up to the communities, in terms of when they work on their community plans. We would facilitate it, and we would work with the other departments that are associated to address those concerns. Obviously, that is something that we would like to work on in terms of addressing the economic development in our communities. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Mr. Testart.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think of this kind of proposal somewhat as a New Deal "part 2," where we devolve further responsibility to our municipalities and allow them to make more decisions around what decisions they actually want to make, that they think are going to grow their communities. My question was more: does the Minister believe there is any impediment to our communities taking on that responsibility? Granted, not everyone is on the same level, but at least in the larger centres or the centres that are dealing with chronic land-management issues that have been brought to the floor of this House before, if a political decision was made to transfer all that land, would the department be in a position to support municipalities in dealing with that new reality, and how would they do that? Thank you.

Thank you. Minister Moses.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. As I mentioned, our department will be more than welcome to facilitate a discussion in that area. A New Deal "part 2" sounds interesting. First of all, the first new deal put more responsibility on our municipalities. We still need to continue to work and evaluate how that is going. In terms of the second part of the question and how we are focusing on that, through you, Mr. Chair, I will ask my deputy minister to get into a little bit more detail.

Thank you. Ms. Young.

Thank you. Mr. Testart.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. That was an excellent response, and I am very satisfied with that. This is a big issue for me. Many people have told me that they share a similar perspective. If we are going to again diversify the economy, it is not just going to be with funding pots through ITI. It is going to be with big, transformative change like that. It is good to know that the department is there, standing beside our communities, behind our communities, and would help them make such a transition. If the Minister of Lands is listening, I will have questions around this topic when we get to that department. Nothing further. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Testart. Seeing no one further on my list, I will call this activity. Municipal and Community Affairs, community governance, operations expenditure summary, $2,016,000. Does committee agree?

Thank you, committee. The next activity is on pages 334 to 337, community operations. Comments or questions? Mr. Thompson.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The department business plans noted that a complete asset management strategy for the NWT community governments has been approved by Canada for use under the gas tax agreement to guide the distribution of targeted capital business building funds. Has MACA completed its work with the first intake of the 11 community governments? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Ms. Young.

Thank you. Minister Moses.

Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. I just wanted to inform the Member and all Members that we are strongly advocating for this asset management in all the communities, and all the other programs that we do provide. This weekend, I think, is going to be an opportunity to provide the services that MACA delivers to our partners. I just wanted to ensure the Member that we are on top of this and that it is something that is, I think, going to help us move forward in terms of the work and the support that we provide to our municipal governments. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. With the 11 for the first intake, what communities are being engaged with the second intake? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. At this moment, we don't have the detail for all the communities, but we can get that information, and we will share it with the Member to let him know the work that is going on, being undertaken, with asset management. We will share that information with the Member as soon as we get it. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Being an MLA for designated authorities, four of them anyway, what is the status with respect to designated authorities with this program or with this strategy? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Ms. Young.

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The designated authorities, have we started approaching them? Because this is actually a very important program. I mean it helps them monitor equipment, facilities, and that, so have we been approaching them to encourage them to be part of this? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Obviously, all of our communities in the Northwest Territories, we have been approaching. The designated authorities are one of them. With our gas tax, we have been focused on making sure that they have the same opportunities as tax-based communities and municipalities. So, obviously, we are reaching out to all of our 33 communities, and this is something, concerns from the Member but probably some concerns from our leadership, that we will be having discussions with this weekend. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Again, when we talk about gas tax, there are challenges, and, you know, we have had conversations about this, where communities' the funding has been withheld there. Can the Minister update us with the designated authorities, what is the status, whether it is today or a follow-up? I know we have had a conversation, but can we get that follow-up to tell us where we are? It is just not designated authorities, but any communities out there that are being impacted by this. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, I will commit to doing a follow-up on the gas tax. I have had meetings with the Member on communities, and not just in particular in his region but communities across the NWT, and, like I said, if it comes up this weekend, we will have those discussions. I know there has to be more than just us being at the table; right? We need to have reliable staff working at the municipal governments, Indigenous governments, with the designated authorities, to address some of these issues, but I think that is something that needs to be addressed because, if we are not going to be able to flow that funding out, then the needs of the communities might not be met. Hopefully, we will have those discussions this weekend with the elected leaders across the Northwest Territories. We will follow up with the Member and give them an update. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

Thank you. I am assuming this is where we would be talking about the Auditor General's report and from previous. So MACA agreed with the number of recommendations and made commitments to do a number of things, including reviewing and improving contribution agreements by April 2017 and consult with INAC. What has the department done to implement the OAG's findings with respect to designated authorities in these contribution agreements? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Ms. Young.

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I apologize if my notes said "2017." That is what I had down in my notes, so I apologize, and I thank the department. That is my last questions for this section. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Mr. O'Reilly.